MSQ

I just mash the escape key and click that skip cutscene button that shows up. Fixes the problem.


Flight was really the only thing they needed to add to ARR zones as that alone speeds up the post ARR quest-line immensely. That and adding very easy to solo duties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Like, I'm confused why people are surprised at the length of the story when this is an FF game and they genuinely are story focused over anything else.

---

/person plays a game part of a series well known world wide for its very long storylines

"Why does this game have so much story???? WTH????"

It's like being surprised that CoD has guns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

/person plays a game part of a series well known world wide for its very long storylines

"Why does this game have so much story???? WTH????"

It's like being surprised that CoD has guns.

---

Absent any other consideration there is absolutely nothing wrong with a deep storyline. However this is an MMO and that self-same story is an enormous roadblock to a sizable enough demographic that Square themselves went out of their way to attempt to mitigate it. Their first attempt was characteristically conservative and treated one of the symptoms their metrics told them (too many people gave up in 7th Astral). Whether or not anybody thinks those quests were just grand is immaterial. Square was demonstrably losing potential customers. I suspect them opening up the free trial through HW was another mitigation effort.

Very few people are concerned with the amount of story, just why they have to suffer through it. Convincing people to play is hard enough, telling them they have to pay extra just to play at the level their friends are playing at? "LOL, nope" is probably a much milder version of the response you can reasonably expect. The darker side of skips is that there's no going back. Yes there's New Game+ but there's zero reward for doing it. IMO that lack of reward is why having to trudge through the patch stories is so reviled.

If XIV was some weird niche MMO, then sure, it can get away with the gating. But it's not, in fact it's one of the very few MMO's worth playing and Square's investors know this. Be prepared for further measures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Very few people are concerned with the amount of story, just why they have to suffer through it. Convincing people to play is hard enough, telling them they have to pay extra just to play at the level their friends are playing at? "LOL, nope" is probably a much milder version of the response you can reasonably expect.

---

That's the case for every mmo though. No mmo provides you with the option to pay for getting an up to date well geared max lvl character. The best you can get is to pay to skip a lot of the lvling process but you still have to do some work to even reach endgame. Although it may be different for P2W games but I don't consider them to be in the same category as FFXIV.

Furthermore we have lvl sync in this game which means you can play with anyone who has unlocked any group content without depriving them of a good lvling experience by boosting them through one-shotting mobs. Lvl sync is a feature that can bring players together regardless of their lvl which is a wonderful thing. You don't have to wait a long time to be able to play with someone. Many mmos don't have a feature like this at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

If XIV was some weird niche MMO, then sure, it can get away with the gating. But it's not, in fact it's one of the very few MMO's worth playing and Square's investors know this. Be prepared for further measures.

---

I strongly feel anyone who doesn't like gating should stay away from mmorpgs. They all have gating whether it's story based, gear based, faction reputation based or lvl based. Gating is one of the main aspects of mmorpgs that make them what they are. They're known for needing a lot of time to achieve goals and this is hugely because of the various forms of gating you encounter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

If XIV was some weird niche MMO, then sure, it can get away with the gating. But it's not, in fact it's one of the very few MMO's worth playing and Square's investors know this. Be prepared for further measures.

---

I think at most we will see players being given the option to start a new character further in the story. SE said Endwalker is the end of the Ascian arc. Which means whatever comes after is a totally new story arc, which would give the chance for SE to give players the choice to start their new characters in whatever comes after Endwalker instead of only being able to begin in ARR.

I don't see the story losing its place as one of the major core features of the game because it is one of the strongest selling points of the game. I truly believe why FFXIV is so successful is because it wasn't trying to be a WoW killer, it's just being its own game. Unlike many other mmos it never tried to shove WoW from its place, it's instead providing a different type of mmorpg experience. One of the biggest things that sets FFXIV apart from WoW is how the story is told. And given the tremendous success of not just this game, but the FF series as a whole, it's clear that story driven games are not some weird niche. If SE removed the storygating from the game the lvling experience would become very similar to WoW and frankly one WoW is enough.

