Lets talk about the FFXIV player base..

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Originally Posted by Destin_Valiant

Is it just me or the players here are kinda sensitive and also not that good? Been playing the game since last fall and what I am noticing is that the players playing the game are not that good and they get easily butthurt when being criticized?

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There is a thin line between criticizing and straight out harassing people for bad performance. Unless you do endgame, this shouldn't matter that much as long people don't stand around and just auto-attack.

Hope OP were not seeking "performance" on PUG grops...

Then, I did see too much times that "advice" were consisting on yelling at the poor guy how "bad" he is, sometime with added hints about unstalling the game, rather than constructive hints. So, well, if the advice is quite intimidatory, I suppose the advisor hardly will get a "thank you" for it.

Then I also received rude replies to genuine advice, but hey, there is so much people around, we cannot make a couple bad guys a sample for a whole community. So far, people is nice and bad apples here and there but not so much to say the server is a nest of snakes...

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...BMlEg&usqp=CAU

Well. I try rarely to give tips to my fellow players, because I do not like unasked help myself. I'm not massive ass about that, I may tell thank you and then I ignore you, if the help indeed was not requested in any way. Simple enough, I really try to treat others like I'd like to be treated myself.

And when I come out of my shell and tell whm to go easy on hots, get told "ok boomer" or whatever, I just hit my Regen Destroyer Macro and let it go. What more can I do? The piece of advice I actually thought could be helpful for me to do opposite what I usually do has been send on it's way to big, big world. The struggling player may figures out by themselves how to react to it.

FFXIV is a unique MMORPG IMO because of the way GCDs work and the nature of oGCDs. Disclaimer: I'm not a green dps but this is the true nature of FFXIV.

There's clearing content and then there's playing the correct way(MOAR DAMAGE). Anything that results in less damage over the total time frame of the encounter is the incorrect way to play this game.
Bosses in this game have enrage timers, the goal is to out race the enrage timer, doing things counter-productive to that point is playing incorrectly. Conversely required healing is never a damage loss and can be a damage gain if you have "free healing".

In many games second made decisions largely don't impact the overall outcome of a fight because they don't work on a strict GCD system like FFXIV and clipping if any is largely irrelevant. In FFXIV clipping is literally throwing away damage in an encounter. Every time you clip you eventually reach a point where you've wasted a GCDs worth of damage if not more that is damage that you will never get back in the fight until you wipe.

How many times have you wiped at a fight at 00.01%? That's literally any single GCD from anyone. I've wiped on Alex at 00.001% because the group was fucking up and I didn't reapply over my 15 Sec Dia and instead chose to glare and missed the window by a fraction of a second.

The above is largely only relevant to end game content but pretending that people who aren't playing correctly just because they're clearing irrelevant content is setting up the player base for failure from go.
You don't have to rub it in their face but if their individual play is taking up the parties time simply because they don't know any better people who like to pretend there are more than two ways to actually play this game are a bigger problem.

The last instance I did in crystal was with me tanking The Aery as a tank who as leveled every healer to 80 I pull based on what the classes can handle and then ease up if the healer is clearly struggling. This was not one of those cases, I died a total of 6 times before getting kicked. The WHM was level 58 and had not even done his second job quest and didn't have regen unlocked. No big deal they don't need regen. Wrong. Granted even if they had it they still would've failed. They said nothing throughout the entire run even as they let me die to single pack pulls(I had to clemency to get through single pack pulls as paladin) and every boss all the way up til the final boss. Their friend talked for them the entire time and when I finally initiated the vote kick the first thing they said to me after failing themselves(took 3 Crimson Prices in the exact same spot while standing still actually afk.), and their team was and I quote "If you don't like it you can get the fuck out." Needless to say I left Crystal.

In short if after a wipe you can mathematically tell that if there was hypothetically 8 of you playing at the exact same skill level in each role and you wouldn't be able to clear the content you're doing and you have no intentions of improving, stop wasting my time.

People will show more energy towards calling out troll posts (whether valid or not; also not saying this thread is a troll post either), yet will argue in defence of troll levels of performance in-game. If doing solo content play how you want, sure, but when you're in lvl80 group content playing like you only have a lvl5 toolkit then keep that among whatever friends you have happy to accommodate you.

