Leaving duty debuff issue

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

It changes from normal crown into pve mentor crown , yes you can have it pre equipped which at that case doesnt really help but 9 times out of 10 its a guy from mentor rlt,

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Even if "9 times out of 10 it's a guy from mentor roulette" that doesn't mean that the PvE crown is an indicator that they're from the roulette.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I've had several run-ins with people who queue for them as soon as they become available and are simply not ready for it on an execution level.

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I feel like that part is the game's fault - it does nothing to warn you that the EX duties are designed with a different level of coordination in mind. The characters warn you that it's going to be harder than before, but you get so much of that from the story that it's meaningless.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

Then what's the point of being a mentor if you aren't willing to MENTOR new players?

Of course they're not going to know. Kind of the point of being there as the mentor.

No. Extremes need to stay.

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The problem with keeping extreme trials in the standard mentor roulette is that it's an entirely different level of mentoring to helping newbies in a dungeon or giving general game help. I can do those things but I can't do EX trials, so the game won't let me help with any of it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I feel like that part is the game's fault - it does nothing to warn you that the EX duties are designed with a different level of coordination in mind. The characters warn you that it's going to be harder than before, but you get so much of that from the story that it's meaningless.




The problem with keeping extreme trials in the standard mentor roulette is that it's an entirely different level of mentoring to helping newbies in a dungeon or giving general game help. I can do those things but I can't do EX trials, so the game won't let me help with any of it.

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Just do the best you can.

If mentors aren't willing to commit to an EX trial when they get it in a mentor roulette, then they don't need to be queuing for it. Simple as that. The mentor roulette is not for them. I know it's hard to believe, but its their to mentor newer players in content.

I think the problem is the mindset that the mentor roulette is just another daily to get out of the way and maybe get a neat mount out of it; newbies be damned.

So, players aren't forced to listen to Mentors, even if it's Mentor roulette. The best a Mentor can ever do is explain a fight, and then perform in the fight to the best of their ability. I've been a mentor on my main as long as the system's been around, and I was very actively trying to help people learn the fights and get things done before they even gave us a Mentor roulette. Thing was, nobody wanted to listen to me. I'm listened to more often on my characters that aren't mentors, which is kind of sad.

Honestly, rather than tying the rewards for Mentors to the duty completion itself, which incentivizes bailing and hoping for a roulette full of Mentors, we should probably tie it to commendations. Not normal comms mind you, but only ones earned during mentor roulette, the idea being you were commended by non mentors or other mentors for an exceptional display of skill or knowledge, and for leading your group through the fight or being pivotal in the victory. Rather than just being a body racking up another kill count. Obviously this would make the achievement take longer, and it would be really messy, but then rather than associating the rewards with someone who slammed that roulette everyday all day for a few months, we could associate it with someone who runs the roulette maybe 2~3 times a day, and got a lot of comms for being helpful, rather than just going through the motions. Also imagine the change in tact, the scramble to be perceived as most helpful, heh.

Mentors don't need harsher punishments than anyone else, but they don't need special treatment either. It's entirely optional for everyone to opt into mentorship, both the mentors themselves and the people they are attempting to mentor, whether they are sprouts or not. The people I find most receptive to mentoring generally aren't sprouts, but are usually people getting into endgame things like extremes and savage.

Personally I think the idea of mentor roulette is kinda bad. Mentorship should extend past duties and duty completion. It's hard to mentor even just one person in over a span of several days, let alone up to 7 other people in an hour or two. Honestly though, the difficulty of that considered, giving up on people after 15 minutes sets a real bad precedent. People all learn at different rates, better in different ways, and even learn just completely differently than anyone else. Just because you explain a mechanic in the chat a few times doesn't mean they all learn it. Some people gotta eat dirt to a mechanic two to three dozen times before they'll learn it. Personally, I haven't seen anyone fail a duty timer in such a long time outside of HoH/POTD that I often forget that it's a thing. Work on your level of patience with people, OP. That's the only real advice there is to give.

