Alliance Raids Fix. Show your support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

I already posted in the most recent thread about this. But I have a feeling Devs tend to overlook the many many complaint posts we have and I kept having good ideas on this so I'm proposing a simple yet elegant solution to the Alliance Raid issue (specifically getting ARR content continuously) in three parts.

1) Make the Crystal Tower Raids into a separate roulette called MSQ Alliance Raids. These raids are basically canon now with the new expansion so lets give them the same insane chunk of exp that standard MSQ gets (keep the tome payout) and anyone who is leveling or wants the easier path can chose this option and not take the chance of higher raids away from others who want them.

2) Make Alliance Raids only available to players who unlocked that entire raid tier for their level. So no matter what level you are, if you're queing for MSQ Alliance you'll need all 3 CT raids to unlock it. For Standard Alliance, if you're 80 you'll need all raid tiers (60-current) to unlock the roulette. I think this is pretty fair, considering other roulettes have restrictions like this.

3) Standard Alliance Raid roulette to be locked to the minimum ilvl requirement of THE LEVEL YOU QUE WITH. If you que as lvl 80, you must meet the minimum requirement for Copied Factory or you can't participate in the roulette. Level 70? Minimum for Rabanastre. Level 60? Minimum for Void Ark. No more manipulation of the system. Period.

Please consider this option so I can stop having to choose between leveling or tomes. And maybe not ever see LotA again. Ever.

---

I think (2) and (3) are all that's needed to start with. Maybe pair it with a change that locks Alliance Roulette entirely - and the associated rewards - until someone has unlocked at least six such Raids (i.e. all of the 50- and 60-tier at minimum). It could be that after all this, the needle barely moves, at which point, yeah, maybe we need to split the Roulettes into multiple tiers. But this fractures the base of people seeking to participate at any given time, which could easily have severe, unintended consequences for queue times. I think it should be held in reserve as a last resort, not bundled together with more fundamental changes aiming to prevent people from gaming the system.

Quote:

---

For Standard Alliance, if you're 80 you'll need all raid tiers (60-current) to unlock the roulette. I think this is pretty fair, considering other roulettes have restrictions like this.

---

Uh, what? The only roulettes that dont require two (and only two) unlocks are Expert and Mentor, and those are both considered level cap content. You can queue for leveling at 79 if you only have unlocked the first 2 leveling dungeons. You can queue for raids if you only have the first 2 alexander raids (or any 2 raids) unlocked. You can queue for 50/60/70 at 79 with only Snowcloak and Keeper unlocked. You can queue for trials with only Cape Westwind and Thornmarch Hard.

Alliance is exactly the same. It is not considered level-cap content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barraind

Uh, what? The only roulettes that dont require two (and only two) unlocks are Expert and Mentor, and those are both considered level cap content. You can queue for leveling at 79 if you only have unlocked the first 2 leveling dungeons. You can queue for raids if you only have the first 2 alexander raids (or any 2 raids) unlocked. You can queue for 50/60/70 at 79 with only Snowcloak and Keeper unlocked. You can queue for trials with only Cape Westwind and Thornmarch Hard.

Alliance is exactly the same. It is not considered level-cap content.

---

It used to be. When lvl 50 roulette was separate, you needed all the lvl 50 dungeons (even the optional non story ones) to unlock that roulette. If thats not the case now, then its a huge mistake on the devs part because that root of a lot of the DF manipulation going on. I started in HW. The requirements were fairly different then I guess.

Just nerf the daily reward and increase it for high lvl raids, thats all.
If you make it less profitable to go for low lvl raids then it wont be worth its time.

Patch 4.0 (and 4.3 for raids) standardized EVERY roulette except max level content to require 2 dungeons from that roulette unlocked, and requires the minimum ilvl of either the first 2 unlockable (if its unlocked through msq) or the lowest 2 you have unlocked.

The ONLY requirement for sub-cap roulettes is having the ability to enter 2 instances contained within, specifically because they're used for quest completion, leveling alt classes, ect. The entire point is to make them accessible to anyone on any class as long as you meet the bare minimum requirements.

