Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

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Originally Posted by Yasminou

Sorrow of Werlyt

I might be misunderstanding you but when she appeared, although I don't think she was named, the first option that I had was "It is good to see you, M'naago" (or something like that in French). I assumed that I had this option because I was rank 5 in her custom delivery quests.
Do you have her last achievement unlocked? Maybe it is the prerequisite for this option.

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Maybe parachute, maybe clown care. Some ants toot!

I haven't done any of her custom deliveries, and I got the option to say hey M'naago too hehe

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Originally Posted by Rannie

that.... is something i didn't even think of and it doesn't seem completely irrational given the past with the Ascians... You'd think the Scions would have thought of that knowing what they know.

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I don't think it's the first hint of it, either.

There have certainly been a few moments where they talk about Garleans being taught to have a godlike reverence for the Emperor, and whether that might be the Ascians angling to summon a primal (or at least have the ability to do so if convenient).

While that's a little different to the idea of summoning the "concept of Garlemald as a nation", what better form could someone think to give such a concept than its ruler?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I'm not sure where this fits into a reply or if anybody's mentioned it but as far as remote-tempering goes

Lore-wise, Bahamut remote-tempered Nael and Midas through the coincidentally(?) named Lunar Transmitter in like 2012, so there's that, lol. I think we're just seeing what happens when an Ascian has all the toys and no interest in balanced, controlled escalation for a Calamity that requires hyperspecific conditions.

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Definitely what I was thinking.

Something that's going to be nice about Fandaniel is that he's going to be a more competent version of Nabriales. No holds barred. Tempering by Bahamut is pretty whacky. He tempered Lewie Six(sorry raid mate calls him this and I can't resist) as they were both dying... and the tempering held when they both reconstituted later.

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Originally Posted by Yasminou

Sorrow of Werlyt

I might be misunderstanding you but when she appeared, although I don't think she was named, the first option that I had was "It is good to see you, M'naago" (or something like that in French). I assumed that I had this option because I was rank 5 in her custom delivery quests.
Do you have her last achievement unlocked? Maybe it is the prerequisite for this option.

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Ten characters

There has been a slight misunderstanding—I was just making a joke about how the scene played out. Her first few dialogue boxes don't have her name, but the other times they've done this gag has been with Namazu or other Beast Tribe NPCs, who all usually use the same models. That they did it with Naago, despite her very distinct appearance, made it all the sillier to me.

MSQ tidbit cause I'm still trapped at work.

So when Zenos picked up the Odenta, and then cast it at Fandaniel I was kinda happy. It's the DRK's i360/370 weapon from Stormblood, and I used it as my LP alt's DRK glam weapon for quite sometime.

It was nice to be able to recognize all of the weapons in there as well. I saw a Genji Greataxe. Seiryu greatsword. It made me wonder where they went to acquire all of those, since those are all of our past conquests.

It also made me think to myself, "Heh, Zenos is displeased having our *Ilberd impression* sloppy! seconds.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think it's the first hint of it, either.

There have certainly been a few moments where they talk about Garleans being taught to have a godlike reverence for the Emperor, and whether that might be the Ascians angling to summon a primal (or at least have the ability to do so if convenient).

While that's a little different to the idea of summoning the "concept of Garlemald as a nation", what better form could someone think to give such a concept than its ruler?

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I would also venture to ask

What difference is there in the summoning a concept of a nation and summoning a newly created will of the planet?

So my thoughts on the stories:

Werlyt

As soon as Mr. IamsoEvil told Allie that her brother was brought to a save place I knew that he was death. That she believed his words is just stupid imo and that she somehow missed him or thought that she could just steal it without there being a "off" button is quite naive.

I am not that annoyed that she survived because I do like my happy endings but its still sad that it was her and not at least her and her brother. But female NPCs just have a much better rate surviving in this game. She also suffered from some consequences but that was already solved at the end.

Redemption is also fine and I agree that one should let go of past hate otherwise you wont move on with your life but I do not agree how Gaius got away with everything. Of course he is suddenly the leader for the raid and afterwards will help rebuilt..after everything he has done until now. The only reason why he is on the path he is right now was because he was played by an Ascian and got his ass kicked by us. When Lahabrea revealed his plan he did not turn onto him...he still was like "lets talk later I need to smash these insects before me first". And I have a very hard time that he never once noticed what is wrong in his country...its unbelievable for me.

But I guess after all he has done he still gets a free pass unlike Fordola who has to run around with a detonator on her neck and still has to serve her time in prison.

Hopefully this was his major role in the story and hopefully that means that he wont be a possible leader of future Garlemald.

Nier

I was told we should wait until the last act because the creator of Nier loves to push a lot of story behind the last arc. Yet here I am having no clue how it makes sense at all. For me this is the absolute worst raid story until now, even something like Alexander was better.

There is no explanation to fit it into the game and the Nier characters who only got truly introduced in the last patch are already gone...should I have felt something when they disappeared? Heck I did not even feel much for the dwarf Sister. At least the brother is save but somehow on a quest to get more information...how? The first barely exist anymore..how would he suddenly get information on Aliens?

If we somehow get all the info dumps with these weekly quests than that would still be bad storytelling imo but honestly I really doubt we will get much out of it.

Rebuilding the city also feels kinda useless..its tiny and feels like most is still intact. Honestly the rebuilding should have been done in a week...

So yeah this raid is an absolute disappointment for me. Bosses felt so random if you have no idea about Nier, the tower itself was not great to look at and the story was barely even there...but at least the music was good.

MSQ

Finally Tiamat is free. Interesting that she too was tempered but thankfully we got her out of it. The dungeon itself felt great especially with her there.