As a mentor - Fifteen mins is not really a lot of time to put into something.

If it was 30 mins with no improvement, whatever yeah, I'd be all for this, for everyone, not just mentors...

You're a mentor, and sometimes the things we're gonna get thrown in are gonna take some time. If you're not gonna put the time in, you bite the penalty OR vote abandon.

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

Just do the best you can.

If mentors aren't willing to commit to an EX trial when they get it in a mentor roulette, then they don't need to be queuing for it. Simple as that. The mentor roulette is not for them. I know it's hard to believe, but its their to mentor newer players in content.

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But that's the thing. At the current point in time I am entirely confident with providing dungeon-skill-level mentoring. Battle basics, how to handle boss gimmicks, whatever. I'd be happy to step into a mentor role at this level BUT I cannot at this point do EX trials, therefore I cannot mentor them, therefore I cannot participate in being a mentor at any level without possibly landing in a trial I cannot do and would have to leave.

Two levels of mentor roulette, one with and one without those trials included (and appropriate reward scaling), would be a great help.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But that's the thing. At the current point in time I am entirely confident with providing dungeon-skill-level mentoring. Battle basics, how to handle boss gimmicks, whatever. I'd be happy to step into a mentor role at this level BUT I cannot at this point do EX trials, therefore I cannot mentor them, therefore I cannot participate in being a mentor at any level without possibly landing in a trial I cannot do and would have to leave.

Two levels of mentor roulette, one with and one without those trials included (and appropriate reward scaling), would be a great help.

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Yeah. I can stand with that. An "Expert Mentor" Roulette or something.

What doesn't make much sense, is have extremes into mentor roulette. Mentor is a status where you basically help newbies with the basics of the game. That is what you signed for.
Extremes are far from it.

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Originally Posted by SSimpson

I was in a duty for over 15 minutes and left because the raid group didn't get the mechanics of 1 of the edenverse fights...the 3rd 1(iconoclasm?). I'm a pve mentor and have done the fights multiple times and never "lost" one i joined. Today was different.

I explained the mechanics to the 20 people(i'm exaggerating) that seemed new. We died about 4 or 5 times in the fight so even after I explained the mechanics I decided to leave, mind you it's after the 15 minute mark of the raid group.

To my shock, i got slapped with a 30 minute debuff. I left a very crappy party that couldn't make it passed the dps check because the dps kept dying from the umbra/umbral light switching. Remember, I explained how to do it and they were still dying. This wasn't the savage version either.

I think us PvE mentors shouldn't be subject to this punishment when leaving a group. There was no way we were gonna do it so i left. We get punished in the raid group because we get frustrated and then get even more frustrated when we get slapped with this 30 min debuff after we leave. Mentors should be immune to these penalties period.

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Mentors should be subjected to greater penalties, actually.

Mentor is optional. You're saying you're willing to use your time to help other players and be an exemplar of player etiquette.

You don't sound like much of a mentor to me if you give up after 15 minutes.

What you should have done is put up a Vote to Abandon the duty if it was going that badly. Let the group decide whether or not it was worth trying to continue. If it was going as badly as you say, I'm sure it would have passed and you wouldn't have been stuck with a penalty.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

What doesn't make much sense, is have extremes into mentor roulette. Mentor is a status where you basically help newbies with the basics of the game. That is what you signed for.
Extremes are far from it.

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I generally agree with this. Players trying to do EX content should be knowledgeable enough about the game not to need a mentor's help.

I suspect they're still included to assist with queue times, though. JP players use Duty Finder and Party Finder differently than we do.

Not 100% on this. But when you bring up party list if their mentor crown shows up in there it tends to mean they're in as a roulette. As someone who's done the grind, stuck with the parties (EXs included) and has the mount. That was the way I was able to check who else was also doing their roulettes ( and who to watch out for that liked to dip) but this was back when birds was the highest EX

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But that's the thing. At the current point in time I am entirely confident with providing dungeon-skill-level mentoring. Battle basics, how to handle boss gimmicks, whatever. I'd be happy to step into a mentor role at this level BUT I cannot at this point do EX trials, therefore I cannot mentor them, therefore I cannot participate in being a mentor at any level without possibly landing in a trial I cannot do and would have to leave.

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I'd disagree with that - even if you cant help them with that specific trial, you can still fullfill your mentor role in an EX-trial: Simply by giving them the information the game has been withholding from them (as you noted yourself). Educating them about their options - unsych, PF, either watching a guide before attempting these trials or looking specifically for a party to run it blind - is valuable information that they most likely dont have. Maybe you wont get them the clear, but you'll have taught them something more than mechanics and achieved more than getting them their clear.

Personally I feel confident to attempt most EX-trials in mentor roulette, but even I will always tell the group at first that this isnt DF-content, that they should try unsych or PF instead - but that we can give it a go anyways. Sometimes we clear the trial (thats usually when I repeat that this still isnt meant for DF and that they'll have better success using another option), sometimes we dont. Either way I believe the most valuable piece of information I gave them is not that you need to tank-swap at a specific point but that there are better ways to do EX-trials. Thats information that anyone can give out.

(I still wouldnt mind a special roulette with the difficult stuff in it - but until then I dont think anyone should shy away from the roulette because they're worried they wont be able to clear Thordan EX with a bunch of newbies. I mean, you wont, but you'll still be able to give them good advice!)

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Originally Posted by Rae88

*Waves* Hello

Unfortunately what will happen is many mentors will start leaving extreme trials and longer duties while grinding the roulette for their mount :P

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Remove the mount given that's what many are doing it for and could care less about mentoring.

You leave a duty you get a time out. That's normal and the OP isn't some special snowflake that gets a free pass to leave. There is always the option to ask for an abandon and that's up to group to grant that or not.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Remove the mount given that's what many are doing it for and could care less about mentoring.

You leave a duty you get a time out. That's normal and the OP isn't some special snowflake that gets a free pass to leave. There is always the option to ask for an abandon and that's up to group to grant that or not.

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Yes ofc , lets give the middle finger to every mentor who is actively trying to get it.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Yes ofc , lets give the middle finger to every mentor who is actively trying to get it.

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Considering that the rewards are once again the only motivation for most people, yes, they should be given the finger. Mentor should mentor but that isn't rewarding, to most people. Someone might actually enjoy helping people, the people the mentor system should've been made for. Don't worry, not like SE is going to do anything about it, you'll get your precious mount eventually.

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

Considering that the rewards are once again the only motivation for most people, yes, they should be given the finger. Mentor should mentor but that isn't rewarding, to most people. Someone might actually enjoy helping people, the people the mentor system should've been made for. Don't worry, not like SE is going to do anything about it, you'll get your precious mount eventually.

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So even though i try my hardest to help during mentor rlt , the fact that i want the mount means i should get the middle finger. ok

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Originally Posted by Tsaranoga

Considering that the rewards are once again the only motivation for most people, yes, they should be given the finger. Mentor should mentor but that isn't rewarding, to most people. Someone might actually enjoy helping people, the people the mentor system should've been made for. Don't worry, not like SE is going to do anything about it, you'll get your precious mount eventually.

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I enjoy helping and teaching people and everytime I queue up for the mentor roulette I only do so when I'm feeling up to an hour of wiping to any given EX-primal or spending an hour in MSQ-cutscenes. However, having the mount as a carrot is a nice addition to that - whenever I feel bored and in the right mood (aka: patient and helpful), I'll queue up for mentor roulette, thinking "Well, lets see what I get and if I can make some progress on those achievements". Wanting to be helpful and wanting the mount dont exclude each other - personally I'd say my motivation is split 70/30, with the mount being more of an after thought.
I'm studying to become a teacher, because, as I said, I like teaching people - thats my main motivation here, as it should be. But you know, getting a decent salary at the end doesnt hurt either - should I drop my career-choice, because I'm not only motivated to teach kids but also because I'm getting a decent pay for it?

