Bozja Citadel (ShB Relics) - What I would like to see

What I'd like to see, is two different methods to get the relics.
One the ARR-HW style, which bolis down to "Hand in thousands of uncapped tomestones."
And another, based on ... whatever they'd be planning if they thought Eureka was a huge hit.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's possible we may not get Lionheart but instead Save the Queen, which fits for the GNB considering they were the queen's royal guard.

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But that's not a gunblade o.o

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Originally Posted by Valic

But that's not a gunblade o.o

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It can be. It's just a name, isn't it?

My only hope is the new relic isn't running massively behind relevant content again. The biggest flaw to locking the SB relic to Eureka was how far behind each step of the weapon was to all other content at the time. My hope is we are going back to a genuine raid alternative like in ARR and HW.

..and if they ever listened to feedback on Eureka they would have deleted pagos a long time ago.

I like to see relics not tied to ShB job quest gear get at lvl 80 for them. I like to see all new gear design for them.

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Originally Posted by Valic

But that's not a gunblade o.o

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It's been a sword, a whip, a greatsword, an artifact, a bow, a staff, and a gun. It's perfectly plausible for it to once again take another form, except as a gunblade this time.

The only places StQ exists as anything but a knights sword is games that dont have those.

Its specifically NOT a gunblade in the game with gunblades.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's been a sword, a whip, a greatsword, an artifact, a bow, a staff, and a gun. It's perfectly plausible for it to once again take another form, except as a gunblade this time.

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Considering how much FF8 theme this expansion and this job is... I honestly can't see them going with that as the final version. Maybe one of them but as far as appealing to the fanbase and players....

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110218050840

the only option....

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Originally Posted by Ash_

My only hope is the new relic isn't running massively behind relevant content again.

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It already is, in my opinion.

From a strictly item level stand point, who knows. They'll probably be behind Eden stuff, just because that's how SE rolls with Relics now. For me though, Relics have been about providing some "solid" content to grind through during the lulls between major content releases. Already failed on that note.

Relic content really needs to be started with the expansion, not half way through an expansions life cycle... I enjoyed A Relic Reborn back at 2.0s release, it was the right mix of senseless grind and challenge, given Titan (Hard) wasn't yet trivialized by item level bloat. Every expansion since, none of that... No actual quest until mid-way through the expansion, and the quest we do finally get is just... Rubbish... Animus weapons were the absolute worst for me, that questline was so incredibly passive that it is just completely forgettable, entire swathes of that questline got done just doing what I was already doing in game... Definitely an overreaction by SE to complaints about the later ARR quests having objectives that were too specific (the book section with specific FATEs, for example), but having a questline with almost every section giving you several ways to complete it? Doesn't feel like a quest anymore. You're not doing something specific, you're doing literally anything and getting rewarded for it. Eureka at least had us actively going into a new area to do "new" content, it's just a shame that content was just more garbage FATEs and crystal farming... It had so much potential that was just wasted. BA was something nice perhaps, but that's aged like milk; Is it even possible to do anymore? Then there's lore, every ARR weapon had a story that fleshed out the world a bit more. Animus weapons? Creating a weapon with a soul? Great concept, terrible execution IMHO. Eureka weapons? Literally nothing. The based weapon from the Job quest likely has a bit of lore behind it, but that's likely in the lore book, not in game.

Honestly, at this point I'd take them adding ARR Relics for DRK/AST/MCH/RDM/SAM/GNB/DNC (heck lets throw BLU in too) over anything new. I don't trust they'll hit the mark with Bozja Citadel when they've repeatably missed in the past. I don't care about item level, doubt I even care about the glamour, but ARR at least (for the most part) had a solid questline that I had to go out of my way to actually complete, and I wouldn't mind going round that questline once more with the new Jobs. In an ideal world, we'd also get Animus weapons for RDM/SAM/GNB/DNC, and Eureka weapons for GNB/DNC, but well... We can't even get Primal weapons for GNB/DNC so I guess I'll just dream on...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Animus weapons were the absolute worst for me, that questline was so incredibly passive that it is just completely forgettable

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which is the same for eureka, since is basically the same stuff, do this piece of content to gather no-tomestones(eureka cristals + big baddy item + maibe light cristals) to trade your relic weapon, i personally found eureka worse than anima, since at least anima had a variety of methods to how aproach it instead of this one and only one method to grind it out, which made it more interesting
while eureka was basically attack this dummies what hardly do any mechanic for hours to no end to spawn a bigger enemy what hardly had any mechanic as well, and if you died, well, its of no consequence since your death hardly mattered since anyone near could raise you and continue to hit the dummy

I didn't see them announce SB relics or anything. Where did they announce this not seeing it on the lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Xau

which is the same for eureka, since is basically the same stuff, do this piece of content to gather no-tomestones(eureka cristals + big baddy item + maibe light cristals) to trade your relic weapon, i personally found eureka worse than anima, since at least anima had a variety of methods to how aproach it instead of this one and only one method to grind it out, which made it more interesting
while eureka was basically attack this dummies what hardly do any mechanic for hours to no end to spawn a bigger enemy what hardly had any mechanic as well, and if you died, well, its of no consequence since your death hardly mattered since anyone near could raise you and continue to hit the dummy

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As I said, at least with Eureka you had to go out of your way to complete the thing. I loathed what they did with the actual content, given they clearly wanted to tug at some XI nostalgia but just completely missed the mark by centering it around FATEs, so now everyone points at Eureka as a "See, this is why XI inspired content doesn't work", despite FATEs not being remotely close to what XI content.

Animus on the other hand, was basically pick up the quest and play as normal. There were so many options for getting the thing done that you only really needed to change your playstyle if you wanted to finish it extra fast. As a result it didn't feel like a quest to me, it was just done in the background, passively. I didn't have to commit any energy to completing it like I did with ARR Relics or Eureka.

I guess it's a moot point to make though, given we already know Bozja Citadel is going to be similar to Eureka, so it's almost certainly something we have to actively do, unlike Animus weapons. Hopefully they at least get the content within it right this time, I'd said it plenty when Eureka was in its prime, but if Eureka used Levequests, with a tiered progression system for working your way up to higher Notorious Monsters, instead of just FATEs, it would have been vastly improved. That's something you can go in and make progress on alone or with others. You can go in solo, work on getting a Pazuzu Levequest ready, then find a group for it. It's something which would have better synergy with something like the kill Chain mechanics, since you wouldn't be dropping Chain every time a FATE spawns. There'd be no FATE train creating just about the worst atmosphere I've experienced in an MMO, even if it wasn't intentionally, AFKing for rewards was just such insipid design... Levequests also allow for something far closer to actual XI NM mechanics, it would be a XIV spin on things like ZNMs and all the other xNM tier systems (here's a prime example), just replace pop items with Levequests, so maybe you do a low tier NM, get a key item, trade for the next Levequest NM up, and so on. You work towards your own NM spawns and group up for an easier time/more rewards. To me that's fun and engaging. FATE train was the exact opposite; I'm paying a monthly sub for a MMO to play it, not to AFK in it and watch netflix while the FATE train does its thing.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I didn't see them announce SB relics or anything. Where did they announce this not seeing it on the lodestone.

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It was in the last live letter. They talked about it in the digest here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...66#post5260166

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I find that the folks who complain most bitterly about Eureka are the ones who never made it past Pagos. Folks that actually experienced Pyros and Hydatos usually have a much warmer opinion of Eureka as a whole. Not everyone, certainly, but in general. SE certainly did take folks opinions into consideration as the event evolved, and while the final stage certainly had its share of flaws, I found it to be pretty enjoyable, and many others did, as well.

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If the first two steps out of four are so horrible that most who start it dont finish it, then it does not matter how great the last two maps are. People would need to force themselves through hours of content that is not fun for them to maybe enjoy the rest. (You needed quite a bit of hours if you do the relic) Also there is no real statistic there that says how many of those that finished the whole of Eureka really liked the last few steps. There are discussions here and those have not been that great for Eureka either.

