why has Role Playing in battle become a thing

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

in my OP I asked for those that disagreed with me to tell me why. some of you gave some really good answers. others acted like I'm acting like an entitled baby. those of you who did this should be ashamed of yourselves but people like you usually never get it. my OP was a complaint based on an opinion that I am very much entitled to just as you are entitled to believe this is good content that you enjoy.
if you enjoy the role playing(playing as other NPCs) I'm happy for you but that does not give you the right to belittle my opinion of it. especially since I asked for your opinions of the aspect of the game not your opinions of my opinion. but alas there will always be trolls that don't understand the purpose of a thread and will act like they are all high and mighty. when I come to these forums I try not to get nasty but some of you really make that difficult.



I was not calling those who disagree with me trolls.

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Actrually does give the right to belittle it its a rpg, if thats rlly your opinion go play a stupid fps lol not a rpg, your kind are why rpgs are being killed this days from the glory days if breath of fire and legend of dragoon

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Actruallit does give the right to belittle it its a rpg, if thats rlly your opinion go play a stupid fps lol not a rpg

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Yes this is an RPG but it's fair to dislike an aspect of an RPG, especially when an RPG makes you control another character in which there are no real role playing elements. No choices to make, no classes to choose form, everything's on a script and you have a super simplified set of ablities to use.

Now are these RP battles a huge issue? No, they're used infrequently enough that they're generally a mild annoyance at worst, but that doesn't mean they're above criticism just because the game is an rpg. It's not like perspective flips are unique to rpgs anyway, shooters etc can also use the trope.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

guess I should have figured I would be outnumbered and you all give some compelling arguments. but I would rather just watch them in a cutscene than play them. maybe my time playing this game is nearing the end since I see that you all are having fun with it and I'm not.

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Oh don't be so overly dramatic. Playing as another character for short easy fights isn't the end of the worlds

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Originally Posted by StormyFae

Actrually does give the right to belittle it its a rpg, if thats rlly your opinion go play a stupid fps lol not a rpg, your kind are why rpgs are being killed this days from the glory days if breath of fire and legend of dragoon

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thank you for trying to blame me, someone who has stuck with PSO(when it was available)FFXI, FFXIV, and PSO2 for killing your precious RPGs that I have never once complained about. this game is an MMO that happens to have RPG elements not an RPG. there is a massive difference. I do not play first person shooters but, thanks for believing because I have an opinion on an element I don't like in this MMO that I like fps games. I hate people who assume because I have a stance on something it is stupid and not worthy.
It is people like you that make people leave games because you believe your opinion must be the truth and nobody can disagree with it.

thank you for trolling this thread.

I'd like a few more difficulty options added:
<Normal>
<Easy>
<Very Easy>
<I need more help>
<Bring up to 3 friends>

Semi-serious and humor at the same time because Very Easy does not feel easy enough at times. Having to repeat several of these fights multiple times takes the fun out of the encounter. I went from excited to please make the pain stop. Not exactly how I want to end the expansion for 6 months.

I liked the RP battles better than the usual ones we've gotten. The mechanics were a bit better thought out in terms of how the abilities functioned, compared to the usual more simplistic RP fights, in a way that didn't overwhelm someone not familiar with the job they were thrown into so long as you read ability descriptions.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I'd like a few more difficulty options added:
<Normal>
<Easy>
<Very Easy>
<I need more help>
<Bring up to 3 friends>

Semi-serious and humor at the same time because Very Easy does not feel easy enough at times. Having to repeat several of these fights multiple times takes the fun out of the encounter. I went from excited to please make the pain stop. Not exactly how I want to end the expansion for 6 months.

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maybe if I had worded my OP like this some of you might understand why I do not like the Role Playing fights in this game.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

thank you for trying to blame me, someone who has stuck with PSO(when it was available)FFXI, FFXIV, and PSO2 for killing your precious RPGs that I have never once complained about. this game is an MMO that happens to have RPG elements not an RPG. there is a massive difference. I do not play first person shooters but, thanks for believing because I have an opinion on an element I don't like in this MMO that I like fps games. I hate people who assume because I have a stance on something it is stupid and not worthy.
It is people like you that make people leave games because you believe your opinion must be the truth and nobody can disagree with it.

thank you for trolling this thread.

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Thats incorrert its a rpg 1st that happans to have multiplater aspects, mmo isn't agenre its a type that cant stand alone lol always have to add a fps rpg, jrpg,surival etc.. Also pso2 is a prime example its ruined from the original..