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

Yes ofc , lets give the middle finger to every mentor who is actively trying to get it.

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There doesn't need to be a reward to be a mentor. The mentoring should be the reward. You know fully well what the reality is relative to why many do it and it's NOT MENTORING! I run tons of duties on my main and on many different alts and I can't say I've ever seen a mentor actually try and mentor.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I enjoy helping and teaching people and everytime I queue up for the mentor roulette I only do so when I'm feeling up to an hour of wiping to any given EX-primal or spending an hour in MSQ-cutscenes. However, having the mount as a carrot is a nice addition to that - whenever I feel bored and in the right mood (aka: patient and helpful), I'll queue up for mentor roulette, thinking "Well, lets see what I get and if I can make some progress on those achievements". Wanting to be helpful and wanting the mount dont exclude each other - personally I'd say my motivation is split 70/30, with the mount being more of an after thought.
I'm studying to become a teacher, because, as I said, I like teaching people - thats my main motivation here, as it should be. But you know, getting a decent salary at the end doesnt hurt either - should I drop my career-choice, because I'm not only motivated to teach kids but also because I'm getting a decent pay for it?

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nooo you misunderstood , he isnt like us toxic mentors who want the mount and do our best to help, he can tell SE should give us the middle finger . He just wants to improve the game and the community by simply purging the filth that we mentors are.

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There doesn't need to be a reward to be a mentor. The mentoring should be the reward. You know fully well what the reality is relative to why many do it and it's NOT MENTORING! I run tons of duties on my main and on many different alts and I can't say I've ever seen a mentor actually try and mentor.

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ive reached daily limit so ill have to edit my response in here.

But i am trying and im trying really hard to mentor people. Mentoring people isnt easy , like i said language barriers, toxicity against mentors , ignoring advice, and the anti improvement philosophy alot of players have are all problems a mentor has to go through . Im not a mentor therefore i am kind and helpful , i was kind and helpful before therefore i became a mentor and the game simply said that if i help at least 6000 people i can get a mount something that as a mount collector i wanted , the same goes for assholes mentorship didnt turn those people into assholes they were assholes from the very beginning , case and point tsaranoga saying with confidence that all mentors should get the middle finger from SE . The thing is i am a good mentor , i have friends who are also good mentors , and i have friends who are good and helpful that want to be mentors and want that mount.


Im tired of being insulted simply cause i have a crown next to my name and people asking from SE that they should remove the reward they put for the effort this achievement needs. All this just cause you people met some unrelated person who was an asshole therefore i should also be one.

I like teaching people how to do extremes if they can catch on reasonably quickly and follow instructions...but that's proven be more of the exception then the norm.

It doesn't help that execution of mechanics is only one part of the equation and there's no guarantees they're playing their class/role well, particularly when it comes to healers and tanks (Overhealing and not mitigating properly are the main issues I tend I encounter).

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

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Im tired of being insulted simply cause i have a crown next to my name and people asking from SE that they should remove the reward they put for the effort this achievement needs. All this just cause you people met some unrelated person who was an asshole therefore i should also be one.

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I think you're taking this too personally, bud. Nobody should be insulting you nor giving you the finger. That's wrong and I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

As for the mount, the argument is that there shouldn't be a mount just to coax players into being mentors. Unfortunately, the mount has attracted a series of players who care not for the responsibility of being a mentor, and only want the crown and mount and any new players are just a hindrance to that objective.

These are type of players that has insulted the purpose of mentoring and why people feel they should be held at a higher level of penalties for negating those responsibilities.

I don't mind the mount, but you shouldn't get it just because you ran a number of roulettes, because you could have not helped a single person the whole time and just been an arse.

I'm not saying you personally. If you are the good mentor you claim to be, then still be that. Goodness knows we need them.