What is ERP?

You could have just googled that, y'know?
It's not that complicated. Pretty weak as far as trolling goes. Haha

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

You could have just googled that, y'know?
It's not that complicated. Pretty weak as far as trolling goes. Haha

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If you would read the OP, I quoted a definition from Urban Dictionary, which was the result of Googling what it meant. I think the fact you think it's weak trolling probably means that it isn't even trolling in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I'd say Teppie made a pretty good response. There are of course people who blur the lines of ERP and Cybersex but the concepts are different. ERP is the RP equivalent of writing erotica or erotic scenes.

For me my view when it comes to ERP and RP in general is that it should make sense for the characters and the world they are in, because I treat RP as seriously as I do writing, because to me it is writing and is a creative outlet as somebody who loves writing.

So it becomes about the character and not the writer. So to me it's more like writing a raunchy scene like in Game of Thrones. And if comes to two characters doing the deed I think you have a choice of writing it out or fading to black. But to me that's where it's place exists within the RP world.

But there are people who like erotica as a genre and may go out specifically to do that, which is fine because it's a legitimate writing genre.

But some people use it as a reason just to Cyber it up and I don't object to people doing it as long as they are consenting adults, but I don't consider it the same thing. This isn't people writing characters in a story, this is people using their character as an avatar to engage in sexual activities, but may sometimes use an RP flair (hence my comment about blurring lines). Those people are probably gonna find themselves incompatible with how I RP. But to each their own, I'm very live and let live so long as they're keeping it legal.

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From my perspective there are basically two types of ERP.

There are the type who are seeking it out for its own sake, like the people standing around half (or fully) naked in the Quicksand, just looking to jump into some erp. This is basically text porn.

Then as you say, there are people who do it when it's a natural thing for the character, perhaps a natural progression of a romance plot etc. This is more akin to a sex scene in an actual movie.

The line between them is basically one scenario where the ERP is being sought out for its own sake, in the latter it just stems from natural character interaction.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

I'm not quite sure how to interpret this, but if any ERPers can clarify what 18+ RP is like I would appreciate the knowledge! No judgment here. I'm simply curious what you guys do!

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There was a fantastic and lengthy response provided as to what ERP (Erotic Role Play) is, I think it's important to note that 18+ RP doesn't have to be ERP. While ERP is certainly a set of 18+, it doesn't constitute the entirety.

Generally, the community flags something as 18+ when it may be a good faith effort to note where content may be inappropriate for minors, or there is a desire not to interact with youth.

Dating and romance for example, even if they don't lead to ERP are likely inappropriate for an adult to engage a teen. That interaction could be 100% safe for work. Some players will explore romantic themes and not conclude with ERP.
Gambling venues are another which the community tends to consider 18+. While allowed in the ratings, the community tends to policies itself, often due to real-world considerations.
The short of it, 18+ RP is indicative of played-out scenarios where an adult morally would find it inappropriate to have a youth sitting on the other side.

Something that if u look like me u shouldn't be engaged in nor asked to be engage in.

We need that 1950s guy who did all the work place videos and was in black and white to explain erp.

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

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I think this is of course where the clause about not breaking the law comes in and I know Yoshi P came pretty hard on that one. I think people who actively seek ERP and advertise ERP venues put themselves at a greater risk and I think it's why YoshiP in an interview said to report them and they investigate. From my reading, there are venues that try to do a lot to self-police and try to avoid this from happening.

It's a risk outside of the online community as well or through dating apps and so on where people can lie about their age. A 16 year old could pull off the look of a 20 year old and I don't know many people in the real world who ask for ID from people they hook up with. How this is seen legally of course will vary from country to country. But for sure, do everything you can to mitigate that risk.

