Reaper expectations

Executes are less about skill than they are about flavor. Why does NIN's Mug ability give you additional items if you use it as a finishing blow?

What if your avatar form functioned like a mount outside of combat? It would have no impact on min-maxing, but it would be fun.

Multiple posters in this thread have pointed out what the stock formula for melee dps is. I would rather see them take a bunch of impractical ideas that we haven't seen in game yet and try to make them work, than to see them start with the template and then try to make the job feel different from dragoon.

Yeah I agree I'd rather have something fresh as opposed to something I already have with a different coat of paint.

Oh I'm not saying they shouldn't put an execute on RPR or something, I just personally think it's better used in other forms of content I wouldn't complain about Reaper unless it's like broken at launch or something but they've been pretty good at making decent jobs at release

Reaper was a given at launch but one thing I didnt expect was it was a "pet" job similar vein to MCH which immediately scared me due to MCH having its own issues that the fans keep praising. Not only does it need to deal with positionals but also have synergy with its voidling which MCH doesnt even have are barley has any compared to its older incarnations. Looking at GNB and DNC I can already assume itll have small amount of skills, being safe and unthreatening, play horribly due to starting at what 70 or up until 70, have lots and lots of filler skills (Scorch/BioII/Heated rotation) and just guessing that the void pet will be as token as the queen or living shadow that is to say glorified dot or just a skill you occasionally press. Im excited to see if im proven wrong though.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Reaper was a given at launch but one thing I didnt expect was it was a "pet" job similar vein to MCH which immediately scared me due to MCH having its own issues that the fans keep praising. Not only does it need to deal with positionals but also have synergy with its voidling which MCH doesnt even have are barley has any compared to its older incarnations. Looking at GNB and DNC I can already assume itll have small amount of skills, being safe and unthreatening, play horribly due to starting at what 70 or up until 70, have lots and lots of filler skills (Scorch/BioII/Heated rotation) and just guessing that the void pet will be as token as the queen or living shadow that is to say glorified dot or just a skill you occasionally press. Im excited to see if im proven wrong though.

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They have stated it's not a pet job.

It's likely to be a resource-based oGCD that builds up your transformation meter. The Gamer Japan interview that was translated on reddit states that the Avatar's (blobfang minion) appearance also changes as your meter fills.

During the reveal, they show your Avatar's attack animation on its own initially, and later when weaved with what seems like your main combo.

Only thing I see out of that interview regarding anything changing is player appearance upon transformation and that it'll differ slightly based on player race. There is nothing in there that says the demon changes appearance as your meter builds. The devs comments about multiple different demon models were really clear that they had to settle on one design and that they can't have multiple demons out at once due to system limitations.

Primarily because of Alliance Raids and places like Eureka/Bozja having a lot of players and the game can't handle that many models.

Plus it's very clear the demon is limited to oGCD and burst mode appearances unlike the pet/minion natures of SMN/MCH/DRK.

All Yoshi has really given clarity on is that it very much is going to be a builder spender job. Which will be different from Dragoon's gauge maintaining aspect.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

All Yoshi has really given clarity on is that it very much is going to be a builder spender job. Which will be different from Dragoon's gauge maintaining aspect.

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And out of the melee DPS, this makes it the most unique - at least, as far as we know. DRG and NIN maintain their gauges, MNK has a much simpler form of a gauge and doesn't quite count, and SAM builds gauge but spends it much more consistently, and more on a skill-by-skill basis.

If anything, the nature of building and spending like that sounds a lot closer to RDM, where it works just fine.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

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"Eventually, I decided there should be an additional avatar/minion fighting for the player and its appearance will change as the special meter fills up."

Everything is subject to change, obviously, but Yoshi-p explicitly states this in the interview. You're right in that the Avatar seems to be functionally just a set of oGCDs, much like Edge/Flood of Shadow are presently on DRK.

How will your Avatar change as your meter fills? Well, he also states:

"When someone suggested a Chūnibyō-ish idea: a job where its power gets increasingly more intense as the battle goes on - the idea was immediately agreed by the whole team."