I love that the city states are leaving their past behind and try to be better. Some might not like it or think that it will take the edge away but at the same time wasnt it always a point that they still had their own demons to face? But now that they are at least facing them and trying to change for the better, yet I have already read that this is not good?

Graha Tia is a delight and he and the twins will be my dream team for the trusts. I also love that Estinien was joining us and his (and Arenvalds) interactions with Alphinaud and his meeting with Alisaie were pure gold. I also loved that Alisaie was a bit jealous.

I really hope that Arenvald survives it but I guess he might be the change that is needed to make Alphinaud into the new healer job.

The towers are really creepy and I hope that we will deal with them over time. Also doesnt the story kinda hint that most of the civilians in the city of Garlemald are now tempered? Ouch that sucks. Thankfully we got our plot device Angel that will save them. (I just roll my eyes when they are totally out of Aether in one second and quite fine the next..)

I do not like the talk at the end about Hydealyn. Of course its good to know more about her but I really hope that they dont go into the directions that she tempers too because it makes no sense...we are not acting like someone who is tempered (we barely even talk about her and our goals are mostly to just save the planet and the people living on it) Also I kinda doubt that Middy was just able to lock away our tempering when he sealed the crystals...we also did not act much different there either.

And Ysthola should have seen something on our soul if we were.

Also why should she be disappointed in us? In the german version they ask if she is either to weak to talk or that we have fallen from her grace. But what should we have done to deserve that? She wanted to save the first otherwise she would not have sent Minfilia there. She told us that the Ascians are her enemies thus us destroying the big ones should be great...

I really hope that its just a red hering..otherwise we would have to deal with Zodiark and Hydealyn in 6.0 which already feels like it could be too rushed.

MSQ Thoughts:

Interesting to see that Tiamat is back. Was wondering if they were ever going to bring her back. The dungeon was very nice and a nice change of pace across the board. I was very very very happy to see Graha take somewhat of a backseat this patch(besides his stupid eye sparkle moment). Something i thought was interesting was when the scions were talking to Tiamat, they were goading her into helping them with anger by using Ascians in a general term(even though its only one right now) but then refer to Fandaniel's alone as the Telephoroi, separating him from normal Ascians.The tower thing is pretty interesting, and something i've yet to see people note is that during the Amaljaa tower startup, we see an odd blue glow(almost....Hydaelyn blue!) so that will be interesting to see what comes from that. It's about time people started questioning Hydy though, it took them long enough to finally address it. Maybe now more people wont be able to be oblivious to some of her obvious shadyness.

Okay.

MSQ:

Estinien was great. Fordola was great. Hope that her determination to figure out what's going on because of her own past with Garlemald means she'll have a role in 6.0. I don't know if SE would go this far but I'd like it if she became the Celes parallel I suspected her to be in SB and joined up as a second tank for trust npcs.

I'm fairly confident Arenvald is going to survive at this point. But we'll see.

I wonder if they're setting up Sharlayan as the big city next expansion. Sage is giving me hella Sharlayan vibes in general even not acocunting for Alph picking up the job, and Krile being sent their as an emissary? I could see us having to go there to secure their aid in keeping the world from ending. I mean surely even they could be convinced to help make the world not literally end even if we have to crack a couple skulls in the process.

Zenos still bores me but I'm starting to come around to Fandaniel. I liked that he didn't flinch when Zenos through that katana into the wall next to him. I'm still a bit skeptical at how quickly his plan was pulled out of the aether once Elidibus died but pieces are starting to come together.

Nier:

I did the follow up quest but not the weekly. So far my opinion hasn't changed.

I like the Dwarf part of the story. But the actual Nier stuff feels tacked on, like one of the crossover promotional events of the past except with an expansion's worth of raid content. I was hoping for something more, something to integrate this into ffxiv lore rather than just a vague interdimensional portal thing. I will be doing the weekly quests though because the dwarf side of things DOES have my interest and I want to see how this plays out.

The actual raid itself is great. Love the third and fourth bosses especially. Music is great. No complaints on the gameplay side just the story side.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I also had a theory that there was some kind of "Garlemald" primal that was broadcasting its influence to the towers, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I do find it a touch curious that Nerva and the third legion were mentioned as having mysteriously vanished without a trace, though. Perhaps he could actually be what's powering the towers as Fandaniel was specifically supporting his war effort, perhaps with the intent of creating a dominant figure in the civil war that the people of Garlemald would be channeling their patriotic fervor towards instead of it being divided amongst the factions involved.

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Personally, I think that

because Thancred didn't even entertain the idea that Nerva and the 3rd had maybe evacuated (the conversation only mentions defeat or tempering as likely fates), and the Garleans building the tower are just those who didn't get away in time, that maybe the 3rd are still out there somewhere. I know House Brutus was financing Nerva, but it sure would help to have some locals around to work with / speak to when we visit Garlemald in 6.0. I know we have a few other Garlean NPCs who could fill that role, but none of them could tell us exactly how things went down, and from a narrative standpoint, I feel like Nerva could feature in the plot to be our source on all of that.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

As Urianger pointed out, being tempered to a nation instead of a primal is something we've never seen before. And then, we learned that the towers are summoning primals. My theory is Fandaniel and Zenos are trying to, or already have, use the biggest tower in the capital to summon the concept of Garlemald itself as a primal. A primal embodying the idea of Garlemald and what it stands for, explaining how people could become tempered by a nation. And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

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Honestly I'm still a little wary about that idea.

