Increasing number of players using 3rd party tools

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Originally Posted by Tlachtga

its a simple trigger in ACT itself, not Cactbot.

and i disagree its not difficult because EU is full of people with really poor English and the game supports only French and German (i don't blame SE for this too much, its really not feasible to get in a full translation for every language, but they could at least do Spanish imo)

to native english speakers, scanning a sentence for two words and reacting in 5s isn't hard, but it might not be so for people where English is their 3rd or 4th language.

i don't really care because my group unanimously decided to do TEA instead of UCOB after our UWU clear. But considering only 2 of my group (including myself) are native english speakers, i wouldn't fault anyone of them for using triggers for nael quotes if we ever go for UCOB. its a bad mechanic. it should've been a visual tell, not something that requires you to read.

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I want Dutch as well, and Italian, and Swedish.. and Finnish.. oh, Danish please, Icelandic as well.. and Austrian. Add Greek and Turkish as well.. and Polish. And indeed Spanish as well. Let's be fair now, right?

It does feel a little bit of a slippery slope to me. Granted, no, I'm not a raider, but it does feel odd when groups coming to the game basically have people custom creating mods for them on day 1 while native players of the game have been doing perfectly fine with nothing more than a damage parser for years. Are the newcomers less skilled? I doubt it. Are the fights in FF14 harder? Presumably not. But it really does speak to the experience itself just being different and that the newcomers are essentially forcing their way onto 14. While it's fine for them individually, you just know it's going to lead to everyone and their dog doing it, necessary or not. And I guess I find it funny that some of the most hardcore people in wanting the game to not only stay difficult but get more difficult, those who are adamant in wanting others to just git gud, are just shrugging their shoulders at what is in some way training wheels.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I kind of understand using plugins for communication heavy phases like gaols or tenstrike, particularly if you have mutes or people with accessibility issues.

Nael quotes on the other hand are imo a huge part of the intended design of those phases, and they aren't even that difficult to read since you're essentially just doing pattern recognition for single words. Using cactbot to call nael quotes is 100% a crutch.

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The general consensus with Nael queues is they aren't well implemented. Having to glance at your chat box and decipher a phase within less than five seconds just isn't fun nor challenging. Most have said it the queues were a large chat bubble above Nael herself or at the top of your screen, they wouldn't be as bothered by the mechanic. RP queues is one of the few mechanics practically everyone said "Nope" and installed triggers. Even those who didn't like them otherwise. Keep in mind, the original phases were far more cryptic but were changed at the start of Shadowbringers largely because of how much disdain the community had towards the mechanic.

As for Gaols. Layla Bell summed it up better. "If you don't want people to use triggers. Design your mechanic better." Gaols give little time to react both in figuring out who has it, getting to your spot and then dealing with the server tick itself. The Bard in my first UWU group actually got knocked back in the gaol itself because she somehow lagged at the right moment. All in all, while Gaols isn't as annoying as Nael queues, it's too finnicky and doesn't give enough react time for a lot of people.

All in all though, you don't hear much complaints from the raid scene about add ons or plug-ins because most simply don't care enough about what other players do. I certainly don't. Frankly, if someone wants to use Cactbot in PF and it helps them clear, that only benefits me since my only concern is clearing the fight. If you literally can't do a fight without Cactbot, it says more about you than anyone else. But I don't really care one way or another. I wouldn't use it myself for no other reason than I dislike the constant ping and reminder for every mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

Perhaps they don't give you the info because you aren't meant to have it in the first place?

I also notice the very thing I've brought up in the past. People complain that they want harder content in the game, then make it as easy as possible for themselves when they get it because they don't actually want a challenge. They just want to try to say they are better than everyone else.

If they were actually as good as they claim, they could beat any fight in the game, including Ultimates, on their very first completely blind attempt with no deaths or third party tools.

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Logistical information obfuscation is a stupid thing to do in a game that operates by numeric values. In a previous live letter, there was an really awful explanation on why things like damage type were not indicated in the game outside of trial and error. But when a significant majority of the jobs in the game have actions that only work on a specific damage type, it doesn't matter what the excuse is, that information should be clearly telegraphed by the developers(it isn't sometimes), and not assumed or data scraped by the playerbase. Same thing goes for things like UI tweaks, finding out what the actual STATS in this game do, or changing the sound settings within cutscenes via chat commands. The game simply does not have the amount of quality of life features or customizable user actions that some people would prefer.

