Why isn’t the third party software ban enforced?

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

No, it's more like an alert that says "Left" when the boss has a giant, flaming animation going on with their right hand.

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I read this and violently hear "RUN AWAY LITTLE GIRL RUN AWAY" in my head.

Its like you people have never played any other MMO. Anyone ever play WoW or Elder Scrolls Online? Addons or Elvui for things like spell timer bars so you can see what is going on with out squinting, dps meters, Deadly Boss Mod, Big Wigs for boss call outs are all pretty standard and yet content is challenging and still considered more challenging than this game in WoWs case.

Addons dont physically make people move out of the aoes or do the mechanic etc. Its not any different than having a call out or reading a guide before the boss.Your not running a Professional Mythic Dungeon Invitational so why do you even care what tools folks use for quality of life with their statics? Personally I dont care it means less wipes and those with vision, reflex, ping, or other accessibility issues can enjoy the game.

oh we've played other mmos but the rules of this game says mods are forbidden respect the rules or one day you might login in and find your account has been banned and rightly so

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Originally Posted by Psytic

Its like you people have never played any other MMO. Anyone ever play WoW or Elder Scrolls Online? Addons or Elvui for things like spell timer bars so you can see what is going on with out squinting, dps meters, Deadly Boss Mod, Big Wigs for boss call outs are all pretty standard and yet content is challenging and still considered more challenging than this game in WoWs case.

Addons dont physically make people move out of the aoes or do the mechanic etc. Its not any different than having a call out or reading a guide before the boss.Your not running a Professional Mythic Dungeon Invitational so why do you even care what tools folks use for quality of life with their statics? Personally I dont care it means less wipes and those with vision, reflex, ping, or other accessibility issues can enjoy the game.

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That's probably why I don't play them. It's not even culture/toxicity related for me. I played ESO when it launched.. and my experience with addons in that game at the time was every week or two I had to spend 20 to 30 minutes with outdated addons and trying to get basic functionalities that other MMO's have by default working again. I don't play WoW so I can't comment there. I can say though that I am quite glad addons are not an officially endorsed thing here, even though I don't care that others use them. You play content where it's very helpful slash required? Then I can understand why something like ACT will be needed and used.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

I learned today that people can install plugins for third party software that give them VISUAL and AUDIO notifications for things like Dots and spell cooldowns, and what the boss is going to cast next, making their rotations exceedingly easier to keep up during busier fights. Why is this not considered cheating? This puts me, a console player, and any PC player who refuses to break the rules, at a SEVERE disadvantage. Why isn’t this considered cheating and/or botting? It literally screams in your ears what to press next for your rotation and where/when to move. That’s cheating...or maybe I’m missing something?

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That's been around for many years. It ain't news.
And they will always be there as SE won't scan your PC cause of privacy.

Also they don't hurt anyone or breaks the game for anyone.
There is used to be a visual call for one of the Ultimate fights and they patched that.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

oh we've played other mmos but the rules of this game says mods are forbidden respect the rules or one day you might login in and find your account has been banned and rightly so

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That would require them to actually check for people using them...which they don't. Otherwise I know of plenty of people who should be banned by now.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

That would require them to actually check for people using them...which they don't. Otherwise I know of plenty of people who should be banned by now.

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i dunno plenty of people are dumb enough to use mods in stream just ban them first :P

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

i dunno plenty of people are dumb enough to use mods in stream just ban them first :P

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And again, if Square cared they would be banned. Especially if the person is streaming to a large audience. If the person is not banned, then there's your answer to how they feel about those mods.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

what the boss is going to cast next

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Using a mod that tells you how to play a great insult to oneself. Whether they realize it or not.

What they are fundamentally doing is borrowing the experience of others, the ones who programmed the mod, because they are unwilling to learn anything hard by themselves. Astoundingly awful quality to have.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

oh we've played other mmos but the rules of this game says mods are forbidden respect the rules or one day you might login in and find your account has been banned and rightly so

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Yea I mean its not available for world first raiding as the addons aren't programmed at that point. Some one has to do it after they have done the content... and after that point having an app that does a call out rather than a Guild Leader isnt really hurting anyone its basically the same thing...there is no bragging rights after world first or competitive nature in the content after a world first has been claimed. So at that point I cant see why anyone cares if its a text line saying move your butt or a guy over the comms... Theres barely enough people as it is that do the content so at least its helping with the pool of available players to that can hope to complete it. There's no "competitive advantage" as its not like there's a leaderboard or any pro gamer stats to track like WoW. Not seeing an issue with it as these types of tools are in every other top 5 mmo out there. Square is probably happy they dont have to spend dev time programming in more aoe tells themselves.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

oh we've played other mmos but the rules of this game says mods are forbidden respect the rules or one day you might login in and find your account has been banned and rightly so