Honestly, I don't know how much of a risk there is, whether it's a perceived risk or an active one. I think the view from SE's side is do so at your own risk but you break the law of your country, you'll have actions taken against your account. I wouldn't want to curb people's engagement of these activities, especially if we're talking ERP as in writing erotica and not engaging in cybersex but at the same time, not want to see somebody vulnerable or unable to give consent being exploited. A scorched earth approach or banning it out right if anything could instead push the activities underground, which could make policing it worse especially as these communities self police and from reading comments last couple of days it sounds like people who run such events co-operate with GM's, so I suspect if in their self policing they find somebody doing something unsuitable, they can report it straight away (people are less inclined if they're worried they'll get banned too), so I imagine it probably works that way, but maybe there is better insight from somebody else. Either way, I think the GM's probably have the best data on this to moderate what's going on, particularly as I expect it's something people report a lot especially after YoshiP said "report it" and he said they have legal advisors for lots of different countries, so I expect what they are doing to moderate such activities probably is going to be the most appropriate.

I'd say if somebody's gonna do it, be confident the person you're engaging with is within the age of consent and they give consent. For me, given how I RP, I'd never ERP unless I know the person well enough and trust the person well enough & it made sense and worked within the context of the characters and their point in character development and story, because I am very keen on what's called the "In Character/Out Of Character" divide, I am not my characters, I write my characters. And some people self insert into their characters and I wouldn't want to do this kind of thing with somebody who's putting themselves into it and that can create all kinds of problems that I don't think are worth it. But I am not so prudish that I'd avoid writing something saucy if that's where things led to.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Epic Raid Progression

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We actually got such FC on shiva, their short is ERP but its just raid :(

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

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A lot of it comes down to knowing the community. I don't take on clients if they don't already have a reputation in the ERP community because if they aren't an established person, as you said, there would be a non-zero chance of interacting with a minor if you're blindly going after anyone who tries to initiate. For me there has to be a 0% margin of error or I'm wholly uncomfortable with even the potential. For people that I don't have any trust in we just guide them to the bar/lounge RP and internally put a ban on taking it any further than that unless we can 100% feel comfortable and confident they are not a minor. Normally what happens is they request someone and we'll just brick wall them with "Well nobody is available right now. Let's just focus on progressing our characters storyline a bit more." I'd rather pass over 100 genuine adult clients to avoid that 1 minor who's pretending to be an adult.

Another thing is going with established venues minimizes that risk because there is no way FC leaders are going to destroy their reputation, their FC and their members by introducing that level of risk to their clients. Not to mention a lot of FC's may have 'anchor members' or people known across the greater ERP community for their skill, artwork, writing etc. (Not a real term for it, that's what I just call it) I know we have several members that have alts sprinkled around other FC's that are very well known. If they have you as a client it's kind of the gold standard of writing.

There was one FC leader on our server who willfully interacted with a minor, when the FC leader found out they were under 18 they continued to pressure them into ERP acts. That minor went to another FC leader with evidence on what happened, and that person got a pretty miserable reputation after the fact (Not that they were in a stellar position before hand but that's another story entirely.) GM's got involved, I believe the police were called there was this whole drama fiasco, and a good amount of people banned him from their events/venues/discords for that reason alone. They even got mocked in NN for 'grooming' which was a very well deserved reputation. The ERP community has its problems but I like to believe we draw a hard line on that.

I truly believe that people in the community are of the mind that involving children even accidentally is abhorrent. That's nightmare fuel stuff.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Honestly, I don't know how much of a risk there is, whether it's a perceived risk or an active one.

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Quite a bit honestly. We tend to lean on a few crutches when assuring ourselves that things are fine the way they are.

1) Online interactions are ESRB Unrated.

Correct, because they can't be. There is no way to tell what a live person might say or do. We're not on a ten-second delay with a moderator on the buzzer button, or dead air like in a radio station. It's real-time and unmoderated. Unrated is exactly that, not a rating. It's not some magical pass that allows for Mature or Adult activity. The game itself is rated Teen. Our ToS supports that by stating we should act appropriately for a 13 year old audience.

2) It's only writing, and is done in-character.

Well.. Raise your hand if anyone you've written with has broken separation. Raise your hand if someone has gotten "the feels". Raise your hand if someone projected. Raise your hand if someone grew attached. Raise your hand if someone used I/YOU when describing.