Yes a lot of people in this community are actually super sensitive and bad+toxic and i see it a lot

reel exemple : doing shiva unreal with my ninja ( i'm the only melee dps of the party ) i'm the only one doing my job correctly ( rotation + mecanic ) i don't die , the whm in my party let the 2 tank die because he is too busy dpsing ( tank are failing mecanic too ) , other dps are dying at every mecanic , the other healer a ast die a lot too . At the end of the fight shiva is at 4% of her HP we just got the lb3 she is doing her last mecanic with the ice puddle and the whm ask me to do the lb ( when i need to avoid the mecanic to not die ) , so i don't do it and shiva leave at 4% of her HP for the enrage . So we wiped and they have the audacity to say in the chat " gg ninja " because i didn't do the "savior" lb3 ( useless btw because lb3 don't do 4% damage in shiva unreel and the mecanic would have killed me anyway ) So yeah they are blaming the only one who did his job when all of them where doing terrible in all the fight .

I have a lot of exemple like this when bad player are blaming other people like that in dungeon , raid24 , savage even in ultimate . It's like they think that they are doing a great job when in fact they are just getting carryed

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Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

Lol all those passive aggressive smileys =) and loves <3

It's childish AF, reminds me of people in highschool when they want to look "cool" when they're anything but, hahaha. Can't help but feel amused every time I see anyone doing it :P

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Regardless of what you think about my writing style and how I address people like him, point still stands: Dude is both wrong and talking about experiences he cannot possibly have, per currently publicly available information.

But hey. If we wanna talk "childish behavior," I see a lot of children enter into conversations with irrelevant, oftentimes off-topic statements that serve no purpose towards that conversation. Sure, it's cute and endearing when a child does it, because they're children. That's what they do. For an example, just spitballing here... You know, like critiquing writing styles in a conversation about player types in certain parts of a game's gameplay. Really general, every day sorta thing. Happens all the time.

<3

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Originally Posted by Darsien

Regardless of what you think about my writing style and how I address people like him, point still stands: Dude is both wrong and talking about experiences he cannot possibly have, per currently publicly available information.

But hey. If we wanna talk "childish behavior," I see a lot of children enter into conversations with irrelevant, oftentimes off-topic statements that serve no purpose towards that conversation. Sure, it's cute and endearing when a child does it, because they're children. That's what they do. For an example, just spitballing here... You know, like critiquing writing styles in a conversation about player types in certain parts of a game's gameplay. Really general, every day sorta thing. Happens all the time.

<3

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Okayyy okayy cool guy, you do you, lol.

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Originally Posted by Cyreil

I guess the rest of the world is getting along perfectly then and can handle any criticism on any and all topics.

Insert surprised Pikachu face here.

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I play this game for the story and the crafting/gathering. I am free to play it as I wish. It's a GAME...it isn't that serious.

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Originally Posted by Darsien

So they INTENTIONALLY want to play poorly? Most other games call that trolling. Are you seriously advocating for trolling, or what's your game here?




Ah, so doing absolutely nothing for half an instance is acceptable to you, huh? Hey everyone. Tell me another team game where going AFK for half of the overall time you're playing with the AFK person is acceptable.

It's not, dude. You should be ashamed. For the hypothetical Dragoon player of course. The one who totally wasn't you but was completely a made up random Dragoon. Can't kick an AFK player if you clear in the first pull and carry the AFK player. They received a reward they only half deserved. =(





Oh, dear sweet summer child, I'm fully aware you don't care about anything. In addition, bad players can't tell when they're playing with bad players because they're stuck in a feedback loop. Or so I've heard. I would NEVER criticize another player. ;)

Also, another advantage of learning to play well and do my part: I never get told I'm playing wrong because I'm always playing right. Gee. Sounds like it'd be a blessing for... SOME players. ;) ;) ;)



A simple reminder: It's a team game. As a member of a team, likely random ones, YOU, YES YOU, READER, have a RESPONSIBILITY to know what you're doing. That hypothetical Dragoon didn't, and you wanna know what happened? 3 players died at the end of the fight, an end that they never would of seen if our hypothetical Dragoon did their part. No one likes dying. They had a net negative impact on 3 players and didn't even know it. =(

Don't be like the hypothetical Dragoon. Do your part. Let the dirt tank the floor instead of your teammates.