If anything SE wouldn't be able to get away with storygating if it was a weird niche because that would doom the game to have a tiny playerbase. And well I don't need to tell you that this game's playerbase isn't tiny.

If people don't like dealing with a story fine that's cool we all like different things. What I'm not okay with is people coming to a story driven game...and complain that it's story driven. It really is like complaining that CoD has gunplay. There are plenty of other games out there without storygating to play. I can't play first person games because they make me feel sick but you don't see me demand that the devs make a third person mode which would completely change the gameplay of many first person games. I just don't play them. The people who can't stand storygating need to realise that this game isn't for them, just like how I understand that first person games are not for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuroka

I feel its quite the oppisite, the Warring triad, omega, Ivalice should have been MSQ stuff as well, it is first and foremost a storydriven game and they limit and handycap themselfs so much by making so many things "side stuff" only... we loose out voicing bc of that as well...

---

Seeing how many plot points come out of THOSE "side stories"

Unukhalai's entire existence, the backstory of the Thirteenth, the Dalmascan Resistance which cameos in the MSQ and returns in Bozja, the whole Alexander and Omega storylines which become relevant in the Twinning and as such are relevant for ShB backstory... Heck, Eden itself follows MSQ by responding to the events of 5.2 and 5.3.

I feel the MSQ would benefit from acknowledging them instead of trying to write around them.

The only big "side story" content that really feel entirely irrelevant to the MSQ are the Shadows of Mhach and the Four Lords (which gets a lead-in during an MSQ quest, but hasn't come back into anything since). Even Hildebrand has a fairly important bit of foreshadowing, at least in the level 50 quests.

Gilgamesh summons a primal of Enkidu just by standing near a pile of crystals and wishing really hard. At first glance it seems like just another non-sequitur joke, but it foreshadows all of the revelations we get in Heavensward and beyond about the true nature of primals. To a lesser degree, Enkidu being so weak for a primal also shows that the quantity of crystals available determines a primal's power, setting up Shiva losing to Ravana because she didn't have enough power handy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

You're absolutely right about! Thank you so much for your generosity of spirit.

I've had too many old school gamer friends quit this game, prolly because they know better.

I've been playing Final Fantasy since it was on the 8-bit Nintendo and absolutely loved them, so really want this game to work.

But at the end of the day, those of us who watched a stump for days in our early days of MMO gaming, can easily recognize it for what it is.


Edited Note: FF14 is still much better than WoW, which is probably the only MMO it can compete with, which isn't saying much. But even WoW at first, was a huge improvement over Everquest.

---

Whats wrong with ending up not liking on of the Final Fantasy games?

I kinda understand where you're coming from - if you've always thought of yourself as a person who likes Final Fantasy it might not be that eayy to admit to yourself "Yep, this Final Fantasy just isnt for me". But thats still okay and frankly its a natural part of life in general - something at least I've come across a few times in my life (having to admit to my 6 year old self that I dont like orange lemonade anymore, having to come to terms with accepting that while I would like to think of myself as someone whos dressing in a "goth-style" it doesnt suit me, and - to get back to FF - dropping FF3, because it really wasnt my cup of tea).

So maybe you've recognized that FFXIV isnt a game for you. Maybe some of your friends came to the same conclusion for themselves. But thats all there is to recognize: That this game isnt the game you want it be - nor a game you want to play. Which is fine. I have no intrest in playing FFXV - I wouldnt consider myself less of a Final Fantasy fan because of it.

Sometimes, for whatever reason, things stop working for you - and thats okay. In my experience its better to let go and find something new and different to enjoy than clinge to something thats just not enjoyable anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

I've been playing Final Fantasy since it was on the 8-bit Nintendo and absolutely loved them, so really want this game to work.

But at the end of the day, those of us who watched a stump for days in our early days of MMO gaming, can easily recognize it for what it is.


Edited Note: FF14 is still much better than WoW, which is probably the only MMO it can compete with, which isn't saying much. But even WoW at first, was a huge improvement over Everquest.

