Is Zenos becoming a Scion? (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

They can always do the Golbez thing, and reveal that he's been under some sort of geas since childhood. It would be a pretty ridiculous plot twist, but... hey, it worked for Golbez.

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I don’t think they’ll do this, however it’s not out of the realm of possibility. We have tempering (which we just found a cure for) and we’ve seen ascian possession as well.

There is something extremely....off about Zenos. I’m looking forward to finding out what that entails, exactly. If in the end he becomes an ally, I’ll be surprised but I wouldn’t hate it. There would just have to be a really good reason to forgive him for his lengthy list of atrocities.

Zenos is on the birth of a God trajectory. He will take the power of Zodiark, absorb the lifestream, become perfect and try to end this star.

But I like the idea that none of that will happen and we get a major swerve, maybe not to the point of becoming a Scion.

I think the Scions should just dissolve after the Endwalker msq has a peaceful ending. Each member returning home.

I imagine it will be a "Hey... this isn't how I want the world to be destroyed! Nobody kills the WoL but me!" kind of thing.

The Vegeta Angle could indeed be viable. :)

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Originally Posted by Garet

The Vegeta Angle could indeed be viable. :)

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So Zenos becomes a loving father and Husband while the WoL becomes a narsacistic asshole that is willing to destroy the universe just for a fight?

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Now that Fanfest is over and we've all had some moment to reflect... I have a particularly crazy theory: Zenos is going to become a Scion and betray Fandaniel. He appeared in the poster for Endwalker along the Scions with a neutral/good-guy look. Yoshi P then said these are the Scions when he referred to the poster. Also, the developers have stated that Zenos is not the final boss. So I'm wondering... would Zenos be joining us? There's no other good explanation for why he's on the poster otherwise.

https://www.gematsu.com/wp-content/u...r_05-15-21.jpg

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I honestly sort of wonder that at well. I honestly kind of dig Zenos, almost like the "Vegeta" to our "Goku", and with HIM being the poster-child for the new "Reaper" class, I sort of wonder if he'll function as a violent anti-hero?

He's so obsessed with having "an equal" and rival, I could see him undermining Fandaniel, perhaps even RESCUING us.

I don't necessarily see him becoming a "Scion", but I could see him stepping away from both Garlemald and Ascian business, and focusing purely on becoming stronger and deadlier, specifically to rival us. Sort of a "recurring antagonist", but occasionally an anti-hero.

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Originally Posted by Nothv13

So Zenos becomes a loving father and Husband while the WoL becomes a narsacistic asshole that is willing to destroy the universe just for a fight?

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i know this is the popular meme, but the manga reveals that all the universes in the Tournament of Power were slated for deletion already, and the Goku's suggestion of the ToP ended up saving them all because of the victor's selfless wish.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Now that Fanfest is over and we've all had some moment to reflect... I have a particularly crazy theory: Zenos is going to become a Scion and betray Fandaniel. He appeared in the poster for Endwalker along the Scions with a neutral/good-guy look. Yoshi P then said these are the Scions when he referred to the poster. Also, the developers have stated that Zenos is not the final boss. So I'm wondering... would Zenos be joining us? There's no other good explanation for why he's on the poster otherwise.

https://www.gematsu.com/wp-content/u...r_05-15-21.jpg

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I think its a possibility, I had this feeling that the story devs are pushing this Light and Dark friendship as it was shown between the Oracles of light and Darkness, so its not much of a stretch if their going to the chosen of Hydaelyn and Zodiark being comrades as well, and yes I think Zenos is going to be the chosen for Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

i know this is the popular meme, but the manga reveals that all the universes in the Tournament of Power were slated for deletion already, and the Goku's suggestion of the ToP ended up saving them all because of the victor's selfless wish.

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I'm aware, but it wasn't simply the ToP. Throughout DBZ, Goku makes questionable and selfish decisions allowing enemies to get stronger and or more powerful so that he can fight them more.

I will still against redeeming him even with "vegeta" argument. It may works on other games/stories, but not in ffxiv.

We have killed people for way less. People who are not strictly evil, people who just following orders, people who just want to defend themselves, conscripted soldiers, etc. And the narrative makes sure to punish most of the major antagonists. Some even less evil than Zenos.

Yes fordola and Gaius are spared, but the story still punish them, especially Gaius. He was beaten hard.

Now Zenos? How are they going to redeem someone who still chooses to be evil when given a second chance? One whose kill count is probably only beaten by the ascian? Not to mention that he must have known how horrible the towers work.

Punishing him will be difficult too, since he only cares about himself and fighting. Maybe they can make him an invalid so he can't fight again, but in that case, why not just kill him all together? I don't think they can redeem him without changing his character 180°, which I wonder if that's a good idea or not? After all people like Zenos because the way he is right? If they change him too much, won't people dislike it?

Zenos is ostensibly becoming a Reaper so if he is joining the Scions it could be somehow centered around that.

While Villains have been on the posters before, they repeatedly called this artwork the SCIONS, if they had just called it an art piece or not said anything about it other than who drew it, but they kept saying this was the Scions, which other than mystery woman at the top and Zenos, it is. That's why I think there might be something to this, with them saying this is an art work of the Scions, and if the woman at the top is Venat, it makes sense she'd be helping, temparray or if she sticks around so counting her as an ally makes sense. So that literally only leaves Zenos, in an artwork of the Scions.

Who knows what they'll do with him, but even if he dose join us, doesn't mean he's instantly a good guy, unless they go with a "he wasn't fully in control of/himself all this time." if they did take the Vegeta route, it took Vegeta real life decades to actually redeem himself, so I don't expect Zenos to just join, everyone be cool with him and he be a nice guy.
I actually like Zenos, so I'd like for him to stick around and to see what they could do with him if he got some focused development rather than being stuck in the "meanwhile..." sections.

One other thing about Zenos being a Reaper is that Reapers call on the void and can channel and become living hosts to Voidsent.

Zenos, as we know, is now aware that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Primals. He's already been the host of Shinryu so it's entirely possible he'd use the power of a Reaper to host Zodiark. This could be especially likely if Hydaelyn is actually the penultimate villain of Endwalker. I can see Zenos wanting to fist fight Hydaelyn. After all, he's been obsessed with the Warrior of Light this whole time and the WoL gets their power from Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Zenos is ostensibly becoming a Reaper so if he is joining the Scions it could be somehow centered around that.

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Zenos confirmed to be the WoL's Reaper familiar. XD

Onto the actual thing...it says Scion. A scion is an heir or descendant. In this case, Zenos IS a scion...to Emet Selch.

If it means we kill him off for real, I'm perfectly happy to never use the class again.

Only way to redeem Zenos is to delete him from any form of existence.

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Originally Posted by MrPresident

I don’t think Zenos has shown enough depth for this to be done in any way that makes sense. He just really wants to kill us because he’s bored. And kill everyone else because he’s bored. And end the world because he’s bored. I suppose in theory he could join us out of boredom too. But would anyone really care?

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Not only would it be OOC for him since he kinda was like that for many years in his life (and even that way after he bascially got a second chance in life) but why would the Scions even allow someone like him join them?

@OP: There had always been the enemies of the expansion mixed into the posters so I dont see why this one suddenly should mean that he is turning into a good guy. (And would go completely against his reasons of existance..after all Yoshida himself stated that he was created purely to be hated and to be a bad guy.)

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

While Villains have been on the posters before, they repeatedly called this artwork the SCIONS, if they had just called it an art piece or not said anything about it other than who drew it, but they kept saying this was the Scions, which other than mystery woman at the top and Zenos, it is. That's why I think there might be something to this, with them saying this is an art work of the Scions, and if the woman at the top is Venat, it makes sense she'd be helping, temparray or if she sticks around so counting her as an ally makes sense. So that literally only leaves Zenos, in an artwork of the Scions.

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I mean wouldnt they then just completely spoiler a plot point if that truly was showing just all the scions?

I'd rather just kill Zenos.

The solution for making Zenos a scion is easy to pull off.

Say it with me: Amnesia.

:rolleyes:

A lot of people in this topic are seriously reaching and reading way too much into things... Pretty typical for the internet I know, but come on.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Onto the actual thing...it says Scion. A scion is an heir or descendant. In this case, Zenos IS a scion...to Emet Selch.

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This. Have you all forgotten that Zenos is the great-grandson of Emet-Selch? Also, I feel the need to remind people that the OP is a known troll, and you lot have taken the bait. Again.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

The solution for making Zenos a scion is easy to pull off.

Say it with me: Amnesia.

:rolleyes:

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Tried it with Yotsuyu. We saw how well that worked out.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

One other thing about Zenos being a Reaper is that Reapers call on the void and can channel and become living hosts to Voidsent.

Zenos, as we know, is now aware that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are Primals. He's already been the host of Shinryu so it's entirely possible he'd use the power of a Reaper to host Zodiark. This could be especially likely if Hydaelyn is actually the penultimate villain of Endwalker. I can see Zenos wanting to fist fight Hydaelyn. After all, he's been obsessed with the Warrior of Light this whole time and the WoL gets their power from Hydaelyn.

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Do we get our strength from Hydealyn or is it just she makes it seem that we do.

I think we get the "blessing of light" from her, but not sure that translates as her being the source of our strength. I am reminded of havensward where midgardsormr "blocked" off our connection with hydealyn... yet despite this we still prevailed. Yoshi P also said that we should read up on Heavensward for Endwalker so i wouldnt be surprised if this is part of the reason.

or it might not be. I'm still in the camp of Hydealyn is something that needs to be stopped and i hope zodiark is something that needs to be restored. Id like it to end with us putting them in balance over Zodiark being the evil and Hydealyn being all benevolent.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I mean wouldnt they then just completely spoiler a plot point if that truly was showing just all the scions?