They should give more tomes and xp for the longer ones. ST is very short so I would rather do that than sit in a 45-50 minute run of anything else outside of the crystal tower raids.

Honestly I agree that something needs to be done.

I am so sick of Alexander and Crystal Tower series I about want to puke the minute I see them because I already know they will be the first to pop. Every now and then I get something else. I don't mind helping newbies... but just as others have stated just as often as not, there's no "new player" bonus popping when you enter.

This isn't a problem and nothing needs to be done to it. If you want to run a specific alliance raid, queue up for it. The only acceptable "fix" would be to increase the reward for the later/more difficult ones to make them more enticing to run (if dodging is actually an issue, I certainly haven't experienced it being so). We don't need more roulettes, we don't need any additional restrictions on the roulette (that no other roulette has), we don't need roulettes limited to once per day (lol this is the absolute worst idea I've ever read in a game where you have to use duty finder to get groups).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

This isn't a problem and nothing needs to be done to it. If you want to run a specific alliance raid, queue up for it. The only acceptable "fix" would be to increase the reward for the later/more difficult ones to make them more enticing to run (if dodging is actually an issue, I certainly haven't experienced it being so). We don't need more roulettes, we don't need any additional restrictions on the roulette (that no other roulette has), we don't need roulettes limited to once per day (lol this is the absolute worst idea I've ever read in a game where you have to use duty finder to get groups).

---

Personally I LOVE The Alexander Raid. I get excited everytime I que for something Alex. And Im a fan of LotA and Syrcus Tower.
But I will say that there should be a rotation. I wont say like PvP, but just...something so more diverse content gets played. Like I can't stand 50/60/70 Roulette, because you always get put into a lv 50 (at least I do) dungeon, and the reward for it is abysmal. Leveling Roulette has a better rotation, and a better reward.

My Main point though, they need to at least get a Rotation of some sort going, then give good decent rewards for doing it. Increase the bigger raid dungeons reward.
Kind of like The Praetorium, thats a long One-Hour No-skip cutscene Dungeon. But for sitting through it, you get nearly a whole level for your time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

This isn't a problem and nothing needs to be done to it. If you want to run a specific alliance raid, queue up for it. The only acceptable "fix" would be to increase the reward for the later/more difficult ones to make them more enticing to run (if dodging is actually an issue, I certainly haven't experienced it being so). We don't need more roulettes, we don't need any additional restrictions on the roulette (that no other roulette has), we don't need roulettes limited to once per day (lol this is the absolute worst idea I've ever read in a game where you have to use duty finder to get groups).

---

Taking off your gear to exploit a loophole the devs never intended for is the definition of a problem. You're simply benefiting from it, thus don't want anything altered. Orbonne can take hours to pop nowadays despite the entire purpose of Alliance Roulette being to help mitigate those queue times.

Please do something SE. I haven't queue'ed for Alliance Roulette in MONTHS because of this. And I'm about to do the same with Normal Raids. I just can't stand Fist/Cuff of the Father anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yeah, no. Let's screw over new level 80 people from getting the tome gear they'd need to get that ilevel by denying them a good daily way to get a high number of those tomes.

---

Im pretty sure you can que for Copied in your base lvl 80 job gear with accessories from the first lvl 80 dungeons. I don't think asking for that very basic amount of preparation is 'screwing' anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

This isn't a problem and nothing needs to be done to it. If you want to run a specific alliance raid, queue up for it. The only acceptable "fix" would be to increase the reward for the later/more difficult ones to make them more enticing to run (if dodging is actually an issue, I certainly haven't experienced it being so). We don't need more roulettes, we don't need any additional restrictions on the roulette (that no other roulette has), we don't need roulettes limited to once per day (lol this is the absolute worst idea I've ever read in a game where you have to use duty finder to get groups).