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You truly need to cure the hate in your heart. You are such an angry individual. I feel bad for anyone who ends up having to play with you.

Nobody expects perfection in PUG content. However using the class kit correctly should be bare minimum.

Anyone else cringing reading a certain someone's comments?

I think people taking the game way too seriously in PUG content is a shining example of issues with the XIV playerbase. Or maybe it's just the forums/reddit.

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Originally Posted by RethDaron

Anyone else cringing reading a certain someone's comments?

I think people taking the game way too seriously in PUG content is a shining example of issues with the XIV playerbase. Or maybe it's just the forums/reddit.

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I honestly think 100% of it is that these players have no clue whats going on with some of the other players...for instance when 3 or 4 are on their own discord joking around during alliance raids, or other content = nobody sees that. Yes admittedly even I on some evenings will mess around in easier than Savage raid do or die extreme death hard core content be on with a few friends, in an entirely stranger based instance and we will goof off. Will we clear the stuff we signed up for? absolutely. Will be do weird things like use rescue on each other as a gag? most likely. Ive even been accused of being a bot before by 1 rando while the other 3 were myself and two friends, completely chatting in real time in discord on a simple dungeon run before, because i was not typing the entire time in in game chat, or at all.
TL:DR = you're absolutely right

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Originally Posted by RethDaron

Anyone else cringing reading a certain someone's comments?

I think people taking the game way too seriously in PUG content is a shining example of issues with the XIV playerbase. Or maybe it's just the forums/reddit.

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You reading into this too much. I had in mind things like tanks not using cooldowns etc.

OP I noticed you've not done savage raids or ultimate raids. In fact it looks like you've barely done the normal raids and the 24 man raids. A lot of players don't really pay attention in casual content like dungeons, trials, normal raids, or even some savage raids. People usually goof around because they've done it so many times already and the mechanics are brain dead. I think if you experience ultimate raids and week 1/2 savage groups you will find there are many good players in this game.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

You reading into this too much. I had in mind things like tanks not using cooldowns etc.

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It wasn't directed at you, no worries.

Learning to use your class skills isn't asking much at all.

I have seen this behavior in ALL MMOs that I've played to varying degrees. WoW is very similar to FFXIV, EQ was less so, but still had some. EQ2 was better than WoW but worse than EQ. Rift was similar to WoW and FFXIV. It's people, not the game. The same goes for criticizing, they all have their levels of white knighting.

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Originally Posted by Angelov-Mercy

Snip...

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I always struggle read your input because my eyes are naturally drawn down towards the adorable dancing catgirl every time.

It's just not worth helping players these days. You may as well be pissing in their cheerios.

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

It's just not worth helping players these days. You may as well be pissing in their cheerios.

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It's always worth offering help, provided one take no for an answer without being offended. It's okay if someone doesn't want your help but in general offering help in a gentle and non-offending way is caring. I'll never stop doing that if circumstances need it.

I feel sympathy for you OP. You are criticizing a legitimately concerning trend in this community and you get told lovers of dragon boys and hrothgar daddies that you need to fix the hate in your heart. This kind of highschool crap is so abundant in this community. If anything, it's more the immaturity of this community that is showing. Too immature to care about own performance and impact on quality of life of their fellow players. It's apathy because I know that if you put in a little bit of time in looking up guide videos for classed you play, you will manage just fine in most content. We don't see that though, do we. A lot of players with shocking performances in this game. The response you got by some people is so predictable at this point, it's actually kind of pathetic.