---

Im mean due to what you said I am having a really hard time understanding your point of view at all, as you clearly dont know what your talking about.

1. "So really want this game to work" - The game obviously does work, it has a very large playerabase, and is coming into what? its 4th expansion, not counting 1.0 as the base game. The game obviously works and very popular.

2. "Edited Note: FF14 is still much better than WoW, which is probably the only MMO it can compete with, which isn't saying much." - QWow being the biggest Themepark MMO there is pretty much, properly has more subs even now after going down hill than any other theme park MMO out there and your saying its not saying much when FF14 is better than wow? I think you have your wires crossed somewhere.

Obviously your proplem with the game is a you proplem, not a game proplem. Yeah the game isnt perfect, the ARR MSQ isnt as great as the rest of the game which is a good point BUT saying you want the game to work, implies that you think the game doesnt work which is obviously not true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

Whats wrong with ending up not liking on of the Final Fantasy games?

I kinda understand where you're coming from - if you've always thought of yourself as a person who likes Final Fantasy it might not be that eayy to admit to yourself "Yep, this Final Fantasy just isnt for me". But thats still okay and frankly its a natural part of life in general

---

I didn't enjoy FFXII or FFXV and it didn't affect me much. Sure I was disappointed but it never occurred to me to even suggest that those games need to be changed. Other people enjoy them just fine. They're just not my jam. I just put them down and played something else. Plenty of other games for me to enjoy, including other FF main series titles. Ever since I experienced WoW change for the worse in my opinion I just don't waste my time with games I don't enjoy anymore. It's not worth it. I really regret staying with WoW as long as I did. Never again. Better to move on to something else that makes you happy. A much better use of time.

Probably not until the end of the saga, so at 7.0, but I imagine if they keep ffxiv as their flagship that there will be a sort of alternative intro, option. 200-300 hours to get to content someone was actually interested, and content designed more modern and competently, is going to become increasingly unacceptable to many types of players who would have otherwise been interested in the game.

On a personal evaluation of the game(s), I felt ARR had some interesting moments, many generally fun moments, usually story was interesting, minus getting people soup.., but there were a few moments I pushed through both in gameplay and story (absolutely not the worst mmo experience I've had, obviously what would be the point of playing a game you think was bad lol, but there were sections or moments that I did because I needed to do them, as the primary reason for engagement). Overall I also don't think the intro, past the cool cutscenes, is as engaging as one might hope. Imo FFXIV ages (evolves) well, improving and getting better as you go. Probably a primary reason I want to see the team with all their experience make a new one, right from the beginning. But it's fine if they want to carry on, they can obviously, just that I don't think all their best ideas and experiences are represented in earlier work and making that mandatory tunnel longer than the longest most well received sRPGs out there doesn't seem like the brightest idea to me.

To be clear I don't regret doing all the MSQ, lol, I enjoy the story- I can just see this sales pitch getting worse and worse each time they stack more onto it (better if you're deeply invested into stories first, worse if you're into gameplay and getting to the best experiences you had invested money for- since most hear about an mmo during media pushes like expansion releases), and I think utalizing MSQ+ replayability with a different intro could be good benefit (optionally). I bet the free to HW feature has helped a lot though, made the pitch far less aggressive sounding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GeminiReed

They tightened it up a hair but potential players still bounce off the 100+ hours of mandatory story before endgame (and that's only if they're skipping cutscenes). I certainly do not recommend XIV to anybody but the most hardcore story fanatics and even then I'm very explicit about the amount of story grind there is.

Story gating instances is just as bad as instance gating story and this game has both in spades.

---

Wow now this is a hot take. Then why is it that I know more then a handful of people who play this game and enjoy it (they have been playing for years) yet they don't really give a lick about the story?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

Ya know, when I sign up for the MSQ roulette, all I get is two 8 main raids? Despite the whole plethora of MSQ groups I've done?

---

You're meant to. It's for the two 8-man dungeons.

Hey everyone. The OP has been a member of this forum since 2013.

They certainly know why there's an "MSQ Roulette" and why there were 100+ quests right after 2.0.