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If they did something so stupid, they would lose a huge chunk of players overnight. Can't fault players from developing helpful tools that SE won't give them.

they was not players in the first place they agreed to the tos when they signed up for an account they was little more then ToS Violators the same as the bots and RMT so if they got banned for illegal software no one would shed a tear other then their fellow rule breakers gaming is a privilege not a right
then again given your other thread and your inability to respect rule 3.2 i expect you'll be banned in the future too

Oh Confucius please do enlighten us as to why SE would want to murder it's raid scene.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

they was not players in the first place they agreed to the tos when they signed up for an account they was little more then ToS Violators the same as the bots and RMT so if they got banned for illegal software no one would shed a tear other then their fellow rule breakers gaming is a privilege not a right
then again given your other thread and your inability to respect rule 3.2 i expect you'll be banned in the future too

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For some reason, you think getting banned from FFXIV is the end of the world for everyone like it is for you.

Rules are there a for reason. And the reason why mods like ACT are "officially" not allowed is to protect bad players from open harassment in chat. This is the sole reason. Otherwise, having your DPS calculated is a basic feature which the game ought to provide on its own.

is it though very few mmo have a built in parser its after all the creation of a rather toxic group of people that keeps ruining one mmo after the other and can't see that maybe they are the problem

Ban every one using ACT for dps logs! Brilliant. Every mmo has a combat log.... If they didnt want that combat data exported they wouldnt have a combat log feature.... Thats the only purpose a combat log export serves is dps parsing. Whether an app parses it or you do it yourself in Excel whats the difference...

Pretty sure the answer to your question was covered in a live letter long as people use the rule "We don't talk about fight club" and long as no one uses it to harassment of other players they said they would turn a blind eye to it as for plugins pretty sure the only ones they do ban people for are the ones that change how the game works like that time that ult group used a plugin to change the waymarkers mid fight now thats a big no no and they patched it out pretty quickly.

As call outs and things eeeeh I can't imagine it not being much different than your team mate calling it out discord as good group will have one person doing that anyway usually the tank or the raid team leader but at the end of the day is it really hurting anyone? Does it change how you play? I mean people gonna do what they need to do to enjoy the game their way, even I use a modded controller to play the game one handed since I only got the one would you say thats consider against terms of service? Probably tho shout out to Ben Heck for making it and supporting the disabled gaming community.

Also fun fact if you were here when 2.0 was being made they did say they would try allow plugins or a feature to make plugins as it was a major thing for FFXI everyone used windower back then but because it was to hard it add to console version it ended up being scraped but hey one the bright side ps4 and ps5 users will see their very first plugin coming next year with discord being added to psn so thats a thing right?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

For some reason, you think getting banned from FFXIV is the end of the world for everyone like it is for you.

Rules are there a for reason. And the reason why mods like ACT are "officially" not allowed is to protect bad players from open harassment in chat. This is the sole reason. Otherwise, having your DPS calculated is a basic feature which the game ought to provide on its own.

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Ought too provide? Ehhhhh


Sadly I think this is a losing fight for the developers. They have very little ways to stop it.



I respect the developers for not wanting them, even if we do. Getting told no is ok, and I think saying a game ought to have something oversteps as a consumer. They design the game and set the rules for us to play in. We can not like the rules, but service does not have to cater to our needs as long as we keep coming back.




Combat logs are a great tool for players who want to min/max and better themselves and has been used to weaponize and harass players. We all know this. From a developers point of view. Being able to design fights without having to worry about the player base easily min/max and less harassing. Is better for the long term health of the game, than giving these tools for all to use.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Ought too provide? Ehhhhh


Sadly I think this is a losing fight for the developers. They have very little ways to stop it.



I respect the developers for not wanting them, even if we do. Getting told no is ok, and I think saying a game ought to have something oversteps as a consumer. They design the game and set the rules for us to play in. We can not like the rules, but service does not have to cater to our needs as long as we keep coming back.




Combat logs are a great tool for players who want to min/max and better themselves and has been used to weaponize and harass players. We all know this. From a developers point of view. Being able to design fights without having to worry about the player base easily min/max and less harassing. Is better for the long term health of the game, than giving these tools for all to use.

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Lulwut? If they pursued players for using ACT the game's raid scene would die overnight.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

I respect the developers for not wanting them, even if we do. Getting told no is ok, and I think saying a game ought to have something oversteps as a consumer. They design the game and set the rules for us to play in.

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Being content with anything you get is beyond ridiculous. Speaks a lot about one's self-esteem though.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

We can not like the rules, but service does not have to cater to our needs as long as we keep coming back.

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The service is made to cater to our needs or more like the needs of the majority of subscribers. You have it so wrong.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

From a developers point of view. Being able to design fights without having to worry about the player base easily min/max and less harassing.

