Valentione’s and Little Ladies’ Day (veira/hrothgar)

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Originally Posted by Liale

The only way they will ever give the races the effort they deserve is if you abandon viera and hrothgar completely.

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No that would just feed into the confirmation bias that nobody likes those races so that they need not spend any more effort on them. If you really want to get a company to pay attention you need to stop giving them money.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Oh man. Smells like self centered entitlement in here. Just a reminder - Viera/Hrothgar was never meant to be added but they did anyways, for you guys.

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Every scrap of content is supposed to be for the players, that's how games work.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

by acting like you're so entitled to it like SE "Owes" you is just ludicrous.

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We're entitled for wanting equal treatment across all races? Wow.

We understand the complications of viera and hrothgar heads but none of this justifies having the only piece of clothing from an event to be something they cannot use. SE could have chosen anything else but instead opted for something that can't be enjoyed equally among all their players. They made a bad decision and like it or not the forums are for feedback whether it's positive or not. This thread literally wouldn't exist if every player regardless of race could use the items like anyone else can.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

I understand the reasoning behind it

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Clearly you don't.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Oh man. Smells like self centered entitlement in here. Just a reminder - Viera/Hrothgar was never meant to be added but they did anyways, for you guys. (Mainly Viera). Hrothgar was a personal choice by the dev team. I understand the reasoning behind it but by acting like you're so entitled to it like SE "Owes" you is just ludicrous.

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You heard it here, folks. Can't complain about anything, ever, because doing so means you're entitled and you should just accept whatever you're given with a smile, no matter how bad it is.

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Originally Posted by nillahwafer

You heard it here, folks. Can't complain about anything, ever, because doing so means you're entitled and you should just accept whatever you're given with a smile, no matter how bad it is.

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Right? Seriously, people act like we held them at gunpoint to add these races in and implement them the way they did.

“Not meant to be in the game”? What does that even mean? If they weren’t meant to be in the game they wouldn’t be. It was a deliberate business decision, made by a business, to appeal to and retain current customers and draw in new ones. They chose to add them, and they should be expected to consider them like they do all of the other races they also chose to add. Honestly, they’d see a lot less backlash if they gave us any attention at all the last two years.

So yeah, this event is a huge letdown. Not because it’s significantly smaller due to covid/expansion crunch/whatever (totally understandable!), but because what *is* there completely leaves out a whole chunk of the player base. They dropped the ball.

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Oh man. Smells like self centered entitlement in here. Just a reminder - Viera/Hrothgar was never meant to be added but they did anyways, for you guys. (Mainly Viera). Hrothgar was a personal choice by the dev team. I understand the reasoning behind it but by acting like you're so entitled to it like SE "Owes" you is just ludicrous.

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Listen lady, they shouldn't have added them at all if they weren't planning to treat them like the other races. It isn't entitled to want what the other races are all getting. The fact they won't even adapt newly released items for the new races is ridiculous. It isn't entitled. If they weren't planning to even pay attention to these races or they were never meant to be added they should have NEVER added them in the first place. Period.

You seem like such a sweet and wonderful person. I truly hope I never encounter you on Crystal.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Honestly, they’d see a lot less backlash if they gave us any attention at all the last two years.

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For real. Not getting to wear hats is whatever, I wish it were different but whatever, I can deal. Frankly I wish they'd just give us the option of being able to wear hats and either clip or hide the ears entirely. I don't care how stupid it looks. But it was the judge armor that really set me off because they even fixed it for hrothgar, which seems to me like it would take far more work than viera since their head models are differently shaped. If we're doing this much work for a sick set of gear, every race should be able to wear it all. That goes for the elemental armor too, from eureka.

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Originally Posted by nillahwafer

Frankly I wish they'd just give us the option of being able to wear hats and either clip or hide the ears entirely. I don't care how stupid it looks.

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It's been discussed before but the reason they don't do this is because normally when you equip a hat it changes to a modified version of whatever hairstyle you're using which is effectively cropped or bald underneath where the hat sits, these alternate models don't exist for Viera and Hrothgar models because they decidrd pretty early on they wouldn't be giving us hats so they didn't make them.

So if you were to let a hat just clip for Viera then something relatively small and form fitting like the Moogle cap would be completely swallowed up by the hairstyle clipping through it along with the ears. For Hrothgar the hairstyle completely disappears.

This is of course no excuse for not doing anything all this time, but I can see why "just let it clip" is not an appealing option for them.

Now why the judge helmets (and several other full helmet models) work for Hrothgar and not Viera is a mystery to me as well.