I suspect that the Avatar will become progressively more menacing and edgier as you build meter, until it takes over you and possesses you.

I probably will not be touching reaper, because I do not have the inventory space to do it. Instead I'll be trying sage, because that already shares gear with some of my jobs. Makes me sad, because I really wanted to try it, but I will have no room to hold anything if I do.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I probably will not be touching reaper, because I do not have the inventory space to do it. Instead I'll be trying sage, because that already shares gear with some of my jobs. Makes me sad, because I really wanted to try it, but I will have no room to hold anything if I do.

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They're removing belts from the game and re-allocating the armory space to your other slots. They've somewhat anticipated the fact that adding more jobs has to be supported with more armory slots. Shouldn't be a problem, unless you're compulsively hoarding WHM canes.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I probably will not be touching reaper, because I do not have the inventory space to do it. Instead I'll be trying sage, because that already shares gear with some of my jobs. Makes me sad, because I really wanted to try it, but I will have no room to hold anything if I do.

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not really sure why you would have this problem. my weapon inventory is the only one that is even close to capped out and i still have 7 slots open on it. the other ones are still are not even half full. if you mean leveling, the trick to that is to level things that share gear first. like if you lvl dnc first. then lvl brd mch and then nin next since they share the same gear.

I'm using Chocobo saddlebags to have leveling sets for Reaper. The removal of belts for more slots is going to make it much easier to have multiple sets for jobs.

72-80 to be precise. The introductory quest for the jobs is very likely going to give you starting gear specific to that class.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I'm using Chocobo saddlebags to have leveling sets for Reaper. The removal of belts for more slots is going to make it much easier to have multiple sets for jobs.

72-80 to be precise. The introductory quest for the jobs is very likely going to give you starting gear specific to that class.

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Depending on where you intend to level 72-80, intermediate sets should not even be necessary. Unless you have a tank and healer on hand to chain dungeons with you, the best leveling path will probably be Bozja/Zadnor where your gear is synced up anyway.

I'm anticipating that Reaper will be a selfish DPS compared to Dragoon, like how Samurai is the selfish DPS to Monk.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Depending on where you intend to level 72-80, intermediate sets should not even be necessary. Unless you have a tank and healer on hand to chain dungeons with you, the best leveling path will probably be Bozja/Zadnor where your gear is synced up anyway.

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Dungeons and sidequests I didn't do...which is a lot. Not a fan of Eureka 5.0

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Originally Posted by Rollout

I'm anticipating that Reaper will be a selfish DPS compared to Dragoon, like how Samurai is the selfish DPS to Monk.

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Thats what I think too, but would be quite funny to have the chuuni character as the melee support. Would be quite ironic for those "im gonna main this before its even out" and watch how every other melee outdps(personal wise) them xD

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

not really sure why you would have this problem. my weapon inventory is the only one that is even close to capped out and i still have 7 slots open on it. the other ones are still are not even half full. if you mean leveling, the trick to that is to level things that share gear first. like if you lvl dnc first. then lvl brd mch and then nin next since they share the same gear.

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That and have insider information as to which armor class's latest expansion leveling gear you shouldn't throw out (by virtue of the incoming new jobs) after capping each job in said class. (Though, as that'd only be ~7 levels' worth of gear, due to Augmented tome gear at the end of the prior expansion, that'd hardly a significant burden regardless.)

Prolly a lot like drg minus the five move combo. Imagine two three hit combos then a filled gauge mode.

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Originally Posted by Caitsithhh

Prolly a lot like drg minus the five move combo. Imagine two three hit combos then a filled gauge mode.

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Also since scythe probably no potency loss on positionals just gauge loss

I really hope Reaper has a En Avant like skill that lets them move through the shadows. Like they fade into the floor really fast and slide to their new spot. OR, it has a gap closer where it fades into like a rift portal and reappears behind the enemy for a backstab like attack.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping RPR have good /cpose.

What do you guys think we'll get?