---

You can run roulettes as many times as you like. You can only get the bonus once and in most MMO, this is the case. The 'que for that raid' argument doesn't hold water because only the current raid tier would take less than an hour to que. Making people unlock a whole tier doesn't limit access either, it actually opens access up for the whole group instead of being limited by what content players deigned to unlock. If anyone has an issue with being exposed to the full range of content they can access, then THEY can que for the raid of their choice. The point of this argument is to have open access to all the available content instead of being forced into a constant filter by players who are using the 'access for all' excuse to only play with the most minimum effort. Which defeats the purpose of a 'roulette'.

A game of chance thats rigged is no game at all. Its just a trick that you get stuck participating in.

Just make Alliance Raid ilvl requirement equal to the highest alliance raid of your level (that you've unlocked). So if you're level 70, you cannot game the system into giving you Crystal Tower raids only, you must meet ilvl requirements for Rabanastre/Lighthouse/Orbonne (whichever is the highest you've unlocked) in order to even enter the queue.

Its called a roulette not Crystal Tower Trials.

The other day I was on my Au Ra main and the excitement that blew up in the chat when I was going through delta scape was real. I normally don't que for normal raids as much so I didn't know that even that was being forced into an Alexander foreverland. Something needs to happen for sure. The fact that a group of players is controlling a roulette and trying to tell others to not que if they don't like it, is pure BS. I shouldn't have to specifically que up for something just to get some kind of variety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Im pretty sure you can que for Copied in your base lvl 80 job gear with accessories from the first lvl 80 dungeons. I don't think asking for that very basic amount of preparation is 'screwing' anyone.

---

The weathered gear is 430 and Grand Cosmos drops are 445. CF requires i435. So basically spam Grand Cosmos. The other 3 are i430 accessories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rasikko

The weathered gear is 430 and Grand Cosmos drops are 445. CF requires i435. So basically spam Grand Cosmos. The other 3 are i430 accessories.

---

Don't forget Ronkan gears, which are 440. Gearing up to meet requirements for regular duties is very easy to do in FFXIV as long as people are willing to do the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Its called a roulette not Crystal Tower Trials.

The other day I was on my Au Ra main and the excitement that blew up in the chat when I was going through delta scape was real. I normally don't que for normal raids as much so I didn't know that even that was being forced into an Alexander foreverland. Something needs to happen for sure. The fact that a group of players is controlling a roulette and trying to tell others to not que if they don't like it, is pure BS. I shouldn't have to specifically que up for something just to get some kind of variety.

---

Yeah exactly,

I used to love Alex, but not anymore.

I'm in favor of just making the roulette just requiring you to have a certain ilvl based on your level.

Level 50+? Have to have enough ilvl to do WOD to queue in.

60+? Must have ilvl to do Dun Scaithe to queue.

70+? Must have the ilvl to do Orbonne. And then at 80, to do Copied Factory.

This still gives some leeway when leveling so you can still do the roulette for exp but prevents people from cheesing ilvl and making it hard for people queuing for later alliance raids to get in, and also doesn't bloat the roulette list by breaking alliance raids until multiple roulettes. The whole point of roulettes isn't easy exp, but the exp is an incentive to keep people queuing for things and when people drop their ilvl to get certain raids it circumvents the reason why these roulettes actually exist, and so something should be done about it.

Edit: Do something similar for 8 man raid roulettes too.

I'm in. I'm freaking bored of ARR 24-man and Alexander 8-man raid in roulettes. It's not only for exp, it's just annoying to always see the same thing, every day, because people are playing on ilvl.

I've been queuing for Ridorana and Orbonne lately for Glamour. I can usually get one run of either per weeknight before it gets too late PST. It's hilarious how many people drop out immediately after loading in. Some fights are mechanics-heavy but not really too difficult if you've learned. People just can't be bothered I guess. Surprisingly I've gotten Void Ark twice in one week through roulette.

It's ultra-scumbag move when people just purposely d/c and force parties to vote-kick them between fights (to avoid the penalty), instead of leaving the party themselves. If you are one of these selfish bottom-feeders, please go jump off a bridge. Not only is it very difficult to have a raid stop fighting in order to vote-kick, or even pay attention to the vote-kick. you are also leaving them without a body for those fights until it happens. I had a Healer do this last night in Orbonne in the middle of the first boss fight, leaving our one healer to keep everyone up. Take responsibility for your decision and leave party yourself accepting the penalty.

I agree with OP's suggestion #1 to make Crystal Tower raids be their own roulette, however I also agree they should make the other Alliance Roulette (containing Ivalice and Nier raids) reward like, 100 or 150 Phantasm tomes. Entice people into this content. Right now, aside from completion and glamour, people have no reason to do them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

They could do what they used to do with PvP and cycle through them. One week is lvl 50 alliance, the other lvl 60, and so on. If theres one in particular you want, you can wait for that week to be popping.

---

I support this idea more.

Also they should tweak the CT/VA series since its a faceroll

All I know is if I get any of the Stormblood raids I am out. I have no interest in spending 90 minutes in Orbonne dying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

All I know is if I get any of the Stormblood raids I am out. I have no interest in spending 90 minutes in Orbonne dying.

---

Honestly, it's...really not that bad. I've gotten it quite a few times lately, and very rarely have I seen a wipe. Plenty of death at points though, sure. None have taken 90 minutes regardless or even close to that. It's a roulette. I would suggest not queueing if you're not prepared to deal with what it gives you.

They need to have a Helper type roulette and not just the one a day Mentor. That way encourage people to fill up slots when a newbie is trying trying to complete a duty via DF (not everyone on the game knows about Party Finder so they DF things when they're new). Put a flag by the roulette that shows someone new trying to complete it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

All I know is if I get any of the Stormblood raids I am out. I have no interest in spending 90 minutes in Orbonne dying.

---

What are you doing that you spend 90 minutes dying in a previous expansion's alliance raid?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

What are you doing that you spend 90 minutes dying in a previous expansion's alliance raid?

---

In his defense, its not his fault.
Orlando / The Thunder God is still a mess either because some people still screw up the Circles that require 3 people on them, or the Red Circle Mechanic where you need to bring it to a separate area and make sure it doesn't touch another red circle.
Still to this day people sometimes screw that up, and its not just new people doing it. So that raid is still a headache.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

All I know is if I get any of the Stormblood raids I am out. I have no interest in spending 90 minutes in Orbonne dying.

---

The funny thing is, now that most players are over i400 Orbonne and a majority are familiar with the mechanics even TG Cid tends not to be problematic. Both WoD and Dun Scaith were similar regular wipe fests up until the following expansion released. Post-HW and StB release only a few wipes (usual a single one to CoD and Diablos Hollow) occurred irregularly in these duties. Orbonne now would be similar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

In his defense, its not his fault.
Orlando / The Thunder God is still a mess either because some people still screw up the Circles that require 3 people on them, or the Red Circle Mechanic where you need to bring it to a separate area and make sure it doesn't touch another red circle.
Still to this day people sometimes screw that up, and its not just new people doing it. So that raid is still a headache.

---

Maybe it's different per data center, but I've been able to complete Orbonne 31 times (counting my coins) since the release of Eden Savage, without much hassle. If there's a wipe, it's usually rectified the next attempt. Either way, it's nowhere near "dying for 90 minutes" even if it's an exaggeration, given that it's used to excuse leaving a duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I've been queuing for Ridorana and Orbonne lately for Glamour. I can usually get one run of either per weeknight before it gets too late PST. It's hilarious how many people drop out immediately after loading in. Some fights are mechanics-heavy but not really too difficult if you've learned. People just can't be bothered I guess. Surprisingly I've gotten Void Ark twice in one week through roulette.