Strawmanning people who use plugins is not the best way to go about this, because plugins, addons, pretty much everything 3rd party on XIV exists as a way to compensate for personal lack of ability OR maybe, things the developers do not have the time, or the intent to actually implement. Who are these people who are saying they're such god gamers, they knew that UWU was a trick fight designed to waste days worth of prog? You do know the Awoken buff was datamined pre-launch right? And even then, no one figured it out for days. Same thing with Enigma Codex. No one actually says this, and if you know someone who is actually using the legitimate completion of raid content as a cudgel to demean others without factual reasons to do so, such as the lack of merit/logic of their statements, why don't you just tell them to kick sand and stop being an unreasonable individual, instead of painting broadly with a "wow those people? they're actually trash!" brush? Just because you killed raids, doesn't make you 100% right or a better than another. I would think most well-adjusted people know this. There is no need to hyperbole. I complain about wanting harder content because things like Matoya's Relict are almost insulting as an Expert Dungeon, not because I need bot callouts for a protean spread for the 99th time in E11S. Actually watch some of these people do content, if you took the plugins away, I'd hazard a guess they would not immediately devolve into a gibbering mess unable to even do a standard rotation.

The issue is that SE doesn't establish actual boundaries, outside of "don't be mean", and even if they did, the playerbase is under no obligation to respect those boundaries. "But it's against ToS!!!!" Yeah, and? So is RMT, look at PF and Feast. If SE doesn't enforce it, doesn't punish and make an example of those people like they do for harassment/cheating, it doesn't matter. Remember the waymarker changes? Why wasn't everyone in that team who lead to that change immediately suspended? Because there's no real benefit to SE for doing so, no one got hurt, the content was still completed legitimately, and the PR mess would've been awful. It was just streamlining something in the game. Compare this to something to like Ungarmax, which was ACTUAL cheating despite only using in-game accessible commands. Issue is that it objectively delegitimized current content via exploits, and people were punished accordingly.

Modded content, animation and gear replacements, log uploading, packet interception, general game fixes are under the same 3rd party tool umbrella as Discord servers/overlays for content, programs that do Perform perfectly or inject a actual musical instrument into game inputs, or even just recording your own gameplay for uploading on a 3rd party site. Yoshida has said this. In fact, Duty Recorder is a perfect example on how SE continues to drop the ball on adding in features people would find incredibly useful, because their implementation is always half-baked and inferior compared to tools people already use. SSS and the aggro meter does not have enough useful information on a fight-per-fight basis on what needs to change to fix issues in a timely, respectful to those participating manner. Again, if we're not supposed to have access to damage numbers, simply don't put the damage information in the battle log, only actions. But then why do we have damage amounts to the exact number in PvP??? Why do enrages exist? Why is there a double standard, and with that, why isn't it being enforced unilaterally?

This is why the gray area exists. Because harassment and cheating are the actual issues, not the 3rd party tools themselves. If you want to hardline the 3rd party tool situation, you have to go scorched earth, and you have to do it early. The time for that was in Midas, or even debatably Final Coil. Otherwise people will just see it as developers taking away things from the community, even if the community should not have had those things in the first place. It's too ingrained now. There's nothing they can do without blowback. SE gets the best of both worlds by pretending not to notice, letting the community fix issues for them at their own "risk", and by slamming those players who use 3rd party tools when they start harassing the playerbase or going way, way too far. And if players are using triggers as a crutch to compensate of their lack of effort (not disability or some sort of mental block), I think they're doing themselves a disservice and hamstringing their own player development, but that's their choice, and I'm not here to hold their hand, lecture, and force them to play my way, even if we're in the same team together. I honestly don't care.