Now that most of the hands are off the keyboard, I'll continue. You can control you, not the other person. Then there is the pesky problem of "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes." Common language in those laws includes: "An invitation or inducement to engage in behavior constituting indecent liberties with or without consideration." An invitation. Not the act. Merely asking. Let that sink in a moment.

While odds are Chris Hansen (referenced in a previous post) won't come knocking, there have been plenty of arrests made for cybering minors.

If we within the community SOMETIMES have difficultly telling the two apart, how do you think those glorious words will read to a judge or jury.

I too am not so prudish to avoid writing with someone that I have developed a rapport and trust with. Running a brothel where the cost of entry is gil and some very subjective "age" verification, or standing in the 'Sands running off with the first person who comes along. Fire is getting played with there in a big way. It's only a matter of time.

If I recall correctly, a certain brothel on Balmung took heat a year or more ago, having actually included a minor.

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Originally Posted by Ashemmi

Quite a bit honestly. We tend to lean on a few crutches when assuring ourselves that things are fine the way they are.

1) Online interactions are ESRB Unrated.

Correct, because they can't be. There is no way to tell what a live person might say or do. We're not on a ten-second delay with a moderator on the buzzer button, or dead air like in a radio station. It's real-time and unmoderated. Unrated is exactly that, not a rating. It's not some magical pass that allows for Mature or Adult activity. The game itself is rated Teen. Our ToS supports that by stating we should act appropriately for a 13 year old audience.

2) It's only writing, and is done in-character.

Well.. Raise your hand if anyone you've written with has broken separation. Raise your hand if someone has gotten "the feels". Raise your hand if someone projected. Raise your hand if someone grew attached. Raise your hand if someone used I/YOU when describing.

Now that most of the hands are off the keyboard, I'll continue. You can control you, not the other person. Then there is the pesky problem of "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes." Common language in those laws includes: "An invitation or inducement to engage in behavior constituting indecent liberties with or without consideration." An invitation. Not the act. Merely asking. Let that sink in a moment.

While odds are Chris Hansen (referenced in a previous post) won't come knocking, there have been plenty of arrests made for cybering minors.

If we within the community SOMETIMES have difficultly telling the two apart, how do you think those glorious words will read to a judge or jury.

I too am not so prudish to avoid writing with someone that I have developed a rapport and trust with. Running a brothel where the cost of entry is gil and some very subjective "age" verification, or standing in the 'Sands running off with the first person who comes along. Fire is getting played with there in a big way. It's only a matter of time.

If I recall correctly, a certain brothel on Balmung took heat a year or more ago, having actually included a minor.

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I can understand all this and I think a fair argument. Ultimately, you don't want to find yourself in that situation for doing something you love with zero ill intent.

Reading into Teppie's posts too, it sounds like in the particular example they gave that a predator was ousted, GM's contacted, police involved and them being ostracized by the ERP community. It leaves me with the question is could that be a benefit to these communities also existing? Where the responsible members can be Chris Hansen? At least I wonder if them having an open, honest and transparent relationship (as implied get Teppie's posts) in their efforts to keep themselves clean means they stand a better chance of catching out people exploit or take advantage of minors versus the activities being banned? And thus not deal with in such a open and transparent way. It may more a question for those who partake and of course the GM's who moderate this.

It does make me wonder why if that's why they don't outrightly ban it when it has those risks.

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

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This. I recognize things will exist when I don't see them, I just don't want to see them. Exhibitionists should be unwelcome.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

It's the quickest way to get Chris Hansen knocking on your door, that's what it is.

