Zenos too stupid to be a villain?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Zenos isn't really angry, he is apathetic; bored. Looking for a thrill, that only the WoL can give him. He is mysterious, highly intelligent, capable. Everything is simply a nuisance to him, just something between him and his quarry.

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My main point isn't to say he's angry, but what things make him so. Rules of writing are to make your characters sympathetic - relatable through their reasoning and actions. What makes him human.
The traits you just listed are extremely one dimensional. He's bored and I'm bored. Being highly intelligent, bored, or obsessed doesn't equal amazing character writing.

I imagine if we did find one thing Zenos cared about, something that completely changed his directive for battle, he'd becoming so much more in-depth.
ahhh, but this is just my own frustration with Zenos. He can be so much more, and at this point of his writing I agree that he needs to be gone if he isn't going to evolve past what he is.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

He's bored and I'm bored.

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Yeah, this sums up my feelings perfectly. At this point I feel like I'm sitting next to someone and asking them "what do YOU wanna do?" and having them reciprocate the same question with "I dunno, what do YOU wanna do?!", and this has gone on for years.

I wouldn't say Zenos is stupid. He knows the best way to get our attention is to cause mayhem and bringing about the end of the world is a big way to draw our attention.

If anything Zenos is just insane, psychotic and desperate. He has no issue killing anyone in his way be they family or friend. He doesn't care if the world ends or if he dies so long as he get's to fight us. He is hollow shell of a person who feels nothing but fighting us made him feel something and he is desperate to feel that again.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

My main point isn't to say he's angry, but what things make him so. Rules of writing are to make your characters sympathetic - relatable through their reasoning and actions. What makes him human.
The traits you just listed are extremely one dimensional. He's bored and I'm bored. Being highly intelligent, bored, or obsessed doesn't equal amazing character writing.

I imagine if we did find one thing Zenos cared about, something that completely changed his directive for battle, he'd becoming so much more in-depth.
ahhh, but this is just my own frustration with Zenos. He can be so much more, and at this point of his writing I agree that he needs to be gone if he isn't going to evolve past what he is.

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What makes him angry are things that get between him and the hunt. Make no mistake, Zenos would destroy Fandaniel without a second thought, if he had the audacity to get between him and his "friend". I think he is fine as is. He is a good villain. I don't want to know "what makes him human". He is a monster; a predator, and he should remain as such. I think he is an excellently written character, in relation to the story we have had for the past several years. "Do what you will".

The trailer shows this off his character perfectly. When he is sitting in his throne, not even watching the destruction all around him, bored. Everything, his demeanor, the music, all well done.

https://youtu.be/7-bkJ2ZoW6k?t=136

The way he looks at the moon, his hunt is there.

My gripe with him is his single-mindedness while I thought he was brilliant in stormblood all his reappearances have not really added to him in anyway besides showing that he is strong and nihilistic to p much everything bar us, I am hoping with endwalker he becomes a very interesting antagonist or a taunting figure mocking us so we hate him more to drive the desire to fight but atm I have no drive to fight zenos or fandaniel until I get a bit more of the.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

What makes him angry ? What triggers his emotions ?

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I got a sense that he might have become annoyed, for a second, at Fandaniel, when Fandaniel boasted that he might've burnt the WoL a little bit when he made his appearance. "Do you want to die?" Of course, that could be taken different ways. Was Zenos jealous? Was he irritated? Or was he calling Fandaniel weak, in that he wouldn't be able to withstand the WoL's retaliation if provoked?

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Originally Posted by Kikoten

I got a sense that he might have become annoyed, for a second, at Fandaniel, when Fandaniel boasted that he might've burnt the WoL a little bit when he made his appearance. "Do you want to die?" Of course, that could be taken different ways. Was Zenos jealous? Was he irritated? Or was he calling Fandaniel weak, in that he wouldn't be able to withstand the WoL's retaliation if provoked?

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I think he truly sees the WoL as a friend in his own twisted way, so he was probably both irritated and jealous.

I think it’s less stupidity and more a one tracked mind and boredom with life in general.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I like Zenos. He's refreshing. Single-minded. Doesn't care about the world. I think he is actually highly intelligent.

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I thought the game at this point made it clear he IS very intelligent and downright cunning, but it's just that he is hyper focused on having the greatest duel of all time with the WoL.
Dunno why people always think he's dumb just cause he wants to fight us to the death, its not impossible to have a sole focus.

I don't know when it was that I started liking Zenos. I remember feeling complete disdain for him shortly after he came back. I even criticized SE for writing him back into the ever going play that is FFXIV. After Emet-Selch, I remember thinking, "Now we have to deal with Zenos again? Jesus Christ..."

I think Zenos is the only enemy we've ever had that we could even come close to calling an equal. It made me think about what I, the main character in my own world, am fighting for. What do I want more than anything? For the story to end? Of course not. I want resolution. I feel like I'm really connecting with Zenos here. I want something spectacular. Well, so does he. I want to fight Zenos because I want something spectacular. Zenos wants to fight me (us), because he wants something spectacular. In a crazy way, it's like a match made in heaven.

