Garuda Weapons are weaker than Mog!!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

No because faster hits means more TP, higher accuracy means less misses, It's impossible to tell without parsing it properly.

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come on jinko faster hits means less tp per hit.....

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Originally Posted by Rokien

lower delay weapons also wield lower tp per hit. It should equal to about the same.

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That it does, though theoretically if the delay was low enough you could auto attack between weapon skills adding to your overall dps. But then again this is all theorymon, point is its equal to ifrit but a different style. It emphasizes speed and criticals over raw damage per hit.

Well, at least we can all agree they beat the moogle weapons. =p

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Or I could do what I did and check, and I found said pictures were true. Idk why you're trying to start an argument with me lol. Bored?

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i'm bored XD

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

i'm bored XD

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I knew it! Lol i'd play but im too tired by now...I just want servers to come up and allieve my boredom

The damage stat of the weapon also determines your attribute caps, so these looks like garbage, to be honest. The faster attack rate doesn't give more TP and it definitely hurts your WS damage a ton. Besides, even if they were TP building machines, cooldowns on your most powerful WS means you may not get as much out of them as you'd like.

Also, I find it hilarious that they still haven't put any healing related stats on a CNJ/WHM primal drop.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Gurada weapon will grant more TP per second which means more weapon skills though.

If you miss with a slow weapon you also take a bigger penalty to DPS, although its probably not a big enough one to make a difference lol.

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damage on that wep is still to low mnk never runs out of tp as is spinning heel and invig is enough.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Also, I find it hilarious that they still haven't put any healing related stats on a CNJ/WHM primal drop.

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Yea I was disappointed with this, CNJ weapon just looks like another trophy .. I mean Wind potency .. I think someone forget to tell SE CNJ/WHM is a healer.

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Originally Posted by Firon

damage on that wep is still to low mnk never runs out of tp as is spinning heel and invig is enough.

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Fair enough lets see what you get on the parser :D
Lets hope it don't take as long for you to get Garuda Fist though or we could be waiting a while.

You can't really WS more with a good rotation because of timers on most DoW jobs, so that doesn't make up for lower damage rating despite better DPS that doesn't take weaponskills into account.

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Originally Posted by Frein

The damage stat of the weapon also determines your attribute caps, so these looks like garbage, to be honest. The faster attack rate doesn't give more TP and it definitely hurts your WS damage a ton. Besides, even if they were TP building machines, cooldowns on your most powerful WS means you may not get as much out of them as you'd like.

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I'm going the wager the dev team knows more than you do, and thus they aren't garbage as compared to other options. Thats just a wager though, feel free to disagree with my theory.

arc/brd got shafted hard on garuda weapons lol, dunno why other jobs only lose a little base damage compared to ifrits but they lose 31 base damage.

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Originally Posted by Treach

arc/brd got shafted hard on garuda weapons lol, dunno why other jobs only lose a little base damage compared to ifrits but they lose 31 base damage.

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Cuz they have arrows

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I'm going the wager the dev team knows more than you do, and thus they aren't garbage as compared to other options. Thats just a wager though, feel free to disagree with my theory.

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Frein is actually right though, no need to wager.

garuda better hurrrrrrrr

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

Cuz they have arrows

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Ifrits bow 102 base damage, garudas bow 71 base damage.

Arrows work for both bows.

herpaderp.

Keep in mind that i dont intend to Disgrace Garuda weapons i only put "Garuda Weapons are weaker than mogs" cuz i want to get ur attention
Have fun and btw
thous Hippogryph Equipments Are Smexy!!

Herpa Derpa DERP - Lalafell

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Originally Posted by Treach

Ifrits bow 102 base damage, garudas bow 71 base damage.

Arrows work for both bows.

herpaderp.

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Grrr u got me :P

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

thous Hippogryph Equipments Are Smexy!!

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Too bad they aren't in this patch :D

At least no recipes on the lodestone for them.

Oh and Yes PLEASE!!! whoever comes with garuda strategy please keep in mind thous jobs "PLD,DRG,MNK"

So the real question is... Anyone ever calculated what %total damage comes from auto-attack?

With all the combos my guess would be that its probably under 30%, which would give a big advantage to base damage over delay since WS are not affected by delay

And TP gain is affected by DPS, not delay, so a 2% potential (considering that TP is not only gained from auto-attack, but also from damage taken and several abilities) difference in TP gain from higher DPS does not seem much

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Too bad they aren't in this patch :D

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They are in the Dats and Look Smexy!!

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Originally Posted by Treach

Frein is actually right though, no need to wager.

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And you know this how? I'm assuming you parsed Garuda weapons with appropriate equipment. Oh you haven't? Lol.

I'll repeat: dev team knows more than you do. Do you really think Garuda weapons would be unquestionably inferior to Ifrit weapons? There's more than one way to play. Damage per hit is the not the only way. Try testing first with different setups and then come to that conclusion. Until then its the usual hot air that blows around on forums because players think themselves smarter than the development team.

What I don't understand in why the paladin in the vid is running around when Garuda has a knockback skill instead of staying on the edge of the battlefield like with Ifrit's...

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Lower Damage + Faster Attacking= High Damage +Slow Attacking

Also Faster attacking= More TP gain= More WS

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holy crap, this is genius. you will be able to pull off more combos! thats my sell point right there

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

And you know this how? I'm assuming your parsed Garuda weapons with appropriate equipment. Oh you haven't? Lol.