I will say if nothing else, ERP'ers are brave. You have zero clue whos behind that other character and it just seems like rolling the dice every time. Which also kind of makes this whole erp movement on the forums atm a little weird. Of course I'd never be so disingenuous as to say others are actively advocating for this specifically, but basically a bunch of people on here are indirectly fighting for the right for 15 year olds to be catgirl escorts to promote themselves on PF... and it's kind of creepy when you think about it.

edit- I'm sure this will make some dedicated RP'ers upset. Again, nothing against you and I'd hope and assuming you don't want kids mixed in this. Obviously. But the issue is you have almost zero way of preventing or knowing kids are getting mixed in this... and that's kind of an issue with the whole subject in general. It's no wonder the GM's are trying to find indirect ways to get rid of this stuff.

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Most of the people I know that ERP would absolutely not play with a minor. If they found out they did, they would tell them when what they did was unacceptable and block them. I don't ERP but wouldn't anything long-term with a minor since I don't necessarily think the themes I like (war, crime, trauma, horror) are things I really thing kids should be deeply immersing themselves into. And you are right, you absolutely can't tell if kids are going to get involved in it... Sometimes, kids absolutely lie about their age. But should role-players get punished? I don't think so...

It's the same reason why most of the time, bars won't actually get in trouble if they sell to someone with a fake ID. You shouldn't punish people for lying kids. You absolutely can and should punish someone who is deliberately preying on minors though. But let's not pretend that even the average ERPer does that.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it'd be better to not have adult, or rather explicit, content on any of the in-game channels. As I said previously, I think SE is too lenient. ERP will exist regardless, but none of us should have to see it. Definitely not on the party finder of a game. Out of sight out of mind.

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To be fair, until recently, most of the ERP venues weren't advertised on the Party Finder. And from what I've heard for some people, second hand (so I can't really state if its true), is that the biggest "promoter" you'll see on Party Finder (at least on Primal) wasn't even originally involved with the community; they basically read the Kotaku article and shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil... Even alienating old members. I.E.: They are absolutely grifters, on all accounts.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

To be fair, until recently, most of the ERP venues weren't advertised on the Party Finder. And from what I've heard for some people, second hand (so I can't really state if its true), is that the biggest "promoter" you'll see on Party Finder (at least on Primal) wasn't even originally involved with the community; they basically read the Kotaku article and shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil... Even alienating old members. I.E.: They are absolutely grifters, on all accounts.

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All the more reason to forbid advertising erp in PF.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

All the more reason to forbid advertising erp in PF.

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I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

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Completely agree. I think people should be able to use PF for whatever content they wish to do in a group as long as that content doesn't have any sexual or anti-social activity (anti-social meaning harassment in this context). A line needs to be drawn somewhere and I personally feel that should be the line.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

shifted the focus of their FC to providing ERP, for the lulz and gil...

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For the lulz and gil extends beyond just one FC. It's out there, quite a bit of it. They aren't playing it safe, or even really attempting. This uptick you reference is from the very real arms race that's happening for customers.

Saefinn had a good point, some of it 'may' be doing good for the community. Some of the venues are handling things better than others. Most are dramatically better than much of what we get just walking in the 'Sands. Yet it really doesn't need to be front and center or quite so readily available in the public eye.

Running a venue for a long time (18+ SFW), I visited a number of venues for ideas and comparisons. Not once was I ever approached about age, no matter the establishment. More than once services were offered or emotes given that were very...direct. In other venues, there were fantastic conversations and well-thought-out RP.

Some of it might be on the people who are hired, but it still falls under the venue regardless of their intent.

In PF right now, a "cute fox is looking for a new owner", wonder what that one means....
There are a handful also promoting ERP directly with price lists, and a couple that word it more softly.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I won't disagree. The only issue I had, is the people who make arguments that no RP should be advertised in the Party Finder, or that was totally alright that standard role-players got caught in the crossfire. That was sadly something that was a thing in the other thread and I can't agree with that.

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I tend to agree with that GM, RP shouldn't be advertised in PF either, but at the very least SE should deal with the blatant adult listings. RPers should be asking for more social features, so we all can have a better curated experience.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I tend to agree with that GM, RP shouldn't be advertised in PF either, but at the very least SE should deal with the blatant adult listings. RPers should be asking for more social features, so we all can have a better curated experience.

