The Patch 5.2 Discussion Thread! (Spoilers)

Too much content, not enough context.

Get hype!

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Going back a couple pages:


It's the Hrothgar homeland right? So it should be in Ilsabard, since that's where they're from.
Unless, if it's somewhere else, then the Hrothgar in Bozja moved there from Ilsabard, I guess?

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That's what I figured but someone in my FC was insisting it's near Dalmasca so I was confused, maybe they got mixed up thinking Hrothgar also lived around Dalmasca, or because of the Galabrinth guy in charge of the place? Maybe we'll learn something a little more exact when it comes out.

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Calamity from the skies? (It reminds me more of that red thingy in the middle)

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Interesting take. IIRC, the red thing is meant to symbolise the clash between Zodiark and Hydaelyn which led to the Sundering. This looks more like an outfit or parts of her body, or even being held in the grips of something. You can see her bluish limbs/wings in the upper left and right.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Calling it now, Elidibus has nothing to do with the Ardbert body, but it's actually possession that's Hydaelyn related.

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I'd be down for that if only because of what an utter wildcard it would be.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

No, it's for gatherer in diadem.

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I am talking more about it ( or a similar skill with the same animation) becoming a actual MCH skill later in maybe 6.0, 7.0, or 8.0.

I know it will be Diadem locked skill for gathers to kill enemies.

No way Ryne could go to the Source. I think Cid is on the 1st (probably chased Zenos thru a rabbit hole to there) and him being there is painful to him and the Exarch as their future timeline is stressed.

A friend of mine noticed a voice around the 2:40 mark in the trailer. Listening, it sounds like Hydaelyn saying "Come...closer..." with a sinister sounding tone. It's hard to tell because of the music though, can anybody else make it out?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A friend of mine noticed a voice around the 2:40 mark in the trailer. Listening, it sounds like Hydaelyn saying "Come...closer..." with a sinister sounding tone. It's hard to tell because of the music though, can anybody else make it out?

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That's just Hydaelyn repeating her "Hear... Feel... Think..." catchphrase.

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Originally Posted by Dagget

No way Ryne could go to the Source. I think Cid is on the 1st (probably chased Zenos thru a rabbit hole to there) and him being there is painful to him and the Exarch as their future timeline is stressed.

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She's almost certainly on the Source, given that she's with Cid and the Au Ra from the Return to Ivalice quest series in what looks to be a Garlean controlled area. The Scions have also been working on a way to get back to the Source which isn't likely to be dragged out for much longer given how fast some parts of the story appear to be moving.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

She's almost certainly on the Source, given that she's with Cid and the Au Ra from the Return to Ivalice quest series in what looks to be a Garlean controlled area. The Scions have also been working on a way to get back to the Source which isn't likely to be dragged out for much longer given how fast some parts of the story appear to be moving.

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Yep, expect time for me was always between 5.2 or 5.3 so that the Shadowbringer story can end in 5.3 similar to past expansion's True Endings being during their X.3 MSQ. After that 5.4 and 5.5 can focus on being the Prologues for 6.0

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

From the Ruby Weapon fight:

https://i.imgur.com/cHQXzIp.jpg

Translation: "Loading combat data... Code 'Nael van Darnus'... standby."

pogchamp.jpg

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No, Yoshida, no. Not the meteors. Not again...

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

That's what I figured but someone in my FC was insisting it's near Dalmasca so I was confused, maybe they got mixed up thinking Hrothgar also lived around Dalmasca, or because of the Galabrinth guy in charge of the place? Maybe we'll learn something a little more exact when it comes out.

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According to the lorebook, Bozja is indeed in Othard. Surprised me too since this whole time I thought it was in Ilsabard.

It is interesting that we will have the continuation of the Tactics Raids through this.

The content even requires players to first beat all the 4.X 24 member raids before they can access it in 5.X.

Curious how will this content allows us to progress.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

TThe clouds coalescing over the Crystarium look like regular dense clouds but at the same time there's light bursting through them, so not sure what to make of it... but maybe the early stages of a resurgent flood?

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Those clouds rolling in is the same visual animation used when the Starshower appeared over Eorzea in 1562 after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. The clouds roll in, then burst open into the Starshower. Which implies that it's perhaps being seen OUT-OF-ECHO for the first time in 15 years. And on the First to boot...

