I hope we never see a system of essences or lost abilities again

I don't completely hate the system but it definitely needs to be streamlined and iterated on before we see it again. For starters it needs to be WAY MORE CLEAR how and where you can get specific lost actions/essences. People shouldn't have look up the abilities they need on a site outside the game.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Im sorry for being the a**hole for pointing it out, but regular 60-90min DR normal is not an issue of essences but rather an issue of the general playerbase in that content on your datacenter having doodoo playing skills and / or treating it with similar attention to Praetorium.

No essences or actions fix people dying to common mechanics over and over again.

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No, it's an issue of essences. I'm on the same data center.

I've never seen a 90 minute run but I've had runs being kinda close to an hour. The overwhelming majority of the time it's not a wipefest, some bosses just drag on and become damage sponges due to lack of dps essences.

I am the last person to know anything concrete about Bozja, period, but this sort of chasing of some old school mmo vibe Bozja and Eureka (supposedly, maybe) have been have turned me away from relics completely. I do not want content like that, period. I play modern mmo because FFXIV especially has been the beast which showed me how much I actually dislike the old school mmo shenanigans.

Sure ARR relic and Anima weapon were tedious to put together, but you bought the stuff you needed with tomes or GC seals you accumuate anyway as byproduct of all sorts of other activities. Once in a blue moon you did some FATEs. I take that 100% over running around map build up with leftover assets and doing raid two times the size of Alliance raid and half the brainpower on player side.

My roommate has bothered with both Eureka and Bozja and I have funded her Cerberus mount grinding project with no small amount of GIL, and her utter frustration with that content is only making me think I not have chosen wrong.
(rant about stuff i know nothing about finished.)

Well, there is an really easy solution to all your problems. Get friends. Since you can choose your friends you can choose people that match your level of skill. Then run with these friends your prefered content and enjoy the feeling of never having to deal with random players again.

Or...use the partyfinder tool. It's not that hard. Search people there, if they don't perform as you want them to then just kick them after the run. Also not that hard.

So my hot take on this issue is: If you don't want to put the work in to get a good run together you deserve to suffer for your own poor choices. The system isn't wrong. It gets people what they need, the clear no matter the cost (which is time in this case). Essences are just on top of that. Delubrum isn't harder cause we have essences. Delubrum is easier cause essences exist but would be still challenging even without essences. I don't believe SE made Delubrum harder just cause there are essences which make it easier, it was always meant as challenging content even for "low tier" players.

If you can't deal with that stop being a crying antisocial forum user and try to make some friends or a party of all those who constantly cry about stuff. So the stream of salty tears and essences can carry you through the raid in mere seconds.

You can buy the fragments from the Market Board.

You ever wondered why different elemental sprites spawns depending on the weather? Hint: They drop fragments. Go kill them.

I often end up with more fragments than needed. It's not that hard.

No, lost action and essences are fine. It's great to be allowed to be creative with skill in a side content since PVE raids are so rigids.
I agree it shouldn't be consumable. It would make it less tedious.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

While you can get a lot of Fragments that way, the actions in Caution, Igenuity (which has swift) and Violence frags do not really speed up DR runs.

What you actually need are Skill (from non-magitek mobs in Section I), Awakening (from non-magitek mobs in Section II) and Supersition (CLL).

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While they don't speed up the runs, they're an easy way to provide beneficial skills that could otherwise help. Cure and Cure 3 and Lost Shell drop from Z1, Banish, Spellforge and Steelsting drop from Z2, and Focus drops from Z3. These all are beneficial not only in DR, but in CLL (Spellforge specifically that I can remember) and in CEs and FATEs.

Edit: Also, Focus will provide a direct aid in speeding up DR runs by increasing the potency of weaponskills. being able to cure yourself and others allows for more dps overall.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I don't completely hate the system but it definitely needs to be streamlined and iterated on before we see it again. For starters it needs to be WAY MORE CLEAR how and where you can get specific lost actions/essences. People shouldn't have look up the abilities they need on a site outside the game.

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This.

You need to fight the right monsters, see which fragments they drop, see which actions/essences you get when they're appraised, and then consult the cache to see what they actually do.

Plus, the monsters that drop fragments aren't furthering anything else. You don't get EXP, you don't get mettle, you're not unlocking CEs. The split between "fight enemy A to further objective X, fight enemy B for objective Y" just makes it feel like whatever you do, you're neglecting the other thing.

Maybe it's "easy" to farm fragments. Maybe it doesn't take "that much time". But it's still time you have to put into doing something dull and repetitive just to prepare for something else, and for me that's the quickest way to make me give up on something altogether.

I would have preferred some kind of permanent unlockable one could purchase with the essences. And make a large variety to get some truly crazy custom builds/meta like you can find in other MMOs, even if it’s only in Bozja.

Make it very simple where 25 essence A and 100 essence B unlock ability C forever.

…then make the essences drop from relevant things.. like heal/raise related would drop from healer/support mobs. Maybe fire/burst damage from that red chocobo, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I don't completely hate the system but it definitely needs to be streamlined and iterated on before we see it again. For starters it needs to be WAY MORE CLEAR how and where you can get specific lost actions/essences. People shouldn't have look up the abilities they need on a site outside the game.



No, it's an issue of essences. I'm on the same data center.

I've never seen a 90 minute run but I've had runs being kinda close to an hour. The overwhelming majority of the time it's not a wipefest, some bosses just drag on and become damage sponges due to lack of dps essences.

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Sure, maybe it isn't a wipefest, but actions & essences are merely multipliers. The basics of dealing high damage are still the same - opener, rotation, using abilities when they come off cooldown and riding the GCD timer are still integral to actually doing damage. To say the issue is once again mostly essences and not poor gameplay strikes me very odd, but if it helps to cope, you do you.

Kinda wish they made them bluemage-esque, like once you find or learn you just have it for good and can toss it into the lost action hotbar kind of deal.

How about learning "lost actions" permanently? You would still need essences and you could resell them if you wanted to. That way people have a reason to spend their gil and people have opportunities to get more. That would make it easier to get back into the zone later once the content is mostly obsolete, but still farmed for the unique rewards.

I also think they should remove any direct DPS boosts and balance the content around normal ilvl sync damage output. I'd rather see more utility than just people bringing stuff that makes the fights shorter.

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Originally Posted by SillyCrow

How about learning "lost actions" permanently? You would still need essences and you could resell them if you wanted to. That way people have a reason to spend their gil and people have opportunities to get more. That would make it easier to get back into the zone later once the content is mostly obsolete, but still farmed for the unique rewards.

I also think they should remove any direct DPS boosts and balance the content around normal ilvl sync damage output. I'd rather see more utility than just people bringing stuff that makes the fights shorter.

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As far as the DPS potions go, I'd like them removed entirely. They add nothing to the experience, and wind up being a net drag on clear times when people invariably refuse to use them. The problem is simply that the content is being balanced around an item that people routinely don't use. So, the net result is that the content is then imbalanced. And it is imbalanced and terrible most of the time (and every once in a while is really fun when the stars align and people use the freaking potions).

I don't care about, like, lost slash and lost assassinate, etc. either way. If people love them and want them to stay - fine. If SE were to give them the axe, that would also be fine. While a lot of the offensive abilities represent a DPS uptick, my guess is that it's the essence potions that are the real killer when you do they clears - particularly when it comes to tank and healer-heavy runs where they aren't using those 50% DPS pots that insanely inflate their performance. And, let's be honest here, if there's a 'flavor' to be derived from this system, it's from the lost actions, not the essences. So if a piece of this is going to be retained, it should be the one that actually alters your character, and not the one that adds just a flat percentage boost to stats.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

As far as the DPS potions go, I'd like them removed entirely. They add nothing to the experience, and wind up being a net drag on clear times when people invariably refuse to use them. The problem is simply that the content is being balanced around an item that people routinely don't use. So, the net result is that the content is then imbalanced. And it is imbalanced and terrible most of the time (and every once in a while is really fun when the stars align and people use the freaking potions).

I don't care about, like, lost slash and lost assassinate, etc. either way. If people love them and want them to stay - fine. If SE were to give them the axe, that would also be fine. While a lot of the offensive abilities represent a DPS uptick, my guess is that it's the essence potions that are the real killer when you do they clears - particularly when it comes to tank and healer-heavy runs where they aren't using those 50% DPS pots that insanely inflate their performance. And, let's be honest here, if there's a 'flavor' to be derived from this system, it's from the lost actions, not the essences. So if a piece of this is going to be retained, it should be the one that actually alters your character, and not the one that adds just a flat percentage boost to stats.

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It's true that the potions hardly fit in to begin with. Why do we get potions and phoenix downs from essences... it doesn't really make sense. I can understand learning unique skills though.

Tbh I enjoyed the system even if having to RNG farm the right essences is a chore ^^

But hey, maybe I just like chore-y grinds :D

Should just be a skill tree that you spend the mettle/e exp/whatever they use next to unlock additional actions with the little HP/DMG/Heal buffs sprinkled in as filler nodes imo

They can add more abilities/interactions as more zones are added. They don't even have to be super balanced so long as they're fun to use since they would be locked to it's own area.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This.

You need to fight the right monsters, see which fragments they drop, see which actions/essences you get when they're appraised, and then consult the cache to see what they actually do.

Plus, the monsters that drop fragments aren't furthering anything else. You don't get EXP, you don't get mettle, you're not unlocking CEs. The split between "fight enemy A to further objective X, fight enemy B for objective Y" just makes it feel like whatever you do, you're neglecting the other thing.

Maybe it's "easy" to farm fragments. Maybe it doesn't take "that much time". But it's still time you have to put into doing something dull and repetitive just to prepare for something else, and for me that's the quickest way to make me give up on something altogether.

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Yeah this was another big turnoff in Bozja for me.

People saying this is a nod to old MMORPG style... not really. More like a mockery of it.

Why do we have to punish everyone just because some people are too stupid?

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Why do we have to punish everyone just because some people are too stupid?

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Because those people's stupid is already punishing us? :D:D

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Why do we have to punish everyone just because some people are too stupid?

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Sadly the few are actually the majority. (That is if you're talking about essences)

I enjoy the current system and do not think it should be altered to be more convenient or streamlined because people just cannot be bothered or are too stupid to understand the benfits they offer.

Though i also tend to enjoy grinding for items I find it relaxing, also rewarding when you are framing items to prep for an upcoming encounter and it is awesome to see that work have a noticeable gain.

Additional to my previous post, the overall system is "do uninteresting repetitive grindy thing A so you are well-prepared to do mildly interesting (the first few times of many) repetitive grindy thing B, which is not sufficient motivation to get past the first thing.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Sure, maybe it isn't a wipefest, but actions & essences are merely multipliers. The basics of dealing high damage are still the same - opener, rotation, using abilities when they come off cooldown and riding the GCD timer are still integral to actually doing damage. To say the issue is once again mostly essences and not poor gameplay strikes me very odd, but if it helps to cope, you do you.

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I mean, I do every piece of content in the game with these same people and haven't generally noticed fights taking too long except for maybe the Diamond Weapon which has a lot of starting and stopping so it's hard to judge.

Delubrum Reginae can be a slog if people haven't gone through the hoops to get their damage essences. A lack of essences can make a HUGE difference in DR which is balanced around players having them.

The only time I had to buy any essences was when I was trying to unlock the entire plate to 99, and there were a handful I was missing so I bought a chunk off the board and spammed them.

Otherwise, I've just kept the ones I've earned as I've earned them, and switched jobs depending on which one had good essences that day. (Perk of being all 80s.)

I've never "grinded" for essences. I never had to. I kind of would like less Lost Bubbles and more Lost Potions since I'm running low on those, but it just means I keep Lost Bubble on more or less permanently since it's a free and easy way to help the party survive.

I think, and I may just be speaking for myself here, that players that aren't using them fall into the mindset of "do I actually have to use this item to clear at all?" and if that answer is no, then there's no feeling that if they're not using one they're hurting the team. None of the bosses have enrage mechanics like a savage tier fight would, so if the only punishment is it takes longer, than there are those who look at it and think they can waste their time farming essences or waste their time with a longer run, so it's a wash. (I'm sure someone will math out the difference in time, and quite frankly I don't care what people have mathed out here. It's well known that people will optimize the fun out of any game with math and time calculations)

If I happen to have an essence that will make things better, sure I'll use it. But if I'm out, I'm not going to give up running the content I want to run because I haven't gone back and grinded enough enemies to get the thing someone else thinks is mandatory but actually isn't, and I'm sure as hell not going to spend my money on a one time consumable item for one clear of what is, arguably, casual content.

All that being said, I do agree that the system they chose to use is pretty terrible, and perhaps the easiest solution would have been to just make the essences unlockable stances that you just apply rather than one time consumable items, or if not that, at least where you don't lose essences you already have up while you're in Gangos so if someone so chooses, they can just remain there for as long as they want to be running Bojza content without having to reapply an essence for every single instance of anything they want to run.

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Originally Posted by Acece

Sadly the few are actually the majority. (That is if you're talking about essences)

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Fair. Haha
Still, I don't think the solution should be dumbing down.

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Originally Posted by Acece

Sadly the few are actually the majority. (That is if you're talking about essences)

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FrayedCirc...restricted.gif

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Fair. Haha
Still, I don't think the solution should be dumbing down.

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I'm not convinced that eliminating the essences is dumbing down - they're just a flat stat boost that you click once. The lost abilities are actually interactive. I don't know that we'd miss a stat boost/damage increase (or, in the case of most DR runs, deficit) were it removed the next time they do a zone analogous to Eureka/Bozjan.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

I'm not convinced that eliminating the essences is dumbing down - they're just a flat stat boost that you click once. The lost abilities are actually interactive. I don't know that we'd miss a stat boost/damage increase (or, in the case of most DR runs, deficit) were it removed the next time they do a zone analogous to Eureka/Bozjan.

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Keep the lost actions but make them either just unlocks and then a gil fee to put them in holster (or whatever they will call the next one). I mean we need more gil sinks so why not. Essences I think should be replaced by an expanded honors system similar to what was introduced with Zadnor

My complaint is that they are called "Lost" actions even after you find them. Once you find it, by definition, it's no longer lost. The actions you haven't found can be called lost actions, but rename them to found actions once you have them. :p

I didn't mind the essences in ShB. It was the lost action stuff in SB that made me quit the relic grind on the spot once I found I needed a certain number of unique ones just to continue. Depends on how they do it on if I'll bother with the content or not.