Fishing Not Respectful Of Player's Time

I don't know how enjoyable or fulfilling it is to complete the fishing log in one or two days just to get back standing afk in town because there's nothing to do.

This is not an honest thread.

when people popularize the term 'respect player's time' in WOW (you mentioned WOW first not me), it refers to a whole system upon system of abuse.

- temporary character upgrade that would expire in next patch (not next expansion, next patch, by expire it covers not only general iLVL increase but all the system added)

- time gated reward

- not only reward based on grinding, but the amount of grinding to get a reward is reduced in future patch

- and much more

And you (intentional or otherwise) reduce all these abuse by WOW dev by using the term "respect player's time" on "RNG in fishing" in FF14?

Can you be more honest? If you want to talk about fishing in FF14 fine, just talk about it, don't make shady comparisons that is simply dishonest!

1) Getting caught up with fishing gets easier in each expansion with the various new abilities you unlock.
2) On top of it, you can now ignore the weather conditions for a lot of fish, which makes it waaay easier to get caught up.
3) I agree that the amount of different baits needed, especially in ARR, is ridiculous and annoying, but once you are done with all the ARR fish, it gets better.
4) Once you are caught up, I feel like it respects my time just as much as any other thing IMO. I just go fishing every few days for a few minutes and relax and hope I get the big fish I want. It's not a race. You just go fishing 10 minutes every few hours if you really want to try hard. No big deal.
5) Actually, the only thing big fishing really needs IMO is not to get easier; it is to have better rewards. I don't know, let me have the Ruby Dragon as a mount or something...


I was caught up with the log in 5.3. When 5.4 came out, and people figured out how to catch the new fish, it just took me a couple days to get all the new ones.
I still need to try the ones from 5.5, but no rush.

Honestly, if you make it less RNG-based than it is, I think it would take a lot of the appeal away from it.
Unlike other gathering classes, you barely need any fish to craft. So if you get caught up with your log just 2h after a patch drops, then you wouldn't have any reason to use your fisher anymore until the next patch.

Ya'll remember having to fish Silver Sovereigns to get that Forager's Rod back in 2.0? And almost the only way to reliably get Silver Sovereigns was to HAVE a foragers rod?

And then you needed that to catch those Tremors worms (Olgoi-Khorkhoi) for the Halycon rod supra?

Good times.

THAT was some hardcore RNG.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Ya'll remember having to fish Silver Sovereigns to get that Forager's Rod back in 2.0? And almost the only way to reliably get Silver Sovereigns was to HAVE a foragers rod?

And then you needed that to catch those Tremors worms (Olgoi-Khorkhoi) for the Halycon rod supra?

Good times.

THAT was some hardcore RNG.

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Oh yes. That was before they implementet the sky watcher NPCs, I was hanging out in Southern Thanalan for days, waiting for the correct weather. Then I cought an Olgoi-Khorkhoi in HQ and I had to catch a fourth one for the quest, because you could not reduce the quality of items back then.

Fun times.

But: I have memories of doing that back in 2014. I don't remember what I did to get my relic fishing rod a few months ago o.ô;

My method of approaching it has been to catch the 30 fish for the challenge log each week, and pick at fishing holes that way. Finally caught Cornelia a couple weeks ago. Now working on the last 200 fish to be done with Black Shroud fishing holes.

I worked hard for weeks to get <of Dragons Deep> and I still contend it's one of the tougher titles to earn in the game, obviously not as tough as Perfect Legend, but still pretty rough.

I dunno, I really do like just kicking back with a beer IRL and fishing for hours, too. It's relaxing. Sure, waiting for weather transitions is a pain in the butt, but there's plenty of fish in the sea, and always something available to catch that you didn't before. Just have to pin down what it is (I have a spreadsheet to help...)

If they made fished items have a purpose in game to the same level as botany and mining, then they wouldn't hesitate to implement some of the necessary QoL to make fishing a viable third gathering class instead of a forgotten side hobby. So it needs purpose as a gathering class.