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I'm going to ask; why? While I would absolutely love more social features, considering the stuff we having isn't the most antiquate... But I'm curious as to why it's problematic, in your opinion, that someone advertises in the Party Finder's "other" section?

I'll admit I'm ignorant to such "for the lulz" and gil dealings and aforementioned types of PF mentioned being the bulk of it as yeah I can probably then concede and say, maybe PF is not the best place for such things. ERP postings outside of that I'm on the fence for, if SE decided to action on those, I'd probably get why.

But I am in support of any venues who do the responsible thing and heck, self police to the point they oust people doing the wrong thing. And I don't think ERP should get the stigma it has on the basis it's consensual and between adults and of course, executed in private as it's not an adult game, which they tend to anyway.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I tend to agree with that GM, RP shouldn't be advertised in PF either, but at the very least SE should deal with the blatant adult listings. RPers should be asking for more social features, so we all can have a better curated experience.

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Whilst I don't see a problem with it & I think it can be very useful for that purpose, I can agree that better social features should be pushed and may be better, because if anything it's a good compromise between those who find PF useful for this purpose and rely on it to a degree AND not annoy those who don't like to see the PF full of social events advertisements. Whilst I don't 'get' the hard objection, but at the same time we're not here to try to make anybody have be a bad time and better social features if anything is a good compromise.

One thing I suggested in that monster of a thread is to have a "social events" feature of the Fellowship Finder where fellowships can advertise public events in an "Upcoming Events" section and I think with matching tags too. If anything it'd encourage more use of the Fellowship Finder overall and add benefit to what is currently a weak system. Something similar is already done across RP communities outside the scope of the game itself (And emphasis on "social" it doesn't just have to be for RP use and benefit non-RPers)

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I'm going to ask; why? While I would absolutely love more social features, considering the stuff we having isn't the most antiquate... But I'm curious as to why it's problematic, in your opinion, that someone advertises in the Party Finder's "other" section?

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I don't care if things are advertised unless that advertisement is for adult content in a game that welcomes teens.

I'm sorry, there is no further justification needed. Any defense of that action by players is despicable.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I don't care if things are advertised unless that advertisement is for adult content in a game that welcomes teens.

I'm sorry, there is no further justification needed. Any defense of that action is despicable.

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I'd like you to point out where I'm defending that sort of advertisement. I've made it pretty clear I don't believe it should be advertised in the party finder. I'm not questioning or defending it. I'm just curious as to why non-explicit content can't be advertised. That's what the person said.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I'd like you to point out where I'm defending that sort of advertisement. I've made it pretty clear I don't believe it should be advertised in the party finder. I'm not questioning or defending it. I'm just curious as to why non-explicit content can't be advertised. That's what the person said.

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Since it's not possible for a GM or player to determine what is 18+ NSFW and 18+ "I hate kids" then perhaps it's best to just nuke it all.

I'm not entirely on board with that just yet, but I'm starting to think that's the best solution. I understand the non-erp players want to disavow the ERP side when convenient, but that just makes the public ERP players rules lawyer their way behind the RP players to hide.

A purge may be necessary.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Since it's not possible for a GM or player to determine what is 18+ NSFW and 18+ "I hate kids" then perhaps it's best to just nuke it all.

I'm not entirely on board with that just yet, but I'm starting to think that's the best solution. I understand the non-erp players want to disavow the ERP side when convenient, but that just makes the public ERP players rules lawyer their way behind the RP players to hide.

A purge may be necessary.

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Punishing one group for the actions of another is not really a good message to send out or a good thing to do nor is alienating a large portion of their player base, especially if they've done no wrong. The thing is, they can determine it because they can investigate, they have the tools to do so. Going back to an old interview with YoshiP on the topic of Brothel advertisements, he suggested reporting them to that effect so that they can be investigated for any wrong doing. They moderate on case-by-case basis, not by blanketly going after people who fall into a certain group. I think if they didn't moderate on case-by-case basis we should all be worried about unfair GM actions being taken against us.