Side note, Nael quotes in UCOB are a bad mechanic, even after adjustments. In Nael herself they are barely tolerable, but in double trouble, particularly as the tank who is holding Twintania at the time, it is almost impossible to see that tiny chatbox between pure chaos going on around you, the flapping wings of Twin, your own battle effects, the sky being on literal fire. Perhaps if it was the larger, center of the screen textbox I wouldn't feel such ire torwards it. I still did it, but it wasn't a satisfying or interesting way to complete the mechanic, I feel like I was unfairly punished in contrast to my team, while something like A10S, which has MARKERS for what is essentially the same mechanic is immediately more understandable, it's big, it's color-coded, while still requiring the player to have eyeballs. I would've preferred 4 sets of faster Nael quotes with Markers than even 2 with textboxes. If you don't want people to feel like they are forced to use triggers, don't design bad mechanics. People are going to install triggers anyway if they're unwilling to learn, at least make the experience tolerable for those players who don't or can't use triggers. If triggers make your mechanic entirely irrelevant, that's on the developers. If you don't want people to do log review after every single pull, don't design mechanics like Light Rampant that have almost ZERO information feedback to the player. If you don't want people to use auto-markers, don't design mechanics like Titan goals, that circumvent traditional priority system solutions because of time to execute, and not because of mechanic complexity. (see:Tenstrike)

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The general consensus with Nael queues is they aren't well implemented. Having to glance at your chat box and decipher a phase within less than five seconds just isn't fun nor challenging. Most have said it the queues were a large chat bubble above Nael herself or at the top of your screen, they wouldn't be as bothered by the mechanic. RP queues is one of the few mechanics practically everyone said "Nope" and installed triggers. Even those who didn't like them otherwise. Keep in mind, the original phases were far more cryptic but were changed at the start of Shadowbringers largely because of how much disdain the community had towards the mechanic.

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Nael quotes DO appear above her head in a large text-bubble, and have done so since the day the content launched. The only point in the fight where you might have difficulty reading the quote is during adds, particularly if you are far from the boss. Fortunately you can just glance at your chat box for all of 2 seconds or rely on your tanks to call the mechanic.

Ultimate content is geared towards the literal best players in the world, and I don't think it's asking a lot to expect them to be able to read 3 words. It's not that different from learning to read any other boss tell, barring cases of genuine dyslexia.

Ok I'm going to be real here, and it is going to be the honest truth that some of you need to accept.


Rules only are rules if they are enforced.


So no matter what the developers say how they feel about it. Unless they can enforce or even have a way to find out what we are using. It might as well not be a rule. And I think they understand that. They say "It is against the rules to use addons or whatever." and the community said. Ok what can you do to stop us? Nothing? Well not only do we not care what you think. We will STREAM AND SHOW WE ARE USING. and you are not going to do a thing.

So being upset about people using these things is pointless.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Nael quotes DO appear above her head in a large text-bubble, and have done so since the day the content launched. The only point in the fight where you might have difficulty reading the quote is during adds, particularly if you are far from the boss. Fortunately you can just glance at your chat box for all of 2 seconds or rely on your tanks to call the mechanic.

Ultimate content is geared towards the literal best players in the world, and I don't think it's asking a lot to expect them to be able to read 3 words. It's not that different from learning to read any other boss tell, barring cases of genuine dyslexia.

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Here is a video guide of the quotes in question. In what world is this a big, large text-bubble? Not only that but it lasts for less than three seconds (the video is slowed down) before you're meant to react. Just because a fight is geared towards the higher end player doesn't mean mechanics like this are fun to execute. There is nothing mechanically interesting about deciphering a text quote mid-comment. For the same reason I try not reading FC or linkshell messages during chat, I don't enjoy an RP mechanic. It's needlessly distracting from the actual reason I enjoy this type of content: gameplay. This takes away from that aspect of the fight so I read a quote. Have I done it? Yes, several times. And I don't blame anyone for immediately installing triggers. It's just a poorly designed idea.

If you're relying on your tanks or any one person for a callout. What's really the difference over a TTS? If the whole argument is "do the mechanic yourself" Well, you aren't. You're dead if someone else isn't telling you what to do.

Regardless, it isn't about how much its asking from players but rather if the mechanic is fun to engage with. It isn't for the reasons stated above.

Only thing I have ever seen someone use is glamour mods (which some are absolutely amazing).

There is no need for anything else, especially damage meters.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Only thing I have ever seen someone use is glamour mods (which some are absolutely amazing).

There is no need for anything else, especially damage meters.

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My friend loves the combo addon that turns your skills into the pvp system. It has been a god send for him and made the game way more enjoyable. He says it feels like a fighting game now that he can hit AAA BBB for his rotation.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If you're relying on your tanks or any one person for a callout. What's really the difference over a TTS? If the whole argument is "do the mechanic yourself" Well, you aren't. You're dead if someone else isn't telling you what to do.