In 1.0 it was almost certainly tied into the derailed Presence of Silvertear Lake storyline, but the Final Days is a great opportunity to tie it all together in a clean way that will easily pass for totally-planned-all-along. Ever since the story changed trajectory, the Starshower has awkwardly just been "that thing that appeared in the sky when the Echo sounded and then now people see it in a vision when they're chosen for the Echo". Leaving it at that was fine, but admittedly awkward and anticlimactic. Attaching it to the Final Days tidies things up a bit. Can you see the stitches? Yes. Is it better? Also yes.

This lore / writing team is too good, lol. I half expect them to go back and use the Presence of Silvertear Lake when all of this is over just to bring it all full circle with no loose ends and do a victory dance on the apex of this story for all the trouble it's given them.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

From the Ruby Weapon fight:

https://i.imgur.com/cHQXzIp.jpg

Translation: "Loading combat data... Code 'Nael van Darnus'... standby."

pogchamp.jpg

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I think Ruby Weapon has the ability to copy and use abilities from other Garleans and powerful entities just like the Ultima Weapon did with the 3 Primals back at the Praetorium.

I wouldn't be surprised if the future Jewelry Weapons also share the copy abilities and recycle them into more fearsome mechanic combos.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I think it's just one, at least based on this when you zoom in more.

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Is it just me or does the person in the circle look like a viera wearing a hood? Also seems they're standing in front of a stone sarcophagus?

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

Is it just me or does the person in the circle look like a viera wearing a hood? Also seems they're standing in front of a stone sarcophagus?

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Yeah, looks like a Viera/Viis. Maybe that mural is not related to Hydaelyn at all - the party seems to be in Rak'tika there, so maybe just a depiction of how the Viis were supposed to be the Keepers of the Ronkan knowledge after the Emperor's death due to their longevity?

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Yeah, looks like a Viera/Viis. Maybe that mural is not related to Hydaelyn at all - the party seems to be in Rak'tika there, so maybe just a depiction of how the Viis were supposed to be the Keepers of the Ronkan knowledge after the Emperor's death due to their longevity?

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Or a Viis with the Echo, since everyone we know who awoke to the Echo sees the Starshower, and that mural is depicting it.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Or a Viis with the Echo, since everyone we know who awoke to the Echo sees the Starshower, and that mural is depicting it.

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Can you tell me more about the Starshower from 1.0? I'm only around since ARR, and I don't recall it ever being mentioned for non-legacy players that their characters saw it. Was it like a global event so that everyone just happened to see it? (On a side note, do we know whether Krile saw it?)

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Can you tell me more about the Starshower from 1.0? I'm only around since ARR, and I don't recall it ever being mentioned for non-legacy players that their characters saw it. Was it like a global event so that everyone just happened to see it? (On a side note, do we know whether Krile saw it?)

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I think Moose would be able to give a more coherent and factual answer regarding this, but in 1.0 the Starshower appeared over Silvertear Lake when people began to manifest the Echo. This would be passively retconned in 2.0 into a starshower seen in a vision when the Echo awakens in us, and while I'm not sure about Krile, I believe Arenvald early on in the ARR story recounts having a dream of falling stars before he encountered the Scions.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

I think Moose would be able to give a more coherent and factual answer regarding this, but in 1.0 the Starshower appeared over Silvertear Lake when people began to manifest the Echo. This would be passively retconned in 2.0 into a starshower seen in a vision when the Echo awakens in us, and while I'm not sure about Krile, I believe Arenvald early on in the ARR story recounts having a dream of falling stars before he encountered the Scions.

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It was also a part of the very first cutscene our characters are in, in 1.0. We see the star shower, and then suddenly are propelled 10 years into the past.

In Limsa, we interacted with Y’shtola and Sthalmann before he became Rostensthal. In Ul’dah we saw Thancred, F’lhaminn, and 12yo Minfilia and watched her dad die. In Gridania, we interact with Papylmo and the original Yda and fought a treant after their crashing airship broke the forest's barrier.

Zenos in that Dissidia gear tho *bites fist*

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

Zenos in that Dissidia gear tho *bites fist*

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I always wonder why they gave him that armor and now we know.