I mean often times ERP groups will do regular RP, not as a novelty but because they genuinely enjoy standard RP. It's not mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

Punishing one group for the actions of another is not really a good message to send out or a good thing to do nor is alienating a large portion of their player base, especially if they've done no wrong. The thing is, they can determine it because they can investigate, they have the tools to do so. Going back to an old interview with YoshiP on the topic of Brothel advertisements, he suggested reporting them to that effect so that they can be investigated for any wrong doing. They moderate on case-by-case basis, not by blanketly going after people who fall into a certain group. I think if they didn't moderate on case-by-case basis we should all be worried about unfair GM actions being taken against us.

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Perhaps, but when one group disguises themselves in another it may become necessary to remove the entire group.

I don't think this needs to happen right now, but it's looking increasingly likely this will be necessary if the community can't learn boundaries.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Since it's not possible for a GM or player to determine what is 18+ NSFW and 18+ "I hate kids" then perhaps it's best to just nuke it all.

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Two follow up questions, then. 1.) What about 18+ FCs? Should we not allow them for similar reasons? 2.) What about venues that aren't even 18+? I'm working on a Triple Triad parlor. It's going to be a place intended for casual role-play and Triple Traid. The only "adult" content is a bar... And since those exist in game, I really don't have a reason to put an 18+ rating on it.

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I'm not entirely on board with that just yet, but I'm starting to think that's the best solution.

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You sure seem like you're on board with it. But more on that in a sec...

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I understand the non-erp players want to disavow the ERP side when convenient, but that just makes the public ERP players rules lawyer their way behind the RP players to hide.

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If the only people that got hit by GM were ERP venues, I would have given exactly zero craps. Since as I mentioned, more than once, I don't think ERP venues should publicly advertise. In fact, my initial response was total apathy... But when I found out that it wasn't just ERP venues, but even some family friendly ones and someone looking for someone to talk to while they grind their fishing relic..? Yeah. But this sort of logic, we should ban all alcohol because some people drink and drive. Doesn't really seem productive.

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A purge may be necessary.

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And when I see hyperbolic comments like this, it makes me feel you really don't care about the children, and that's just an excuse to try to mock and make miscible a group of people you think are weirdos. You throw that in there, with the rest, and it makes your entirely argument feel like you're being disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Two follow up questions, then. 1.) What about 18+ FCs? Should we not allow them for similar reasons? 2.) What about venues that aren't even 18+? I'm working on a Triple Triad parlor. It's going to be a place intended for casual role-play and Triple Traid. The only "adult" content is a bar... And since those exist in game, I really don't have a reason to put an 18+ rating on it.



You sure seem like you're on board with it. But more on that in a sec...




If the only people that got hit by GM were ERP venues, I would have given exactly zero craps. Since as I mentioned, more than once, I don't think ERP venues should publicly advertise. In fact, my initial response was total apathy... But when I found out that it wasn't just ERP venues, but even some family friendly ones and someone looking for someone to talk to while they grind their fishing relic..? Yeah. But this sort of logic, we should ban all alcohol because some people drink and drive. Doesn't really seem productive.



And when I see hyperbolic comments like this, it makes me feel you really don't care about the children, and that's just an excuse to try to mock and make miscible a group of people you think are weirdos. You throw that in there, with the rest, and it makes your entirely argument feel like you're being disingenuous.

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Or maybe -- just maybe -- I believe every word I said. And maybe -- just maybe -- the more I read through that thread the more I am convinced a certain group attracted weirdos we'd be better off without.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Or maybe -- just maybe -- I believe every word I said. And maybe -- just maybe -- the more I read through that thread the more I was convinced a certain group were weirdos we'd be better off without.

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Very few people, if any, in that thread spoke out in defense of ERP venues getting hit. One person said they like the tags so they 100% know what they are getting into. Other people have mentioned there's a big difference between 18+ and ERP and shouldn't be considered the same. Almost everyone thinks (rightfully) that everybody shouldn't get punished for bad apples... Something I believe in every aspect of life.