It's ultra-scumbag move when people just purposely d/c and force parties to vote-kick them between fights (to avoid the penalty), instead of leaving the party themselves. If you are one of these selfish bottom-feeders, please go jump off a bridge. Not only is it very difficult to have a raid stop fighting in order to vote-kick, or even pay attention to the vote-kick. you are also leaving them without a body for those fights until it happens. I had a Healer do this last night in Orbonne in the middle of the first boss fight, leaving our one healer to keep everyone up. Take responsibility for your decision and leave party yourself accepting the penalty.

I agree with OP's suggestion #1 to make Crystal Tower raids be their own roulette, however I also agree they should make the other Alliance Roulette (containing Ivalice and Nier raids) reward like, 100 or 150 Phantasm tomes. Entice people into this content. Right now, aside from completion and glamour, people have no reason to do them.

---

You would be suprised, i had a crystal tower raid abandon the raid because 5 DD's were missing due DC's and we wiped at Glacyas, people were taken and baffled by him having a wipe attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

In his defense, its not his fault.
Orlando / The Thunder God is still a mess either because some people still screw up the Circles that require 3 people on them, or the Red Circle Mechanic where you need to bring it to a separate area and make sure it doesn't touch another red circle.
Still to this day people sometimes screw that up, and its not just new people doing it. So that raid is still a headache.

---

Well there's actually a lot more than that,

You see a lot of deaths at Mustadio too, sometimes when he does his sniping cutscene, it returns you back to your character in a screwy position which can disorient you causing you to position improperly with the circle in the correct position which will instantly kill you. Doesn't generally happen the second time as there's no cutscene (even if cool). And in the later stages of that they can end up filling almost all of the platform except one little square with AoE.

Seraph, the part that gets everyone usually is that interlude scene where she summons all three previous bosses at once, so you have Typhoons, Clocks, Flame Line attack, and Seraph normal AoEs all going off at once. One that got me last night was the Towers, I was in the corner, only me and one other guy, he sliced his towers and both fell in my direction with no escape. Which are, of course, instakills. What are the chances he ignores the entire alliance and tries to kill you specifically?

And you have to account for new players who don't know the mechanics yet, so in the darkness portion where you're running the maze, some don't understand the stop in place timer, and one guy nearly wiped us last night because he didn't know to move out of the light when he got the Flare triangle on him. Wiped out half the alliance on the spot.

So it can get pretty brutal... fun and exciting... but brutal.

I'm bumping this thread to avoid make a separate one when the issue has been discussed long.

I'm still hoping they do something to solve it.

Now it's become the worst since the Ivalice raids completion will be required for the new relic quests, which are coming soon. I'm still missing 2 out of 3 and there's no way to make them pop. In roulette of course they'd never happen, but even if I queue for them directly they still don't. The worst thing is that if you queue long enough they might pop, but if just one person withdraws, the party returns to 0, since they probably come from roulette and they get moved to another raid? I tried to queue today for Ridorana as it's sunday, and at a good time too, after 50mins it finally popped but exactly that happened. I also don't think queueing all day would help at all, as the same thing would keep happening over again. Making a DF for it also could never work, since it's too much people needed. So those of us who never managed to complete those raids risk getting cut off the new relic completely.

Please Squeenix, put some measures in place to stop alliance raids roulette being CT roulette, cheesers are ruining the game for everybody.

I imagine there are people cheating but most of time, I see the bonus. Since raids are side quests and there are levelling potions, I'm not sure there so many cheaters.

I still haven't got Copied Factory since they tossed it in there. Shame.

I got Dun Scaith quite a bit when it was available for moogle tomes. I already miss it.

I haven't done any alliance raids in the past three days. I just can't take another LoTA/ST tower run right now. I am bored out of my freakin mind with this roulette. I'd rather queue into Copied Factory specifically for those tomes. If SE doesn't want to do anything about it, fine. The roulette is optional and there are plenty of other ways I'd rather deal with to get tomes and materia.

I still feel they need to change the alliance que to be like pvp, no matter how many ppl accept, it will start, it cant be that 23 are screwed bc one guy was afk or didnt wanna anymore... AND the highest level possible raid musst be accesable, no ilvl cheesing.

Two things I'd like to see:

1) Give a bonus of tomestones and XP if you can satisfy certain ilevel brackets when you zone in, regardless of which raid you end up getting. It is such that as long as you meet the ilevel for the latest alliance raid, you'll get the best bonus possible. Ideally it is requirement to get whatever is the current endgame token. Thus, people who are doing the raid the first time won't notice since they can't really benefit from the new tomestones until they are caught up anyway.

2) Maybe try to trim down some of the raids down to make them faster. The water tunnels in Rabanastre are boring beyond belief after you've done them a few times; make them part of the Ivalice quest or something and take them out of the raid. Copied Factory has people stand around while 2P hacks a miniboss and that's like... why. Same thing with the huge wait during Engels' transition. Can easily shave a few minutes out of this raid without touching the difficulty. Ideally raids escalate in difficulty, but IMO they should try to be about equal time, like dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tlamila

I'm bumping this thread to avoid make a separate one when the issue has been discussed long.

I'm still hoping they do something to solve it.

Now it's become the worst since the Ivalice raids completion will be required for the new relic quests, which are coming soon. I'm still missing 2 out of 3 and there's no way to make them pop. In roulette of course they'd never happen, but even if I queue for them directly they still don't. The worst thing is that if you queue long enough they might pop, but if just one person withdraws, the party returns to 0, since they probably come from roulette and they get moved to another raid? I tried to queue today for Ridorana as it's sunday, and at a good time too, after 50mins it finally popped but exactly that happened. I also don't think queueing all day would help at all, as the same thing would keep happening over again. Making a DF for it also could never work, since it's too much people needed. So those of us who never managed to complete those raids risk getting cut off the new relic completely.

Please Squeenix, put some measures in place to stop alliance raids roulette being CT roulette, cheesers are ruining the game for everybody.

---

Don't worry too much about the Ivalice Raids. The actual quest to start the relic has not been released yet. Once players are actually required to go into Ivalice to progress their relic, then you shouldn't have any trouble getting in there.

While it does make me happy that incentive will be given to Ivalice, and it should also improve the roulette, I can't help but feel SE used their once per expansion carrot (the relic) on Ivalice instead of fresh content. We will just have to wait to see what else the grind entails.

I've gotten a good mix of Mach, Ivalice, and Yorha.

My secret: I already did Crystal Tower on my previous main and didn't bother to unlock it for my current character. Works just fine for my daily roulette. I was also able to unlock and clear the other three raids with no issue.

I think it would be cool if the match-up algorithm took not just your role into account, but your average ilvl.

People who take off their gear generally want to run the lower level raids. People who keep all their gear on want to run the harder stuff.

So, have the matching algorithm split people into tiers based on their ilvl. If you qualify for the lowest level raids and don't qualify for anything higher, you get grouped up with nothing but people in the same boat. That way, people who actually bother to keep their gear equipped will be matched up with other people who do the same.

And when queuing groups, preformed parties, etc, make it use the lowest denominator. The weakest member of the party sets the tier.

I definitely wish they'd do something to divide things up more.

I am a solidly lower skilled player. I cannot do Ex trials 'in expac'; I have difficulty even with the harder ones from the previous expac. I have never set foot in a Savage, & probably never will.

I absolutely have no business in the Ivalice raids. None. I cannot do Orbonne. I die multiple times, even as DPS, even with someone on voice chat calling things for me.

I'm trying to level healers & tanks now. AR gives some decent XP - if I draw the easy ones that even I can do. If I draw Orbonne? I have to quit on the spot to avoid bringing the entire raid to a wipe. How does this system help anyone? I don't care about the 30 minute lock-out, but now there's a raid that's down a critical role & has to replace it with someone (hopefully) able to handle it.

If they were divided into some sort of tier system, this entire mess could be avoided - I'd do the ARR & HW raids that I can manage, & avoid the SB ones that I can't. No one gets stuck looking for a replacement, or carrying my corpse through the entire run. It's a win for everyone.