It was always a teaser to this moment!

Though I suspect Zenos will continue to play a big role until 6.0

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Can you tell me more about the Starshower from 1.0? I'm only around since ARR, and I don't recall it ever being mentioned for non-legacy players that their characters saw it. Was it like a global event so that everyone just happened to see it? (On a side note, do we know whether Krile saw it?)

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

I think Moose would be able to give a more coherent and factual answer regarding this,

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In 1.0, the introductory story involved you wandering around your city-state in 1572 having Echo-induced flashbacks of a significant event in 1562 which set the stage for the coming of a Calamity (which at the time was definitely not Dalamud and was probably something we'd spend the majority of the story trying to prevent - perhaps even successfully). When you first received the Echo, you had a vision of this starshower directly over you wherever you were at the time. However, somehow, one of the Echoes on your 1562 journey is an Echo within an Echo, going deeper into a memory and inadvertently dragging one of the Scions (then a member of the Circle of Knowing) with you into the vision. In 1.0, when the Echo re-created a memory, you could interact with it and things would interact with you back as if you were there - creating a historically inaccurate moment that, but one that allowed for unnoticed truths to be revealed - such as the Circle of Knowing member recognizing that you had the Echo (which would have been a plot twist, because the game never told you you were having visions, leading to a great deal of confusion in the playerbase at the time). Then, suddenly, in the 1562 vision, the sky splits over Mor Dhona and the starshower appears. Everyone in Eorzea seems to see it. But then, after that event, people started getting the Echo, and seeing a vision of that same Starshower when they got it. It seemed very significant at the time, but if it was, it was part of the story that got cut off, because for years even the dev. team has thought of the Starshower as "just that thing you see when you're chosen for the Echo." Until now.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

According to the lorebook, Bozja is indeed in Othard. Surprised me too since this whole time I thought it was in Ilsabard.

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Oh interesting. Maybe that Archades-looking city in the trailer really is Bozja then? I saw people claiming it was but couldn't find a source.

As for how that meshes with the Hrothgar being from Ilsabard, I suppose the ones living in Bozja just moved there.

I've seen Rabanaster (with Imperials) a Garlean-style city, and Amarot in the trailer. I wouldn't say we've seen anything all that new or unknown when it comes to visuals. Bozja itself was literally wiped off the map due to a blast of energy from Dalamud. There could very easily be nothing there at this point in time.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Oh interesting. Maybe that Archades-looking city in the trailer really is Bozja then? I saw people claiming it was but couldn't find a source.

As for how that meshes with the Hrothgar being from Ilsabard, I suppose the ones living in Bozja just moved there.

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The city in the trailer is Rabanastre. You can tell by the architecture, the fact that it's blown half to hell, and the Garlean flags as it's still held by them and they're still fighting Fran's faction. With Gabranth being shown in Goug, it's likely that part of the storyline with Bozja will involve him coming back to Rabanastre in force. Bozja was said to have been completely destroyed by Meteor so we have no idea what to expect there.

Bozja should be destroyed, yes, but there's what very much looks a lunar transmitter shown in the trailer, so I do believe we'll be in Bozja, perhaps even seeing it from an Echo vision. Additionally, in some of the scenes where we're fighting with Cid and traversing the Imperial city time is wonky—enemies are stopped, imperial juggernauts are flying sideways, etc. I expect Gabranth to have unleashed Tartarus and somehow mucked things up.

EDIT: I feel compelled to state that I think it'll be both Rabanastre and Bozja fwiw. There's what appears to be very obviously Rabanastran architecture and the city as we know it, but it seems weird that we'd be shown Dalamud, lunar transmitter, and Hrothgar without any connection to Bozja.

Very curious about what we've combined Garuda with in the new raid series. Ramuh is obviously Ixion + Ramuh. Ifrit looks like Ifrit + Diabolos and maybe a little Ferdiad. Garuda, I'm stumped on, just looks like revamped regular Garuda. Extra set of 4 wings, slimmer build. Her eyes are Cloud of Darkness-y. She doesn't match any of the Mhachi raid bosses as closely as Ifrit's redesign does though.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

In 1.0, the introductory story involved you wandering around your city-state in 1572 having Echo-induced flashbacks of a significant event in 1562 which set the stage for the coming of a Calamity (which at the time was definitely not Dalamud and was probably something we'd spend the majority of the story trying to prevent - perhaps even successfully). When you first received the Echo, you had a vision of this starshower directly over you wherever you were at the time. However, somehow, one of the Echoes on your 1562 journey is an Echo within an Echo, going deeper into a memory and inadvertently dragging one of the Scions (then a member of the Circle of Knowing) with you into the vision. In 1.0, when the Echo re-created a memory, you could interact with it and things would interact with you back as if you were there - creating a historically inaccurate moment that, but one that allowed for unnoticed truths to be revealed - such as the Circle of Knowing member recognizing that you had the Echo (which would have been a plot twist, because the game never told you you were having visions, leading to a great deal of confusion in the playerbase at the time). Then, suddenly, in the 1562 vision, the sky splits over Mor Dhona and the starshower appears. Everyone in Eorzea seems to see it. But then, after that event, people started getting the Echo, and seeing a vision of that same Starshower when they got it. It seemed very significant at the time, but if it was, it was part of the story that got cut off, because for years even the dev. team has thought of the Starshower as "just that thing you see when you're chosen for the Echo." Until now.

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That raises a really interesting question. Could the Scions (and those we see in that cutscene) potentially unlock some form of the echo from that sight? I'd assume since the Scions are still stuck and while the Exarch has made some progress on what to do about getting them back to the Source, I feel this could be the same. Also if Zenos is pictured in Amaurot we know that even an artificial echo could allow you to travel to different shards as well.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Those clouds rolling in is the same visual animation used when the Starshower appeared over Eorzea in 1562 after the Battle of Silvertear Skies. The clouds roll in, then burst open into the Starshower. Which implies that it's perhaps being seen OUT-OF-ECHO for the first time in 15 years. And on the First to boot...

In 1.0 it was almost certainly tied into the derailed Presence of Silvertear Lake storyline, but the Final Days is a great opportunity to tie it all together in a clean way that will easily pass for totally-planned-all-along. Ever since the story changed trajectory, the Starshower has awkwardly just been "that thing that appeared in the sky when the Echo sounded and then now people see it in a vision when they're chosen for the Echo". Leaving it at that was fine, but admittedly awkward and anticlimactic. Attaching it to the Final Days tidies things up a bit. Can you see the stitches? Yes. Is it better? Also yes.

This lore / writing team is too good, lol. I half expect them to go back and use the Presence of Silvertear Lake when all of this is over just to bring it all full circle with no loose ends and do a victory dance on the apex of this story for all the trouble it's given them.

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Pretty cool that they're going back and tying in plenty of the newer scenes to the older lore and doing it so seamlessly.

And yes, the presence is something I'm also hoping/expecting them to make use of. Even Koji, when asked, didn't have much of an idea of how they plan to use it, or at least he wouldn't be drawn out to answer, so it'd be a shame not to put that to use in a future plot thread!

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Originally Posted by Noitems

That raises a really interesting question. Could the Scions (and those we see in that cutscene) potentially unlock some form of the echo from that sight? I'd assume since the Scions are still stuck and while the Exarch has made some progress on what to do about getting them back to the Source, I feel this could be the same. Also if Zenos is pictured in Amaurot we know that even an artificial echo could allow you to travel to different shards as well.

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He's effectively like an Ascian Overlord, but with the Scions un-tethered from their true bodies, it should be possible for them to accomplish something similar to get re-attached to their actual bodies - the thing is they simply pop up in the cutscene in the First bodies, based on the outfits, so it looks like a summoning act. I'm also wondering whether Zenos is possessing a host or there in his actual body (assuming he's actually there), because normally such Rift travel can't bring the body with with the exception of the summoning the Exarch performed on the WoL/D and subsequent summons.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Or a Viis with the Echo, since everyone we know who awoke to the Echo sees the Starshower, and that mural is depicting it.

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Makes a lot of sense, and could explain the the white influx behind her behind her.