My conclusion is that they're trolling, since there's no reason this couldn't have all been said back in 2015.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Seeing how many plot points come out of THOSE "side stories"

Unukhalai's entire existence, the backstory of the Thirteenth, the Dalmascan Resistance which cameos in the MSQ and returns in Bozja, the whole Alexander and Omega storylines which become relevant in the Twinning and as such are relevant for ShB backstory... Heck, Eden itself follows MSQ by responding to the events of 5.2 and 5.3.

I feel the MSQ would benefit from acknowledging them instead of trying to write around them.

---

The thing there (which would be improved by making them MSQ) is that the writers don't pretend something has happened if the individual player hasn't done the optional quest yet, so they can't rely on it as a previous event.

The exception with that approach is...

of course the Alexander and Omega raids (and CT at the time 5.0 released) but that's because of time convolutions meaning they don't need to have happened yet as long as they happen at some point in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

The thing there (which would be improved by making them MSQ) is that the writers don't pretend something has happened if the individual player hasn't done the optional quest yet, so they can't rely on it as a previous event.

The exception with that approach is...

of course the Alexander and Omega raids (and CT at the time 5.0 released) but that's because of time convolutions meaning they don't need to have happened yet as long as they happen at some point in the future.

---

Oh, yes, that's what I meant. Much like how CT was made mandatory for 5.3; side-stories like The Warring Triad, Return to Ivalice, or Alexander, should be made mandatory at SOME point, even if there'd be more complaints about grinding the story to a halt if, say, 4.0 required you to complete all the MSQ up to 3.5 AND the Alexander quests (Gods know how loud people would get over being forced to do Ivalice, which while my favorite raid series, is VERY long).

Otherwise it's like "Well, we can't bring THAT plot point back, because new players haven't done The Four Gods..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

(Gods know how loud people would get over being forced to do Ivalice, which while my favorite raid series, is VERY long).

---

Considering you are forced to do it for Bozja (An NPC from Ivalice is involved), I don't recall many issues with it. Maybe just never looked in the right areas.

Ahem one further comment re the Ivalice raids, I submit to my fellow Warriors of Light that perhaps that content will be more...relevant, shall we say, in the near future?

We all know how much Yoship and the team play it close to the chest..so call it a hunch, a gut feeling if you will.

Though they've already kind of did it this patch without telling anyone.

A certain farther of all dragons was conspectus by his absence when you went to wake his daughter, and even more that no one commented on his lack of appearance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

Though they've already kind of did it this patch without telling anyone.

A certain farther of all dragons was conspectus by his absence when you went to wake his daughter, and even more that no one commented on his lack of appearance.

---

Kinda sorta.

Just not mentioning him at all is rather different to specifically discussing that they can't talk to him because he's currently unavailable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Kinda sorta.

Just not mentioning him at all is rather different to specifically discussing that they can't talk to him because he's currently unavailable.

---

That's kind of my point though, he really should have been there, but there is a reason why, but it's in a side story that only makes sense if you've done it, so they just act as if he doesn't exist. Without the side story there's zero reason for him to not have made some form of appearance especially given it was speaking with her and you that finally got him to fully lend his support to you, but nothing, at the very least no one noticing this only adds to it.

What's the point in that?

I am a return player and I enjoy all the story FFXIV offers.
If you don't care for story and just want to go to latest expansion, then how about purchase the adventurer's tale in Mogstation?

Honest. I spent a month and I'm still in early HW. The way I see this will take me 3 months or more, unless you play the game full time.
If you don't value MSQs at all, then the time doing them are a waste. You'd be better off jumping to ShB content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

That's kind of my point though, he really should have been there, but there is a reason why, but it's in a side story that only makes sense if you've done it, so they just act as if he doesn't exist. Without the side story there's zero reason for him to not have made some form of appearance especially given it was speaking with her and you that finally got him to fully lend his support to you, but nothing, at the very least no one noticing this only adds to it.

---

I don't think his absence was that conspicuous. It's not like we had a reliable way to summon him before that, and he wasn't the one we needed to speak to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kiagenwa

What's the point in that?