They need to get rid of the cap on catch rate so if you vastly outlevel something, you get it. I've had Feast of Famine in my quest log for years (not days, not weeks, not months, years) because getting some of those fish is not about any sort of skill or preparation, it's about pure luck with RNG. Because you can do every single thing right and have that fish on your hook multiple times and it keeps getting away. So that needs to go. Especially if the window for something comes around every few real life weeks (or I think there's one that's even months) .

One of the commonalities I'm seeing in this thread from naysayers who don't want fishing improved is that they think it's fine being a broken RNG mess because that keeps more people away and they can feel special they put up with the tedium.

I was an omnicrafter on multiple characters before they did the revamps and streamlined things. They made improvements that helped both hardcore and casual crafters and gatherers. They made things much more accessible. None of that negates the work I put in under the old rules. And bringing fishing in line with the other gathering classes wouldn't negate any work someone previously put in. It's pure selfishness to not want something to improve because it would make you lose your special status.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If they made fished items have a purpose in game to the same level as botany and mining, then they wouldn't hesitate to implement some of the necessary QoL to make fishing a viable third gathering class instead of a forgotten side hobby. So it needs purpose as a gathering class.

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They have already done that with the addition of spear fishing, wich is a lot more accessible than regular fishing. But for some reason they don't utilize it properly.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If they made fished items have a purpose in game to the same level as botany and mining, then they wouldn't hesitate to implement some of the necessary QoL to make fishing a viable third gathering class instead of a forgotten side hobby. So it needs purpose as a gathering class.

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They've said they designed it to be basically separate from the rest of the game.
They want it to be side content, and honestly it not interacting with much else is what I like about it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

A complete revamp of the bait system. Make them offhands and put levels on them. There shouldn't be hundreds of baits. It just gets confusing.

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Done and done. You need exactly three (3) types of bait to fish for anything except the Big Fish these days. Might not even need it then. Bait isn't an issue - Gathering and Perception skills are.

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A complete revamp of the available fish. RNG makes it an utter pain in the @$$ to complete the log when there are literally thousands of fish. It needs condensed.

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Probably not going to happen soon, if ever. Most of those fish you think are required for completion were from ARR, as SE apparently abandoned the need to obtain epeen by catching Big Fish after that.

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Stop with the time gates and weather gates. There's a reason the Sightseeing Logs stopped using them. It sucks trying to get that one fish when it only spawns at 2AM for a 1 hour period and then doesn't appear again for the next 4 days.

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Going for the Big Fish again? Or perhaps the elusive Desert Catfish ... which I have to go back to the Sagoli to catch on an alt some time soon.

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No other job has is this much of a pain to master or let alone level. "The RNG is part of the job". It doesn't have to be.

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Most people who blaze through the leveling process these days are enjoying the risks and rewards of Ocean Fishing. Mastering Fishing, however, requires a level of dedication that is only rewarded by patience and timing. And figuring out the weather and timing.

Timing is fine, since it's used for every single one-star-and-above item you gather in all the post-level 50 'rare' spots.

As for weather, well, Waterproof Cotton can desynth'd from the Sweetnewt (one of the few fish with an 11 pm to 3 am fishing window), but it also comes from the Olgoi-Korkhoi that just requires Heat Waves. In a desert. Which is way too common.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Done and done. You need exactly three (3) types of bait to fish for anything except the Big Fish these days. Might not even need it then. Bait isn't an issue - Gathering and Perception skills are.

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A friend of me finished his fisher relic in mostly level 70 scrip gear. Now look what the crafters have to do for their relic. Stats are really not a problem at all if you don't plan to catch the big fish. Fishing is way more accessible than people think. Leveling is super fast and scrip gear is more than enough for almost anything, especially the stuff wich brings the money in. And yes, you can make money as a fisher.

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As for weather, well, Waterproof Cotton can desynth'd from the Sweetnewt (one of the few fish with an 11 pm to 3 am fishing window), but it also comes from the Olgoi-Korkhoi that just requires Heat Waves. In a desert. Which is way too common.

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There is a fish in the Ruby Sea at Hell's Lid, the Shrieker, that you can catch at any time and any weather that also can be desynthesized into Waterproof Cotton.

Every single one of these arguments that fishing is fine as it is are wrong.