As in, the narrative is clearly going in that direction, that there will be some sort of "Garlemald Primal", or at least some inherent "Garlemald concept" that the tempered are in thrall to, but the question that immediately rises is what does that even mean. What is "the concept of Garlemald"? What does Garlemald stand for? Imperialism and brutality, as in its incarnation as the Garlean Empire? Survival by subterfuge and diplomacy, as in its incarnation as the group of territories that will eventually become Garlemald? Old faux-nobility and not paying the mercenaries they hired, as in the Garlean Republic? A giant humanoid with three eyes and Elezen rigging?

The various tempered imperial troops we fight in Paglth'an aren't particularly talkative (I checked via Trusts, and they really don't have anything to say other than the usual "Glory to Garlemald"), so I don't know what they actually believe. Is the Garlemald they wish glory for the Garlemald of Zenos, of Varis, of Solus/Emet-Selch, of Gaius van Baelsar, of Maxima, of Nael van Darnus, of Valens van Varro, of Fordola rem Lupus, of someone else entirely? All of these have their own ideas of what Garlemald is (or they did, for the ones who are no longer extant), much less what it should be.

I admit the actual physical form of the hypothetical Garlemald Primal probably isn't important; Primal summonings in the story have generally kind of gone by what looks coolest, so that's probably going to be the case regardless. But like all the nations, there's too many interpretations of what the "concept" of the nation is. The closest Garlemald has right now is the Garlean Emperor, and, well, there's only been three, and two of them are dead. (I'm assuming Zenos is automatically Emperor, even if he doesn't care.)

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I also had a theory that there was some kind of "Garlemald" primal that was broadcasting its influence to the towers, but I'm not so sure anymore.

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I think there's a possibility that the tower in garlemald is going to be used to summon a super primal and our 89 trial.

I'd think that, if there *was* a garlemald primal, it'd have to be Anima, shown from the 6.0 teasers/info. Maybe Anima could be summoned as a primal that gives death to everyone as salvation, like what Fandaniel wants.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Main Scenario (Live Blog complete. Will compile thoughts upon reflection.)

Uh oh. Newly-crafted lore on how spirit vessels work. That's gotta be a "Please Look Forward to It" if I ever saw one.

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Ten characters!

I had been trying not to dwell on how the patch immediately following the events that established G'raha's overall party utility not only wrapped up our last dangling thread on Azys Lla, but also introduced a way said utility could be handed off to pretty much anyone else with no apparent downsides.

Or how he has yet to go against Lunar Ravana like we saw in the patch trailer.

Or how his addition to Trusts feels oddly temporary, what with no fixed role, or time investment required for use.

Or how he's close with a character named "Krile."

It's not working.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

As Urianger pointed out, being tempered to a nation instead of a primal is something we've never seen before. And then, we learned that the towers are summoning primals. My theory is Fandaniel and Zenos are trying to, or already have, use the biggest tower in the capital to summon the concept of Garlemald itself as a primal. A primal embodying the idea of Garlemald and what it stands for, explaining how people could become tempered by a nation. And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

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It's a reasonable inference IMO...

Not least of all because if you put the Garleans under a scenario where their beloved homeland is in danger, a saviour figure begins to make sense (this is not too dissimilar to the return of Xande from the grave, even if the means used for that revival differed.) Many things can serve to give rise to a Primal, even fear as in the case of the High Seraph.

As others have mentioned, they do revere their Emperor, but I wonder if Varis's short tenure will be eclipsed in that regard by the founding father's image - Solus, the same man who elevated Garlemald's status in the world after its harsh past. His clones remain an unresolved matter. Someone they could easily use as an embodiment of the concept, although an abstract design for the primal would work. Zenos would technically have the strongest claim to being Emperor, with the civil war abetted, so it may even serve to empower his image directly in such a scenario. Not too dissimilar to Thordan, drawing on the faith his nation had, with some extrinsic power sources on top of that to form a Primal.

It'd imply that their plan isn't so much to use Zodiark as the Primal of choice but as a fuel source for this other Primal, and it also makes sense of Zenos's words about the Empire. They wouldn't need to be so cryptic about Zodiark, I believe, because he is already widely expected to be the Primal whom Zenos takes hold over. This newly revealed approach to deal with "tempering" would also sidestep a lot of the risk that trying to control Zodiark would entail. All this would also be doubly anathema to Emet-Selch, our narrator for 6.0's trailer, so it ties in nicely there too... throw in his dark scion equivalent, Zalera the Death Seraph, and you have a way to tie One Winged Angel to Zenos, for however long he can keep it up...

I am also of the view, as some others, that they're saving Nerva as the "inside" contact for Garlemald, especially as his family had ties to the Populares. Gaius has been put to other uses, and Maxima seems to be more of a bridge character.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

It's a reasonable inference IMO...

I am also of the view, as some others, that they're saving Nerva as the "inside" contact for Garlemald, especially as his family had ties to the Populares. Gaius has been put to other uses, and Maxima seems to be more of a bridge character.

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Thirded! If only because...

Nerva is Legatus of the IIIrd, and Larsa's oldest in-series prototype was Alus, from Final Fantasy III. Even Zenos, who was a subversion of the numerical parallels at first, is now following in the footsteps of Vayne Solidor as an unrepentant evil with an immortal puppeteer.

We had literally no reason to care there even was a IIIrd legion specifically, so if Nerva wasn't important, they could have saved us the trouble by not mentioning them at all.

Sorrow of Werylt

That was a very good ending, and I really really like Allie. I hope when Gaius comes back to the MSQ (which feels inevitable at some point) Allie shows up too.