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

Meanwhile, I'm hoping RPR have good /cpose.

What do you guys think we'll get?

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E1ZfPFIW...pg&name=medium

:rolleyes:

Edda/Avere for job trainer, Magus/Sice for /cpose options.

I really want to see Lost Impetus implemented in some form as a gap closer/movement ability. Three charges, blink forward and speedboost yourself.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Three charges, blink forward and speedboost yourself.

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Out of curiosity, would the speedboosts ideally be independent but overlappable buffs, stacking and refreshing (e.g., Chi Torpedo, best reused at end of duration), or not stackable (and therefore best spread out that bit more)?

Personally, the first sounds the most fun to me, and also the most intuitive.

...Also curious if this game could even support, atm, having a single buff icon for multiple overlapping buffs that each fade separately. Is there any existing example of that?

Anyways, all that sounds great. My only twinge of regret would be that I likely couldn't also then have a Shadow Step of sorts, if only for fear of bloat (shared cooldowns with the above) or excessive capacity (cooldowns not shared). And I really do want a Shadow Step.

I was thinking of Chi Torpedo, oddly enough. It could overlap, but it doesn't have to. Leap into the shadows in the direction you were travelling 10-15 yalms, go ethereal, and gain a temporary speedboost/knockback prevention for a few seconds.

As much as I would like to teleport behind opponents, this game tends to be a bit jank when it comes to movement. The dev team also likes designing wall-sized bosses, so you'd have some fights where you wouldn't be able to use it at all. Teleporting back to a previous position (i.e. Transcendence/Recall) is another movement tool that we haven't seen implemented yet, but tends to be more niche.

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Thats what I think too, but would be quite funny to have the chuuni character as the melee support. Would be quite ironic for those "im gonna main this before its even out" and watch how every other melee outdps(personal wise) them xD

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This is what I think too.

It will be a selfish dos with levels kg build/spend gauge. Something akin to a level 1, 2, or 3 posession/fusion with the avatar. The longer you spend building the gauge (to a point) the more damage you do in the merged mode.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I was thinking of Chi Torpedo, oddly enough. It could overlap, but it doesn't have to. Leap into the shadows in the direction you were travelling 10-15 yalms, go ethereal, and gain a temporary speedboost/knockback prevention for a few seconds.

As much as I would like to teleport behind opponents, this game tends to be a bit jank when it comes to movement. The dev team also likes designing wall-sized bosses, so you'd have some fights where you wouldn't be able to use it at all. Teleporting back to a previous position (i.e. Transcendence/Recall) is another movement tool that we haven't seen implemented yet, but tends to be more niche.

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Yeah, true. Dang.

As for teleporting back to a previous position, I imagine we'd be unable to see that in the vein of Recall (e.g., without a prior action / the clock always running), but Transcendence, Displacement, or Alter Time styles of design should be possible. Maybe something like cutting a rift into the air, seemingly by coincidence with a given attack, and then being able to step through every other rift back to the first/odd-numbered one?

Eventually I’ll complain with the lack of weapons as it’ll repeat the same shabby treatment DNC and GNB got with their poor selection. Which would pour into all the ultimates aswell. For those keeping score at home just the shining trial weapons alone every other job has 20/20 while DNC and GNB have 2/20 and RPR and SAG will have 0/20 for probably deep into 6.3 or 6.4

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Originally Posted by Anhra

i expect Reaper to be kind of like this (role skills not included):

- generic 3 button single target combo, that may or may not, generate ressources.
- 2-3 button AoE combo
- "possession" mode is just inner release in disguise (might need ressource to trigger)
- 1 ranged attacks for the lulz
- 1 defensive skill on a 90-120sec CD
- 1-2 gap closers
- 1 DoT, just because.
- at least 2 self healing abilities (one or both might need said ressource)

Honestly, i don't expect very much out of it, aside it being generic as usual, as much as it pains me to say this.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

You realize Reaper is a melee DPS, right? It's not a tank so I dunno why you're giving it a tank rotation.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

For gameplay maybe a mix of ninja/gnb/HW drk

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Reaper expectations... well, here is my expectation of/for Reaper, and a thought that is going to make me livid, if it ends up beings the case...
Hot take: what looked like Reaper has a burst.. IS old Dark Arts, under a new name, a gauge instead of a ability, and void instead of darkness, while Reaper has a "fast" feeling sustained DPS, outside of its gauge-fueled burst; making it actually just the "band-aid fix" for Dark Knight...
I have a feeling of Apprehension towards, and expect/suspect that, Reaper just ends up being the literal replacement for Dark Knight, because Squeenix told the dev team to create a new edgy darkness subclass, for all of us discontent Dark Knights to ditch Dark Knight for and switch over to, so that we stop complaining about Dark Knight.

that said, I really will ditch Dark Knight for Reaper, if Dark Knight does not improve, and I bet that a lot of other Dark Knights will also ditch Dark Knight for Reaper, so bloody 72 hells...whether it was the intent of Squeenix or not, Reaper looks like it may be just the Dark Knight issues problem-solved blow-off.

I kinda hope that it ends up being a selfish dps to differentiate it enough from dragoon within its armor class.
I's also like fewer buttons, but having those buttons change pending on which phase you are in, akin to pheonix trance on summoner. iirc when in pheonix trance your base spells change into strong variants that have their own flavor of animations.
I'm kinda curious if the gauge depletes while in possession phase or it is just a flat cost for a set duration. One could make the class an up keep game where you keep trying to stay in the phase as long as possible, while the other is more like a CD that changes based on your actions. (kinda like Shadow Priest insanity for those WoW players out there) I'd like either tbh, but leaning more towards the latter.

Hmn... Expectation aside, my hope for Reaper is that its gameplay will at least sort-of respect how Scythe-wielding actually works, and how a Scythe is wielded in combat... Scythe Artes in real life, and to wield a Scythe in combat, is not like Swords or Axes, whom does not just directly attack the enemy.
actual Scythe Artes and Scythe-wielding, is for the most part, about countering the opponent's attacks. The Scythe-wielder waits for the enemy to attack first, and then counters with a side-step deflect, front-step Parry, or back-step riposte. Scythes in combat is a focus on countering attacks...

But then.. of course, this brings up the question of what about when the scythe-wielder is not the one being attacked, and attacking a enemy that is not attacking them? This is where the Reaper's attack animations in the reveal, looked actually good, as most of the animations looked like either side-to-side slashes, or long upwards swings; so in the case of real Scythe Artes, it looked good.
I just hope that the Reaper never does a thing as stupid as a over-head downswing, because a scythe should never be wielded like a axe or a hammer... that would only succeed in making the person look like a idiot, as they break their scythe's blade.

any way, back to the subject of counters...
I would love it if Reaper ends up having some thing related to Parry and Counter, as another reference to real Scythe Artes.

my first two ideas were if Reaper has Lancer/Dragoons' old "Keen Flurry" ability, but as a permanent passive Lv1 trait... The trait could be named some thing like "Scythe Artes" or what ever, but its effect could be that the Reaper has a ??%(how ever high that would have to be, to make Parry happen often) increased Parry chance, and Parry damage reduction is increased from 15% to 20%.
while my other idea would be if the Reaper has a oGCD ability named "Counter-stance", that for a short duration, would grant the Reaper a 100% chance to Parry attacks, and all attacks are countered, while the counter potency could have damage potential close to the Reaper's GCD WeaponSkills...
For a example, if the Reaper's GCD WeaponSkill combo would be P200 - P300 - P400, and the usual P100 outside of combo bonus, the counter potency could be P150 or P200.

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Originally Posted by Shiro--Tsubasa

I kinda hope that it ends up being a selfish dps to differentiate it enough from dragoon within its armor class.

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Tangential, but...

Tbh, I can't imagine the addition or removal of a hit-after-n-GCDs-and-then-on-cooldown fire-and-forget buff adjusting a job's identity.