I am a return player and I enjoy all the story FFXIV offers.
If you don't care for story and just want to go to latest expansion, then how about purchase the adventurer's tale in Mogstation?

Honest. I spent a month and I'm still in early HW. The way I see this will take me 3 months or more, unless you play the game full time.
If you don't value MSQs at all, then the time doing them are a waste. You'd be better off jumping to ShB content.

---

"The point" is that the creators have decided that their MMO is one that values story and makes it an integral part of the game.

If you disagree with their choice, you can pay to skip it or you can find a different MMO that caters to your playstyle.

Not every game needs to cater to every taste - I've tried and abandoned so many games over time. This is one that I do enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think his absence was that conspicuous. It's not like we had a reliable way to summon him before that, and he wasn't the one we needed to speak to.

---

It's not about us needing him, this was a very pivotal moment for his kind that he'd show up for so many other things, but not this and this being after that side story would have taken place, in fact he hasn't appeared at all since where you can logically slot that side story into the canon if it was required.
It just felt very out of place for me, the last time we spoke with her, he was there, this was such a large call back to that time and he was a big part of that moment and it being a big moment, and it could have felt far more genuine if he convinced her it was time to move on, not that it didn't feel right coming from us, I just don't see any reason for him to not have made an appearance other than he couldn't and there's only one reason why he couldn't have been able to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

in fact he hasn't appeared at all since where you can logically slot that side story into the canon if it was required.

---

Oh, absolutely on that front. We won't be calling on him at all for the time being, and it may strike people as odd if they haven't done it. But they won't explicitly say "we can't go talk to him because he's still sleeping off his encounter with Omega" and leave the player going "wait, what, when?"

At most you'd get a variable line making up some other excuse why he isn't available or we don't want to disturb him.

And I don't agree that it would have been more genuine coming from him. On the contrary, it seems far more significant that we convinced her to help us than for Midgardsormr to say that she should.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

80 quests before you can play Heavensward. Some are interesting story, most could be moved to side quests.

---

No. No, most of it couldn't be moved to side quests. Some of it could of course be made a bit shorter and more streamlined, but very little of it could be outright removed from the MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

No. No, most of it couldn't be moved to side quests. Some of it could of course be made a bit shorter and more streamlined, but very little of it could be outright removed from the MSQ.

---

I don't really see the purpose of things like ... "Forsooth, I need cheese, and wine for my party. Runeth to wineport and collect me a bottle, then runneth to the goblin and get some cheesy scrapings from his underwear".

I mean, i understand they open up things like Brayflox, but surely the warrior of light could get a more engaging story to enter the Longstop, than "get me some gobbiecheese so we can have a party".

Same with minfilia's deliveroo orders over linkshell. Running back and forth to do the most menial boring tasks. I was glad to see the end of her.

You're not the Warrior of Light yet when you meet the Company of Heroes. You're still a fledgling adventurer with one noteworthy achievement to your name.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You're not the Warrior of Light yet when you meet the Company of Heroes. You're still a fledgling adventurer with one noteworthy achievement to your name.

---

Heh. Granted.

But that whole 2.0 mess is still not a fun story line, and never was, even back in 2013 when I first struggled and gave up screaming with the gobbie cheese. Then in 2015 when i tried a second time and gave up screaming about the same point.

Even cut down, it still drags on and on with menial food-delivery tasks. Nobody can say 2.0's an engaging story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Oh, absolutely on that front. We won't be calling on him at all for the time being, and it may strike people as odd if they haven't done it. But they won't explicitly say "we can't go talk to him because he's still sleeping off his encounter with Omega" and leave the player going "wait, what, when?"

At most you'd get a variable line making up some other excuse why he isn't available or we don't want to disturb him.

And I don't agree that it would have been more genuine coming from him. On the contrary, it seems far more significant that we convinced her to help us than for Midgardsormr to say that she should.