Well, if the judge helmets don't work on viera, but work on hrothgar, I think they are utilizing some quality control. Viera ears do clip through some full helmets, but the judge helmets are oddly shaped. Granted, it seems weird, but that might be how it is.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Well, if the judge helmets don't work on viera, but work on hrothgar, I think they are utilizing some quality control. Viera ears do clip through some full helmets, but the judge helmets are oddly shaped. Granted, it seems weird, but that might be how it is.

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See.. I can't agree with this given the fact the au ra horns stick through the helms and look awful haha.

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Originally Posted by Rosekitten

See.. I can't agree with this given the fact the au ra horns stick through the helms and look awful haha.

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That's why I said it seems weird, but au ra aren't a limited race. They aren't going to just start excluding headgear from them. Viera? They are another story. They have allowed ear clipping on helmets like this before:

https://i.imgur.com/mUcphv9.png

They probably just thought with the judge helmets, it was too much.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

That's why I said it seems weird, but au ra aren't a limited race. They aren't going to just start excluding headgear from them. Viera? They are another story. They have allowed ear clipping on helmets like this before:

https://i.imgur.com/mUcphv9.png

They probably just thought with the judge helmets, it was too much.

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That's what I thought at first as well, but something like the Scion Traveler's Mask that isn't nearly as elaborate doesn't work on Viera either but does works on Hrothgar.

It's possible the item is flagged as something other than "full head-replacing helmet" under the hood that makes it hidden.

from what i read through the forums , some people say that viera's ears are not attached to their head that's why it occupy the headgear slot , and in the live letter that said they are removing belts so that's a free slot remaining ? i am hoping that they could use it for viera / hrothgar

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Originally Posted by lalin

from what i read through the forums , some people say that viera's ears are not attached to their head that's why it occupy the headgear slot , and in the live letter that said they are removing belts so that's a free slot remaining ? i am hoping that they could use it for viera / hrothgar

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Wait... what?
If that's true that's hilarious.
(And I likewise hope they use it for Viera/Hrothgar too).

And regardless of if they've removed belts to free up the slot or what I'm glad they're gone lol.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Wait... what?
If that's true that's hilarious.
(And I likewise hope they use it for Viera/Hrothgar too).

And regardless of if they've removed belts to free up the slot or what I'm glad they're gone lol.

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It's not true, ears are a separate category so the belt removal won't do much.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It's not true, ears are a separate category so the belt removal won't do much.

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That would make sense.
Otherwise, if they did take up a slot I'd be confused as to why they're able to equip any glasses and what not.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

That would make sense.
Otherwise, if they did take up a slot I'd be confused as to why they're able to equip any glasses and what not.

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Yeah, there was a lot of speculation early on about why the races are the way they are and that was one of the theories. I also thought it might be the case for a while but like you said, doesn't make a ton of sense since we can wear other items that go in the head slot.

Removal of the belt slot could potentially free up space for the long requested feature of glasses+headgear though, if they're keen on going back and reclassifying glasses and similar items as a "Face" item rather than "Head". :)

So nothing about viera or hrothgar in the announcements but they mostly only showed teasers so we have to wait until May to get the real meat.

I'm praying we will at least get a handful of the non-racial hair. Even if it's just the ones from the mog station. At this point any minor addition would be great. As for hats, it's a more complicated issue but even just adjusting -some- of the hats would be very well received. I don't think anyone is expecting to get everything at once. Getting more bit by bit would be very welcome, and they should start with AF headgear because they tend to be the more iconic pieces.

Below is an image I saved from another similar thread months ago that very much illustrates how bunny ears are just not an excuse for not adding more hairstyles. I know that hrothgar hunch so some hair would clip but nothing is stopping SE from adding hair that would not, and there are plenty of hairstyles that fall into that category.

https://i.imgur.com/tER1ygq.png

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So nothing about viera or hrothgar in the announcements but they mostly only showed teasers so we have to wait until May to get the real meat.

I'm praying we will at least get a handful of the non-racial hair. Even if it's just the ones from the mog station. At this point any minor addition would be great. As for hats, it's a more complicated issue but even just adjusting -some- of the hats would be very well received. I don't think anyone is expecting to get everything at once. Getting more bit by bit would be very welcome, and they should start with AF headgear because they tend to be the more iconic pieces.

Below is an image I saved from another similar thread months ago that very much illustrates how bunny ears are just not an excuse for not adding more hairstyles. I know that hrothgar hunch so some hair would clip but nothing is stopping SE from adding hair that would not, and there are plenty of hairstyles that fall into that category.