I'll repeat: dev team knows more than you do. Do you really think Garuda weapons would be unquestionably inferior to Ifrit weapons? There's more than one way to play. Damage per hit is the not the only way. Try testing first with different setups and then come to that conclusion. Until then its the usual hot air that blows around on forums because players think themselves smarter than the development team.

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Math is hard I hear, not going to argue with you cause I've seen the things you post, no common sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I'll repeat: dev team knows more than you do. Do you really think Garuda weapons would be unquestionably inferior to Ifrit weapons? There's more than one way to play. Damage per hit is the not the only way. Try testing first with different setups and then come to that conclusion. Until then its the usual hot air that blows around on forums because players think themselves smarter than the development team.

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I'll take this bet any day of the week. The only thing, as far as I can see, that could save the Garuda weapons is if the wind damage proc is insane. You have far too much faith in the dev team always knowing what they're doing. Here's a pro tip: They don't.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

What I don't understand in why the paladin in the vid is running around when Garuda has a knockback skill instead of staying on the edge of the battlefield like with Ifrit's...

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or why they took a pld instead of a war

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Originally Posted by Frein

I'll take this bet any day of the week. The only thing, as far as I can see, that could save the Garuda weapons is if the wind damage proc is insane. You have far too much faith in the dev team always knowing what they're doing. Here's a pro tip: They don't.

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Chances are they still know more than you though, :D

like someone already mentioned , its all about builds, brute power vs speed % precision, builds arent just weapons ofcourse, consider armor slots , accessories, materia , even cross class abilities in some cases. question for all you min/max dorks will be, can you use garuda's low delay + other stat, to build a speed build that trumps current ifrit brute power builds? acc/store tp materia will be part of speed/precision build , obviously.

personally i dont give a shite if speed build doesnt overtake power build, i predict it wont, as long as its viable.
if anything it might come down to class/job, i can see it working out for MNKs .

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Chances are they still know more than you though, :D

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All of them? Even the item design team? I doubt it.

@Fionlagh The thing is the difference wont' be enough to matter, perhaps prior to getting a strategy down every little last scrap of DPS will matter but in a few weeks when we all have this on farm it wouldn't even matter if 1 person is standing in the back twiddling their thumbs.

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Originally Posted by Treach

Ifrits bow 102 base damage, garudas bow 71 base damage.

Arrows work for both bows.

herpaderp.

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using cobalt arrows (56 Damage) for the DPS calculation, (based on patch notes):

Mischievous Mogbow: (100+56)/4.2=37DPS
156/4.2
37.14
Ifrit's Bow: (102+56)/4.3 = 37DPS
158/4.3
36.74
Guarda's Spine: (71+56)/3.1=41DPS
127/3.1
40.96

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Originally Posted by Frein

I'll take this bet any day of the week. The only thing, as far as I can see, that could save the Garuda weapons is if the wind damage proc is insane. You have far too much faith in the dev team always knowing what they're doing. Here's a pro tip: They don't.

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You think they don't, it could just be that *we* the players dont know what we are doing. Its common practice in games to accept one way of playing, and refuse to see viable alternatives. If a dev balances things around these viable alternatives as well, we will conclude that "they dont know what they are doing".

Its not really a hard thing to understand. *If* you can ws more often with Garuda, it will make up for lower DPH. Also some skills have a very low cooldown, so the added tp can be more beneficial than you think. You are thinking in terms of your current playstyle. Learn to think outside the box and see other possibilities. SE keeps giving these to us but players are obsessed more with the size of numbers than the subtle things like dps. Its not always the size of the number, but how often you dish numbers out.

Again, *if* tp gain does prove superior with lower delay, then it stands to reason Garuda is a viable sidegrade that emphasizes attack speed over raw attack power.

I'd rather have the attack speed buff over the higher raw power, honestly.

Not to mention that on a purely shallow level Garuda's MNK weapon looks way cooler than Ifrit's, IMO.

Someone send out the bat signal for kaeko so he can explain again for like the 100th time why base damage is more important then delay.

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Oh and Yes PLEASE!!! whoever comes with garuda strategy please keep in mind thous jobs "PLD,DRG,MNK"

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PLD,MNK,DRG yes please.

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Originally Posted by Treach

Someone send out the bat signal for kaeko so he can explain again for like the 100th time why base damage is more important then delay.

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Correct me if im wrong, but we've never had weapons with a delay this low so....any prior research is rendered invalid in light of the fact the game has just changed.

I suggest you learn to accept this.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

using cobalt arrows (48 Damage) for the DPS calculation, (based on patch notes):

Mischievous Mogbow: (100+48)/4.2=35DPS
148/4.2
35.23
Ifrit's Bow: (102+48)/4.3 = 35DPS
150/4.3
34.88
Guarda's Spine: (71+48)/3.1=38DPS
119/3.1
38.38

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Problem is that archer does not have auto-attack so you rarely actually attack at that rate (and it will cost more arrows per unit of damage lol)

Anyway, regardless of stats, the idea behind is also to give a "personality" to those different weapons, which corresponds to the primal we get them from. This includes look, different stats bonus, and different trade-offs.

It totally makes sense that Garuda weapons are quicker and have higher DPS, but the trade-off is lower WS damage. It remains to be seen what the overall damage will be, but the primal weapons were presumably designed to be overall nearly equally strong.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Correct me if im wrong, but we've never had weapons with a delay this low so....any prior research is rendered invalid in light of the fact the game has just changed.

I suggest you learn to accept this.

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"Delay makes no difference when compared to base damage."

"But dis delay is lower den all da udderz."