---

That's why I feel they should stop trying to tow the line, they tried it with the Crystal towers till it just didn't make sense anymore and then they're doing it lightly here, it'll also come into play if they ever wanted to bring Ryne back given they even give the WoL a dialogue line that gives Gaia an entry point for the duo.
Personally I'd be fine with them just making things mandatory as and when the wish, but I know a lot of people wouldn't like them adding to the MSQ, so to me the best compromise they could make is give plenty of forewarning that X side story is about to become relevant for the MSQ and you should do it by X patch but keep it optional, from that patch onwards everything will just act like that side story has been completed, obviously that'll confuse some people, but it'll be on them as they had plenty for warning.
There's just becoming too much MSQ relevant information locked out of the MSQ.

I do agree that it meant a lot coming from us, perhaps it was more fitting, but still, given who they are to one another, if someone doesn't know about Omega, they'd likely of expected him to say something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

Heh. Granted.

But that whole 2.0 mess is still not a fun story line, and never was, even back in 2013 when I first struggled and gave up screaming with the gobbie cheese. Then in 2015 when i tried a second time and gave up screaming about the same point.

Even cut down, it still drags on and on with menial food-delivery tasks. Nobody can say 2.0's an engaging story.

---

It's kind of subjective there, while you can say it is long, I personally enjoyed it then, and when I redid it prior to them cutting it it down, in fact I actually enjoyed it less after they cut it down as I felt it lost some things I liked. I did find it engaging, so I guess someone can say it. Is it as grand as a lot of what comes after? No, but it is the beginning of the tale and they can be humble.
A lot of the issue stems from the mentality, a lot of people are "slogging" through it to get "past" it, it's a means to an end, a roadblock something in the way. I never saw it as that, it's just me going through the story, I wasn't trying to get anywhere else, I was where I wanted to be, enjoying the story.

Funny story, my brother picked up the game little over two years ago, he felt much the same, was "slogging" through the story, trying to rush, he wanted to catch up, to be with me, to be at the end with me. I told him to "Slow down, take his time." That I "Envied him having so much ahead of him and he'll regret it when like me he was just sitting patch to patch waiting for what was next." But he didn't listen, he just wanted to be at the end with me, he wanted to see all the cool stuff he'd seen in the trailers and get all the cool spells and gear, he wanted to see where the story ended up. So he played and played and rushed. Come 5.1 he'd finally caught up, only, he was one quest away from being all caught up, it was only a week till 5.2 was due out, so I asked him why it had taken him 3 days and he'd still not finished the last quest? He replied. "I don't want it to be over, you were right, I should have gone slower, I miss having stuff ahead of me." He now knew how I felt and he hated it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

But seriously, if you all think that 80 level 50 quests are necessary before being able to get out of ARR, your tolerance for tedium is greater than mine, and I played Everquest at release (actually before that, in EQ's stress beta), and watched a stump for a ground spawn for days.

Edited Note: Or perhaps my intolerance for tedium is grounded in my EQ experience.

---

Or our appreciation for storytelling is higher than yours. This isn't WoW where the story is irrelevant and so is your character. We are the champion of the story here.

FFXIV isn't even in the same galactic zip code of tedium as EQ1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

It's kind of subjective there, while you can say it is long, I personally enjoyed it then, and when I redid it prior to them cutting it it down, in fact I actually enjoyed it less after they cut it down as I felt it lost some things I liked. I did find it engaging, so I guess someone can say it. Is it as grand as a lot of what comes after? No, but it is the beginning of the tale and they can be humble.

A lot of the issue stems from the mentality, a lot of people are "slogging" through it to get "past" it, it's a means to an end, a roadblock something in the way. I never saw it as that, it's just me going through the story, I wasn't trying to get anywhere else, I was where I wanted to be, enjoying the story.

---

It's likely where SE are not using their metrics correctly. The slog isn't from the number of quests. It's from how boring the filler in the 2.0 story is, moreso in the English version where Haurchefant is completely nuetered.

I mean.. this https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/It_Won%27t_Work isn't exactly riveting stuff.

I just face palmed. Has the op never played a final fantasy ever in their life? I mean this is what this game is just on a mmo scale. This game isn't for you. Ok move on to something mind numbing for a mmo like ESO or tera. Oh I forgot. tera has dungeons that are next to impossible to queue for.