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I am also of the view, as some others, that they're saving Nerva as the "inside" contact for Garlemald, especially as his family had ties to the Populares. Gaius has been put to other uses, and Maxima seems to be more of a bridge character.

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I would have to guess that the bridge character won't be Nerva himself, but rather his kid Titus. If Nerva is either dead, tempered, or just uncooperative, Titus would be the last remaining heir to the Garlean throne.

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Originally Posted by catofsnake

I think there's a possibility that the tower in garlemald is going to be used to summon a super primal and our 89 trial.

I'd think that, if there *was* a garlemald primal, it'd have to be Anima, shown from the 6.0 teasers/info. Maybe Anima could be summoned as a primal that gives death to everyone as salvation, like what Fandaniel wants.

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On Towers and Lunar Primals:

This does seem likely, given Fandaniel's desire for a "paroxysm of pain and suffering". The Lunar Primals somewhat resemble the Dark Aeons from X/X-2. Lunar Bahamut being confronted first parallels with the dark Bahamut in X-2 being the first one fought in the story at the end of Chapter 2. And in that game, the last one encountered was dark Anima on the way to the final battle in the Farplane.

Not to mention, when comes to a "Garlemald" primal, Anima makes sense in a way: the Garlean Empire's entire existence has meant inflicting pain to the other people of the Source.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

Being tempered ≠ being a murderhobo.

Ramuh reluctantly tempered his followers only when they asked him to do so, and even then, he never ordered them to kill anybody. The tempered sylphs who are hostile towards you in the sylphlands aren't attacking you because they are brainwashed and crazy; they're attacking you out of their own volition because they are scared and think you are coming to kill them.

If Hydaelyn has tempered the WoL, I can't see Hydaelyn giving the WoL any sinister orders. It'd probably be something cute along the lines of when Lelouch geassed Suzaku and ordered him to "live" or something. Hydaleyn could have also tempered the WoL to protect the WoL from being tempered by malevolent Primals who would, in fact, order the WoL to go on a murder spree, like when Ifrit tried to temper the WoL in ARR 2.0 but said "hm... I can't temper you because you already belong to another..."

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I know that. I was just making a point WoL had not shown any signs of being concerned about so it never crossed their minds. You know like how people say "We never see this person do suspicious things, so we never considered investigating it"

Don't forget it is only recently they discovered Hydaelyn is a Primal and since there are no negative effects that would show anything of concern, there was never need to consider WoL being Tempered before during Shadowbringer MSQ (5.0 to 5.3) until recently due to now investigating the true purpose of Hydaelyn and Zodiark.

Regarding Anima:

Based on the design, Anima looks to be a creature that has been bound against its will. It also appears to be holding something that is presumably very valuable, since the same stone slab is visible on the artwork for the expansion itself. Since we learned that the mysterious towers are inhabited by beings bound within fleshy structures...I do find myself wondering if Anima is what remains of Hydaelyn, Zodiark or Venat. Such may not be the case, of course...but we'll see in Autumn!

Nier...

I haven't played the games in the series, but I found the Tower to be the best so far, be it in terms of aesthetics, music or the bosses - especially enjoyed the third one and the creative use of mechanics. Story-wise it does seem to resolve to alien invaders using a portal, so doesn't seem to touch overly much on XIV lore, beyond some thematic parallels with the main story stuff. Dwarf babysitting was sort of funny.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I would have to guess that the bridge character won't be Nerva himself, but rather his kid Titus. If Nerva is either dead, tempered, or just uncooperative, Titus would be the last remaining heir to the Garlean throne.

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Titus is Solus's second son. As far as I recall, lord Nerva is a cousin of Varis (therefore he'd be the son of Titus.) The reference in the story to Titus having no "ready heir" as at the time he attempted to assassinate Zenos could imply a considerable age gap between father and son (and possibly also first son of Solus and second, therefore allowing a sizeable age gap with his cousin, Varis.)

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

More musings on Werlyt, and sort of responding to Cilia's take on the fight.

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The answer is quite simple:

Just about everything in the Diamond Weapon fight we've already seen, and more dynamic at that.

Diamond Weapon's armored form relies on the powers of the previous three Weapons: Ruby's claw tentacles, Sapphire's chest blaster, and Emerald's disembodied hands. It's unique abilities consist mainly of explosions, which... aren't all that impressive. This version appears to use Shinryu's skeleton, albeit with unique animations.

Diamond Weapon's unarmored form is... a coked-up mecha Ifrit, whose main form of attack is knockback into a bottomless pit. It's... not a particularly novel strategy in this game, and while other bosses do employ it said strategy is particularly egregious here because you probably aren't going to die otherwise in this phase.

Finally, the backdrop is... and endless expanse of clouds. While fighting high in the sky on an airship deck is interesting, we've already done crazier stuff; the Bismarck fight is almost identical in setup, except there you're on a floating island being towed behind an airship, shooting harpoons into a sky whale while it manipulates the weather and throws endless flunkies at you... it's much more dynamic than the Diamond Weapon fight which is, again, just an endless expanse of clouds. You hit the Weapon and swap platforms to evade some of its armored attacks. Woo.

As for EX differences... I've watched some tutorial videos to get ready for it (maybe), and there are no major changes to the fight. It's essentially the same as most EX fights: same as normal with some tighter coordination needed, no AoE markers so you have to rely purely on visual tells to dodge attacks, and a couple new mechanics to keep it fresh. I haven't seen the "mutation" type animation anywhere; I dunno, maybe there's a secret phase with Zenos' combat data that triggers if you bring it down fast enough? (Probably not.)