1. "MMOs are supposed to be time sinks!" You're ignoring the sheer insanity of the time sinks involved here. I know many people who play MMOs don't have jobs, families, or lives, but they should be able to prepare a meal, go to sleep, get some exercise, etc. without missing a stinking fish. You could spend hours sitting there doing nothing, putting all your focus into fishing, all day for a rare fish. And there's hundreds of those rare fish. You could waste *hundreds* of days trying to complete fishing. I don't care who you are, but this is not how you should be spending your time every day. Furthermore, it punishes you with a ton of lost time for a lapse in focus, or for a trigger finger on the wrong reel skill. It demands so much constant focus that I can't even talk to friends and FC members in the game chat while I'm doing it. That's insane! It is physically and mentally unhealthy. An MMO is best when you can pick it up, accomplish something, and put it down an hour or two later if you need to. You can't do that with fishing, or you could lose another whole day or two of time. That's a lot of days lost when tons of fish can do it!

2. "Stop ruining the thing I enjoy!" Look, if you enjoy it, more power to you. But objectively, fishing is an extremely shallow minigame that most people don't get the feeling of "fun" out of.

3. "Fishing is for the elite only!" When EA defended on Reddit the mentality of locking a desired goal behind an unreasonable amount of grind, they created the most downvoted comment in Reddit history. And XIV's fishing grind is way worse. And unlike Battlefront, you're not even grinding a fun and rewarding game! You're gonna give XIV a free pass? No. If you love something, you should want to see it improve.

4. "None of that matters because you don't even have to complete it!" I'm sorry, but completionism is almost the entire point of fishing. There's over a thousand fish. A few are for mats and items, but most aren't— especially not the rare fish. And *any* fish can be for leves or quests. Now, I'm the kind of completionist who got Vaan to 99 before even getting Penelo, back on PS2. I never felt frustrated or like I was wasting all my time, because there was steady progress and a fallback on muscle memory when things got RNG-grindy. I could watch a show or something without failing due to a lapse in focus. But none of that is true in XIV fishing— you have to hyper-focus on it and often to no reward for days.

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People, please respect the health and sanity of your fellow would-be fishers. And finally, if you people are calling OP a troll and their post "bait", then you seriously need to consider if you just defensively think that any complaint against something you like is "trolling". I see this toxic claim a lot. It's really infuriating when legit rational and meaningful complaints get shot down as "bait". Please stop.

Fishing has some hooked, others just find it to be a time sink. Some see the feedback around fishing as bait, or perhaps just trolling. The secret is to keep things fresh, and not get too salty.

The only thing id like changed in fishing is extra GP recovery skills or a higher GP restoration. Making us able to use more skills to get the desired fish. I'd also like Ocean fishing either to be every hour or a new Ocean fishing route maybe in one of the expansion areas. Oh and the fishing tackle box separate from inventory :P

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Fishing has some hooked, others just find it to be a time sink. Some see the feedback around fishing as bait, or perhaps just trolling. The secret is to keep things fresh, and not get too salty.

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Seeing way too many puns in this reply... smells fishy to me.

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Originally Posted by Lolli282

Why would you want to take the challenge out of the game? Getting the entire fishing log is supposed to be an achievement not a cake walk. I do agree on the bait box being separate from the inventory though. That would be amazing. As it is I keep my bait in my chocobo saddlebag.

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I guess only raids are the only content in this game that should ever get nerfed, unsync'd and made easier to catch up on. Handing out gear and mounts two patches later with less effort. Poor hardcore fishers their achievements are really in jeopardy by making old expansion fish easier to catch. /s

Why would you necrobump this post of all things

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

I guess only raids are the only content in this game that should ever get nerfed, unsync'd and made easier to catch up on. Handing out gear and mounts two patches later with less effort. Poor hardcore fishers their achievements are really in jeopardy by making old expansion fish easier to catch. /s

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Fishing is not raiding. Also PvP got never nerfed. Or the Hunt. Not everything has to lose it's value.

And the fish already are easier to catch. Back then we didn't have Patience, Mooch 2, Surface Slap, Identical Cast, Double and Triple Hook, Prize Catch, Makeshift Bait and Thaliaks Favor. Oh and Fish Eyes.