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This game is a team-based game, and someone, somewhere is having to perform some kind of execution to make that callout. When you use TTS, there is no longer a single person in your group actively involved with the mechanic as it was intended.

I never had any problems learning to read nael quotes so it's just hard for me to empathize with people who struggled with that mechanic. I don't see reading some text as being any different from say, reading a castbar or looking at whether or not a boss is lifting their left or right arm. It's just another way of communicating a mechanic at the end of the day, and reading it is inherently part of the execution of that fight. The quotes even come out during completely inactive parts of the fight, giving you plenty of time to read them. Using a plugin to mentally parse it for you is using a robot to simplify the fight execution, hence it being a crutch. I will continue to standby stating that it's a crutch, and that it detracts from the execution of the fight. Not every mechanic will be fun to every person. I have griped about many, many mechanics over the years, but I would never entertain using a third party tool to circumvent them just because I don't personally don't find them fun.

Using third party tools for diagnostic purposes between pulls is fine, but I genuinely believe that it's gone too far when the tool assists you with fight execution, regardless of if you find a mechanic 'fun' or not.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'd say it's a legitimate cause for concern.

SE doesn't support add ons and they're not actually legal to use, but that won't stop the community at large from requiring them if they become a common crutch for high tier content.

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Raiders always used them, mostly. And those who don't mutually agree on not using them. If someone calls you out in random groups for not doing enough damage and mentions your act numbers etc. you can report them and SE will ban them.

To me that is a great compromise, cause people will still get their butt kicked if they use these addons to talk down to others but people can still use these addons in silence to better themself or for theorycrafting. Not to mention that SE doesn't want to literally put spyware on our computers to check if there are any other bad programs running if it's just clientside. If it's not client side ofc the already in place system takes notice of that and such "hackers" get banned rather swiftly.

As Yoshi P. said, instead of calling for a crusade against anything and everyone maybe rather enjoy the game and don't look so much at others, if they bully you with your numbers from act you can report them and that's it. No need to scream for a purge.

They are technically against ToS. But SE doesn't really crack down on things outside the game so long as they're not used for harassment or egregious cheating. Some of the ones described in this thread like the hunt radar and that PvP one definitely sound like some that SE needs to look into. Anything related to botting as well.

I don't ever think that SE is going to acknowledge any of these officially or start content around their use. They've been pretty firm on their stance on that. They just turn a blind eye since some in the community find some of these useful and so long as they're using them responsibly, they aren't going to rake anyone over the coals.

Does nobody really see that this is the EXACT situation that WoW found itself in years back? DBM, damage meters, weak auras, and their ilk were not designed to serve the purpose they now serve. They were "tools" to help with your personal "performance". Now look what monstrosity those have mutated into. Slippery slope arguments are traditionally weak arguments and I don't like them, but we have all seen it is very real. These things propagate like a virus. How long until we start seeing people getting kicked from the duty finder for not having ACT or whatever mod everyone else starts to have? Thankfully FF has something of a time barrier before players can be kicked to prevent abuse in this fashion and by the time the lock is released, it's usually not worth it to boot someone unless they are being a piece of garbage.

Every single argument being made by people, saying it isn't a big deal and it won't affect anything, said the same exact things back then in WoW. And look where it is now.

And while it's a great idea in theory to simply enjoy the game and ignore what others are doing, when what others are doing are affecting how you play the game, that is a problem. And if we have learned anything over the years, people simply cannot be trusted. How long will it be before we see the group finder littered with 'Must have 5000 Fantasy Score to join', or whatever arbitrary metric people come up with to divide the player base?

Those that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

tho they really should be more active about it . and yeah. Playstation users cant use it . so having someone to monitor me is just meh way . other mods just need to be ban .

What do you mean, increasing amounts? :D

Dps meters didn't make wow into what people seem to perceive it as nowadays ^^

Not to mention that dps meters also existed all these years in XIV. It's not some new thing that is suddenly cropping up everywhere. xD DPS meters etc. where used by the community since the dawn of time (or coil that is) what do you think where all the class guides come from? From players hitting the stupid training dummies with a irl calculator in one hand?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Having to glance at your chat box and decipher a phrase within less than five seconds just isn't fun nor challenging.

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Clearly it is, or it wouldn't be so widely circumvented. I'll grant you that it's not a fun idea for most folks, since most raiders tend to be on the side of things where reading is not something they want, but if it wasn't challenging then there'd be no need for circumvention.