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Originally Posted by AvenoMatt

I wouldn't say Zenos is stupid. He knows the best way to get our attention is to cause mayhem and bringing about the end of the world is a big way to draw our attention.

If anything Zenos is just insane, psychotic and desperate. He has no issue killing anyone in his way be they family or friend. He doesn't care if the world ends or if he dies so long as he get's to fight us. He is hollow shell of a person who feels nothing but fighting us made him feel something and he is desperate to feel that again.

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I get this perspective, and I think this is what they want us to feel about him. I just think they've utterly failed at doing so. We basically just see him sitting on a throne looking bored and doing nothing. As much as they want us to feel him trying to move heaven and earth to have his much desired fated duel, it feels like he's just sitting there while everyone else is actually doing everything. As much as they want us to feel like he cares, desperately to the depth of his very being, to fight the WoL.. they just show him sitting on a throne bored. Even now with Fandaniel, it's Fandaniel that's the one making the moves to bring about The End. Zenos only seemed to care a little when Fandaniel told him that he had placed the WoL in potential harms way.

I don't at all think Zenos is stupid or lacking intelligence, He doesn't need a sob story or some deep background that makes us care about him. He doesn't even need anything more than pure, animal instinct and drive. I just don't feel like he cares anywhere near as much about what he supposedly cares about as he says he does. He could be a complete blank slate of pure threat and danger, and it would be refreshing at this point for him to be just that, but he isn't that.. he's just a dude who sits bored on a throne while everyone else does everything. Ranjit felt like a much more present, single minded threat because he, you know, actually did something and actually talked about what his relatively single minded drive was. Ranjit felt like a threat. Zenos just feels like the inevitable Big Bad because SE says he is.

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

I thought the game at this point made it clear he IS very intelligent and downright cunning, but it's just that he is hyper focused on having the greatest duel of all time with the WoL.
Dunno why people always think he's dumb just cause he wants to fight us to the death, its not impossible to have a sole focus.

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Shhh I like pushing the Zenos himbo narrative. He has a huge butt, no brain cells, and is our very best friend. I do not care if these things can be canonically disproven. I cannot hear you, I am too busy reposting funny art on Twitter.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I get this perspective, and I think this is what they want us to feel about him. I just think they've utterly failed at doing so. We basically just see him sitting on a throne looking bored and doing nothing. As much as they want us to feel him trying to move heaven and earth to have his much desired fated duel, it feels like he's just sitting there while everyone else is actually doing everything. As much as they want us to feel like he cares, desperately to the depth of his very being, to fight the WoL.. they just show him sitting on a throne bored. Even now with Fandaniel, it's Fandaniel that's the one making the moves to bring about The End. Zenos only seemed to care a little when Fandaniel told him that he had placed the WoL in potential harms way.

I don't at all think Zenos is stupid or lacking intelligence, He doesn't need a sob story or some deep background that makes us care about him. He doesn't even need anything more than pure, animal instinct and drive. I just don't feel like he cares anywhere near as much about what he supposedly cares about as he says he does. He could be a complete blank slate of pure threat and danger, and it would be refreshing at this point for him to be just that, but he isn't that.. he's just a dude who sits bored on a throne while everyone else does everything. Ranjit felt like a much more present, single minded threat because he, you know, actually did something and actually talked about what his relatively single minded drive was. Ranjit felt like a threat. Zenos just feels like the inevitable Big Bad because SE says he is.

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I agree. Something I am hoping to see is him lose his cool and actual go mad. Like something prevents him from fighting us or we do fight him and it doesn't meet his expectations.

Cause atm he feels like he is doing all this on a whim. We need to see the desire and fire the fuels his lust to fight us.

I’m just tired of seeing him. He was 1 dimensional in Stormblood and now we’ve been stuck with him for 4+ years.

Kroger Brand Sephiroth.

My character accepted Zenos when he asked. Deal with it :D.

He is nothing special as a character but i'd rather have him than any of the Scion characters except Tataru

He's basically Cell from DBZ, just wants to fight the strongest person out there and that's it.

He even came back for a second round just like cell lol.

Go to your room and listen to - I can't Lose- from the One piece OST until you've learned your lesson OP. :/

The problem with Zenos is that its goal is summed up by:
"I live for the fun of fighting"

I would have preferred another protagonist than him and a cheap joker.

My hype gauge is currently very low compared to the expectations of Shadowbringer & Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

The problem with Zenos is that its goal is summed up by:
"I live for the fun of fighting"

I would have preferred another protagonist than him and a cheap joker.

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You mean antagonist.

And Zenos is a good type of villain/antagonist to bring an end to the story of Hydaelyn and Zodiark. They are too far removed from the story that only someone like Zenos and Fandaniel would be crazy enough to have a plan that could involve the two.

At the same time, it's a good thing the story isn't being stretched out to 6.3.