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Originally Posted by Daemius

Very curious about what we've combined Garuda with in the new raid series. Ramuh is obviously Ixion + Ramuh. Ifrit looks like Ifrit + Diabolos and maybe a little Ferdiad. Garuda, I'm stumped on, just looks like revamped regular Garuda. Extra set of 4 wings, slimmer build. Her eyes are Cloud of Darkness-y. She doesn't match any of the Mhachi raid bosses as closely as Ifrit's redesign does though.

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Clearly Garuda is combined with XV's Garuds from the Noctis event :p

Thanks MrThinker and Moose! Really interesting, will see whether I can find the mention for ARR players and look up the 1.0 stuff on YouTube, as that sounds really relevant now.

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Originally Posted by Daemius

Very curious about what we've combined Garuda with in the new raid series. Ramuh is obviously Ixion + Ramuh. Ifrit looks like Ifrit + Diabolos and maybe a little Ferdiad. Garuda, I'm stumped on, just looks like revamped regular Garuda. Extra set of 4 wings, slimmer build. Her eyes are Cloud of Darkness-y. She doesn't match any of the Mhachi raid bosses as closely as Ifrit's redesign does though.

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The six wings remind me of Storge, the Lightwarden.
And for Ramuh, I think that there also are a lot of obvious Zurvan similarities as well.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

The six wings remind me of Storge, the Lightwarden.
And for Ramuh, I think that there also are a lot of obvious Zurvan similarities as well.

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Zurvan having some influence on Ramuh makes a lot of sense looking at him now, hadn't thought of that before, but yeah, that's clearly where the wings on him are coming from.

Garuda gonna continue to elude me. I'm gonna just bank on Garuda + Cloud of Darkness + idk, Echidna for now. I can see the Storge influence in the wings as well but I feel like there's gotta be more to this one than Garuda + Storge.

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Originally Posted by Daemius

Very curious about what we've combined Garuda with in the new raid series. Ramuh is obviously Ixion + Ramuh. Ifrit looks like Ifrit + Diabolos and maybe a little Ferdiad. Garuda, I'm stumped on, just looks like revamped regular Garuda. Extra set of 4 wings, slimmer build. Her eyes are Cloud of Darkness-y. She doesn't match any of the Mhachi raid bosses as closely as Ifrit's redesign does though.

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I would wager we remember Chirada & Surparna & combined them into Garuda.

The voice at the end of the trailer sounds like Elidibus, even in English. I think the confusion may come from the fact that the more recent voiced lines from Elidibus-possessing-Zenos were actually spoken by Zenos's voice actor giving a more sedated line delivery.

Here is the one scene where Elidibus's Heavensward-and-onwards voice actor has been heard, back in 3.0:
Video

Compare the trailer (timestamped).

Sounds definitively the same to me, just as in the Japanese version.

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Originally Posted by Keever

The voice at the end of the trailer sounds like Elidibus, even in English. I think the confusion may come from the fact that the more recent voiced lines from Elidibus-possessing-Zenos were actually spoken by Zenos's voice actor giving a more sedated line delivery.

Here is the one scene where Elidibus's Heavensward-and-onwards voice actor has been heard, back in 3.0:
Video

Compare the trailer (timestamped).

Sounds definitively the same to me, just as in the Japanese version.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that Heavensward stinger scene currently the only scene he had a voice in?

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt that Heavensward stinger scene currently the only scene he had a voice in?

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From what I remember it is the only scene where he speaks with his real voice. The other scenes he seaks with Zenos's voice to, probably, maintain the illusion it was the real Zenos speaking.

However, despite this unique scene, I can confirm it is Elidibus speaking in the French version as well.

Wonder if the female pilot of Ruby will be one of the two royal guards.

Also think the story will start us going to ala mhigo learn about the weapons, side quest then opens up, but msq have us go back to the First.

Think our mystery trial will either be Cid's malformed father or Gabranth I lean more on Gabranth but the former would interest me more.

Seeing Cid in a pld/DoH/L battle pose has me wondering what he is doing and whether he becomes a future trust(Which then has me hoping Nero gets jealous and wants to help us later :P).

I don't think Zurvan made any inffluence over Ramuh's design besides using its rig, XIV is really smart with reusing model rigs to ease animation production.

I would wager Eden's recreation of Ramuh is a conflation of the original and Ixion, another noteworthy enemy fond of lightning attacks.