Ruby had the Evangelion-style Nael hatching out of its back. Sapphire was a mano e mano mecha battle. Emerald was a complete battlefield shift, along with a chance to see Gaius in his prime. Diamond... is you beating on a mecha while riding an airship, surrounded by an endless cloud expanse. It's just boring in comparison. There's no "wow" factor.

To me, at least.

2/3 way through Diamond Weapon EX prog:

This fight is boring. For the most part it feels the same as Normal but with no indicators, which is never a good look, especially since the indicators were pretty much the only distinctive graphics the fight had. Without those you're basically stuck watching the text log for unvoiced text bubbles you ignored and doing trigonometry on the fly, since the floor is also entirely unhelpful for the first time since before Second Coil. At least it's not a circle?

The NieR raids are much more dynamic in comparison, even when they don't have indicators, or only have "you failed" indicators right as the AoEs snapshot their victims. I'm glad I main a braindead 1-2-3-er that doesn't need to watch hotbars, because otherwise I'd be on the floor. They're certainly the closest FFXIV has come to being an ARPG, even though I do think the timing is a little tighter than it should be in "casual" content.

There's also no special "what if" twist to it, unlike the Minstrel's Ballad fights, which is a shame. Would've been cool to see more of the other pilots' data, since we never had a chance to know them as individuals besides Rex, and Milisandia was the only one mourned individually, probably owing to her being essentially a posthumous character (and a woman). Feels like a bit of a backslide into the ol' "death matters, but not life," schtick of Pre-Stormblood FFXIV, and that's already me doing more thinking on this story than I wanted to.

Honestly, all three of Weapon fights don't differ much on extreme vs. normal outside of the usual lack of indicators, forced tank swaps, and certain mechanics targeting everyone instead of just a few people.

I do agree that there was a relative lack of stylistic flair due to it lacking a proper second phase and change of music, though.

So an interesting theory I had when Playing the Werlyt questline

Does anyone else think the area we find diamond in after it crashes and where Gaius fights Valens in look really detailed to be just a throwaway zone used only for a cutscene. I know some of it was used in the Emerald Weapon fight but it got me thinking what if Werlyt proper is one of the new zones added in 6.0 perhaps to get closer to Garlemald and recruit Gaius.

The Sorrow of Werlyt:

It's a shame that there's so few male Raen NPC's of note and that when we finally see some more, they all end up dying. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Allie was the only orphan to emerge unscathed. On that front, it was rather boring and predictable. Valens was amusing in a similar manner to Fandaniel. He also seems to be inspired by Hojo from FFVII to a degree with the whole obsession with dangerous and weird science experiments. Ultimately, it was obvious that the entire quest chain served as an excuse for some cool and flashy robot fights with some body horror mixed in.

I thought that the fight itself was decent, though compared to some of the other trials we've seen recently it's far from my favourite. I liked the design of Werlyt itself. It's pretty and as someone who grew up next to the ocean, I have a soft spot for the views in such places. I feel it was a missed opportunity not to use our fight against the Sapphire Weapon as an excuse to show us what Regula looked like. Worse yet, there's a lot of missing potential in Gaius not acknowledging that Regula took it upon himself to root out corruption from within Garlemald.

At least he's on the path to finally try and restore his homeland to its former glory, though. I liked his 1.0 and 2.0 self much better than his 4.0 and 5.0 self. We'll see how his experiences in Werlyt shape him. I think he'd serve well as the right hand man and military commander to a Larsa type figure, so hopefully he's being nudged in such a direction. Either way, he's almost certainly going to show up again in 6.0. Hopefully somebody gives him a memo about the Ascians and explains their side of the story to give a better distinction between the goals of the Unsundered compared to the goals of Zenos and Fandaniel.

YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse

Yep, loads of unexplained nonsense, as foretold by Salzman! expected of this raid series. I expect more will be revealed in the effective NG+ weekly quests, or something... the fights are fun (if rather difficult if you don't know what you're doing) and the music is great, but having not played any of Yoko Taro's previous works I had no attachment to the characters, and none of them have really done anything to endear themselves to me.

The philosophical denouement was interesting, but storywise... ehh.

Rambling about Werlyt and MSQ

Personally, I don't think they'd have Gaius ride off into the sunset to be American Shogun of Werlyt only to bring him back next patch as our "in" to Garlemald. But maybe.

Either way, at present I'm not expecting Nerva and the IIIrd to play a big part in what's to come. Were he so important I get the feelin' he'd be more than name dropped a few times as one of many contenders for the Imperial throne, who was ultimately nothing but a puppet of Danny Boy. Further what we've seen of the Imperial capital in preview material shows it's going to be a blasted ruin, and between confirmed and heavily implied areas we're going to Thavnair, Sharlayan, the ruined Imperial capital, and the freakin' Moon... and with the Empire having been supplanted by the Telophori, and stopping a literal apocalypse in its tracks being our main goal in Endwalker, sorting out the Garlean Empire's political woes is likely to be very very low on our list of priorities.

Extra notes:
-Crafted versions of the Byakko and Hades weapons were added (no Byakkos for GNB/DNC, of course); the former has ink blot effects, while the latter generates arcane rings like the boss'.
-The Easter event finally started today and only takes 15 minutes or so. Subservient Chicken makes his debut in Eorzea.

Nier:

Well now certainly lots of references to past Yoko Taro games in these fights.

Boss 1 : Emil and shadow inspired, perhaps the machines took the data from Nier to produce this scenario.

Bosses 2: Direct from Nier it is Yoko Taro's duo of just trying to protect themselves Hanzel and Gretel but you can't understand them until play through 2 :P I jest but I am really interested in what they and the 1st boss are saying in their code.