But again... If you're so concerned about the children, we need to ban all those FCs that are 18+, right?

Like I want to believe you're genuine. I want to believe the most charitable thing of everyone... But it's also very hard to do so, when you seem completely find with people who just want to play pretend getting punished because of people do bad things... Doubly so when you use words like "purge", which outside the medical/health field has always had some rather authoritarian conditions and feels more meme-y that serious.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Very few people, if any, in that thread spoke out in defense of ERP venues getting hit. One person said they like the tags so they 100% know what they are getting into. Other people have mentioned there's a big difference between 18+ and ERP and shouldn't be considered the same. Almost everyone thinks (rightfully) that everybody shouldn't get punished for bad apples... Something I believe in every aspect of life.

But again... If you're so concerned about the children, we need to ban all those FCs that are 18+, right?

Like I want to believe you're genuine. I want to believe the most charitable thing of everyone... But it's also very hard to do so, when you seem completely find with people who just want to play pretend getting punished because of people do bad things... Doubly so when you use words like "purge", which outside the medical/health field has always had some rather authoritarian conditions and feels more meme-y that serious.

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You realize that expression you use -- bad apple -- refers to "one bad apple can spoil the barrel?"

I'm merely saying I'm increasingly convinced the barrel is now spoiled.

Yes, "for the children." Because it's still a game they are encouraged to play.

Square removed chat from PVP for toxicity; perhaps it's time to remove custom PF messages. That would be a nice workaround to remove run sellers, brothel ads, and feet pics. People doing actual gameplay party content could still form up and set PF accordingly, and statics could still recruit via the Balance.

Social gatherings could still find a place in community finder, but we'd need to look into moderation there as well-- perhaps preset messages. Kicking every social post off PF would go a long way into forcing people to find a way to make the community finder work, as well.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Since it's not possible for a GM or player to determine what is 18+ NSFW and 18+ "I hate kids" then perhaps it's best to just nuke it all.

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You could say this about literally any content. There's nothing stopping a creep trying to get frisky with someone they met in a trial mount farm group. Creepy NSFW behaviour doesn't always only begin with rp.

The point of forbidding advertisements in PF that are clearly for erp is so that the game isn't openly showing ease of access for 18+ sexual content in a game that welcomes minors to play.

If the game was 18+ I wouldn't care as much. Sure minors would still be playing but parents who buy their children these games are the ones putting them at risk for not taking the age rating seriously. In the case of this game, that is rated for teens under 18, by allowing sexual content to be openly advertised we are literally hoping for minors to have enough sense to know how to deal with this situation. I hope I don't need to explain to anyone why this isn't good (not directed at you, just to anyone in general).

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You could say this about literally any content. There's nothing stopping a creep trying to get frisky with someone they met in a trial mount farm group. Creepy NSFW behaviour doesn't always only begin with rp.

The point of forbidding advertisements in PF that are clearly for erp is so that the game isn't openly showing ease of access for 18+ sexual content in a game that welcomes minors to play.

If the game was 18+ I wouldn't care as much. Sure minors would still be playing but parents who buy their children these games are the ones putting them at risk for not taking the age rating seriously. In the case of this game, that is rated for teens under 18, by allowing sexual content to be openly advertised we are literally hoping for minors to have enough sense to know how to deal with this situation. I hope I don't need to explain to anyone why this isn't good (not directed at you, just to anyone in general).

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It can, but the issue at hand is how a small group of creeps (public advertising explicit rp, groomers) is finding safe harbor in a larger group (the general RP community.) The bad apple analogy isn't far off; they're the bad apples spreading their rot and ruining the barrel. Since they're not getting removed from the barrel, it no longer really matters which individual apple is rotten; the whole barrel might need to be tossed out.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

It can, but the issue at hand is how a small group of creeps (public advertising explicit rp) is finding safe harbor in a larger group. The bad apple analogy isn't far off; they're the bad apples spreading their rot to the rest of the RP community. Since they're not getting removed from the barrel, it no longer really matters which individual apple is rotten; the whole barrel might need to be tossed out.