Wanna like NMS have at it but that's a survival game unlike ffxiv which is a mmorpg. Legit a different genre altogether

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

It's likely where SE are not using their metrics correctly. The slog isn't from the number of quests. It's from how boring the filler in the 2.0 story is, moreso in the English version where Haurchefant is completely nuetered.

I mean.. this https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/It_Won%27t_Work isn't exactly riveting stuff.

---

You or anyone else finding it boring doesn't mean everyone dose, as I stated I liked 2.x and found it engaging, even silly quests like the one you listed, there's nothing wrong with not liking them but that dosen't make them objectively bad.
Not every quest needs to be taking on Nidhog, it's like the saying you measure light against the dark, but if there's nothing but light... if every quest was full on action high excitement and spectacle, they all get weaker, you need downtime in a story to make the build up and crescendo actually feely like one. I enjoy the smaller less important quests because they often make me feel more like I'm in a world not a movie, a movie is often all the best bits, you never see the hero waiting in line at the store, but while not the most "riveting" stuff it's those kind of details that make them feel less like an action hero and more like a person, no ones life, not even the WoL's is exciting all of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Not every game needs to cater to every taste - I've tried and abandoned so many games over time. This is one that I do enjoy.

---

It's impossible to please everyone. People's tastes can be so different. By trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. The best thing anyone can do is make sure their target audience is happy. It's clear from the success of this game that most players are fine with the msq being the driving force in the game. If they were not the game would have flopped a second time.

I wish more people understood that something not being to their taste doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

I tried Persona 5 and I didn't enjoy it due to the required time management. It was a serious turn off. I'm the sort of person who wants to be able to take their time and do as much or as little as they want when they want to. I didn't think "oh god this game is so bad" I thought "this game is bad for a person like me" because that's literally what the situation is. Persona 5 is a super popular and highly praised game, clearly it's an excellent game for so many other people. It just so happens it's not for someone like me.

And the same goes for how the msq is the driving force in this game. FFXIV wouldn't have become popular if the majority didn't enjoy the msq being a core feature. If a person can't stand the role the msq has then this game is not for them. Simple as that. There are other games to play. I didn't demand Persona 5's time management be changed or removed. I just shelved it and played something else. Much better use of my time to play something that caters to my tastes instead of demand anything that doesn't be changed to the point that the act of playing the game would hugely change. That sort of change just isn't going to happen if the majority of the target audience either have no issue with the feature you dislike or actually enjoy it.

The msq isn't going anywhere. If skipping cutscenes or having the option to purchase a story skip isn't enough, go play something else that doesn't have a core feature you hate dealing with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

You or anyone else finding it boring doesn't mean everyone dose, as I stated I liked 2.x and found it engaging, even silly quests like the one you listed, there's nothing wrong with not liking them but that dosen't make them objectively bad.

---

No, it doesn't mean everyone will hate them, but just as you enjoy them, it doesn't mean everyone does.

There is no right answer outside a lot of people love 2.0, a lot of people are ambivalent about 2.0, a lot of people put up with 2.0 crying tears of blood, and a bunch just give up - maybe to return 5 or 6 times before they can get through it-like me, or maybe just to never return-which is sad.

After ARR it got better, and then HW was chalk and cheese and didn't feel like a slog. Look, if they feel it's hard going, people need to be encouraged to push through the 2.0 pain, the deliveroo-driving feeling will soon be over and more worthwhile things are just over the hill. Just hang in there and grit your teeth.

(and I still don't get why so many quests were devoted to this wine!? It's the one part of the story I never figured out.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tommara

80 quests before you can play Heavensward. Some are interesting story, most could be moved to side quests.

