I will point out, once again, this has nothing to do with ERP. This is simply someone wondering what they did and a GM not informing them. Once more you are failing to read the actual point of this thread and continuing to try and troll us with talk about ERP to upset us. I am sorry you feel so strongly about RP and ERP communities, but if it's not directly affecting you, please see your way out of the thread. No one asked for you to express your negativity on this before you and another decided to say things about ERP. As a matter of fact I think you were part of that 3.3 thread that was deleted calling people to harassment as well. So it doesn't surprise me you would be here harassing others. I have taken the liberty of reporting you for trolling this post as well. Thanks for your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 10:55 AMZanzajin
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03-09-2021, 10:55 AMRavenEbonclawCorrect. When given no information, no reasoning, and being punished for seemingly no reason, is this not a baseless attack?Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 10:55 AMCerver"Youre being punished for no reason ok bye" isnt exactly a rational conversation, sorry Stalin.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 10:56 AMPentheaThis is far from the first time someone has publicly stated they have been tossed in GM jail and have to guess why, and not all cases are related to erp. This happens so much that it's unlikely that each person is lying. I played WoW for over a decade and you very rarely hear about players being confused as to why they were punished by GMs. Why? Because GMs there tell you what the offense was. Blizzard don't expect you to be psychic or assume you must have known you did a forbidden deed purely because you did it. Players in WoW often voice that they disagree that what they did is an offense, but I can't recall a single time when a person claimed to have zero clue as to what specific action provoked a report.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
It doesn't matter what the player did, they should be told what action provoked the report and the punishment. Even if they disagree that the deed was wrong they would at the very least know exactly what to not do in the future. Leaving players in the dark guarantees that some would unknowingly fumble their way into forbidden behaviour again without even realising it. You can't teach people how to properly abide by the rules if you do not tell them what rules were broken.
Never mind how misleading this is when you consider how the previous incident with GMs punishing rp adverts in PF concluded. It's clear that issue has not been resolved at all.
I love this game but the GM etiquette that staff are trained to do makes me facepalm so much. It seems so inconsistent and downright illogical. -
03-09-2021, 10:57 AMAwhaThat is not how GM's work in FFXIV. They operate on the grounds that you knew what you did wrong. If you did not know they do not want to give you any more info that could be used to witch hunt the person that may have reported you. It is dumb I agree 100% but that is why a lot of people say if you have a feeling it might offend someone do not do it ingame if you are not willing to eat a punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
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03-09-2021, 10:59 AMRavenEbonclaw
Is this not what blacklisting is for? Is this not what reporting for harassment is for? REAL reasons for reports?
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03-09-2021, 11:00 AMvan_arnYou keep asserting it has nothing to do with erp, but that’s the entire point of contention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanzajin
I very much doubt it has nothing to do with erp, in fact I see it more likely another situation where erp masquerades as rp an attempt to garner sympathy and send a witch hunt after a gm.
Just like the previous thread you mention. -
03-09-2021, 11:00 AMCerverWell assuming we've had forum topics that were literally calls to witch hunt 18+ venues (ERP or not) I feel it's not exactly fair someone can have 5-6 people report them with the text "3.3" and get them warned, because im starting to feel that's what this was. Thats completely off-base for this game where stuff like this exists for all players"Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
https://i.imgur.com/952agq0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Awk1bZk.png -
03-09-2021, 11:00 AMAwhaAlso think about though we have NPC's that smoke yet when someone asks for a smoking emote it gets shot down so quick on the forums it is not even funny. SE is playing to their community base, it is not a very logical one that is riddled with virtue signalling and morally superior tho types. Need to be smarter about how to advert and play the game which is a shame, but that is the way it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
We have a profanity filter and I still got sent to jail for dropping an F-bomb. If it made sense it would not be FFXIV. I am open to have a discussion about it, though I am in agreement people should be told what they did wrong when they are being punished. Sadly SE does not it that way, and GM's are fickle you can get one that understands, and then you get another that does not. Hell it could even be the same GM but depending on the time of day or mood you could get off easy or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
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03-09-2021, 11:01 AMShibiI find that statement rather offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:02 AMvan_arnThe gm was responding to a report another player filed. It’s not baseless; they just didn’t share the base with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
Nor are they under any obligation to do so. -
03-09-2021, 11:03 AMSomeRandomHumanA GM just said that ERP and ERP advertising isn't against ToS? Last I checked such content was against ToS. This GM needs to be kicked off of the GM team. This game has very dark implications and moments don't get me wrong, but I'm pretty sure actually acting out graphic sexual content is very much against the ToS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
I've talked about this "privacy policy" that the GM team likes to hide behind. It's more of their convenient excuse to "settle" issues faster. Any legal team worth anything would be able to prove beyond shadows of doubt that basic elaboration on the offense to help the accused avoid further issues. How is stating "it was found to be offensive and/or provocative" a privacy violation?
To the forums mods: Please pass this post on to the NA community reps. There's a lot of shady stuff that happens with the GMs and their, at times, refusal to be remotely helpful. -
03-09-2021, 11:05 AMRavenEbonclaw
If that's the case, the player essentially SHOULD not be held responsible if they do it again, with every intention of NOT breaking ToS, as ZERO context was given at all.
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03-09-2021, 11:06 AMRavenEbonclawEven police officers are required to tell you WHY you're being detained.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:07 AMCerverI believe the context was given in this case was that both people involved were in private and not around any other players (obviously its just a screenshot and not one firsthand taken, so I cant verify it)Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman
And yes, honestly the lack of GM communication is pretty worrying. Ive never seen another game in my life where GMs can just go "Hey, you've got a permanent strike on your account, don't bother asking why, have a nice night. -
03-09-2021, 11:08 AMvan_arnGms aren’t police, and Square can ban anyone for no reason other than they feel like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
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03-09-2021, 11:08 AMAwhaPrivate company. It does suck, and it is good to have the discussion but I highly doubt SE is going to change their tune. Just try to adapt to the new norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
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03-09-2021, 11:11 AMRalph2449
Pretty sure the Van guy is just quite obviously trolling and trying to bait you into replying to him, and low quality trolling at that since he is targeting the RP community showing he isnt very confident in independent subjects, RP community complaining seems to be pretty common here.