If Battle Litany actually opened up certain avenues of play based on party actions, that -- while likely to increase irritation more powerfully/often than fun -- would actually have some impact on playflow and thereby theme.

Simply making a small part of one's throughput dependent on 3 to 7 others for no reason other than on-paper variance and increased punishment for raid CD desync... that's not a change to identity.

I REALLY hope they make the most care respecting the character animation in the world of gcd and ogcd.

Like all the gcd has fluid animation from your character, you strike something, you have animation that is expected to finish throughout the 2.5 second (or less with skill speed).

All the ogcd has bonus effect that doesn't interrupt your gcd animation.

Like if you do your expected combo 1 + 2 + 3, it has cool animation, all the ogcd animation are either done by that reaper thing or additional 'aura'.

No more machinist jumping in mid air, up side down even, and suddenly and magically standing upfront again to do gause round or something.

I don't think this will happen and am unsure people even want it, but is there room in melee DPS for a type of 'easier' but more support oriented job, similar to DNC? In terms of like selfish DPS, more buttons vs less, more positionals vs less, etc., it seems like a lot of the standard bases are already covered with melee.

It won't be Reaper but I think a melee dps could primarily be a support class with low damage offset with many partywide buffs to other people's heals, mitigation and overall dps. Haste buffs would also be nice.

I think players would appreciate a Red Mage styled melee job that is simple and easy to pick up.

Red Mage is very much a casual job with very little nuance and is also good for progression.

Most support playstyles are held by healer classes though.

Only real support skills you really see are for damage when it comes to Ninja or Dancer.

reaper will be selish, Yoshida said that he cant imagin Zenos with support and assistance skills and and I think it makes sense to differentiate it from the dragoon that has support spells for the team. What "scares me" is that suddenly the reaper will be in direct competition with the samurai. I did not want to find the same scenario between the dancer and the bard which was below and therefore much less played than the dancer

id imagine the melee DPS equivalent of MCH.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

id imagine the melee DPS equivalent of MCH.

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That's samurai XD

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Originally Posted by Titoulakikoute

reaper will be selish, Yoshida said that he cant imagin Zenos with support and assistance skills and and I think it makes sense to differentiate it from the dragoon that has support spells for the team. What "scares me" is that suddenly the reaper will be in direct competition with the samurai. I did not want to find the same scenario between the dancer and the bard which was below and therefore much less played than the dancer

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Probably wont be the same scenario as dnc and bard since you dont have to worry about having both being able to buff the party. Just have to make it so they both do close enough damage to each other

I must say, I'm really excited to be discussing on the topic of Reaper as I'm so hype for this job to come to the game. The long wait since DRK's reveal for a Scythe melee job has been paid in full and I for one have been completely satisfied with the way they are going with the job so far. However, to add in a few things on what I'm hoping for when they go deep into the jobs mechanics during the Media Tour; I have a bit in mind when it comes to it.

Going down a jotted list, here's some of what I'm expecting will be part of the Reaper's toolkit. Will explain a bit of the details down below afterwards.

- First and foremost, the job WILL be a Pure Melee DPS.
- Reaper will likely have 2-3 Short Weaponskill Combo Chains. (Will explain more on this.)
- Reaper will probably have 2 AOE Combos. (likely splitting off from one AOE Started)
- Reaper having about 2-3 Single Target and AOE Cooldowns.
- Reaper's Avatar having about 2-3 Single Target and AOE Cooldowns.
- Reaper getting obvious Gap Closer, but would also like a Back Step attack like Samurai.
- Reaper having at least one DoT on the same caliber if not lower as Samurai.
- Avatar Possession will actually be unlocked at 80 and will build from there. (Will explain why below)
- Avatar Possession will upgrade existing Weaponskills and Avatar Abilities to new attacks when under the transformation.
- Avatar Possession will come with custom Walking and Sprinting Animation.
- Avatar Possession will likely have a time limit of 30 to 60 secs (Hoping for 60 secs)
- Avatar Possession can hopefully be extended (I pray, but won't hold my breath)