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We've also got potential "human" form Venat at the top there, so the spoil ship is sailing twice, they've also spoiled a lot during fanfeast and in the past, they seem fine with some spoilers so long as they're void of enough context. If, IF Zenos dose join us in some capacity we can't rally glean anything beyond it might happen from this art, the how, why or anything else is still left to be learned.

I don't really care if he joins the scions or not, I just want to see more of my boy! Zenos is such a cool character, such a great villain. Heck, if Emet Selch managed to be part of the boys (even if for just a while), I'm sure they can manage something for MAH BOI.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

We've also got potential "human" form Venat at the top there, so the spoil ship is sailing twice, they've also spoiled a lot during fanfeast and in the past, they seem fine with some spoilers so long as they're void of enough context. If, IF Zenos dose join us in some capacity we can't rally glean anything beyond it might happen from this art, the how, why or anything else is still left to be learned.

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Random thought popped my head...doesn't Emet-Selch have a bunch of clones of himself in Garlemald? We could have an Ascian who shaped an Emet-Selch clone to a Zenos clone, or perhaps we have actual clones running parts of Garlemald, such as if it was Nerva. Would be one hell of a plot twist if Nerva and Zenos were both clones of somebody, with Zenos being the "failed experiment" while Nerva is the perfected one.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Random thought popped my head...doesn't Emet-Selch have a bunch of clones of himself in Garlemald? We could have an Ascian who shaped an Emet-Selch clone to a Zenos clone, or perhaps we have actual clones running parts of Garlemald, such as if it was Nerva. Would be one hell of a plot twist if Nerva and Zenos were both clones of somebody, with Zenos being the "failed experiment" while Nerva is the perfected one.

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He does seem to be wearing a different outfit from his very red trimmed reaper one, but that's my point, who knows? It's one picture it gives one pause but we've nothing to go on other than it's supposed to be the Scions and someone who looks like Zeons is standing in amongst us.
Personally I'd like it to actually be Zenos's but we'll have to see, it's Final Fantasy, nothings off of the table.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

Do we get our strength from Hydealyn or is it just she makes it seem that we do.

I think we get the "blessing of light" from her, but not sure that translates as her being the source of our strength. I am reminded of havensward where midgardsormr "blocked" off our connection with hydealyn... yet despite this we still prevailed. Yoshi P also said that we should read up on Heavensward for Endwalker so i wouldnt be surprised if this is part of the reason.

or it might not be. I'm still in the camp of Hydealyn is something that needs to be stopped and i hope zodiark is something that needs to be restored. Id like it to end with us putting them in balance over Zodiark being the evil and Hydealyn being all benevolent.

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Whether we do or don't, ZENOS would probably feel we do, right? Or that we at least have enough of a connection that fist fighting Hydaelyn would be a cute time for him.

If he beats us in a fight he'll set his sights on what seems to be an even more powerful foe.

Or he carries Zodiark as a Reaper and we and/or an Oracle (the lady at the top who may or may not be Venat) carry Hydaelyn to fight whatever the source of the Sound is.

I, for one, would like to see the story progress this way. The Fandaniel/Zenos evil duo is too 1-demensional and boring to me.

I always wonder about Zenos' unnatural fixations to the PC, and was thinking maybe he actually processes the remaining soul fragments; or maybe it would be someone else in that body, e.g. Emet-Selch... Well, all sort of possibilities open the door now.

And, Zenos never bothered me as an enemy. He always seemed to have killed more Garlean generals and soldiers than the scions' friends (who he likes to beat up then say some words to hurt your feeling and ego rather than end your life).

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

and the WoL gets their power from Hydaelyn.

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Hmm I dunno how true that is at this point tbh. I mean, yeah, the blessing of light made it possible for us to contain the light long enough to merge with our soul shard from the first, but other than that what has Hydaelyn done for us lately?

If Gaius can be redeemed so can Zenos & honestly as of right now he really hasn't done much cause his goals was never to kill but to have people rise up & give him the fight he yearned for thus he would kill his own soldiers & commanders for doing too much he doesn't want broken prey, he wants prey that'll happily bare it's fangs. I never get the Murder Hobo comment he really hasn't killed that many in current story he's got some of cleanest hands out of the Garleans Leaders maybe Regula might be only one with cleaner hands than Zenos.

Also few factors he contemplated changing his ways as Elezenos but decided to remain a bad guy, Emet experimented on him & this is a 4 heavy expansion & you know who had a twisted mind/voice in head & went goodish/repented Goldbez, he knows little kindness just people doing job looking after the Prince & naught but Assassin's trying to kill him from child hood. I think good chance Fan Danial will betray him & we'll be there to save him & he'll slowly change over the second half of 6.0.

I'd say I also hope they didn't bring him back just to fight him whilst I wont mind fighting him I really hope there's more to him in EW & he does change otherwise if not I'll be wishing they had left him dead.

Gaius was redeemed. I can see Zenos being redeemed but it will take a lot of writing and explanations. It would make sense in terms of satisfying his desire for hunting, instead he would hunt primals and get to occasionally spare with his rival the WoL.

I don't see them redeeming Zenos.

Gaius was a stretch and some people really aren't happy about where his story ended in the Sorrow of Werlyt quests as is. And he was a character who thought, from his perspective, he was acting for the good of the world.

Zenos is just selfish and bloodthirsty. He doesn't have any ideals he's carrying out in a flawed manner. He had his potential moment to redeem and change his path when he came back to life, considering it and then rejecting the idea. It seems highly unlikely they're going to redeem him now. I don't think I'd buy it if they tried.

Gaius was always portrayed as a well-intentioned extremist who genuinely thought that putting Eorzea under Garlean rule was the best path to protect the world from eikons and beastmen.

Zenos is a dead-eyed sociopath with no real goals or motivation beyond finding someone worth fighting, and if he has to grind entire nations under his heel to do it, he won't give it a second thought. Or even a first thought.

Not really comparable.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Hmm I dunno how true that is at this point tbh. I mean, yeah, the blessing of light made it possible for us to contain the light long enough to merge with our soul shard from the first, but other than that what has Hydaelyn done for us lately?

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I mean more from the perspective of Zenos.

We are the Warrior of Light. Hydaelyn is the Primal of Light.

We were named after her and have a connection to her.

Ergo, she must be more powerful than us and make for good "prey".

And he might come at her with Zodiark's power.

Since Hydaelyn is increasingly shown as being as sketchy as Zodiark knocking her out may not be such a bad thing.



...On the other hand when they say that this is an image of the Scions they might actually mean "The Scions and Zenos" and we're all reading too much into it. Who knows!

Zenos coming over to the Scions would at least be an interesting way of using his fight-happy nature though. (I don't see this necessarily as a redemption arc, just him swapping sides to do the same "let me fight powerful enemies no matter the cost" thing he's always been doing)

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I don't see them redeeming Zenos.

Gaius was a stretch and some people really aren't happy about where his story ended in the Sorrow of Werlyt quests as is. And he was a character who thought, from his perspective, he was acting for the good of the world.

Zenos is just selfish and bloodthirsty. He doesn't have any ideals he's carrying out in a flawed manner. He had his potential moment to redeem and change his path when he came back to life, considering it and then rejecting the idea. It seems highly unlikely they're going to redeem him now. I don't think I'd buy it if they tried.

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I dont like how they did Gaius arc but I at least believe that he was nowhere near as horrible as Zenos. He at least still had some feelings and I doubt that he would ever just kill his underlings for mistakes. Zenos just simply does not care for anything other than that one fight. For that he lets Garlemald burn, for that he will see the whole world burn. IMO Gaius is really an angel next to him.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Hmm I dunno how true that is at this point tbh. I mean, yeah, the blessing of light made it possible for us to contain the light long enough to merge with our soul shard from the first, but other than that what has Hydaelyn done for us lately?

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Is this a reference to something?

I'unno. Overall, while we still know basically nothing about Zenos' background besides "Hey, I think shit was done to him" and that opens up more things to learn in EW - folks here have said enough already.

It would make little to no logical sense for anyone to trust him (with what we currently know) beyond "uneasy, temporary alliance in the face of a bigger asshole" - but I trust the writers.

That and Zenos has always been a very... Strange character. Maybe he's just insane, but he literally does not think like anyone else we've seen in the story, and that makes me think "No, this can't just be that simple...". And despite all his relative chill/boredom to things going on around him in SB and the scenes he's in afterward, the annoyance he shows toward Fandaniel is a bit surprising from his normal murder-hobo stoic-ness.

Having covered the Vegeta parallel I will now address the "Maybe they'll pull a Golbez".

If there is a Zemus (Yes, I know the names are similar) controlling Zenos, then the character people have come to know and want to side with is the Zemus character, not Zenos. If the character gets de-brainwashed to absolve him of all his sins by virtue of "It wasn't me." then the character that we get as a "redeemed Zenos" isn't the Zenos we know, just a tall blonde dude. We can't have him redeemed by virtue of "All the bad things were done under brainwashing" because the things that need redeeming and make him a character with any character (as much or as little as people state he has) are the bad things he's done.

Tune in tomorrow for "He's really not as bad as characters like Gaius and Farolda."

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

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My money is still on him possessing Zodiark

Please, no. There's really not enough shampoo in The Rising Stones as it is.