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03-09-2021, 11:12 AMAwhaSure it might be a troll, but in cases like this when it comes to someone's account I am willing to take the bait on the off chance it might be real. Cause getting a permate strike on ones account without knowing the reason is frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph2449
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03-09-2021, 11:15 AMRalph2449Sorry had to edit my post, meant the Van guy posting obvious bait to get the OP and others to reply to him, not the OP themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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03-09-2021, 11:15 AMCerverYes but with private companies, if they offer godawful customer support (see:this thread), things like this happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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03-09-2021, 11:15 AMSomeRandomHumanTroll thread or not, the issues with communication and clarity with the GM Team is still a very real problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph2449
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03-09-2021, 11:16 AMvan_arnNo, I’m just happy to see the gms taking action on inappropriate pf messages. Reread the conversation with the gm; they left a hint about what actually is happening here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph2449
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03-09-2021, 11:17 AMCerverIt wasnt an inappropriate PF message. There was literally nothing inappropriate about it. There was a venue name, time, and a carrd for more info. Unless youre suggesting putting a carrd in a PF advertisement is punishable by account death.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:19 AMRavenEbonclaw
My PF Message: φINSERTNONOFFENSIVEVENUENAMEHEREφGoth/SynthVenueφ11-3CSTφDJφINSERTSERVERWARDANDPLOTHERE,INSERTCARRDHERE (the card states 18+ in the rules section)
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03-09-2021, 11:20 AMAwhaI agree, but I just do not think SE cares nor does the overall generally player base. Since most people legit it does not impact them cause they never break the rules. It is a weird spot, as I said I am in agreement with ya and many others are. I just feel those against far outweigh our concerns so that means if it is up the us to keep our accounts as a safe as can be when it comes to engaging in a style of play that is not wildly accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
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03-09-2021, 11:20 AMRavenEbonclaw
Also it doesnt contain any lewd or inappropriate images.
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03-09-2021, 11:21 AMCerverTo be fair, I don't see how, and Carmilla clearly dosen't know how she broke the rules either, hence this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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03-09-2021, 11:22 AMPentheaJust because they can do it doesn't mean it's good for the game. If your players feel like your staff are inconsistent and unconstructive in their enforcement of the rules, then that achieves the opposite of making players feel secure.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
I once reported a message book entry for harassment because the contents of it were truly horrible. I knew it wasn't an in-joke because I knew the people involved. They were not friends. Well the GM basically told me "it's not considered harassment unless the victim themselves reports it". Apparently wishing someone is bleeping dead because they bought the house you want is fine, as long as the person you say it to doesn't report it. But a PF entry about a rp night club is a big fat no. You know what this tells me? That I can't trust GM policies to protect the community from the real bad eggs. -
03-09-2021, 11:26 AMAwhaThe same way a lot of us handle it. Do not talk about it in game. Sure in rare cases they may come after you if you are a streamer or something. Though by in large SE does not go after people for off site chatter. Have your adverts hosted on a discord or something. Sure the turnout may not be as large but it also allows you to better protect yourself by vetting people that do join. Since you also have to be careful of people that join just to report what happens inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
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03-09-2021, 11:27 AMvan_arnhttps://i.ibb.co/zbBwDGR/57-C2-C3-F2...3-DC68-B86.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
The mystery is solved here. The gm answered two questions at once: why they took action and that a 18+ tag does not save you from anything. -
03-09-2021, 11:29 AMRalph2449Sure you are, I bet you are even happier you are getting replies ;^)Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:29 AMRavenEbonclawThing is, they didn't confirm it. They didn't have to state "Privacy Policy" if this was the case. It's not clearly defined. I attempted baiting information out of them and they gave me nothing. You assumed it was that with my baiting, despite the clear response from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:30 AMPentheaAnd yet this contradicts what happened in the other thread. I don't know what to think anymore other than I'm not touching PF with a ten foot pole. And I don't even rp.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
EDIT: does this now also mean you cannot advertise a fc to be 18+ even though you may not rp at all and just don't want kids in your fc? -
03-09-2021, 11:33 AMRavenEbonclawEXACTLY! Where is the line in the sand drawn? It's CLEARLY undefined!Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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03-09-2021, 11:33 AMvan_arnIt simply means if you advertise publicly, anyone on the server can report you. The content matters, but everyone has “grounds” to file a report, unlike your message book scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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03-09-2021, 11:37 AMCerverYeah well you can do lots of things, doing so in bad faith makes you a terrible person and there should be consequences for those who file reports simply because they dont like the way the person is enjoying the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 11:40 AMPentheaThat message book was in a garden and the house was unlocked. Anyone could have read it at any time. How is this not public? It even had a F bomb in it, and that on its own violates the ToS.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
And again, does this now mean that a fc cannot advertise any sort of age rating even though they do not rp and just want to avoid having kids? I'm not asking you this specifically given I know you can't answer, but if we are to look at that GM's response it appears that this is potentially the case. Going back to the whole "things are unclear and enforced inconsistently" issue. -
03-09-2021, 11:51 AMAwhaIn the grands scheme it might be best to just operate under that premise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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03-09-2021, 11:53 AMCerverMay I ask why you are so quick to give up rather than try to get GMs to give a clear set of rules?Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha