State of the game

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

I appreciate the feedback but I do think you're missing the point. I am not oblivious to how the world works I know there are bad people out there. The best example I can give is this:

Just think of giving your money to a business for a service then one day you call customer service for help only to be met with insults by more than one person who indirectly represent that business and then ban your phone number for a half hour.

Would you think twice before giving your money to that business again?

---

That's not what this is though. This is going to a McDonalds, asking a fellow customer what he would suggest and having that customer and his friends berate you about "Not knowing what you want. LOL."

Then blaming the McDonalds for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

I think the biggest thing that got to me was the fact I spoke up and disagreed with how a mentor handled the situation and got muted for 30 mins while the rouge mentor got praised and got away with it. To me, this is an abuse of power and while this was happening other people in the channel were sorta egging the problematic mentor on and I seem to think that this kind of toxic behavior is not only accepted but encouraged.

---

Unless people report them, nothing will be done and they will be able to continue behaving that way.

Silence doesn't mean approval. How many others were in that NN at the time but said nothing at all? Perhaps they're unwilling to report that incident and others they've witnessed just like you didn't. Trying to confront them in NN obviously doesn't work when the ones causing the problem have control.

Report, don't confront. If SE isn't informed that it's happening nothing will be done. The toxic players will continue to run the place.

I have never seen anything like this on the NN and only saw typical banter and when a question was asked, typically was answered and then right back to banter. Must be different by server.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

So I posted in the NN that I didn't believe the percentages actually meant much in gathering and it was weird that one node with 79% chances hits all 4 times where as another node with 94% chance hits nothing.

---

While the response definitely sounds unfair and could have been handled far more helpfully (and sounds like they're just waiting for a chance to ridicule people instead of actually explaining things), on your actual question - it is indeed just a matter of random chance and not a failure of the system for you to get 0 out of 4 at 94% chance of success. It's just that there's a... (reaches for calculator) 0.001296% or 1-in-77610 chance of it happening.

If it's happening repeatedly, something strange is going on. But if it only happened once (or even twice), that's pure luck. Percentages are about the average result you'll get over many attempts, and if you gather from that node with that chance 100 times you will probably have about 94 successes and 6 failures. You just got several of those failures at once.

one anecdotal experience in a global chat that is known for not always being the most helpful isn't really reflective on the state of the game. While the experience you had was a negative one and it's a shame that it happened, you would have eventually come across these types of people because it's the internet and just because they happen to be a mentor doesn't mean that they are always going to be positive and helpful. I personally wouldn't let this prevent you from actually enjoying the game, just ignore it and move on. You kind of have to when it comes to MMO's because this is just how it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

I played this game about a year and a half, two years ago and everything was great. I just re-subbed for a month and it's gone extremely down hill since I last played. The toxicity of this game is now unmatched and today was my last draw.

So I was mining and I posted a statement/question about mining percentages on the Novice Network only to be met with insults and made fun of by not only 1 but 2 mentors. After which I politely explained my reasoning behind my statement, I said I didn't appreciate the insults from the said mentor, as a mentor he shouldn't talk to players like that and explained that this game has gone down hill then to be met with a 30min ban from the channel.

Sad at what this game has become since I last played. I won't be re-subbing anymore and will pretty much move on from this.

Thanks,
o/ TC all

---

Yep, this is typical mentor behavior. I have had a similar experience in the past. The mentor system just needs to be removed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

I suppose it doesn't help that the requirement included 1,500 comms. If you're somebody who mainly queues pre-made or semi-premade then it takes a while to get 1,500 comms. If you're like me and are actually spread across more than one character, I have enough comms...just not on a single character. I would consider contributing to NN otherwise. I feel like the mentor system could also be done better, because I don't think the system is fit for purpose. As much as a community people can combat the crappy attitudes towards new players in the novice network, I think a smarter mentor system would be more effective.

Just have "recommend for mentorship" as an option at the each of every instance with no incentives like a challenge log for people to grant it to somebody. Whilst not perfect, it clearly communicates that this is just there if you think somebody was helpful. Make a certain number of recommendations a requirement to mentorship. Avoid any kind of glory status with the title, it's purely there to show people that you are to help and to give advice and offer the novice network to them. People who have the right attitude in wanting to help newbies don't need an incentive scheme to do it. If an incentive/reward were needed, maybe once you're a mentor your "recommendation for mentorship" could be upgraded to "helpful mentor". And they could lead to rewards.

These would be more meaningful and make clear their intended purpose, so a leafer is less likely to give "helpful mentor" if you've been a jerk and been completely unproductive.

If they then wanted to, tie the current mentor system to some glory thing instead. This then fills that niche and clogs up the mentor system less.

It's not a perfect system still and will have its flaws, but I think would be more representative and effective than what we have now because it shifts incentives and is more transparent.

---

I like your idea, although with the current system, the high commendation requirement does leave out potentially worse mentor candidate. Mentor is also more about helping strangers at a basic level, which is probably why pre-made group where people have more control over who they group with might not fit. As for having multiple alts, it just shows that this game is really not meant for alt characters, though it's not impossible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razard

That's not what this is though. This is going to a McDonalds, asking a fellow customer what he would suggest and having that customer and his friends berate you about "Not knowing what you want. LOL."

Then blaming the McDonalds for it.

---

I do understand what you're saying. Let me rephrase my/your analogy, When you go into McDonalds and you see people standing around with tags that say "Hi, I don't work here but you can approach me for help" and when you do the person is anything but helpful. Then after that you tell the person "You know you're not that helpful" Another person, given the power by McDonalds" to stop you from speaking for 30 mins in the restaurant. Wouldn't ask to yourself? Why would McDonallds let people do that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

I do understand what you're saying. Let me rephrase my/your analogy, When you go into McDonalds and you see people standing around with tags that say "Hi, I don't work here but you can approach me for help" and when you do the person is anything but helpful. Then after that you tell the person "You know you're not that helpful" Another person, given the power by McDonalds" to stop you from speaking for 30 mins in the restaurant. Wouldn't ask to yourself? Why would McDonallds let people do that?

---

A mentor should actually lose their status after poor behavior. Without true oversight by SE this system is garbage. Again, it needs to be shutdown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

A mentor should actually lose their status after poor behavior. Without true oversight by SE this system is garbage. Again, it needs to be shutdown.

---

*for the West

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

That is a very fair assumption and I will sum it up the best I can.

I was mining and I started to see obvious signs that possibly maybe mining could be flawed in a way that 1 node with a 79% chance hits all 4 times where as in the next node I use abilities with a 94% chance hits 0 times.

So I posted in the NN that I didn't believe the percentages actually meant much in gathering and it was weird that one node with 79% chances hits all 4 times where as another node with 94% chance hits nothing.

After a mentor then started to insult me and make fun of me saying things to the effect of " Really man everyone learns percentages in grade school" and "grats! you just learned how percentages work!"

Which I replied I didn't appreciate the insults and I was aware how these things work and maybe he should rethink being a mentor. I also said that I have never been spoken too like that before by a mentor and has this game gotten that bad? to which after that I was given a 30min ban for negative behavior.

Edit: Sorry i forgot to add that other people in the chat were saying things like "Oh i feel a ban coming" or "Let me get the popcorn"

---

that is not a insult, it's just a snarky reply, you get offended way too easily and I have seen this same scenario play out many times but nobody ever got butthurt by it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

that is not a insult, it's just a snarky reply, you get offended way too easily and I have seen this same scenario play out many times but nobody ever got butthurt by it.

---

And the 30 min mute given to me without warning by another mentor was justified why?

State of the game is BOT BOT BOT gathering all those ephemeral nodes, craft all the Neo gear and market undercut bot by 1 gil, make $$$$$$$$$$$

Most bot approved game on the market!!

Gonna be real, I'd have to see the logs to asses the situation properly because there's always two sides to a story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErryK

Gonna be real, I'd have to see the logs to asses the situation properly because there's always two sides to a story.

---

Here ya go: https://gyazo.com/e52ee07e88d4aa55c6430b3dae785729
Color coded for your convenience
Red is one mentor, Blue is another, Green are various sprouts and returners.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasuraoTsukino

Here ya go: https://gyazo.com/e52ee07e88d4aa55c6430b3dae785729
Color coded for your convenience
Red is one mentor, Blue is another, Green are various sprouts and returners.

---

Typical. "Last warning" by someone disparaging lalas in another breath. I should go grab mentor status again, so I can go on a (pointless) power trip as well. That is so me. Mentorship, and the NN is a dump as usual I see. Only strengthens my opinion that it is worthless in every way.

I've never unlocked the NN but I can tell you from what I've heard the whole mentor/NN system is a complete failure. SE should just wipe the whole system and I don't think single person would care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

And the 30 min mute given to me without warning by another mentor was justified why?

---

You werent excatly friendly, either - if you take the comment that basic percentage is something thats taught in primary school as offensive, why shouldnt someone else take offense by your comment "sad you are a mentor"? Why is it okay for you to tell them that they're a bad mentor, but not okay for them to comment that you're bad at math?

Maybe this is my personal perception but the whole conversation can be read with you being someone who wants to stire up trouble - complaining about missing your nodes, then starting an argument with other people in said chat etc. I could see this being viewed as someone who just wants to argue and/or b*tch around - even if this wasnt your intention (just how it might not have been the intention of the mentor to directly attack or insult you with his comment).
And in order to prevent the chat turning into a personal argument between the two of you, they removed you for a bit - unfair? Maybe. Probably. But each server can make up their own rules about whats okay in the Network and what isnt - and if your server doesnt want arguments, they can take action to prevent that. And if people viewed your comments as more problematic than the ones of the mentor, they can remove you - and not wanting to be rude: I can see reasons to remove either of you. You didnt come off as super friendly aswell as easly triggered - and if the mentors "humor" spoke to more people and fits the general atmosphere of Midgardsormrs NN better (maybe its a place with some light teasing?) then its you who gets removed.

Just as a sidenote: You have no "right" to be in said network - its part of the game, but its not like you pay a special fee to enter it or anything.

Blue one was sarcastic
red one was an ass
You were sarcastic back

conclusion youre all grounded

btw just in case you missed the blue in the end did answer back :p
also to go a bit further in case you still have the question. Its pure rng unless you have 100% then you have a chance to fail. Thats the fast explanation the large explanation is of the billion and billion of experiments done to measure the chance of fail to be 30%, you managed to hit a sequence of successes while on the 15% you managed to hit a sequence of fails . its hellah unlucky but its not unreasonable, also take it with a grain of salt but i think ive managed to fail with 100% chance =w=" on crafting back in stormblood so better pray to rng day and night :P.
usually we sacrifice lalas for good rng

Either way, the name in blue, "Jio" as the censoring overlooked, technically started it, and everyone else just stirred the pot. It could've just ended then and there when Masurao answered, but blue didn't need to respond that way. Drakore could've used better words himself or just ignored it, but we take offense differently.

One thing is true though. The answer to your question is just simple logic. You'll always have a chance to fail if your chances are below 100%.

Read the logs. OP is the type of person that overreacts and gets offended easily. Done.

Innit great when people coddle and give gentle pats uwu~ with so little context? Just because it sounds like they're right.

Right, and I said "Oh I'm done" still got a 30 min mute. I didn't "cover up" or lie about anything it's all there and I still stand by my original statement that those particular mentors were downright just rude and misused their mentor status. The statements made by "blue and red" were not needed and if they had nothing helpful to say then maybe they shouldn't of said anything. I am also a little confused as to why you covered up the mentor names. If you wanted to post the conversation then also don't cover up the people that were saying those things. Your color cover up is just protecting those mentors that abused their abilities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EtherRose

Read the logs. OP is the type of person that overreacts and gets offended easily. Done.

---

Well this is just yet more evidence that this game has gone down hill. If you're a mentor and have nothing helpful or useful to say about my original statement then maybe just not say anything?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

Well this is just yet more evidence that this game has gone down hill. If you're a mentor and have nothing helpful or useful to say about my original statement then maybe just not say anything?

---

That is general a good advice and we all - not only mentors - should follow it!

...now did you had something useful to say or a legit questions for the people present? One could make a case that the NN should only be used to ask legit questions or advice - not to comment on or complain about once personal experience with the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

Right, and I said "Oh I'm done" still got a 30 min mute. I didn't "cover up" or lie about anything it's all there and I still stand by my original statement that those particular mentors were downright just rude and misused their mentor status. The statements made by "blue and red" were not needed and if they had nothing helpful to say then maybe they shouldn't of said anything. I am also a little confused as to why you covered up the mentor names. If you wanted to post the conversation then also don't cover up the people that were saying those things. Your color cover up is just protecting those mentors that abused their abilities.

---

There is a strict "no naming (and shaming)" policy on the forums - you have to cover up names in any screenshots you post. Most people even cover up names in positive posts, just to be on the save side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vidu

That is general a good advice and we all - not only mentors - should follow it!

...now did you had something useful to say or a legit questions for the people present? One could make a case that the NN should only be used to ask legit questions or advice - not to comment on or complain about once personal experience with the game.

---

Yup, I am/was a returning player that just got into crafting/gathering and was expressing some questions/advice about how the %s worked with each node which oddly enough was being answered accurately by non-mentor players until this little unfortunate event happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasikko

I've been playing online games for over 20yrs, and there's a pattern I've noticed. Over time, the friendly people eventually become outnumbered by the nasty people. The ones who hate the game so much but wont freaking go away - they drive the friendly players away. FFXIV is heading in this direction as well..

---

Sounds like every job... and even life itself. Hehe

Since everybody seems to be shitting on the NN, I personally had a pretty great experience in NN as returner. All mentors, as well as sprouts and other returners were really helpful. Some put real effort to look something up or test stuff, as well as help complete/queue for deserted duties. Mentors would jump at any opportunity to help, you ask 1 question and you'd see 4 mentors answer at same time. Kind of miss NN since it was pretty handy for asking questions about stuff that you won't immediately find by looking up., it had really served me well tbh as returner.

Was also nice as general chat, had some interesting conversations there.

Im telling you those wow refugees took our commendations!

Op stop being a drama queen, they were a little passive aggressive so was you. In other mmorpgs you would be called names at that point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Im telling you those wow refugees took our commendations!

Op stop being a drama queen, they were a little passive aggressive so was you. In other mmorpgs you would be called names at that point.

---

Thank you once again for proving my point about where this game is heading. The name calling is not warranted and uncalled for. The post was about the state of the game and the mentors actions that were very unbecoming. And thank you for also helping me further make my decision about weather to continue to play this game or not.

And in case you have forgotten, or just plain don't know, the rules, or expectations, of mentors in FFXIV:

Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

Emphasis on rules 1 and 2.

Thanks

Clearly they violated and did not follow rules 1 and 2.

I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said: There should be absolutely zero rewards for becoming a mentor. It's that kind of system that paves the way for toxic players to ride right on in.

True mentors in the game get a sense of accomplishment when they know they've helped other players. That is their reward. That is why the true mentors in this game have no crown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

That is a very fair assumption and I will sum it up the best I can.

I was mining and I started to see obvious signs that possibly maybe mining could be flawed in a way that 1 node with a 79% chance hits all 4 times where as in the next node I use abilities with a 94% chance hits 0 times.

So I posted in the NN that I didn't believe the percentages actually meant much in gathering and it was weird that one node with 79% chances hits all 4 times where as another node with 94% chance hits nothing.

After a mentor then started to insult me and make fun of me saying things to the effect of " Really man everyone learns percentages in grade school" and "grats! you just learned how percentages work!"

Which I replied I didn't appreciate the insults and I was aware how these things work and maybe he should rethink being a mentor. I also said that I have never been spoken too like that before by a mentor and has this game gotten that bad? to which after that I was given a 30min ban for negative behavior.

Edit: Sorry i forgot to add that other people in the chat were saying things like "Oh i feel a ban coming" or "Let me get the popcorn"

---

Dude idk if it's just me but imo you really overreacted there. Personally I'd take what they said as a funny and laugh it off, wouldn't immediately see it as an insult. Either way, you'd be better off changing your attitude and expectations for online interactions.

I do agree however that it sucks when you get banned/punished for something and you believe it isn't justified. Have had vaguely similar experiences and you truly do feel powerless and greatly annoyed so I understand the frustration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

Dude idk if it's just me but imo you really overreacted there. Personally I'd take what they said as a funny and laugh it off, wouldn't immediately see it as an insult. Either way, you'd be better off changing your attitude and expectations for online interactions.

I do agree however that it sucks when you get banned/punished for something and you believe it isn't justified. Have had vaguely similar experiences and you truly do feel powerless and greatly annoyed so I understand the frustration.

---

You know, I think if it were any normal player that had done that I may of done what you suggested but it was the fact that it was two mentors and I felt being ganged up on is what lead me to this post. And also the fact that I got muted from the channel while the other mentor(s) got no punishment was even more of an issue and is why I brought it to the communities attention.