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When you are playing so bad and you don't worry that you might be destroying the experience for those around you, you are extremely self-centred and deserving of a kick. Nobody is going to say anything, feel happy that you are not harassed by being told something more than "put efforts into learning your role". Just no one will want to play with you. I am actually kind of surprised how swiftly most of the vote kicks I initiate pass.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Being content with anything you get is beyond ridiculous. Speaks a lot about one's self-esteem though.



The service is made to cater to our needs or more like the needs of the majority of subscribers. You have it so wrong.



When you are playing so bad and you don't worry that you might be destroying the experience for those around you, you are extremely self-centred and deserving of a kick. Nobody is going to say anything, feel happy that you are not harassed by being told something more than "put efforts into learning your role". Just no one will want to play with you. I am actually kind of surprised how swiftly most of the vote kicks I initiate pass.

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As a consumer you have a right to request what you want. That does not mean the developers have to listen to what you want. They are the one making the service. The only right that we have is to support them or not. The service are catering to your needs because you are still paying for said service, no matter what you really want.



And about the vote kick, If that is what the group wants than who are we to argue against it? The group overall has a right to pick who they want to play with. If the community leans more toward kicking players they don't like how they playing than it will shift to that. Heck if you are doing optional content that requires you to be decent at the game and go in knowing full well you are not. I take that stance with you. Mind you the line is blur when it comes to queues and content force to be done for the story. Like, it is design for all players to do even if you are not good.




My point is this. As a consumer you can request the developers to do things. That does not mean they got to listen, and as long as you keep paying them. That money is louder than any words you use.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

is it though very few mmo have a built in parser its after all the creation of a rather toxic group of people that keeps ruining one mmo after the other and can't see that maybe they are the problem

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I said a game, not mmo. I haven't played that many other mmo-s and I couldn't be bothered to play them. I read that FFXIV and WoW are the best in the genre. I installed FFXIV because I liked the graphics more.

All the MOBAs that I have played show me how well I have played in that match in numbers. FFXIV actually does the same in PvP matches. So it is not that hard to do it for PvE. They have simply decided not to do it to protect players from harassment. Probably the same reason why I cannot chat in the feast.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

As a consumer you have a right to request what you want. That does not mean the developers have to listen to what you want. They are the one making the service. The only right that we have is to support them or not. The service are catering to your needs because you are still paying for said service, no matter what you really want.

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It seems there is something you don't understand.

It is against ToS to use ACT. But I won't sit and wait till they allow it. I will not request permission to have my DPS calculated either. It is still difficult for me to wrap my head around the people who refuse to know how well they have performed.

I have been told that officially using ACT is against ToS. Yet they don't ban players unless they use that data to harass someone else. So basically we have a rule which is not being enforced because they want our subs. Their service is catering to us which is why I am still subscribed.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

It seems there is something you don't understand.

It is against ToS to use ACT. But I won't sit and wait till they allow it. I will not request permission to have my DPS calculated either. It is still difficult for me to wrap my head around the people who refuse to know how well they have performed.

I have been told that officially using ACT is against ToS. Yet they don't ban players unless they use that data to harass someone else. So basically we have a rule which is not being enforced because they want our subs. Their service is catering to us which is why I am still subscribed.

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What my husband was trying to get at is that, the Developers don't like it and you pick to use it. Saying it should be in the game is not your call. You can want it, but at the end of the day the developers don't...and it is the developers right and choice.




Rules only matter if it is being enforced. So you are well with your right to give them the middle finger and keep doing what you want even if the developers don't want you to do it. If they can't enforce the rules, and know they can't. All they can do is ask you not do it, and hope for best. If you want to not listen to the developers. Go for it!


However, if one day they figure out how to stop it. I'm sure you will be understanding about that right?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Being content with anything you get is beyond ridiculous. Speaks a lot about one's self-esteem though.



The service is made to cater to our needs or more like the needs of the majority of subscribers. You have it so wrong.



When you are playing so bad and you don't worry that you might be destroying the experience for those around you, you are extremely self-centred and deserving of a kick. Nobody is going to say anything, feel happy that you are not harassed by being told something more than "put efforts into learning your role". Just no one will want to play with you. I am actually kind of surprised how swiftly most of the vote kicks I initiate pass.

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Trust me, the majority of subscribers are not the part of the community that would ask for an official parser. I can guarandamntee you that. The majority of subscribers would scratch their heads and wonder what on earth they need such a thing for. Because shocker.. while vocal as raiders always tend to be, raiders nevertheless are an exceedingly small percentage of this game's playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

It is against ToS to use ACT. But I won't sit and wait till they allow it. I will not request permission to have my DPS calculated either. It is still difficult for me to wrap my head around the people who refuse to know how well they have performed.