Same thing with Gaols, and any other mechanic that has its tells circumvented, whether by ACT triggers or Cactbot.

The difference between a human callout and a bot/trigger callout is that the bot/trigger is infallible if setup correctly. The human can do a wrong call, the human can call too late/too soon. With human callouts there are many mechanics within the game where if the human doesn't know to callout well before the actual tells, then the call is too late (which means there are quite a few mechs where human callouts do almost no good). Not too mention whenever there are team jump rope style mechanics where each person would need individual calls.

Bot/trigger callouts can be setup for every single mechanic for every single raider. They are a HUGE advantage. And without them there would be far fewer clears.

It's not really an issue if raiders kept to themselves and were humble about clears achieved using advantageous software crutches. However, a lot of them aren't, because they use high end raiding as a social hierarchy sorta thing/ego boost/ego justifier.

I have fond memories of a SMN main talking shit to PUGs and other people on A11S clear attempts in 2016. He'd beaten the fight, and was lording around like he was an expert. He linked me footage from his clear, and he had triggers rolling for everything. Laser Sword left call came out before the in game tell. Bait/Out/Spread/Shiva circles call came out before the in game tell. He had triggers reminding him when to reapply DOTs. When Enkindle came off cooldown.

For some things, bot/triggers are comparable to VoIP, but for many things they are not. A human cannot call a mechanic before its in game tell, unless they also use bot/triggers.

Much like FFXI and Windower or LUAs, though, people are going to justify these things no matter what. And every time a serious game changing thing is revealed to be possible via these things, they will double down and say things like, "Well, I don't, and none of my posse do either!" even if that's not entirely true. People like to have the edge, especially in areas where being perceived as skillful because of said edge is a thing.


Of course, it's also true that a lot of raid leads or people who like providing calls use these things to help far more casual players in lower end content like Extremes/Savages. Also sometimes, people are using them because they recognize they will never get as good at the game as some of their more dedicated/savvier gaming friends, so they narrow the gap with the advantage inherent in having them. These types of things keep the area grey, and I like to think of them as the reason why SE doesn't really want to do anything about them.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Much like FFXI and Windower or LUAs, though, people are going to justify these things no matter what.

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To be fair in 11, it's nearly impossible to play effectively without GearSwap and lua scripts to it. But it has the capability to automate gameplay which is the dangerous part.

can mods please nuke this thread

lmao people advertising bots and even the names of those bots. you'd think the bot creators are here trying to low-key advertise them

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Just dont want this game to turn into a bloated plugin addon game like WoW.

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Originally Posted by Nightshade3226

Every single argument being made by people, saying it isn't a big deal and it won't affect anything, said the same exact things back then in WoW. And look where it is now.

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This game has PlayStation playerbase. It's unlikely that the development team will start designing encounters with addons in mind.

The WoW mentality of every raid member must use addons is not because addons exist, but because their developers acknowledge the use of addons and started designing encounters with it in mind. A patch update in WoW will not break their addons. This is done intentionally.

While FFXIV patch will break all 3rd party addons for about 24~74 hours. A lot of players who clear Savage week 1 do it without addons.

This does not mean that WoW raiders are bad without addons, they are good players. It's just that some addons are a must because of their developer's approach.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

To be fair in 11, it's nearly impossible to play effectively without GearSwap and lua scripts to it. But it has the capability to automate gameplay which is the dangerous part.

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Literally not true. All LUA and Gearswap have ever accomplished are cleaner, quicker kills. Some of the most impressive solos and lowman things in the game were accomplished without them. They are routinely used now to automate alts.

I played FFXI without Windower for over a decade, and I still have yet to use it. People just like having an edge.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Literally not true. All LUA and Gearswap have ever accomplished are cleaner, quicker kills. Some of the most impressive solos and lowman things in the game were accomplished without them. They are routinely used now to automate alts.

I played FFXI without Windower for over a decade, and I still have yet to use it. People just like having an edge.

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I mean it's one of those things that makes it impossible to go back once you started. You never used it so I guess it's hard for to picture how it's like using.
I haven't played 11 in 8 years so things may changed but as I recall you had quite limited macrolines and equipsets so if you played something that required a lot of gear swapping to maximize your job, like casters back in teh day at least and some DPS with different sets, then Gearswap and even basic function in Windower was a godsent.

But I'm not here to argue about a old game, just my experience with it from playing it a decade with windower.

I always find it a bit sad when addons like massive raid warnings become normalized so I hope that doesn't happen...
Like the screen going red and a big audio warning telling you that a mechanic is coming and all that, it makes content feel so automated.
Same with addons that essentially make you have to '' play less '' and give you big advantages.

I don't have a problem with ACT and all that but addons that affect gameplay and makes it easier is a big nono imo.
As soon as that becomes normalized it essentially becomes the status quo and you're punished for not using them.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

As soon as that becomes normalized it essentially becomes the status quo and you're punished for not using them.

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I completely agree, Use of addons is going to get out of hand very fast if nothing is done, they are clearly in breech of the ToS, Square need to either allow 3rd party addons OR not, you can't have any "grey" area's, there is no middle ground because that's when you lose control.

I know alot have been in the game for quite a while and have been deliberately ignored, but recently with the big influx of new players and a large number of influential streamers , what alot of players previously did not know about is now becoming common knowledge, some of the new streamers even uploading "addon" guides and even downloads of there own addon's and settings through their Discords

This will eventually get out of hand, and its already started.

I recently joined the game, like 3 or so months ago, came from WoW :) biggest plus for the game was the no addons policy and everyone equal.

There are players out there openly, streaming using addons that automate skill bonus combo's onto one button, com'on if that's not basically botting and automating gameplay and very clearly against ToS , then the ToS needs a revamp, because it is going to get worse


I am having a blast , fell in love with the game, but recent;y watching some streams of "ex" WoW players to learn boss mechanics and see how they handle boss's as new players too, But straight off the bat I see they are very clearly using game changing 3rd party addons, which very clearly do make a difference is very very sad to see.

UI and QoL addons shouldn't be an issue. Honestly, there are a lot of QoL changes SE should have made but for whatever reason (financial) haven't even bothered to do. All of those are perfectly fine.
If you see anything that is outright cheating (stuff that marks adds on a map, etc. etc.), just report it.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

Well WoW Mythic people who race and brag about the skills would be in total disarray without their precious cheat addons which Blizzard also allows. It's all about people being hypocrites. Same applies to any tool which gives you the notification on mechanics, no matter the game

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WoW Mythic people who race are literally raiding in FF14 as we speak and doing just fine. Far better than the majority of the FF14 player base might I add, despite having no experience with the game and a playtime of a handful of days due to boosting.
WoW is tuned for addons, so calling them "cheat addons" is a gross misrepresentation.

Callout tools are a grey area, it takes longer to set a callout than it does to just have someone remember the mechanics and call them out. So in that sense, it's inconsequential. The Grey part starts when the tools read out more than what is on screen.

For some classes like disc priest they pretty much need things like dbm and big wigs because they're a preemptive healer that needs 15-20 sec of prep and lot of the mechanics are random. Compared to this game where almost nothing is random, preemptive healers don't need timers and such because it's always the same. Like I don't need cactbot or whatever in this game but In wow if I didn't have big wigs it would be impossible to play disc priest.

YoshiP stance on third party tool is you don't talk about it, and you don't harass other player with it, that really all. they only act if it's bot are they are tinkering with the server side of the game, and just for people who doesnt know they ban bot en masse and not when someone report them.

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Originally Posted by Acece

For some classes like disc priest they pretty much need things like dbm and big wigs because they're a preemptive healer that needs 15-20 sec of prep and lot of the mechanics are random. Compared to this game where almost nothing is random, preemptive healers don't need timers and such because it's always the same. Like I don't need cactbot or whatever in this game but In wow if I didn't have big wigs it would be impossible to play disc priest.

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I think this is also just a problem with gameplay addons being normalized in WoW, the devs design the game based on that.
Which further necessitates them.

WoW is kinda just too far gone when it comes to that there's no way to really undo that.
It's not necessarily a bad thing if it works for WoW but at the same time I think that once you start opening up the door for it then it basically just infests every game.
If people can use an addon to make the game easier they will, and if they do then it becomes expected that everyone should and you just gimp yourself by not doing it.
Personally I like how FFXIV is a more '' pure '' experience, you can just install the game and play you don't have to mod your game into hell to '' make it playable ''.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Personally I like how FFXIV is a more '' pure '' experience, you can just install the game and play you don't have to mod your game into hell to '' make it playable ''.

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This.

Just install FFXIV and you re ready to go.

But to be honest here, Gshade is a nice addition when taking screenshots and I dont wanna miss it. And the best part: Its allowed to use it : )

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I think this is also just a problem with gameplay addons being normalized in WoW, the devs design the game based on that.
Which further necessitates them.

WoW is kinda just too far gone when it comes to that there's no way to really undo that.
It's not necessarily a bad thing if it works for WoW but at the same time I think that once you start opening up the door for it then it basically just infests every game.
If people can use an addon to make the game easier they will, and if they do then it becomes expected that everyone should and you just gimp yourself by not doing it.
Personally I like how FFXIV is a more '' pure '' experience, you can just install the game and play you don't have to mod your game into hell to '' make it playable ''.

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I just think that because of the random nature of wow you need these add-ons. In FFXIV you don't need it because how static the fights are. Which is fine, I loved playing disc priest where in this game I can only tolerate the healing. mainly because how static the fights are.

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Originally Posted by elvenmad

There are players out there openly, streaming using addons that automate skill bonus combo's onto one button, com'on if that's not basically botting and automating gameplay and very clearly against ToS , then the ToS needs a revamp, because it is going to get worse

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There is ABSOLUTELY no skill difference between pressing 1 2 3 and 1 1 1. It's all muscle memory. This has NOTHING to do with automation, it's still the exact same number of inputs from the player.

There are far more addons for FFXIV than this thread brings up. There are way more third party tools for FFXIV than most people realize. Everyone thinks its just ACT, Reshade, Cactbot, but there are plenty of others. FFXIV Quick Launcher, Burning down the House, Nael Quote plugins, Titan Jail plugins, auto macro makers, Waypoint anywhere plugins, Housing place card clickers, auto crafting bots, Bard Preform Bots, CMT, Outfit mods, nudity mods, Hunt Alerts, Fate Alerts, do any Emote plugins, custom emotes, Cheat Engine as of recently. There are hundreds of plugins. There is even a plugin to bring up the Market Board from anywhere in the game, including while in an instance. There are even silly plugins for stuff like alerts for if another player has clicked on you. There is even a plugin to talk on discord through the game directly. There is a plugin for the best moment to refresh dots. It calculates how many dots are on the boss and on you and if now would be the best time to refresh dots early or not. It's a lot bigger and far more vast than people realize. Everyone just thinks it's all ACT and parse gauges and it's not.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Hello, i was just wondering, i see a lot of streamers using custom 3d party tool UI interface, ACT, plugins that let you tag and find mobs around the map..
As far as i know this shouldnt be allowed.

Just dont want this game to turn into a bloated plugin addon game like WoW.

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what is your question?
you started your pot with "Hello, i was just wondering.." but never actually asked anything?
are you here to just try and cause some sort of drama.. or do you have a question?

yes we know 3rd party addons arent allowed. Nothing that these turrible streamers are using is causing you or the game any harm. everything that they are using is quality of life and have been used for ages.

I think the fact that the game is also on console does a lot to mitigate this problem. This community will never be completely enveloped in add on culture because a massive portion of the community will never be able to use them. In this way even people on PC who don't want to use add ons will always have a large pool of players to run content with.

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Originally Posted by Remish

There are far more addons for FFXIV than this thread brings up. There are way more third party tools for FFXIV than most people realize. Everyone thinks its just ACT, Reshade, Cactbot, but there are plenty of others. FFXIV Quick Launcher, Burning down the House, Nael Quote plugins, Titan Jail plugins, auto macro makers, Waypoint anywhere plugins, Housing place card clickers, auto crafting bots, Bard Preform Bots, CMT, Outfit mods, nudity mods, Hunt Alerts, Fate Alerts, do any Emote plugins, custom emotes, Cheat Engine as of recently. There are hundreds of plugins. There is even a plugin to bring up the Market Board from anywhere in the game, including while in an instance. There are even silly plugins for stuff like alerts for if another player has clicked on you. There is even a plugin to talk on discord through the game directly. There is a plugin for the best moment to refresh dots. It calculates how many dots are on the boss and on you and if now would be the best time to refresh dots early or not. It's a lot bigger and far more vast than people realize. Everyone just thinks it's all ACT and parse gauges and it's not.