Maybe someone should give me a Snickers though, so I can also cure all that hate inside my heart lmao

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Originally Posted by Starflake

I feel sympathy for you OP. You are criticizing a legitimately concerning trend in this community and you get told lovers of dragon boys and hrothgar daddies that you need to fix the hate in your heart. This kind of highschool crap is so abundant in this community. If anything, it's more the immaturity of this community that is showing. Too immature to care about own performance and impact on quality of life of their fellow players. It's apathy because I know that if you put in a little bit of time in looking up guide videos for classed you play, you will manage just fine in most content. We don't see that though, do we. A lot of players with shocking performances in this game. The response you got by some people is so predictable at this point, it's actually kind of pathetic.

Maybe someone should give me a Snickers though, so I can also cure all that hate inside my heart lmao

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*gives Starflake a Snickers* (no I don't think you have hate in your heart) :D

You took the "cure the hate in your heart" comment out of context. It wasn't directed to the OP but rather to a toxic comment made by someone who comes across as arrogant and self-righteous. Which goes to show that the way one gives advice is as important as advice itself. Accepting criticism, even if it's constructive, is not easy in the best of cases. If someone has hundreds of hours invested into a game and someone else comes and tells them they are playing the wrong way, how do you think they'll feel? And what will their first reaction be?

Ultimately people should be fine if others reject help offers. It's a diverse community made of all sorts of individuals from different countries and different life experiences. Also trying to generalise and branding the entire community with various labels, isn't constructive and will never work. Diversity resists such branding. And diversity is power.

Was under the impression that the quoted person was OP, not that it matters though. His comments aren't toxic at all. Which is yet another one of the buzzwords after thrown around here. I feel like I am playing with a bunch of toddlers here. "How do you think these players must feel when someone experienced tells them they are playing their job wrong :'(? How old does one have to be to write this comment down unironically. Like am I missing something here? It's bad when an experienced players points out your flaws in a video game? It gives people an opportunity to be better? Yeah, a lot of people in this community are cringe alright and it boils down again to my point of immaturity. This is baby mentality, celabrating laziness and stubborness while calling is diversity. I won't partake in that sort of perverse discourse.

But sure, if players want to reject advice, they can do so. It just sums them up quite well as a player and it should come as no surprise to them when that vote kick button comes up because nobody wants to carry a deadbeat player who willingfully remains so. I do agree that not this whole community is like that, these are self evident truths, but people will always nitpick and act as if when talking in a broader sense, it must mean I mean everyone. Come on man.

I think I'll diversify my way out of this conversation.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

It's bad when an experienced players points out your flaws in a video game? It gives people an opportunity to be better? Yeah, a lot of people in this community are cringe alright and it boils down again to my point of immaturity. This is baby mentality, celabrating laziness and stubborness while calling is diversity. I won't partake in that sort of perverse discourse.

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Is it bad when experienced players point out your flaws in a video game? It depends on how you point out those flaws, to whom, and in what context. If the player is in a leveling roulette, you are level 80 and they are level 25, then yes, it's probably bad. If the player has 4 months of experience in this game and you have seven years, then maybe it's bad. If this is the player's first MMO and you've been playing since (ESO/FFXI/WOW beta), then it could be bad. Depends entirely on what you say and how you say it.

You're comment about "baby mentality" and "diversity" leads me to believe that, if you've ever experienced negative feedback from those you lecture about playing correctly, you probably deserved it. Going into any "helpful conversation" with that sort of idea on your mind is guaranteed to draw out a negative response.

In the six years I've been playing this game, I have never run into a situation where someone was kicked for sub-par performance. I have never looked at another player as a "deadbeat". I have never run into someone requiring (or receiving) a lecture on 'how to play better'.

Most importantly, the people who apparently deserve all of this opprobrium do not read the forums. Your words do not touch them.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

Was under the impression that the quoted person was OP, not that it matters though. His comments aren't toxic at all. Which is yet another one of the buzzwords after thrown around here. I feel like I am playing with a bunch of toddlers here. "How do you think these players must feel when someone experienced tells them they are playing their job wrong :'(? How old does one have to be to write this comment down unironically. Like am I missing something here? It's bad when an experienced players points out your flaws in a video game? It gives people an opportunity to be better? Yeah, a lot of people in this community are cringe alright and it boils down again to my point of immaturity. This is baby mentality, celabrating laziness and stubborness while calling is diversity. I won't partake in that sort of perverse discourse.