Boss 3: Red girl remains as creepy and ambiguous as ever

Boss 4 p1: Queen beast inspired more from Drakengaurd 3 than 1 and this carries over into p2.

Boss 4 p2: Kaine the hermaphrodite's theme is the remix and the boss has 2P's and a red girl's heads while adorned with the same flowers from Drakengaurd 3 set in Nier's Japan timeline after the white disease from the Queen beast from Drakengaurd 1. This boss is pure fan service while being very good fight for non fans. Bravo on this one.

As for the entire story not Yoko Taro's better works imo, there is more in the weeklies, but as is definitely needed more of a hook than what was shown. I'd like to know what Anogg saw when she went through or what world she went to because she really learned a lot about those orbs perhaps a bit of a teaser to Taro's next work.

I'll go over MSQ and Werlyt after sleep

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

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Is this where I put some characters? Yay!

In agreement on the almost quite literal broadcasting. Those things look hugely like RKO-inspired radio towers it's been in my mind for some time that's kind of what they do, maybe using lightning aether.

Enjoyed the MSQ overall. More dragons is always good. Also wondering when I can file adoption papers for the twins; they are my pixel kids after all. Fandaniel has another role in another life as Salacious Crumb - I have no idea why he makes me think that, but he just does.

On the subject of the MSQ...

I really hope they have the sense to just let us go investigate one of towers in the second part of 5.5 and that we get a clear picture of exactly what is going on with them; particularly how they appeared out of nowhere and what the deal is with their strange bio-mechanical nature.

If they can just pop up wherever Fandaniel wants, it begs the question of what's keeping him from just deploying them near the capital cities.

I'm also really curious as to just what exactly is tempering everyone with the mention of the victims only hearing a deafening roar and no recollection of anything happening after. We know from Titan's victims that their minds are normally being flooded with thoughts of the primal in question, whereas this "primal" seems more like it's simply mind-controlling people through sheer force of will as its victims seem decidedly less...coherent then the usual tempering victims who at times were able to pass themselves off as being normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The answer is quite simple:

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Passing strange from my perspective.

Well, to be fair, normal mode doesn't showcase its "just explosions" mechanics very well. Also to be fair, all of the other weapon fights featured mechanics we've seen before with mildly different aesthetics.

The two platforms are put to more work in Extreme. Diamond Rain aka "just explosions" deals damage and vuln stacks proportional to the number of players on each platform. This means without shields, having too many people on one, even if they are dead, will kill everyone on that platform.

The knockbacks in Extreme also have to be used to be knocked across the gap, sometimes due to the teleporter debuff being 10x longer.

The teleporter debuff is increased to 20 seconds, so that the teleporter can't be used by the same people, such that everyone has to use it at some point, people have to adjust.

I found it really interesting that Auri Arts plays out while Diamond is armored off in Ifrit-speed form. Creating stable aether bubbles to use as jump and pivot points is something we've never seen anything do, though obviously it's a retake on Ifrit's Charges from days of yore, except instead making clones of himself, he just does all of the charges in a zigzag by himself.

The unfortunate metafactor of all .5 Trials is the fact that they will be used to give out weapons intended to increase below average or late to start raider's chances of defeating the 3rd fight in a Savage Tier with their weapons always being 5 iLvls below Ester augmented weapons. They never have the same impact as trials before them. Shiva was easier than Ramuh or Leviathan. Zurvan was easier than Sophia and Sephirot. Seiryu was an absolute joke compared to Byakko, Tsukuyomi, and Suzaku. They are intended to be easier though, and so their mechanics are never as complex or as devastating.

Though, tbh, mechanically none of the weapon fights have really been that difficult to pick up. I find Diamond to be the most interesting, as some of them are actually new. Gonna rattle some comparisons off, after the edit.

Ruby Weapon's Reused Techniques
Quicksand = Sunken Temple of Qarn HM, first boss.
Red Orbs = Stationary versions of orange orbs from Burden of the Father
Dashes with half cleave = Retake on divebombs/ifrit charges mixed with half arena cleave
Group Stack markers w/ donut aoe = reuse of general aoes combined
Nael Adds = Reused Turn 9 mechs
Hide behind comets = reused LoTA mech
Catch comets = reused clash catch mech from Stormblood, seen in Susano, Orbonne, and a couple other places
General raidwide

Emerald Weapons Reused Techs
Colored Orbs = Orbs from Ultima hard mode mixed with orbs from Chrysalis
Donut/proximity aoes = general aoes
Knockback with upper body
Shared tank buster = double rocket punch from BJ
Spread explosions in phase 1 = spread explosions from T11/anywhere else
Cleave spread in phase 2 = Protean wave, except easier
Blue Sword Cross AOEs = Scarlet Price Cross Explosions from Nidhogg Ex/Midgardsormr
Sky Armor bombs = exaflares
Formation volley or whatever = staggered line AOEs in many fights with a much cooler tell
General raid wide

Diamond Weapon's Reused Techs
Laser stack = line stack from Phantom Train
Claw cleave = half room cleave with a twist
Diamond Rain = new to me, maybe something from deeper in an Ultimate than I've been
Line laser autos that hit two highest enmity targets/tanks = Ozma Cube/Leviathan/etc.
Proximity Tethers = Exact purple tether in Chardarnook
Proximity Flares = Lots of fights
Proximity knockback = used in lots of fights, but PK used to cross a gap you can fall off of = new afaik
Quadrant cleaves with alternating party members = First Limit Cut from Cruise Chaser with a different aesthetic

If you've played the game a long time and delved into most of the battle content, you see recycled mechanics with new paint a lot. The most similar thing to have two sides that have a unique method of traversal is probably the Antigravity Limbal vs. getting down with 100Gs in Deltascape. I like seeing a new twist on the battlefield, rather than new paint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Okay, here's my theory with the towers (specifically the big one in Garlemald)

As Urianger pointed out, being tempered to a nation instead of a primal is something we've never seen before. And then, we learned that the towers are summoning primals. My theory is Fandaniel and Zenos are trying to, or already have, use the biggest tower in the capital to summon the concept of Garlemald itself as a primal. A primal embodying the idea of Garlemald and what it stands for, explaining how people could become tempered by a nation. And then the beams coming from the smaller towers are broadcasting its tempering to other locations beyond its immediate vicinity.

I don't know how the Lunar Primals fit in, but that's what I think is going on in the imperial capital.

---

Remember Fandaniel's rant that he wants to recreate the Final Days. Primalss running amok was among many things that happened so I assumed it is one of the reasons. Still, the latest attack makes me wonder, considering Zenos' dissatifying comments about losing Lunar Bahamut and thus losing Meracydia's support (way to erase Meracydia from possible place we visit!).

Main Scenario Quest:

Questions:
- Hmmm... that incident with Arenvald may be the reason Alphinaud switches to Sage?
- Are the swords from the collection Zenos pick out from easter eggs from other FF games, or are they FFXIV originals? Are they swords from extreme/savage trials and raids or made specifically for that scene?

Not questions:
The scene with Allisae and Estinien made me chuckle and feel sorry for her. Same with the node where we set Tiamat free. The new dungeon (I forget the name) was really atmospheric and the music was really good and creepy.

Nier:

Nice Drakengard 3 reference! Also, the Red Lady was really unsettling and horror-like with her face flashing on our screen and that Cheshire smile. Really liked the rhythm game, and was surprised by the minigame in one of the fights. Overall much chaos and challenging content which is a big plus. Not quite sure, but I think I saw Emil's face flash on the screen a few times in the last fight. The story made me cry several times.

Question: Who were those sphere mechanoids on the elevator? (I forget their names)

Sorrow of Werlyt:

Very fun fight and not too challenging. Cried several times from the story, both sad tears and happy tears. Also, pop goes the weasel (god that guy creeped me out, glad he got what he deserved by one of his victims).

Main Scenario:

I guess it was too much to hope we'd see the being of light at Silvertear Lake in this part of this patch. I was really wanting to, though.

I'm glad, after so long, we're finally hearing more about Hydaelyn. I've been attached to Hydaelyn since 1.0. And not hearing from Hydaelyn feels like a gigantic elephant in the room that for some reason, no one was bringing up at all. I really want this to be a redemption arc of sorts of Hydaelyn after essentially being slandered by so many people during Shadowbringers at the revelation that she is a Primal. It really hurt when the news happened, it was a little heartbreaking for me. She's been such a supportive figure since the earliest. A comfort. And I really miss her. Say what you may about the shortcomings of A Ream Reborn. But they established our home, Eorzea, the leaders of the Grand Companies, and Hydaelyn as a supportive Motherland and home. Whether the prone to cheer and laughter, yet greatly troubled and exploited Nanamo, the stern and pragmatic, perhaps even harsh, yet reliable and strong Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn, or the serene and pure Kan-E Senna. To the Goddess we are introduced to at the earliest of Final Fantasy XIV's outset, to Minfilia, leader of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

Eorzea was not wanting for any kind of maternal comfort. Which is a thing of personal taste, but something I personally really liked, and made me feel comfortable in Eorzea in 1.0 and A Realm Reborn. We already lost one of them in Minfilia. I personally don't want to lose another. It's already felt much lonelier without her on our journey. What felt like a backbone of support has been shaken and shaded. I'd rather her return be a triumphant one, and her character played "straight" and earnestly, and not the trope of betrayal and "your closest ally was your enemy all along". Hydaelyn has been a face of comfort from the beginning, and it's been sad enough to see her gone for so long, only to learn that she's the thing we've been fighting all along, a Primal.

This has personally been the highlight of the Patch MSQ for me so far. As she's been strangely absent for far too long. And it's nice and long overdue for characters to be addressing what has been for long a very very important figure. "The silence is deafening", as they say.

I'm still on edge and worried, as there's been a lot of bad news, so far. And she hasn't returned to voice the theme of Endwalker. Not yet, at least.


While Arenvald hasn't been one of my favourite characters, I'm sad to see him injured. Though giving him time in the infirmary looks positive, at least. I'm hopeful that he's okay. I can't really remove myself from myself to talk about these people like they're not real, or what's good or interesting for the sake of storytelling. When anyone good dies, it hurts. A lot of people are good at analyzing storytelling, or say "if this person dies, it would be interesting", but I'm not that kind of person and don't look forward to anyone dying. I've no taste and no idea what makes for good storytelling. So while he isn't a favourite of mine, or anything, I am always sad when Scions and other good people die.

There's a lot of places that are in expansions without being confirmed beforehand. The fact that Krile is going back to Old Sharlayan, or the Sharlayan homeland, gives the feeling that visiting Sharlayan may yet play a part in Endwalker. Which would be nice, but I don't know how much attention they can give to both Sharlayan and Thavnair. I'm honestly happy with Thavnair getting plenty of attention. And am super sad to see Krile go. I like having Lalafells by my side, and am sad I'll be without her for presumably a while. With very good and exciting reason, of course! More Sharlayan! I just hope she isn't absent for most of Endwalker.

Krile is adorable and has a great personality. And I want more Lalafells, not less, in my MSQ interactions. We already lost Papalymo.