Sincu cant have mmo alone it not a genre should never be put over the real games genre in this case its rpg

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I'd like a few more difficulty options added:
<Normal>
<Easy>
<Very Easy>
<I need more help>
<Bring up to 3 friends>

Semi-serious and humor at the same time because Very Easy does not feel easy enough at times. Having to repeat several of these fights multiple times takes the fun out of the encounter. I went from excited to please make the pain stop. Not exactly how I want to end the expansion for 6 months.

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How do you even need easy? Normal is nearly brain dead as it is

Instead of a cutscene, we get to experience it. People really love to complain about everything.

I found it kinda cool, visually, but I found it jarring and annoying to actually play. I hope they don't do it too often in endwalker.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

guess I should have figured I would be outnumbered and you all give some compelling arguments. but I would rather just watch them in a cutscene than play them. maybe my time playing this game is nearing the end since I see that you all are having fun with it and I'm not.

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Over the past 3 years we've had like 5 RP battles, with only one of them lasting more than 10 minutes.. This is enough to ruin your enjoyment of the entire game? All of the content you used to like, which is still there and quite abundant, just suddenly doesn't matter any more? I'm not sure I believe this is a genuine sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Instead of a cutscene, we get to experience it. People really love to complain about everything.

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some of us would rather just have the cutscene, if you enjoy the experience that's great.

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Originally Posted by MarsAstro

Over the past 3 years we've had like 5 RP battles, with only one of them lasting more than 10 minutes.. This is enough to ruin your enjoyment of the entire game? All of the content you used to like, which is still there and quite abundant, just suddenly doesn't matter any more? I'm not sure I believe this is a genuine sentiment.

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they are a source of frustration, all it take to fail these is a single screw up even on easy mode. at least with a cutscene you can watch or skip it. you cannot do that with the role play battles.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

How do you even need easy? Normal is nearly brain dead as it is

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I only died in normal once this last fight, and that was because I did a dumb thing and stood in that oneshot aoe during Alisaie’s fight. The fights were easy and they literally told you what to do.

They should make all scenes unskipable story based game anyways including cutscenes

I like it. I like to be surprised by new things like this. It keeps things new and fresh and I hope Endwalker injects surprise mechanics like these too.

I wouldn't mind these segments if they weren't so long and boring. The target always feels like a damage sponge.

Mechanics shouldn't go through several cycles in an encounter like this. If you don't think the fight is long enough without cycling then add more mechanics to it.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

okay so I waited to complain about this(yes this is a complaint)
I pay a monthly fee to play MY character yet through the MSQ I'm being forced to roleplay NPCs.
I do not find this the least bit fun or even a tiny bit enjoyable. I feel like it breaks the immersion for me.
At first I let it go but this is ridiculous. it is making me seriously reconsider whether I'm even going to buy endwalker at all let alone resub.

do any of you agree with me? if you do please like my post, if not please tell me why you enjoy it.
also please keep this thread civil. too many flaming arguments happen on these forums and I would rather this not be one of them.

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You're going to get people split on whether or not they like it.

My FC is fairly evenly split. Some like it, some don't, some don't care either way.

I'm part of the "don't" group. I'm here to play a character I created, not someone else's favorite character. It's why there are a lot of RPGs I won't touch - I'm not interested in playing a stock NPC.

You're 100% correct - it breaks immersion to suddenly not be your own character. It doesn't even advance the story in a way that's more meaningful than just watching it happen in a cutscene.

I do not like that the NPC jobs play differently from the player character jobs. I especially do not like that I cannot reassign the keybinds and have to use a developer's favorite keybind layout instead instead of what I prefer when I'm playing the related job. I set certain types of abilities to certain keybinds because that's what works for me. When i'm stuck trying to remember what someone else had decided the keybinds should be, I'm not playing efficiently because I'm stuck back staring at the UI trying to remember instead of watching what's happening in the fight.

It might be a relatively rare occurence but it's still very annoying to have to deal with. The only other thing I can thing of that's even more annoying are those stupid Active Time Maneuvers. I do not understand why they think that is interesting game play.

I don't mind it on a conceptual level, but they're poorly in a couple of ways:

1)dumping all of the abilities onto hotbar 1 with no way of moving them is BEYOND aggravating. That's not how everyone's control scheme is set up.

2)Friendly characters who are in a fight with you won't be in your party list which is terrible when you're expected to heal them.

At least the ones in the last quest didn't really have any major gotcha moments like some of the earlier ShB ones where 10 minutes into the fight it all of a sudden gave you a one hit death mechanic.