But sure, if players want to reject advice, they can do so. It just sums them up quite well as a player and it should come as no surprise to them when that vote kick button comes up because nobody wants to carry a deadbeat player who willingfully remains so. I do agree that not this whole community is like that, these are self evident truths, but people will always nitpick and act as if when talking in a broader sense, it must mean I mean everyone. Come on man.

I think I'll diversify my way out of this conversation.

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How old does one have to be to write what I wrote? Let me give you a hint my dear: I'm old enough to be your mother. And yes not a man at all.

If caring for people's feelings is "toddler behaviour" then I'll take my "toddler" behaviour any time over your self-righteous indignation at words I never said.

I'll leave it at that and not bother further. As an LGBTQ+ woman and a person with severe mental health issues, I usually stay away from large forums like this one, mainly because of people like you. This was to be an experiment in broadening my social circles, one that seems to be failing miserably, albeit somewhat spectacularly. Live and learn, I guess.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

In the six years I've been playing this game, I have never run into a situation where someone was kicked for sub-par performance. I have never looked at another player as a "deadbeat". I have never run into someone requiring (or receiving) a lecture on 'how to play better'.

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This, last night in my puppet farming run, i was the pld in an alliance where the 2 healers were dead 90% of the time, which result in the whole alliance dead 90% of the time minus me since i can self heal.

It was rather funny at the 3 robots boss fight my robot was still at 50% when other 2 died lol. yet we never kicked the healers, we just said this is a 1 man party lol

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Originally Posted by Juicymama

This, last night in my puppet farming run, i was the pld in an alliance where the 2 healers were dead 90% of the time, which result in the whole alliance dead 90% of the time minus me since i can self heal.

It was rather funny at the 3 robots boss fight my robot was still at 50% when other 2 died lol. yet we never kicked the healers, we just said this is a 1 man party lol

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And you think this is okay to perform like this ? If they are news i can understand but they still need to put some effort in the fight , they are not playing alone and they ruin other player experience

I really wish they made trust stronger/didn't punish you giving you less items, let you 8man with them and remake arr, hw, sb with trust, the less I have to deal with the NA playerbase the better.

-sigh- Tbch this all funnels back to SE. They’ve made it into law by protecting players that play subpar and well below that with their rules. That works for JP just fine since you know, they care about wasting another player’s time and how they themselves perform. For NA, it only protects the players that make the experience pretty crappy for the people that actually care.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

I feel sympathy for you OP. You are criticizing a legitimately concerning trend in this community and you get told lovers of dragon boys and hrothgar daddies that you need to fix the hate in your heart. This kind of highschool crap is so abundant in this community. If anything, it's more the immaturity of this community that is showing. Too immature to care about own performance and impact on quality of life of their fellow players. It's apathy because I know that if you put in a little bit of time in looking up guide videos for classed you play, you will manage just fine in most content. We don't see that though, do we. A lot of players with shocking performances in this game. The response you got by some people is so predictable at this point, it's actually kind of pathetic.

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That sums it up pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

No, they want to play how they want to play comfortably. It's you calling it "poorly". It may also be the limit at which they are comfortable but keep thinking your standards and abilities are everyones.

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I just want to focus on this, with my reading through stuff so far, and bring up a story. And yes, I get this was unsynced, I don't really care.

I joined a party to do Jade Stoa EX, to farm the doggo. I get it, it's old content, but I want to focus on the dancer that was in the party. In each of the pulls, they were very consistent in doing... Let's see.

1) Never performing either step dance ever.
2) In terms of actual attacks, only Cascade, and that wasn't even full uptime, plenty of space. Speaking of which.
3) using Improvisation during the fight, in the corner of the room, for the full 15 second duration.

When I asked what they were doing, the excuse given was they were on PS4, and performing DNC's kit was uncomfortable on PS4 for them. To which I just had the big question in my head of "Why are you even on the class then if doing DNC's bare minimum is too difficult?"

Would you say that I am simply calling this DNC "poor" at play, when they are just doing what they felt was comfortable? We still kill it, but they aren't contributing, yet are still going to combat the party for the mount. Their choice does in fact have an effect on what I am doing, by not only making it take longer for each drop, but potentially denying me and everyone else that reward while doing so.