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You re overreacting a bit. There are not "hundreads" of plugins. WoW may be have hundreads of addons.

To be honest here, a single outfit mod is not a whole third party tool or addon. Same goes for ACT plugins (like for Nael Quotes). And Bard Perform is not a bot as far as I know.
Most people will use GShade and ACT (which are the most usefull tools in my opinion). The rest is like... for people who really need it or risk to use it. But nothing what hurts as much as real bots.

So... whats your point? Just because something exists, doesnt means that everyone uses it. I assume, 80% of your list will be used by 2% of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

You re overreacting a bit. There are not "hundreads" of plugins. WoW may be have hundreads of addons.

To be honest here, a single outfit mod is not a whole third party tool or addon. Same goes for ACT plugins (like for Nael Quotes). And Bard Perform is not a bot as far as I know.
Most people will use GShade and ACT (which are the most usefull tools in my opinion). The rest is like... for people who really need it or risk to use it. But nothing what hurts as much as real bots.

So... whats your point? Just because something exists, doesnt means that everyone uses it. I assume, 80% of your list will be used by 2% of the playerbase.

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All I did was drop some information into an on going thread. There was no over reacting at all. If compiling a full list of existing plugins and bots is "over reacting" to you, then you're letting the wrong things bother you. My 'point' is that there are actually hundred of mods, just not very well known or commonly used yet. And if hundreds is the wrong choice of words than my apologizes, because there are still a lot. I'm not going to worry about semantics over a word. Just because they are not popular does not equal to the fact that they do not exist. You're right, it's not on the scale of WoW at this moment. But there are more mods than ACT, Reshade, Cactbot, and Client side clothes..

So let me ask this. There is a addon that lets you use the pvp system for combos. Instead of hitting 123 it lets you hit 111 222 333 for your combos. Do you all consider that cheating? The person still has to hit the buttons it is just how they hit them.

Is it really worth this company time to go after said person or addons that they found a way to enjoy the game that is not hurting others or the market?

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Originally Posted by Remish

There are far more addons for FFXIV than this thread brings up. There are way more third party tools for FFXIV than most people realize. Everyone thinks its just ACT, Reshade, Cactbot, but there are plenty of others. FFXIV Quick Launcher, Burning down the House, Nael Quote plugins, Titan Jail plugins, auto macro makers, Waypoint anywhere plugins, Housing place card clickers, auto crafting bots, Bard Preform Bots, CMT, Outfit mods, nudity mods, Hunt Alerts, Fate Alerts, do any Emote plugins, custom emotes, Cheat Engine as of recently. There are hundreds of plugins. There is even a plugin to bring up the Market Board from anywhere in the game, including while in an instance. There are even silly plugins for stuff like alerts for if another player has clicked on you. There is even a plugin to talk on discord through the game directly. There is a plugin for the best moment to refresh dots. It calculates how many dots are on the boss and on you and if now would be the best time to refresh dots early or not. It's a lot bigger and far more vast than people realize. Everyone just thinks it's all ACT and parse gauges and it's not.

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I doubt very many people use most of those. I've been playing since ARR and have only even heard of, like, two of them.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

You re overreacting a bit. There are not "hundreads" of plugins. WoW may be have hundreads of addons.

To be honest here, a single outfit mod is not a whole third party tool or addon. Same goes for ACT plugins (like for Nael Quotes). And Bard Perform is not a bot as far as I know.
Most people will use GShade and ACT (which are the most usefull tools in my opinion). The rest is like... for people who really need it or risk to use it. But nothing what hurts as much as real bots.

So... whats your point? Just because something exists, doesnt means that everyone uses it. I assume, 80% of your list will be used by 2% of the playerbase.

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Also didn't realize we was gonna list all plugins that's available for ACT and XIVLauncher which is 2 third party apps that is both liked by community.
Most of the things that they mentioned isn't even available unless you do some digging and research.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

So let me ask this. There is a addon that lets you use the pvp system for combos. Instead of hitting 123 it lets you hit 111 222 333 for your combos. Do you all consider that cheating? The person still has to hit the buttons it is just how they hit them.

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Personally I do.

Imagine you had a special controller for guitar-hero that allowed you to play by pressing only one button, but were able to compete on the same scoreboards as people who played the normal way.

Many of the things included in XIVlauncher give unfair advantages in fight execution. Visible hitpixels, combo shortners, slidecast indicators etc.