As for me overreacting, I think it was just the initial shock of being talked down too like that from two mentors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

You know, I think if it were any normal player that had done that I may of done what you suggested but it was the fact that it was two mentors and I felt being ganged up on is what lead me to this post. And also the fact that I got muted from the channel while the other mentor(s) got no punishment was even more of an issue and is why I brought it to the communities attention.

As for me overreacting, I think it was just the initial shock of being talked down too like that from two mentors.

---

Yeah actually I get now how it must have felt like if you see mentors as esteemed figures. I think what would help then is to realize that mentors really aren't special or something, they're just players who got crown next to their name because they've been playing the game for a while, they didn't really earn it by merit since you can grind your way into mentor position. They are not people that you should look up to or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

You know, I think if it were any normal player that had done that I may of done what you suggested but it was the fact that it was two mentors and I felt being ganged up on is what lead me to this post. And also the fact that I got muted from the channel while the other mentor(s) got no punishment was even more of an issue and is why I brought it to the communities attention.

As for me overreacting, I think it was just the initial shock of being talked down too like that from two mentors.

---

No I don't think you're overreacting. I think it's natural to expect a bit more from mentors when you're a new player or returner who may be unaware as to how the community in general treats the mentor feature. SE describes it in one way, the community uses it in another.

I think you're justified in being angry about this. Not only were they were the opposite of helpful, you got muted and they got away with their awful behaviour. That would make anyone feel bad. Mentors or not, that's a crappy situation to deal with.

But at least you know now that if you're seeking help you need to be wary of those who wear the crown.

I really do appreciate that Penthea, I am actually not angry about the situation but more saddened by it all, I never expected that kind of treatment from people who are mentors in this game, but I now know that my expectations were a little too high from people who are mentors. What really scares me is that newer players, or returners, who see this and think now think twice before using the NN system.

I think this may of been just an isolated incident and if any new or returner players read this to please keep using the NN system, I am sure that, for the most part, 90% of mentors are genuinely very nice and helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordDrakore

Thank you once again for proving my point about where this game is heading. The name calling is not warranted and uncalled for. The post was about the state of the game and the mentors actions that were very unbecoming. And thank you for also helping me further make my decision about weather to continue to play this game or not.
And in case you have forgotten, or just plain don't know, the rules, or expectations, of mentors in FFXIV:
Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

Emphasis on rules 1 and 2.

Thanks

Clearly they violated and did not follow rules 1 and 2.

---

Did they broke any rules idk im not GM, ToS is so wiggly and written so badly that it all depends on how good day the GM has so you cant 100% say they did broke any rules. They tend to not give any punishments if both sides were being involved like in your case, you openly called them bad, so you got the ball thrown back at you, what else should i have to say here?

I dont know if you played other mmorpgs before, but having some distance to what people say is the trait you should get before entering any of these games, because as i told before other mmorpgs does not have such harsh ToS and random rules and people tend to be waaaay more aggressive than what you experienced in this game today.
The state of the game is fine, welcome to the massive multiplayer online genre, you have people from all around the world with different attitudes and cultures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nedkel

Did they broke any rules idk im not GM, ToS is so wiggly and written so badly that it all depends on how good day the GM has so you cant 100% say they did broke any rules. They tend to not give any punishments if both sides were being involved like in your case.

I dont know if you played other mmorpgs before, but having some distance to what people say is the trait you should get before entering any of these games, because as i told before other mmorpgs does not have such harsh ToS and random rules and people tend to be waaaay more aggressive than what you experienced in this game today.

---

Well, if you must know, I am actually a former game developer and one of the cardinal sins in a game if you are a person who hold some point of authority is no matter how bad a player talks to you is to keep your composure and do not argue or abuse your power to get one over on the player. And let me tell you that in my forums and games I've developed I've been talked down too by players before but no matter how bad it got I never banned, muted, or talked back to a player in such a way. Actually I did the opposite and in some cases brought the player aside and talked to them privately and asked what was wrong and how I could fix their problem or do better.

And you know what? 99% of the time I resolved that player's issue and never had an issue with them again. Now, I say 99% because there is always that 1 or 2 people that no matter what you can do for them they'll never be happy.