I've met different players. Those who made mistakes and corrected them. Those who made mistakes and did not correct them. Those who did not forgive the slightest mistake and started abusing. Those who helped others and were kind. Unfortunately, I was not very lucky. But I will always help those who are kind and those who are willing to listen. For others, I always have an exit button. I never forget that this is a game and that I can always stop it. Many people, sadly, somehow confuse it with reality.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

When I asked what they were doing, the excuse given was they were on PS4, and performing DNC's kit was uncomfortable on PS4 for them. To which I just had the big question in my head of "Why are you even on the class then if doing DNC's bare minimum is too difficult?"

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For what it's worth, DNC is one of the classes that feels like it maps really well to PS4 buttons. I'm not decided where to put all the extra skills, but the core "four dance buttons" work perfectly with the four face buttons. One-two combo on Circle and X; their corresponding triggered skills on Triangle and Square; repeat on the next hotbar for the AOE versions of the skills.

Mind you, if someone doesn't realise they can (and basically have to) rearrange their buttons then it's horribly all-over-the-place when you first unlock the job. Normally for console games, it's the developers' job to figure out a logical skill set that fits on and maps to the buttons, not just throwing everything at the user in a jumble and leaving them to work out if it even can be made to function comfortably.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I just want to focus on this, with my reading through stuff so far, and bring up a story. And yes, I get this was unsynced, I don't really care.

I joined a party to do Jade Stoa EX, to farm the doggo. I get it, it's old content, but I want to focus on the dancer that was in the party. In each of the pulls, they were very consistent in doing... Let's see.

1) Never performing either step dance ever.
2) In terms of actual attacks, only Cascade, and that wasn't even full uptime, plenty of space. Speaking of which.
3) using Improvisation during the fight, in the corner of the room, for the full 15 second duration.

When I asked what they were doing, the excuse given was they were on PS4, and performing DNC's kit was uncomfortable on PS4 for them. To which I just had the big question in my head of "Why are you even on the class then if doing DNC's bare minimum is too difficult?"

Would you say that I am simply calling this DNC "poor" at play, when they are just doing what they felt was comfortable? We still kill it, but they aren't contributing, yet are still going to combat the party for the mount. Their choice does in fact have an effect on what I am doing, by not only making it take longer for each drop, but potentially denying me and everyone else that reward while doing so.

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And you have a perfectly valid right to remove them from your party.. but not to tell them how to play or that they're doing badly. It comes from both sides that if you're not going to play up to "standards" expect to not be included in parties where that is a concern, however if someone is holding back everyone I see nothing wrong with eliminating them from the run. The problem lies in judging and persecuting.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

And you think this is okay to perform like this ? If they are news i can understand but they still need to put some effort in the fight , they are not playing alone and they ruin other player experience

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Subjectively, I don't think it's ok, but it depends on the healers trying, and if so, it may be ok. But if you can still clear the fight, it can actually be kind of fun beating a fight with some kind of handicap.

Objectively, it's up to the party. If no one tries to say anything to help the healers, no one tries to vote kick the healers, and they stay throughout the run, then they deserve that kind of healers. And if they clear the run, then great, they get whatever they get out of it.

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Originally Posted by Destin_Valiant

Is it just me or the players here are kinda sensitive and also not that good? Been playing the game since last fall and what I am noticing is that the players playing the game are not that good and they get easily butthurt when being criticized? Are all of these people just new to the genre or something? I've played many mmorpg games in my life and this one got me scratching my head sometime.

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It's not a FFXIV thing. The over sensitivity of current western (perhaps global) culture is attributed to a whole lot more than what we should probably go into here. But in short yes, a lot of people these days are self-entitled, overly privileged, easily triggered snowflakes. No one ever slapped the spoon out of their mouth when they went for pudding first before the main entre.