I think my biggest issue with them, though, is the toolkit you're forced to use. I mean, I'm literally running the quest as a level 80 Red Mage. When you make me play as Alissae you don't need to give me a gimped hotbar. Just let me use my own. Same as with Urianger. I have a level 80 AST, just let me use that. I get that some characters like Graha have special actions but you can just put those on screen as special action buttons outside of the hotbar.

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Originally Posted by Hausti

You mean people like this?



Comparing solo games with scripted characters to an mmo with a character editor.
Sure. Not trolling at all.

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Its still true and doesn't change the fact. When you play the main story, you do play a scripted single player game.
And all I see is, people complain but nobody offers good critism. It's always the same with this forum. People will complain until its gone and then ask for a "change", "new refreshing content/xyz".
We've seen it all and it's always the same. Instead of just dealing with it, you come here complaining as if it took you a huge lifespan. At some point this whole debate can't be taken serious and it slowly reaches that point. Why? Because everytime someone is showing their dislike, all they do is complain but never offer solutions.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Its still true and doesn't change the fact. When you play the main story, you do play a scripted single player game.

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With a character that you yourself created, together with the skills set in the order that works for you the most.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

And all I see is, people complain but nobody offers good critism. It's always the same with this forum. People will complain until its gone and then ask for a "change", "new refreshing content/xyz".
We've seen it all and it's always the same. Instead of just dealing with it, you come here complaining as if it took you a huge lifespan. At some point this whole debate can't be taken serious and it slowly reaches that point. Why? Because everytime someone is showing their dislike, all they do is complain but never offer solutions.

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Complains can help improving the game. Like remember that time when Square thought it was a good idea to only let people greed in one of the stormblood 24 man raids?

Because with MSQ they're trying to make it increasingly more like an offline FF than a MMO.

I mean, that's what you want, right? To pay a sub to play a single-player FF with random forced online multiplayer required to make it to Shadowbringers. It has to be, given how successful ShB was and what the designers are doing with it.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Because with MSQ they're trying to make it increasingly more like an offline FF than a MMO.

I mean, that's what you want, right? To pay a sub to play a single-player FF with random forced online multiplayer required to make it to Shadowbringers. It has to be, given how successful ShB was and what the designers are doing with it.

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For the story, yes gladly.. The only purpose a mmo has is for social setting, rp with ppl environment.. The rest of it is minor annoyance, even when i played d2 i played alone, however it was nice to talk to ppl.. Which is the only purpose of a mmo, yes id rather all combat, story content to be soloable, to were it was OUR choice to play with others, not this forced bs..

As for skill system in rp content within story, you would only have a point if WE had custom abilitys, and could mod our rotation that requires brain power, news flash it doesn't your rotation is so basic a monkey could enter it, we have no talent,n customization on jobs which make it worthless point there.

I personally enjoy the feature.

It lets us to experience events we aren't present at in a more interactive way rather than just watching a long cut scene, and I feel more invested in these characters thanks to this. Plus it doesn't even happen that often really.

I don't mind it personally but I can see how it can be frustrating. I definitely don't like how the hotbars are set up, as others have mentioned. I don't like how I have to pull up the virtual mouse to see what the moves actually are on PS4/5 because they're usually reskinned moves. I have a button rotation I prefer that feels comfortable and none of these battles are set up to allow it.

Like yeah, they're balanced around having only those moves but it can be stressful especially if it's a role you're not familiar with, and I can see how, even if there's only a handful of these types of battles, they can demotivate someone from continued playing.

What I will say, though, is going after people because you think the content is easy as it is or because you had very few issues helps nobody. Everyone has different skill levels and if someone struggles with something you breezed through doesn't make them any lesser of a player or a person because of it. I would definitely prefer if there was at least a way to set up the hotbar ahead of time so you can more easily see what the moves are, if not allowing us to just use our own hotbars entirely.

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Originally Posted by Hausti

With a character that you yourself created, together with the skills set in the order that works for you the most.



Complains can help improving the game. Like remember that time when Square thought it was a good idea to only let people greed in one of the stormblood 24 man raids?

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That would be constructive feedback. As in, not only voicing your dislikes, but also offering a solution to make things better. I dont see people doing that in here. Not even in the opening of this thread. So please, don't try to justify boneless complains.

In hate the system.

Neutered jobs and braindead fights.

No offense to healers, but if I wanted to play a job in the MSQ to spam 1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,2,1,1.... Well I would do MSQ on healer.