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Agreed on all of the above, but FWIW I don't believe SE themselves has actually ever said that the ears are a particular problem for them to be able to add the hairstyles. They haven't said anything about it at all which is probably worse, but they're not using that excuse at least.

The ears float slightly above the skull on the model so they might have to "raise" some of the hairstyles to meet the ears so there's no visible space between them, but they generally put in the extra work to accommodate Au Ra horns and Miqo'te ears so doing something for Viera is not an insurmountable effort compared to what they already do.

I suspect the reason is because it's not so cut and dry for Hrothgar, and even if they released more hairstyles for them they wouldn't be able to access them without a Fantasia, it would be deemed unfair because as of right now we're for all intents and purposes the new male and female race. But that's just me speculating.

Fingers crossed for May for both races because it's really been way too long for something as basic as hairstyles at least.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Removal of the belt slot could potentially free up space for the long requested feature of glasses+headgear though, if they're keen on going back and reclassifying glasses and similar items as a "Face" item rather than "Head". :)

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If that were the case I don't think SQEX would be moving the slots to weapons and rings inventory space.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So nothing about viera or hrothgar in the announcements but they mostly only showed teasers so we have to wait until May to get the real meat.

I'm praying we will at least get a handful of the non-racial hair. Even if it's just the ones from the mog station. At this point any minor addition would be great. As for hats, it's a more complicated issue but even just adjusting -some- of the hats would be very well received. I don't think anyone is expecting to get everything at once. Getting more bit by bit would be very welcome, and they should start with AF headgear because they tend to be the more iconic pieces.

Below is an image I saved from another similar thread months ago that very much illustrates how bunny ears are just not an excuse for not adding more hairstyles. I know that hrothgar hunch so some hair would clip but nothing is stopping SE from adding hair that would not, and there are plenty of hairstyles that fall into that category.

https://i.imgur.com/tER1ygq.png

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Not perfect, but there are a lot of styles that aren't perfect on Miqo'te either.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

If that were the case I don't think SQEX would be moving the slots to weapons and rings inventory space.

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Oop- you're right.

35 slots free up and 15 go to rings and another 15 to weapons, leaving 5 "to be held in reserve for a rainy day". I misremembered how many they were reserving :)

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Agreed on all of the above, but FWIW I don't believe SE themselves has actually ever said that the ears are a particular problem for them to be able to add the hairstyles. They haven't said anything about it at all which is probably worse, but they're not using that excuse at least.

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I don't think SE have ever said bunny ears are an issue for hair either, however so many players claim that this must be the reason. Hilariously some of these players have been miqos!

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Originally Posted by Yencat

The ears float slightly above the skull on the model so they might have to "raise" some of the hairstyles to meet the ears so there's no visible space between them, but they generally put in the extra work to accommodate Au Ra horns and Miqo'te ears so doing something for Viera is not an insurmountable effort compared to what they already do.

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Yea SE have already proven with two other races that they can make large non-human features on a race's head work for a huge variety of hairstyles. They even adjusted the bun placement on a hairstyle for miqos that would have otherwise clipped into their ears. Knowing all this is a huge part of the frustration I feel over hair.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I suspect the reason is because it's not so cut and dry for Hrothgar, and even if they released more hairstyles for them they wouldn't be able to access them without a Fantasia, it would be deemed unfair because as of right now we're for all intents and purposes the new male and female race. But that's just me speculating.

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SE really shot themselves in the foot by making the decision to tie hrothgar hair to faces. It guarantees complications for future additions to appearance options. They knew this would upset players...at least they would know if they cared to look at feedback regarding au ra horns tied to faces. Never mind how its so common for players to change their hair often and SE have access to data that would show this very plainly. The hrothgar hair situation is puzzling because it is just so stupid.

I remember when the ShB benchmark was released I made a thread over concerns about hair on the new races and pointed out that if we get the same character creator on the live servers then it's possible that hrothgar would need a fantasia to change hair. Many told me that worrying about this was silly because the whole idea is ludicrous...and yet...that is exactly what we got.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Fingers crossed for May for both races because it's really been way too long for something as basic as hairstyles at least.

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I'm really hoping that covid delayed some hrothgar and viera options we should have had by now, and that May will show us this.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I don't think SE have ever said bunny ears are an issue for hair either, however so many players claim that this must be the reason. Hilariously some of these players have been miqos!

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Yep, I still see the "It'd be difficult because the ears are in completely different positions/the base of the ears is a different size!" every now and then.

Try on the hair with the baked in helmet and tell me where it changes or warps because of the difference in base size or ear position (SPOILER: it doesn't because they're all identical in size and position.)