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You have an official way to tell if your DPS is good enough, it's called the Raid Dummies. Parsers are only really good to show people who's numbers are bigger and allow players to target those with numbers they deem "not good enough"

If you can beat the Raid Dummy your DPS is fine.

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

However, if one day they figure out how to stop it.

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If they wanted to stop it they would have removed battle logs from the game. Humans don't read them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Trust me, the majority of subscribers are not the part of the community that would ask for an official parser. I can guarandamntee you that. The majority of subscribers would scratch their heads and wonder what on earth they need such a thing for. Because shocker.. while vocal as raiders always tend to be, raiders nevertheless are an exceedingly small percentage of this game's playerbase.

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I completely agree with that. This is why we don't have an official parser and rules are made in order to protect the majority of players from unnecessary harassment.

I just meant to say that companies that provide services adjust them in a way that satisfies most of their consumers. Meaning, the consumers hold the power, not the companies. The person I was replying to said something like "service does not have to cater to our needs as long as we keep coming back." If a service is not catering to my needs why I would come back in the first place. This is kinda controversial. In any case, the way he puts it sounds to me like I need to be grateful for anything that I get, whatever that anything is.

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Originally Posted by Xia_Thas

You have an official way to tell if your DPS is good enough, it's called the Raid Dummies. Parsers are only really good to show people who's numbers are bigger and allow players to target those with numbers they deem "not good enough"

If you can beat the Raid Dummy your DPS is fine.

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I didn't know such dummies existed. Will have to look them up in google.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

If they wanted to stop it they would have removed battle logs from the game. Humans don't read them anyway.



I completely agree with that. This is why we don't have an official parser and rules are made in order to protect the majority of players from unnecessary harassment.

I just meant to say that companies that provide services adjust them in a way that satisfies most of their consumers. Meaning, the consumers hold the power, not the companies. The person I was replying to said something like "service does not have to cater to our needs as long as we keep coming back." If a service is not catering to my need why I would come back first of all. This is kinda controversial. In any case, the way he puts it sounds to me like I need to be grateful for anything that I get, whatever that anything is.

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Fair point. Ultimately it is you yourself who decides whether or not you feel sufficiently catered to to stick around.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Because shocker.. while vocal as raiders always tend to be, raiders nevertheless are an exceedingly small percentage of this game's playerbase.

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I would actually say that most of the endgame playerbase engages with raiding to some degree; Even on the hardest tiers, some servers have had full-tier clear rates of around 30%. It can be assumed that EX trials, and even the lesser savage floors are accessed by a MUCH wider pool of players than the total full clear rate.

Hardly an exceedingly small percentage really.

Ah jeez I had my Windows Calculator open, guess I'm getting a ban.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

I didn't know such dummies existed. Will have to look them up in google.

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Specifically you should google "Stone Sky Sea."
They are basically training dummies that come with a timer.

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Stone,_Sky,_Sea

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

snip

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Originally Posted by Jadedsins

my husband

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Assuming Wavaryen is the person you were referring to, did you guys make a matching Au Ra couple?

Edit: my posts were a day apart but I guess I double posted lol.
Sorry about that.

Because no one should cares. It's not hurting you or anyone else so why complain about it?

Because people need their witch to burn, never mind that they themselves are completely unaffected. It's human nature.

SE cut any DRM programs or code from FFXIV after 1.0 since it was part why the game ran so poorly. They have seen and dealt with cheaters that have exploited software before. IE, there was a BLM exploit that let informed players cast far faster than they were meant to that lead to a bunch of drama and bans in the raid scene during Coil’s era.

Yoshi-P and the devs, to my understanding, take a stance of don’t ask, don’t tell with the mods, as the vast majority are just visual bits and bobs. Most players who mod respect that and keep details to themselves or their circles of friends.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Specifically you should google "Stone Sky Sea."
They are basically training dummies that come with a timer.

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Stone,_Sky,_Sea

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Sadly far from realistic, a boss don't stand still and mechanics happen.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Sadly far from realistic, a boss don't stand still and mechanics happen.

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however they can give DPS a realistic idea of how close they are to an "appropriate" level of damage output. If you plan to tackle "high end" content you should be able to maintain your rotation with minor interruptions.

SSS allows you to check whether your gear and rotation is enough for the content: Didn't pass = Need better gear/rotation, Barely passed = You need to tweak something , get buffs or improve gear, Passed with spare time = You're ready to try and clear.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Sadly far from realistic, a boss don't stand still and mechanics happen.

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True, but dummy is still a more or less accurate way to check your perfomance. If person can't beat a dummy despite it standing and not having mechanics - they're clearly not good enough to clear the content itself. If they're beating on last 5 seconds - they will struggle. If there's decent leftover of time - they're okay.