Relics are a grind that is true. But often they gave different options for it because not everyone liked everything and you could do them casual over time. Have a bit of time on your hand and you could farm some fates or a bit of light. Get a few tome stones by running the stuff you like. With Eureka you can only do Eureka. Nothing else. This is not only a grind but a hardcore one too. It does not help with queue time of the regular content and people doing it are stuck with it. And you have to be lucky to even get groups farming it.

The worst on Eureka was you just had to drop everything else (besides tome farming maybe) and evel leave friends or FC mates behind if they cant play the times you did - or, get left behind if you could not play 2-3 eves or a weekend.

A better sync, Elemental gear from the get go, with increasing bonus - but optinal, not as in "have it or everthing just oneshots you" to make things easier, hunt marks, leves, dayily quests like "oh the aether there is too tilted to fire lightning so go and kill 20-30 lighning mobs".

I just hope they'll add that and maybe make it a normal zone with several isntances, not an whole instanced area like eureka. On the long run this would solve problems if you could just choose isntance 1-7...

Bring Eureka stuff back! It was flawed but awesome. Added a neat exploration style game the game needed instead of the tired of instanced BS.

Improve upon it and let's spawn Pazuzu's children that want to avenge his death!

I am consistently bothered by the positive comments on Eureka in the forums in general. I doubt it's only trolls, though I can't imagine *anyone* being truly being happy with Eureka
I think part of it is the sunk cost fallacy: "I spent so much time on this, it has to have been good. Right?" Cognitive dissonance maybe. Stockholm Syndrome.

The most important, though: Anemos and *especially* Pagos were so, so, so abysmally awful, that a whole lot of people dropped the relic and more or less wiped Eureka's existence clean from their minds.
So there's no complaints left on the forums, no constructive criticism. *Only* the small fraction of people who (somehow) convinced themselves to enjoy Eureka are still around to talk about it.
I know I'm only still griping about it because I'm one of the weirdos that loved the ARR/HW relics, and I'm super pissed that Eureka deleted that playstyle from the game.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I am consistently bothered by the positive comments on Eureka in the forums in general. I doubt it's only trolls, though I can't imagine *anyone* being truly being happy with Eureka
I think part of it is the sunk cost fallacy: "I spent so much time on this, it has to have been good. Right?" Cognitive dissonance maybe. Stockholm Syndrome.

The most important, though: Anemos and *especially* Pagos were so, so, so abysmally awful, that a whole lot of people dropped the relic and more or less wiped Eureka's existence clean from their minds.
So there's no complaints left on the forums, no constructive criticism. *Only* the small fraction of people who (somehow) convinced themselves to enjoy Eureka are still around to talk about it.
I know I'm only still griping about it because I'm one of the weirdos that loved the ARR/HW relics, and I'm super pissed that Eureka deleted that playstyle from the game.

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This is absolutely nuts. I very much enjoyed Eureka. Like I said earlier it brought an exploration/ open world gameplay style to XIV that the game needed. It felt great helping people travel the zones, giving raises when needed.

It's not perfect but appreciated the change up. Oh and BA is one of the best experiences in the game and I find Anemos one of the most beautiful zones in the entire game.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I am consistently bothered by the positive comments on Eureka in the forums in general. I doubt it's only trolls, though I can't imagine *anyone* being truly being happy with Eureka
I think part of it is the sunk cost fallacy: "I spent so much time on this, it has to have been good. Right?" Cognitive dissonance maybe. Stockholm Syndrome.

The most important, though: Anemos and *especially* Pagos were so, so, so abysmally awful, that a whole lot of people dropped the relic and more or less wiped Eureka's existence clean from their minds.
So there's no complaints left on the forums, no constructive criticism. *Only* the small fraction of people who (somehow) convinced themselves to enjoy Eureka are still around to talk about it.
I know I'm only still griping about it because I'm one of the weirdos that loved the ARR/HW relics, and I'm super pissed that Eureka deleted that playstyle from the game.