Also Gear. I remember when I had to use BiS Gear on every slot excet the Fishing Rod (because it was locked behind catching basically every Big Fsh) and had to use Food AND an FC Buff to reach the stat requirements to finish the Feast of Famine quest.


And what gear and mounts do want to have out of fishing? There is nothing locked behind it except some titles and shiny fishing rods. Just like ultimate raids.

If you want the bragging rights then put in the effort. There is nothing to brag about when it is easy to do.

would fishing really be enjoyable for more poeple or would it just turn into one more thing people can work through to finish it only to never touch it again afterwards if they would make it less time consuming?
there is not really much to gain in catching all fishes other than the accomplishement... which would turn worthless if its doable in a few hours

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

Why would you necrobump this post of all things

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Why would you reply to a necro bump that just keeps it on the front page?

Oh wait. . .

Spearfishing is a lot more fun than regular fishing as you don't have to take in all the fish you don't actually want.

But you are still ultimately at the mercy of the RNG as you can't force the fish you want to spawn in...

I'm going to assume this thread got necro'd in part because of the FishFest fan event two days ago? If not, hey, go check out some of the screenshots and videos from the community of in-game fishers.

And as someone who is working on completing their fishing log (I'm only missing Cinder Surprise, Lancetfish, Coral Manta, Placodus, and Hafgufa) and close to that Big Fish title - yes it is a time sink. The hours I've spent attest to that. And guess what - I don't raid. I don't do Savage or Ultimates, but I feel that Legendaries are my equivalent, with a similar amount of time sent aside for gearing up and buying the right consumables, plotting my optimal windows, and then yes, a lot of cursing(or thanking) RNG. It's a long-term goal and investment, but Soloable, same as going for the Necromancer title. The new big fish each patch are my new raid tiers. And I could complain about job reworks or lowering the skill floor, or talk about animation clipping to weave skills into a buff window, or fearfully anticipate what new devilment the sadistic dev designing this highend content will torment us with next (Tebqeyib Smelt for Spearfishing was an incredibly difficult but rewarding in its difficulty challenge and I fear the next Spearfishing challenge).

I fully expect the capstone skill for 7.0 to be Fish Eyes II, as that skill eliminates the time requirements for fish windows for any ARR, HW, or SB fish minus a few exceptions, so the next logical expansion is to expand it up to ShB.

Someone who did fishing before the introduction of Versatile Lure does not underestimate the sheer QoL improvement that single item is for fishing - it simplifies 90% of the class by being a substitute bait for all fish except the Legendaries (it can even catch some of the Big Fish, though again not optimal gameplay) - and again, going after legendary big fish is as optional to the job as Savage raiding is to combat classes. The questline to unlock them aren't in the job questline, none are needed for leves, custom deliveries, or tribal quests. In fact, as someone who has caught or spearfished almost every single fish in this game - you only bother with that if you are such a completionist that you want to fill out a 1600+ list of mostly useless items and if you are doing that then you kow you are signing up for a timesink and the point of it is the time sink and slow steady grind to that joy of filling those pages.

And Ocean Fishing - I'm 700,000 short of World-Class Troller and don't have the specialist shark/jellyfish/balloon titles, but I have my shark mount and all the minions - and the geat thing about Ocean Fishing is that it is the fastest way to level any job in XIV - fifteen minutes of effort in a causal group raid can take you from level 1 to 25 easily. And plenty of FSH enjoy Ocean Fishing while ignoring the rest of the job entirely.

I finally caught salad yesterday and finished my big fish title.



I still wouldn't change fishing at the high end. And I still stand by my statement that fishing is fine for people not going after the actual endgame aspect of catching big fish.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I finally caught salad yesterday and finished my big fish title.



I still wouldn't change fishing at the high end. And I still stand by my statement that fishing is fine for people not going after the actual endgame aspect of catching big fish.

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Congrats on Salad! I finally caught it Sunday evening, along with two other people at that window, and the days before at least four people at once got it.

And especially congrats on the title! To be honest, Big Fish and Necromancer are the two titles I respect above any of the Legends, because they are commitments without shortcuts.

I love fishing. I hate this notion that the game should respect your time in everything. We have SO many things in this game where you simply dedicate yourself a week or so and you'll get it, I don't know why letting people have something that gives them a longer goal and it's completely optional is such an issue.

I personally really enjoy the mini-game and the whole community that is built around it. I love how it gives me a reason to explores the maps and enjoy them as something more than just-a-background-for-the-story.

It's perhaps the only content in the game where I can feel proud by something accomplished at lvl 50, 60, 70, even though I'm a higher level. There's no sense that only the very newest content will keep you enganged and be actually hard, given how bad the sync is in this game. It's the closest to horizontal progression we got.

Hopefully it stays that way and for the entitled people that thinks anything that THEY don't enjoy doing MUST be changed to cather their particular need, you have the rest of the entire game for you. That should be enough. If you don't enjoy the act of fishing, you shouldn't want the rod regardless.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

I don't think that fishing in any game is meant to respect your time. Or in real life.

Like... have you ever been fishing in real life? I don't think any activity in existence could beat "sitting by the water for 8 hours straight waiting for a stick to wiggle" in terms of total time disrespected, barring maybe watching paint drying.

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Phrasing :D

No don't ruin Fishing. It is good as it is right now.
Even if some Fishes takes more time.
What I would like to see is the chance to make the really Hard to Catch Fishes into Throphies so we can hang them on a Wall.
And they should look like the orginal Fish and not just a 0815 Black / White Painting.

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Originally Posted by Mishen

What are some ideas you would implement to make fishing more enjoyable?

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Grab a cold one, sit back, relax, don't stress if you miss your window and have to try again another day.

Catching a fish isn't the same as walking up to a plant and picking a flower.

So I agree, but at the same time I also think everyone else has a point. I've never fished irl ever but I'm pretty sure you sit there and wait around for whoever knows how long. I don't know what else you could really do to keep both sides happy.

Also, I've never tried this out, and it doesn't make it a lot less RNG but isn't there a method setting up a timer to go off each time you cast your line, and knowing what fish bit by the amount of time and !s?

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Also, I've never tried this out, and it doesn't make it a lot less RNG but isn't there a method setting up a timer to go off each time you cast your line, and knowing what fish bit by the amount of time and !s?

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If you're fishing because you're just, fishing, yes, but specific fishies for achievments require certain combinations of skills/baits, are only allowed at certain times/weather that you have to keep track of, so it's not as simple as "click when !". So it's not always easy to actually just afk and wait for the timer.
IMO the solution already exists, you have other two other gathering classes that require none of this, none of the rng or mini game aspects and are normal clickers.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

If you're fishing because you're just, fishing, yes, but specific fishies for achievments require certain combinations of skills/baits, are only allowed at certain times/weather that you have to keep track of, so it's not as simple as "click when !". So it's not always easy to actually just afk and wait for the timer.
IMO the solution already exists, you have other two other gathering classes that require none of this, none of the rng or mini game aspects and are normal clickers.

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I didn't necessarily say it was that simple, but from what I'm aware, you can use the timer + !s, along with your weather to basically know if you hooked what you wanted to or not. It's still rng, but this means you have the option of not reeling in your catch and saving your buffs. It probably only matters for ocean fishing though.

Yep, the fishing community has complied the range of hook timers for every fish - there's a few seconds of range and some fish overlap so you won't know exactly which fish every time for every fish, but for example Ealad Skaan, that Legendary Big Fish from ShB mentioned earlier in the thread: it has the notoriously short window of only 90 seconds. If you use the 'Chum' skill on casts to speed up the time between cast and hook, then any !!! before 10 seconds after casting is Ealad Skaan (and the only other !!! fish at that spot is Fury, which is slightly longer. Which means that yes, have pulled in a Fury thinking it was Ealad because I messed up my timer). And the judical usage of Surface Slap and waiting for the right strength of pull at the right time is key to setting up the right conditions for the fish you want. Same with Spearfishing and knowing if the fish you're after is a fast or slow swimmer and which of the three sizes.

Or you can just reel in every tug if you're just fishing.

I think my only real complaint still with Big Fish now that we have things like Fish Eyes to help with timers (though I think it still doesn't work on all big fish, right?) is that they can still not bite in their windows. I feel if something is so specific where it will only have a window when one weather pattern changes to a certain other pattern, it should be guaranteed to bite in that window. Because outside of the time those weather pattern changes can still be days or weeks apart. And if it's at a time you sleep or work or otherwise aren't online then that makes it even more annoying when you do manage to catch a window and it never bites.

I can fish.. and I am at 90... but I have no home and no aquarium =-(

Help me, I'm poor =*(

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I can fish.. and I am at 90... but I have no home and no aquarium =-(

Help me, I'm poor =*(

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Apartments are there?

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Originally Posted by Melorie

I love fishing. I hate this notion that the game should respect your time in everything. We have SO many things in this game where you simply dedicate yourself a week or so and you'll get it, I don't know why letting people have something that gives them a longer goal and it's completely optional is such an issue.

I personally really enjoy the mini-game and the whole community that is built around it. I love how it gives me a reason to explores the maps and enjoy them as something more than just-a-background-for-the-story.

It's perhaps the only content in the game where I can feel proud by something accomplished at lvl 50, 60, 70, even though I'm a higher level. There's no sense that only the very newest content will keep you enganged and be actually hard, given how bad the sync is in this game. It's the closest to horizontal progression we got.

Hopefully it stays that way and for the entitled people that thinks anything that THEY don't enjoy doing MUST be changed to cather their particular need, you have the rest of the entire game for you. That should be enough. If you don't enjoy the act of fishing, you shouldn't want the rod regardless.

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This isn't a Korean MMO and things should have insane timers (once a month at 2 am) or requirements. I feel the same about the achievements that require 2000 / 5000 A rank, S rank kills.

There's a reason I don't play those kind of games. I play to de-stress, not have a second job.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This isn't a Korean MMO and things should have insane timers (once a month at 2 am) or requirements. I feel the same about the achievements that require 2000 / 5000 A rank, S rank kills.

There's a reason I don't play those kind of games. I play to de-stress, not have a second job.

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Well, you have rest of the entire game available for you. Having one content with a bit of rng and timers shouldn't matter. And even inside fishing, how many fishies are actually that difficult?
You can't despise grind and still want to be a completionist. You either chose one or the other. There's plenty of achievments and content that's fairly grindless to get.

And there's nothing stressful about fishing? It's THE most relaxing activity of the game, it's just not made for anxious brats.
Besides, many people play grinding games because they find grind in general relaxing. Not because they treat it as a second job.

Are some of the fish windows ridiculous? yes. It took me over a year of trying to get Stethy and Aquamaton. Ealad and Lancet I only got today/a few days ago in part because I wasn't trying to catch the windows of opportunity for more than a year because the sheer hurdle of their requirements meant that I didn't want to stress over trying to ctach them until they were practically the last fish on my list. But, I did catch them - and I know people who got their Big Fish title in less than five months of effort. And I'm glad that Legendary Fishing has been simplified and nerfed thanks to various skills (and ARR zones having flying available). And as said, I hope the next expansion expands Fish Eyes to ShB and maybe even EW - I'd prefer it not to work for the current expansion as to keep the challenge, but it is a skill that allows something similar to running old content unsynced.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

This isn't a Korean MMO and things should have insane timers (once a month at 2 am) or requirements. I feel the same about the achievements that require 2000 / 5000 A rank, S rank kills.

There's a reason I don't play those kind of games. I play to de-stress, not have a second job.

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So what? Not everybody likes everything, which is why the game has such a wide variety of content in the first place.

Big Fishing isn't a vital progression system that everyone is required to take part in whether they like it or not. It's a completely optional side activity designed specifically to appeal to the people who like that type of grind. The fact that you're not the target audience doesn't make it bad.

I've never enjoyed fishing in any game...or real life so I'm a bit bias but I don't think it was designed to respect your time. It's meant to be hard, a grind, and RNG based...

Kinda like in real life.

I wish it was like Miner, u go to your spot and you know what you're gonna get.

That's why I chose Miner as my Gatherer of choice, also because mining is a huge part of our Industry & Culture here in the Appalachian Mountains.

But fishing is big here to.