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Originally Posted by Penthea

SE really shot themselves in the foot by making the decision to tie hrothgar hair to faces. It guarantees complications for future additions to appearance options. They knew this would upset players...at least they would know if they cared to look at feedback regarding au ra horns tied to faces. Never mind how its so common for players to change their hair often and SE have access to data that would show this very plainly. The hrothgar hair situation is puzzling because it is just so stupid.

I remember when the ShB benchmark was released I made a thread over concerns about hair on the new races and pointed out that if we get the same character creator on the live servers then it's possible that hrothgar would need a fantasia to change hair. Many told me that worrying about this was silly because the whole idea is ludicrous...and yet...that is exactly what we got.

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They really did. Someone here on the forums said maybe they thought people who are drawn to beast races would be less concerned with changing their hairstyle frequently, and while it's stupid in hindsight it's the only reason I can make some sense of it.

Swapping fur patterns with hairstyles was never going to be the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I'm really hoping that covid delayed some hrothgar and viera options we should have had by now, and that May will show us this.

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Hopefully that and that they actually listened and realized Hrothgar need more than just face and hair additions they can't freely access and that kind of work just takes longer.

I'm pretty sure they have used the excuse "unique heads" when referencing both viera and hrothgar. Could be confirmation, that hrothgar situation also effecting viera. Though Hrothgar get more helmets, so that's funny.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm pretty sure they have used the excuse "unique heads" when referencing both viera and hrothgar. Could be confirmation, that hrothgar situation also effecting viera. Though Hrothgar get more helmets, so that's funny.

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"Unique customization" was supposed to be the big selling point for both races and allegedly why we didn't need headgear, but I don't think they've used it in reference to hairstyles and they haven't actually said a peep about it since the flip-flop on whether or not we're getting any shared styles or only unique ones and Hrothgar getting additional faces and manes down the line.

Crickets.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

It's not true, ears are a separate category so the belt removal won't do much.

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aw ok :( there go my hopes of wearing a hat in 6.0 maybe 2022 ..

I had thought perhaps if they made a work-around like, Viera specific hair had ties to ears as a hat. Other hair that is imported would "remove" ears for another slot, and allow hats that way? I don't know if that would even work with their spaghetti code.

I really don't want hats at this point. I was so bothered by it at first, but now I have learned to love bows, flowers, and circlets that I never wore otherwise. Earrings are also getting a lot of mileage these days.

Would just really appreciate that holiday rewards not be items two races can't use, and hair. :(

They either need to start making cosmetic gear to fit around viera/ hrothgar & that others can use or give those 2 races access to all headgear OR stop making headgear that viera & hrothgar can't wear.
I think the designers need to take a hard look at fashion- because almost everything event wise or mog station has been terrible & lackluster - Viera can't even wear the mog station hairstyles. Why Square Enix?
This oversight, (literally intentional oversight imo at this point since it's not been addressed at all but remains an obv problem)- reflects the "we will release the content we want you to have & you will like it, not the content you want to have" which is why their recent single player games & recent online events are so lackluster.

Do the Japanese players not have this issue? Or do they not play Viera or Hrothgar at all? I know Enix listens to their Japanese playerbase. Where can we actually get Yoshi's attention because this is a meme at this point.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

...Do the Japanese players not have this issue? Or do they not play Viera or Hrothgar at all?...

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Mostly they want glasses, as they will make the Bunny look romantic. Only one person in this thread mentions the event.

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Originally Posted by Tart

イベントを開催して頂けることはとても嬉しいです。
が、『反映されない』種族がいるのに、頭装備をイベント報酬にするのは何とかならんのでしょうか…
みんなが楽しむ事ができるイベントで報酬が頭装備だけなことがたまにありますが、頭装備にしても全種族に反映出来るものにするとか、そういう事は無理ですか？
今回のモーグリキャップは被れるなら良いんです、そしたらすみません。
その種族を選んだ人の中には、頭装備は反映されないよーと承知している方もいるとは思います。
でも、承知してるならイベント報酬の装備無くてもいいよね？家具あるし！ではないと思うのです。
セット装備で頭装備だけ使えないのと、元々頭装備しかないのとではやはり少し違う気がします。
レベルに関わらず誰でも楽しめるイベントだからこそ、どの種族でも使えるものが報酬であってほしいなぁと思います。

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However that post says it... So, it will be read.

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Originally Posted by lalin

aw ok :( there go my hopes of wearing a hat in 6.0 maybe 2022 ..

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Sorry to dash your hopes! Though it doesn't necessarily mean we won't see any updates at all in 6.0, it just means removing the belt isn't the magic bullet solution for us. :)

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.