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The thing is this will not work unless SE explicitly ban all forms of open erp advertisement. If these people are only blocked from using PF they'll just use something else feeling safe knowing they can't get banned for it. Sure other forms of advertisement aren't as far reaching as PF, but go to Limsa in peak hours on the weekend...so many potential customers!

If SE banned open advertisement of erp in any public channel, then we could still have other rpers use PF without having to endure the prostitute listings, as long as players report them of course. If people find out that they could get in real trouble if they're caught that will certainly be enough of a deterrent for many players.

There is no need to sweep all rpers and toss them in the same box when it's possible to target the actual problem.

And lets say SE do ban all rp advertisements from PF, well we would still have to hope they would get reported which is the exact same as hoping erp advertisements would get reported...so I see little point in banning all rp listings if the method of dealing with only erp would be the same. No need to punish everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The thing is this will not work unless SE explicitly ban all forms of open erp advertisement. If these people are only blocked from using PF they'll just use something else feeling safe knowing they can't get banned for it. Sure other forms of advertisement aren't as far reaching as PF, but go to Limsa in peak hours on the weekend...so many potential customers!

If SE banned open advertisement of erp in any public channel, then we could still have other rpers use PF without having to endure the prostitute listings, as long as players report them of course. If people find out that they could get in real trouble if they're caught that will certainly be enough of a deterrent for many players.

There is no need to sweep all rpers and toss them in the same box when it's possible to target the actual problem.

And lets say SE do ban all rp advertisements from PF, well we would still have to hope they would get reported which is the exact same as hoping erp advertisements would get reported...so I see little point in banning all rp listings if the method of dealing with only erp would be the same. No need to punish everyone.

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I don't disagree, ultimately the bad apples need to be removed before they ruin the barrel. The issue is timing, and Square seems to be content to just sit on this for now.

That's only going to make it necessary to remove more "bad apples" as time goes on. Perhaps they're just sitting on it now because they've waited too long.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I don't disagree, ultimately the bad apples need to be removed before they ruin the barrel. The issue is timing, and Square seems to be content to just sit on this for now.

That's only going to make things worse.

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Yea I'm not a fan of that. They could at least put a rp tab in PF. That can't be complicated to implement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by van_arn

You realize that expression you use -- bad apple -- refers to "one bad apple can spoil the barrel?"

I'm merely saying I'm increasingly convinced the barrel is now spoiled.

Yes, "for the children." Because it's still a game they are encouraged to play.

Square removed chat from PVP for toxicity; perhaps it's time to remove custom PF messages. That would be a nice workaround to remove run sellers, brothel ads, and feet pics. People doing actual gameplay party content could still form up and set PF accordingly, and statics could still recruit via the Balance.

Social gatherings could still find a place in community finder, but we'd need to look into moderation there as well-- perhaps preset messages. Kicking every social post off PF would go a long way into forcing people to find a way to make the community finder work, as well.

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One bad apple spoils can spoil the bunch, but you don't suddenly make it so that no one can ever eat apples again. But to be very clear... "for the children", you absolutely think that every 18+ FC should have to close its doors and stop recruiting?

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

One bad apple spoils can spoil the bunch, but you don't suddenly make it so that no one can ever eat apples again. But to be very clear... "for the children", you absolutely think that every 18+ FC should have to close its doors and stop recruiting?

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No, I'm simply saying the GMs need to take out the trash. The longer the wait, the more trash they'll need to take out.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

I don't what to be that person, especially since I don't ERP, but I don't think anyone with the user name lolicon can judge anyone for anything...

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I'm not "judging" tho, that's why i wrote "IMO". I really REALLY don't understand where's the fun part on being idle, just writing some kind of lewd stuff for hours; especially in a game with a monthly sub.

Also, nah, my username does not prevent me from doing anything

...well, you see...when a miqo'te and an au ra love each other very very much...