They tell you to show and not tell... Honestly I'd rather then tell me if the showing is that boring.

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Originally Posted by Thi

In hate the system.

Neutered jobs and braindead fights.

No offense to healers, but if I wanted to play a job in the MSQ to spam 1,2,1,1,1,1,1,1,3,1,1,1,1,1,1,4,1,1,1,1,2,1,1.... Well I would do MSQ on healer.

They tell you to show and not tell... Honestly I'd rather then tell me if the showing is that boring.

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Dps its the same thing as is tank lol and almost the entire game is brain dead gameplay, just instead of 11123111 its always 1234 hit a gcd move 1234 cd guage rdy hit a move and spam the same brain dead combo lol if anything npc gameplay requires some thought instead zoning out and being fine all the time like 98% of the game

I love it.

In my mind Urianger is my husband and no one can change my mind :P

I don't mind it since it is like 1% or less of the whole content that I do and I already stare my character all day
And if people are struggling with NPCs stuff or do not like, just do Very Easy and there you go.

Also even without being a NPC it would not matter, most of single player duties are brainless so not much of a difference

What your missing there is things like aligning buffs with gcd windows, job guage resource management, weaving ogcds, etc.

As for the fights, I agree that the MSQ fights are easy to zone out in. They should be harder. If you can't perform even a somewhat decent rotation you shouldn't have enough dps to clear.

As for constructive criticism on these roleplay battles. If we are forced to have to do them, they should teach players a lesson on how those jobs work and have an enrage timer that would trigger if the player was not performing the lesson taught. ie, on Alisaie if you do not perform x amount of melee combos and finishers over the course of the fight you won't have enough potency to clear. Or if the Graha fight required Enochian uptime, and became harder to clear each time you dropped it because of enrage.

job guage hardly needs management since they build off the same brain dead combo almost all jobs you do the same 1-2-3 combo to build it then u hit 1 button as 100 is typically the max u can build you can only use two thats nothing, and weaving the ogcd is just adding a 4 to the spam its rather simple lol im not missing that its just not that "skill required or brain power required" as you think it is you could do blind folded with one hand while paying attention to netflix or something its so pathicly stupid game play lol

Personally, I like them. That way I don’t have to whip out the Echo to find out what happened to people closest to our character. Though in fairness, one could consider it like an Echo. They’remactually telling you what happened later to trigger the Echo, but they put these Echos in the place they’re meant.

You are welcome to your opinion though, I’ll respect that. We all have something we greatly dislike.

It's almost as if the game is an MMORPG.

:thinking:

I actually quite like the RP fights because I think it's neat being one of the NPCs that you see all the time and help you out with. There are a few I thought were annoying (Estenin's one was in particular) but otherwise a neat idea.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

Ah forgot Estinien.

And who else did Hien's part before they changed it to make it easier? I sure did. That was brutal.

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Wait, they nerfed it? Playing as Hien was fine for me but going back to AST afterwards I did fail once. The battle wasn't that hard to be honest (from my perspective). I was just surprised it changed form Hien to us and totally zoned out. But if I remember correctly this is where they began to give you an "easy" option after failing these solo instances. I did the easy option on an ALT and it was trivial to the max. No need to dodge anything and the enemy is no longer an HP sponge. Kinda took the fun out of it. But it you're in a hurry to get through it, it works just fine. Or if you struggle I guess as well.

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And a point to OP. I understand your frustration even though I'm not bothered by these RP sessions. When they first implemented it I thought it was amazing. These things are essentially playable cut scenes. So instead of just reading and getting 3-5 frames of action you actually see the whole thing through. Just be happy that they are short and happened not too often. And if you really dislike them - fail and choose the "easy mode" to get through it faster. Otherwise just play it through and move on.

I dont mind it, what bothered me a lot in 5.55 was there were new abilities and they had this one button combo thing. The new abilities didn't bother me but if ff14 goes in the direction of ff15 1 button combo mash I will unsub.

I love it, and if you're worried about the immersion idea, just consider it another manifestation of the Echo. So you can think of this as all your player still seeing and experiencing this through a memory or such. Yeah, the Echo hasn't been shown to do that, but that could be one way to just headcanon it.

I only had an issue with such battles when they were limited to three buttons and the enemies were damage sponges. The faster paced battles with more buttons to press have been a lot more enjoyable to me.

Besides, it's nice to not have every victory ever revolve around the player character. I don't play the game to sate my ego, after all.