As for not being all that good, it doesn't have to do with them being new to the genre so much as they are just lazy. I can accept players being bad if they are trying AND also improving. This tells me that they at least care about putting in an effort and don't want to hold the group back. Some of it does have to do with the 'everyone gets a ribbon' approach to job and encounter design. Many jobs and encounters are continuously simplified for the sake of accessibility. While this is a lucrative technique for the purpose of marketing the product, it is horrendous to what it does to the quality of the playerbase. I assure you this playerbase is far more toxic than it was when I started back in 2015. Granted, the majority of it can be found in echo and hive chambers rather than in game, but the consequences for misbehavior are also much less severe there opposed to in the game.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

But in short yes, a lot of people these days are self-entitled, overly privileged, easily triggered snowflakes.

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And, unfortunately, it works both ways. People who think of themselves as professionals, confident that only for this reason they can be rude. And beginners who deny any advice and instantly fall into enrage. Better to spend half an hour crafting instead of spoiling the fun.

I think it's just two different types of players crashing together. Different philosophies which is why the gap seemingly can't be bridged. Some players who believe that the slowest buffalo should be catered to, and some who believe that the fastest buffalo should be the example. Obscure metaphor, but I think SE could do a little more to drag everyone closer to the center. I've experienced a lot of players who don't do their rotations, use CDs or understand their class properly.

The thing that baffles me is how saying that someone who wants a player to understand their kit is considered selfish and unkind, but that the player who wants to stumble through content is not being selfish and unkind by making everyone else play around their choice of playstyle. It'd be like buying a ticket to an event; there is an unspoken understanding of what your purchase means. Participation and not breaking whatever rules. There is this weird trend in gaming lately, that paying for the game means you're allowed to do whatever you want. You can buy a movie ticket and enjoy the movie, but you might inconvenience someone if you fall asleep on their shoulder ten minutes in.

I agree the range of player "involvement" is a large shadow being cast over FF14 and I'll be curious to see if it's ever addressed, or if the game will go down the route I believe it will, which is catering more to casual content. Which is fine, but not a game that I'm looking to invest time into.


Edit/TLDR/Reply to OP: Yes I think the FFXIV community is a bit sensitive. Even when offered the politest advice from the most well meaning of places I've been told from the range of MYOB to off myself.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And you have a perfectly valid right to remove them from your party.. but not to tell them how to play or that they're doing badly. It comes from both sides that if you're not going to play up to "standards" expect to not be included in parties where that is a concern, however if someone is holding back everyone I see nothing wrong with eliminating them from the run. The problem lies in judging and persecuting.

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How will anyone ever know they're playing poorly or straight up wrong if no one ever tells them. This seems like a very counter-productive attitude that exists purely to justify bad players being bad. I feel sorry for Jijifli because it wasn't their party so they couldn't kick this problematic DNC, but according to you, Jijifli also shouldn't even mention that the DNC is being a nuisance and actually shouldn't even be in said party. We deal with this kind of issue in parties constantly, regardless of content or level, where players just don't put the effort in that others do. This is a team game, if you're not willing to put the effort in and respect your fellow players time, you should not be playing this game, it's selfish beyond belief. No one is entitled to free clears and carries in content just because they don't want to actually try.

I've spoken up in a farm PF before about a player who was dying to all the mechanics and generally just not helping. I got told that person was a friend of said PF leader and they only kicked them after they had been DC'd for about 10 minutes. I shut up after I found it was there friend because I know how it goes, there was a potential for me to get kicked if I kept complaining because people would rather defend their bad friends than admit they shouldn't be there. Did I mention this bad player DC'd after winning the mount the first time it dropped? Very cool.

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Originally Posted by Irisdina_Wiloh

How will anyone ever know they're playing poorly or straight up wrong if no one ever tells them.

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This is an enormous issue. I started playing in Stormblood and thought I was pretty good. I spent over a month at level 70 before I learned about FFLogs and was able to see that my best performance was 16th percentile in an alliance raid. It was the kick in the pants I needed to get better. If I'd never seen that I'd probably still be terrible. No one had ever said anything about my performance, though I'm certain that I frustrated a ton of players with how bad I was.

If players aren't allowed to let people know that there is significant room to improve and provide feedback on how to do so, then the game needs to. Being given a rating compared to other players at the end of instances would be a good start.