And on that note, onto my true favourite part of the Patch. Namamo, my favourite character in all of Final Fantasy XIV, played a huge role in this page! More than I dared to hope! I saw the various leaders in the teaser, but never did I expect I would see so much of her Grace again! It was wonderful! It was serious times, but it made me so happy to see so much of Nanamo! Honestly, I want to watch the cutscenes many more times again, just because it has so much of her!

Did I mention she's my favourite character?

Thanks Square! This feels like personal fanservice to me and all other Nanamo fans out there.❤️
She was really cool and a great leader, too! I guess I should have expected her to get some time, since we're dealing with saving/untempering Beast Tribes. Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn was last time. Does this mean that Kan-E-Senna will get her turn, next? I can only assume so. This feels like a trend of wrapping up each nation state with the conflict with their Beast Tribes. I would be extremely surprised if we're not going to Gridania next to speak much with Kan-E Senna and deal with Ixal as a beast tribe. Though from the preview, it seems we're also going to Ala Mhigo, as Lyse is already dealing with tempered. Poor Gridania may get skipped over, and we may just get Lyse instead. Lord Hien will presumably show up as well eventually. He is in the banner, after all.

And may I just say that the inside of those towers are super creepy and organic looking!? The look gross! Demonic, even! It was really grotesque, and almost reminded me of Exdeath's Lair in some ways! Also known as Castle Exdeath, you know, once the facade spell is over, and you find out it's made out of the thousands of people he's killed! Fandaniel does seem a bit like Exdeath. Bizarre and bent on destruction for destruction's sake.

I would like some answers. Where Hydaelyn is and why we haven't heard from her. Is Fandaniel really that one dimensional? What are those towers? And we didn't really get any answers. We didn't even get to see Zenos' weapon! In terms of answers, it does feel like both this and the last chapter have been more just a tease of Endwalker, and given us questions. I only hope that we get a least a little more hints and clues before Shadowbringers post-game is all over. May can't get here soon enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

- Are the swords from the collection Zenos pick out from easter eggs from other FF games, or are they FFXIV originals? Are they swords from extreme/savage trials and raids or made specifically for that scene?

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A lot of them are weapons from extremes and savage fights from Stormblood. I haven't closely scrutinized the scene, but off the top of my head:

Genji Greataxe
Diamond Katana
Seiryu's Spine (Great Sword)
Seiryu's War Axe
Suzaku's "Longsword"
Cryptlurker's Greatsword
Ironworks Claymore
Horde Greatsword
Odenta (this is the one he picks up in the trailer, and the one he

Throws at Fandaniel as a sign of his anger.

Seiryu's Rippled Longsword
Ifrit's Blade
Sophia's Longsword
Zurvanite Greataxe
Byakko's Longsword
Ifrit's Harpoon
Suzaku's Spear
Shinryu's Katana

I believe I also eyed a couple of the Bluespirit weapons, but I'd have to rewatch the cutscene.

@EirolOcarrol about the MSQ

I fully agree with your post. FF seemingly likes to go the route that anything god like is bad and needs to be destroyed at the end. I just hope that they dont do that or if she somehow needs to be destroyed that its not because she betrayed us but because its necessary for world and that she wants it too.

Honestly for me it makes no sense if she is suddenly a bad guy. Answers is still partly from her view, which shows her as loving her children. She shields us which weakended her greatly and she gives up Minfilia to help the first. The only thing that hints at her being "bad" is the fact that she is a primal but doesnt that fully depend on what the summoners wanted? Maybe she might even be a special case.

I also dont like the thought that we are somehow tempered and other than the one remark from Ifrit nobody noticed anything. Ysthola is able to see tempering, wouldnt she have noticed that our soul is different? Middy was able to restrict our use of the blessing of light and yet we did not change with that either.

Tiamat may have kept most of her own self because she is a high dragon but we are not similiar to that. We are still only parts of a whole soul thus nowhere near in power of her or the other Ascians. We kinda shouldnt have been able to keep our own self. And on top of that Tiamat herself would have lost it if she would have been near Lunar Bahamut too. We visited Hydealyn quite a few times, so we should have been utterly tempered by just that.

Her words that we heard first were Hear, think feel. She basically told us to behave like a normal living being. (And we only got the blessing much later with the first crystal)

But of course I also want to know more about her and Venat. I just hope that they dont go the predictable way and make her into something that needs to be destroyed too.

On tempering:

Tiamat is worried that if she goes near Bahamut she'll get fully tempered, so we set about curing her of her partial tempering. Then in the next cutscene we learn Lunar Bahamut can't or won't temper people anyway.

I guess it was worthwhile doing it regardless, better safe than sorry I suppose. Still though, I did think it was kinda funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

Nier:

Nice Drakengard 3 reference! Also, the Red Lady was really unsettling and horror-like with her face flashing on our screen and that Cheshire smile. Really liked the rhythm game, and was surprised by the minigame in one of the fights. Overall much chaos and challenging content which is a big plus. Not quite sure, but I think I saw Emil's face flash on the screen a few times in the last fight. The story made me cry several times.

Question: Who were those sphere mechanoids on the elevator? (I forget their names)

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Answer to the question.

Those two are the bosses fought at the end of Nier: Automata before the final bosses. You ride an elevator just like that and fight each one with a different character.

Can Y'shtola really see

tempering? Was this stated somewhere? She did not see that Emet-Selch was tempered.

It was still worthwhile

to remove her tempering just on the merits of putting her soul back to normal but yeah, seems it may not have been neccisary to fight Lunar Bahamut.