You can like the raids from a gameplay perspective but not a lore perspective.
In my case, I like all of them in the former regard but am not a fan of Ivalice or the Nier raids lorewise.
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02-28-2021, 11:09 PMKageTokage
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02-28-2021, 11:16 PMVyrerusAmen about the Nier raids. Love the gameplay, but the story/lorey smh. Though I am hoping that Yoko Taro somehow madmans his way into making it work out somehow.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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02-28-2021, 11:43 PMCilia
Nostalgia is a cheap drug that eventually stops being intoxicating. Further one needs to be invested in the property the nostalgic element is attempting to appeal to, and if you're not it's just a bunch of random stuff everyone says is super cool but you just don't get. (Or further, actually don't like at all.)
The gameplay's always been enjoyable (... enough), but I'd rather see this world's history and mythos expanded upon than be given cheap fanservice for the umpteenth time, especially if it's for something I either don't care about or actually dislike. -
03-01-2021, 06:30 AMVyrerusI don't think nostalgia loses any impact for most people. If it did, remakes and remasters wouldn't be as desired as they are. I also don't see it as a drug, because not all nostalgia is just childhood association with home or heartwarming things. It is also the respect for the awe these things instilled in you, that caused you to become who you are today. Sometimes it includes bitter memories of growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
I certainly don't mind fan service's use at all, if it's attempting to show things not everyone is familiar with. Sometimes it kindles interests that people never knew they had, after all. I too, would like it if FFXIV expanded upon itself more, but the game is often referred to as a theme park for a reason. They have a lot of the past to draw off of and remake, and without XIV, most of these old games that are beyond most of the playerbase's memory, won't receive remakes of their own. -
03-01-2021, 08:23 PMKeseyThis is not true of nostalgia at all. It takes a life shattering event to break the hold of nostalgia and in some people it never seems to fade. This is a phenomenon often explored in modern literature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
Even the villains of this game (Lahhbrea, Elidibus, and Emet) all had their motivations for evil and planet/population genocide based on their nostalgia for the way things were during the time of the Ancients. These guys didn't let it go and even died for that nostalgia. Even Emet's last words were a cheap shot for nostalgia! -
03-01-2021, 10:45 PMRyuDragnierI'd be terrified if he didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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03-02-2021, 01:24 AMBright-FlowerYep. There are parts that interest me but it's all the dwarf related stuff. The final raid's going to have to work hard to make up for this if it wants to salvage the story of the arc as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
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03-02-2021, 01:21 PMGoldStarz
I'm really interested to see what they do with the
seeds of destruction (the giant moth balls for those of you who don't know DrakeNieR lore)
given their usual apocalyptic connotations. -
03-02-2021, 02:53 PMramsesh
I’m excited to see what they come up with. I did really love the 4.0 raid series, half because I love FF12 and half because I really loved the raids themselves (Orbonne is probably my favorite raid of all) but I get why people would be agitated about fan service.
Still I think in a game like this we’ll continue to see more of it, it’s just what some fans respond to and Yoshida loves that kind of stuff. -
03-02-2021, 05:45 PMYianKutku
The usual issue with nostalgia fanservice is that it tends to do nothing for anyone who doesn't have that nostalgia, unless it's deliberately and specifically integrated into the current setting.
The example for "well-integrated" is the Crystal Tower series. While it is admittedly (according to hearsay) engaging only shallowly with the themes of FFIII (I think there was a complaint that the whole "this is my destiny" of G'raha Tia being the Tower's caretaker was counter to the theme of FFIII that destiny can be defied), the whole story is deeply integral to the history of Hydaelyn and the Allagan Empire. And with Shadowbringers, it gets called back in a new way that doesn't have much to do with FFIII.
Meanwhile, the Yorha series is, thus far, completely disconnected from the rest of the setting. It's even disconnected from the rest of the First, apart from involving a single settlement of dwarves, which doesn't even get referred to in other interactions with that settlement. And the themes it's apparently trying to tell (and certainly the themes of Nier Automata) have already been done in FFXIV, so it would have been perfectly plausible for our character to just recite the plot developments in-character in an exasperated, bored tone.
For an example of something that's already completed, the first nine stages of the Omega raids also apply. Yes, Omega is trying to find the Strongest, apparently having gotten its inspiration from the same place as the PLD 50-60 questline. But why these beings? Why these bosses? They came from nothing (well, aether) and return to nothing. Alpha also came from nothing and became something, but for every created boss we face, they're just... there. Even Ultros's appearance in O7 is unexplained. -
03-02-2021, 06:57 PMVyrerusIt does something, if the fanservice is appealing in a way that makes people who don't have nostalgia go look up the source. Some people even find a new favorite entry to the series or a new favorite game.Quote:
Originally Posted by YianKutku
Also I'd argue that Yorha can't be nostalgic, as it's not really old enough to give anybody nostalgia.
As far as Omega goes, the source of the fights are explained as being from data within Omega, both fictional and not. As for why those bosses, well, if they'd left the final forms in the normal mode instead of just relegating them to Savage it'd be more apparent. Each tier follows the pattern of Monster that controls positioning > Monster with gimmick powers > Strong Monster with both of those > A literal planet destroying God. As with a lot of Stormblood they hoped to tell part of the story within the gameplay, and yes, they failed at this attempt, mostly. It's mainly because Alphascape has to buck the trend and goes God of Elements > Father of Dragons > Omega > Omega. Of course, it also all serves to get us amped up and believe Omega is wildly more powerful than all of these things, since it can emulate their powers in holodeck simulations.
As for why Ultros appears in Sigmascape 3.0, it is because The Guardian in FFVI uses the attack patterns of all prior bosses in that game, and they decided to select him as one of the boss patterns to emulate in XIV, since they already had his model and mechanics made up from other trials. They also made it emulate an FFXIV boss, The Everliving Bibliotaph so, there's that. As far as a lore reason, I don't think one was given. But I mean, his initial appearance in FFXIV is pretty much on the same level, "Oh he's some sorta voidsent accidentally summoned here." So he's just there in XIV, too, with no real backstory extrapolated on, because Ultros is nostalgic fanservice content in the first place. -
03-08-2021, 01:28 PMBorril
To me its interesting, I don't mind crossovers if they are integrated well, and the lore behind Omega was justified enough, thoigh definitely very blatant. Iviace I was OK with to some extent especially since it's tied into our world as well, but it still felt a bit more off than Omega, Nier, though I loved the series, and enjoy parts of the story, its still...the worse off to me, maybe the final part will help but besides that, I agree with the dresser, ir will be cool to see sine more directly original.
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03-08-2021, 01:44 PMelioaiko
I'm 50/50 on the subject of fanservice. While I do prefer more original things it's nice that the devs put in the effort of bringing in older/current SE franchises into the world of Eoreza.
On the Ivalice raids, I disagree to a degree. I played nearly all of the final fantasy titles as it's one of my favorite series. So seeing them add Ivalice was great because that universe is one of the best Squaresoft/SE has created.
For Omega, I felt that it was a good mix of nostalgia and originality. I liked seeing all of the bosses from other games while having a decent reason for them showing up. Also the story of Omega is original plot-wise. It's one of my favorite raid series tbh.
Overall, I think there's a hard balance for them to deal with. I think it's nice for them to bring in other games to bring hype and give fanservice to the fans that have enjoyed it. I do understand more original content is good Ofc. Nier was pretty hype tbh but so far the writing of the Nier universe is far too complicated to be out into a 3-part alliance raid, it would have been as a long term event/side quest chain.