---

Having played through all the story to this point, and having replayed ARR since the culling of the quests, sure there's a lot of quests in there, but very little is just filler at this point. In fact, I'd counter that there's more filler in the quests within and immediately following Heavesnward have more fluff than ARR at this point. Like there's a whole series of quests in Heavensward about how Emmanellain can't seem to take no as an answer from Laniaitte feels more like side quest filler than anything that has any relevance to the main quest... and that's just one example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wereotter

Having played through all the story to this point, and having replayed ARR since the culling of the quests, sure there's a lot of quests in there, but very little is just filler at this point. In fact, I'd counter that there's more filler in the quests within and immediately following Heavesnward have more fluff than ARR at this point. Like there's a whole series of quests in Heavensward about how Emmanellain can't seem to take no as an answer from Laniaitte feels more like side quest filler than anything that has any relevance to the main quest... and that's just one example.

---

Haven't done it since the trimming, are those, imo, annoying food and 'go fetch Minfila' quests still there? I'm aware they were trying to say you start out as a nobody, but personally at the time they were current content I still found those quests very "I don't care, I reeaaallly don't care". I try to read everything, unless massively sleepy or too immersive accent lol (I do not like Limsa pirate talk .. XD, if it was spoken I bet I would love it though), but some of those quests had me a bit eye rolling "this is clearly side quest material, kill 10 basement rats". In a more polished single player setting they would often have nice comedy and "pizzazz" (or not exist at all), but I'd not give those quests that award of great moments of levity (I know someone was making the example of contrast, which is a good thing to be considerate of, might see that in like a Ghibli film where they spend some time looking at the environment for zen, but I don't think the moment was good enough to call it a good use of zen). Maybe semi goofy but purely memorable (for myself) by how annoying they were- they really felt like "go pick up the book on the shelf opposite to me". Some of that may have lended to why I felt Minifila was just whatever, taskmaster sure.. and perhaps realistically so, but I'm trying to play a game not experience the hyper-realistic internal growth of the coffee boy rising up through the ranks lol. You can tell that story more excitingly, and still not miss the notes of starting out as a small town boy (thankfully this phase fades, for the most part, they happen less and are more memorable in good ways later- I think it was last expansion had a really cute dinner moment).

If most of that was trimmed, then that's amazing lol.

Though I still stand by the collective amount, regardless of any trimming, in the long run, is going to be an issue. Say, as at least Yoshida has said so much, they keep FFXIV the flagship- meaning maybe another 5 years at least. Give each expansion 50 hours, if you're not beelining, ignoring everything else, and skipping all the cutscenes / dialog, and ARR which is a bit longer like 75 hours (or more). 75 + 50 + 50 + 50 = 225 hours to get to Endwalker. Hey Endwalker does cap off all those previous hours though, so that's good. So + 50 more though to the next expansion where it should be starting a new story. 275 hours. You can watch Friends, the entire collection, twice, before you could catch up to current content. I wouldn't be too shocked if they don't do something about this in Endwalker, especially given they're giving away ARR and HW for free, but I would really be baffled if they did it for 7.0. Some of 'the best' single player games to have ever existed, where every moment is a treasurable moment, take less time to 100%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

If most of that was trimmed, then that's amazing lol. .

---

Oh for sure. There are far fewer quests and many quests that are there also had the number of steps within them cut down. I can think of an example around level 25? There's a bartender in South Shroud that wants you to throw a bucket of cold water on one of the drunken patrons. Originally this quest involved going behind the bar, interacting with the bucket to pick it up, interacting with a point in the stream to put the bucket down, interacting with the bucket to fill it with water, interacting with it again to pick it up, then interacting with the patron to throw the water on him. Now, the bartender just gives you the bucket full of water to go throw on him.

The quest is still a bit filler-y in the "before I help you, I want you to help me" kind of way, but they cut down the time it took to do it dramatically.

Another one that really upset me was a 2.1 quest where you spent several quests helping F'lhaminn make a bottle of perfume before she'll agree to follow you to go see her daughter. Now when you find her, she mentions that she wants that perfume before going to see her, but then says that she doesn't need your help and will just pick it up on the way, cutting out all those quests where you were out gathering water and picking flowers, which was absolutely filler fluff. They maybe could do more... but I think they did a fine job so far and potentially they could look to other expansions now to see what can be cut back.