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I enjoyed Eureka however feel there is room for additional tuning that could be done with it. Yes a lot of people complained about Eureka here but how much of the actual player base do you think actually posts on a forum? Add to that many if not most of the forum posters here didn't even find the forum until they looked for someplace to complain about something they didn't like about the game.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I enjoyed Eureka however feel there is room for additional tuning that could be done with it. Yes a lot of people complained about Eureka here but how much of the actual player base do you think actually posts on a forum? Add to that many if not most of the forum posters here didn't even find the forum until they looked for someplace to complain about something they didn't like about the game.

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Well none of the folks I know who can't be bothered to talk on the forums liked it either... bitter tears of hatred were cried by all. That includes everyone in my FC who went through it as well as non FC friends. Not exactly a great and large sample I grant, but still... :)

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Originally Posted by Kytrin

Well none of the folks I know who can't be bothered to talk on the forums liked it either... bitter tears of hatred were cried by all. That includes everyone in my FC who went through it as well as non FC friends. Not exactly a great and large sample I grant, but still... :)

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Same here. Not much love for Eureka among those I have played with, but close to none of them go on the forum, instead they either do the content or not. Those who did Eureka was not raiding and as such had more or less nothing else to do in the game, now casual players will have even less to do unless they jump in on this thing, thanks to yet another reduction in the amount of dungeons (less is more and all that).

I've been kind of in the dark in regards to Bozja Citadel. Could anyone throw me a link regarding the announcement or pics perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I've been kind of in the dark in regards to Bozja Citadel. Could anyone throw me a link regarding the announcement or pics perhaps?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/411515-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-LVI-Digest-%2812-20-2019%29?p=5260166#post5260166

They didn't give us much to go on except that it was in the homeland of the Hrothgar. There is some lore behind it though for anyone who did the Gunbreaker job quests from 60-70.

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Originally Posted by Wind-Krysvein

Hello there! It’s been a few weeks since the announcement of Bozja Citadel (heretofore mostly referred to as "Bozja"), the relic questline area for Shadowbringers. These weeks have given people, including me, ample time to think about our relationship with the FFXI-inspired Stormblood relic questline, Eureka, and its strengths and weaknesses. With the finale of Eureka, we perhaps reached an endpoint with the concept of paying homage to oldschool MMORPGs, so what I am going to talk about here are my personal thoughts on what I would like to see in Bozja Citadel. Here we go:

I'll be honest; I would like to see a more modern/varied take on the exploration-based formula: a touch of redoable quest/FATE content and more active exploration, instead of what I and others have seen as a tedium of killing hordes of regular monsters in efforts to summon bigger monsters, as well as FindConfluenceAvoidMonsters.ffxiv, respectively.

That is not to say any of the concepts used in Eureka have to be left out if the developers so choose. Instead, what I would propose in this scenario is content in which all of the above could function in harmony:
● Soloable Beast Tribe-esque quests with their own daily allowances, that can be redone each day to slowly but steadily make your way towards your goal.
● Soloable FATEs which work similarly to normal FATEs in the overworld, spawning independently without requirements of killing hordes of monsters, allowing for more slow yet steady progress.
● Player-personal treasure chests inside Bozja which spawn once each day and yield rewards much like the lockboxes of Eureka, plus more of the "slow yet steady" progress.
○ Notorious Monster FATEs as seen in Eureka.
○ Killing monsters for experience points, as seen in Eureka.
○ "Bunny" FATE treasure hunts, as seen in Eureka.

Now, I understand that there has already been talk of implementing a system that allows for simulatenous progression via "in-Bozja" content, and more traditional relic farming content like in earlier expansions. It's already a great idea, but what I am suggesting here is a method of making the in-Bozja content more in line with the general gameplay of FFXIV, without completely alienating the hardcore "Eureka" audience, either. I believe the combination of both concepts is the key to success.

(continued in 2nd post)

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Sadly I don't think most of what you suggested is going to be implemented because resources are being directed to ff16