Please fix Alliance Raid "Roulette"

I agree that it should be fixed, but I also understand why people do it: Alliance Roulette is such a treasure trove of EXP that people want to be in and out as quickly as possible. The Ivalice raids in particular aren't really conducive to this. I don't have the math in front of me, but I think the EXP / minute for your Alliance Roulette is among the best in the game, so maybe if that was toned down, you would stop getting those people who just want as much EXP as fast as possible.

So I would reduce the EXP, and then have item level ignored when queueing. That should solve the problem nicely.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

I used to do LotA when it first came out and it was endgame and we had to do all mechanics. It still wasn't that bad. People seem to possibly die more to it now because of ignoring/not knowing mechanics.
So, even with your solution, I don't think much would change.
Also, even if people weren't to cheese removing gear, there's still the problem of the huge nmber of people who only ever unlocked the CT series as alliance raids at all.

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No, it would change. If CT was not timesaver compared to say Ridorana, there will be no point to cheese the gear level to get CT.

As for people who only unlocked CT - nowadays I see people who only unlocked Copied Factory, and to get to ally raid, they go and randomly unlock any of 50/60/70.

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

No, it would change. If CT was not timesaver compared to say Ridorana, there will be no point to cheese the gear level to get CT.

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What I'm saying is that even at ilvl, it's an easier and faster alliance raid than any other one, especially than the Ivalice ones.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

I agree that it should be fixed, but I also understand why people do it: Alliance Roulette is such a treasure trove of EXP that people want to be in and out as quickly as possible.

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Incredibly unpopular opinion here, and I'll admit even I'm skeptical to my own words... but why should we be given such a treasure trove without actual effort put into it?
I already have to suffer wipes to people queueing into LotA and just not even bothering as it is. If I'm going to wipe to something, I personally would find it less insulting to wipe to something with an actual challenge.

Besides, they're fast, sure. Even ST is faster than LotA, though I get instanced into LotA far more often than ST. But I'm seeing a lot of people here say their favorite raids are from HW, SB, and some might even enjoy SH's raids more than the others. If they actually had better chances of getting those raids, wouldn't they feel more motivated to complete them? Because I feel zero enjoyment out of beating Behemoth's pathetic ass for the nth time, whereas Orlandeau was such a cool fight that I wouldn't even mind wiping and having to teach new people the mechanics. But before anyone starts saying "Oh but I enjoy beating up Behemoth, isn't that statement hypocritical of you?", those people get to beat up Behemoth whenever they want with such a system. I haven't seen Orlandeau a single time since SH came out. I got Orbonne exactly once, people left instantly because they couldn't get past the harpies right before Mustadio. You heard it: people can't get past TRASH MOB before a boss and leave.

...or I'm just being an idealistic dumb-dumb here. If so, sue me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Honestly, I personally would advocate for either a Daily Challenge than a Daily Roulette, or simply synch everyone down to the raids to discourage that "just go in, press one button while yawning and reap all the benefits" mindset. Or just improve the overall algorythm so people with higher level content unlocked can have more variety. Because as much as we're sick of the ARR raids, we do have new players to the instances and it would be unfair to them to always see people grumpy on that content until they're level 60 and can do something else. But I'm not a game dev, so I don't know how realistic any of our collective suggestions would be.

I like the idea of Alliance Raid Roulette rotating, similar to PVP, where one day it would be the level 50 raid, one day would be level 60, one day level 70, etc. However, I would worry about not enough people queuing when it's the level 70 raids.

The other option I think may be worth looking into is for the rewards to scale, similar to Main Scenario Roulette, where you get more XP for Prae since it's longer. People who are doing Alliance Raid Roulette for XP may actually stay when Orbonne pops if they know it's going to get way more XP than doing LotA or ST.

I don't know if that is even possible, but here is how I would do it:
Let the roulette change the ilevel requirement depending on your current level and the raids you have unlocked.
For example: You unlocked every single 24 raid and now want to level your 64 Ninja. The alliance roulette would then see, that the highest possible raid for you would be Dun Scaith and therefore put the ilevel requirement of Dun Scaith for the roulette.

If the roulette was like this, the only thing people could do to cheese it, would be to not unlock any other 24 raid besides the first two.

The only way to "fix" roulettes is to force minimum ilvl for ever dungeon/raid/trial, but we all know that will cause backlash with the casuals because the casuals are going to complain about being forced to learn mechanics, and the hardcores will still complain about casuals not doing the mechanics properly/dying to mechanics...

I gotta totally agree with OP at this point, LOTA and ST are boring as hell, i've also been playing an alt and trying to get some sb raids done, but if i'm lucky ill get a pop, then a couple dps don't press commence and it's others that get penalized, then we gotta freakin wait for another damn 30 mins, if not more...

My suggestion is to make it similar to the pvp daily, but have them rotate all 3 raids from each ARR, HW and SB raids.

As OP stated, new players are not learning these, sb ones more so.
Also, i personally think echo should be removed from Orbonne Monastery aswell, its pointless.

Or if 1 or 2 dps don't press commence, just start the raid, happens everyday this, it's not just 3 other players' time they are wasting its another 20+

The problem that I have with a system similar to frontlines is that it doesn't necessarily fix the problem, is it creates just as many problems as it solves

Firstly, it puts duties that people dont want under a microscope, or at least in sets (assuming you need to be max ilvl to queue). Will some people queue for Daily Alliance Raid just because they can, sure. But it also creates a problem where in people knowing what duties are in the pool for the day will actively avoid running it, say for example it's Crystal Tower, you dont wanna run those, so you just skip it for the day and maybe do fates or something else instead.
Secondly, the reason it works for Frontlines is because PvP is just level 30 duties. If they were to implement something like this for Alliance Raid, it creates an exclusionary problem. People who are maybe picking up SAM and RDM can't run Daily Alliance because they are 50 and the daily Alliance Raid set is Mhach or Ivalice. Also to kinda throw this out there, I am sure there are a lot of people who ONLY have ARR and HW because they were free for a limited time before 5.0 came out, locking them out of the roulette 1-2 days doesn't seem fair.
Thirdly, it also creates a problem for people unlocking duties. Sure it might help you for your queue if you happen to queue up on that day (and yes I am assuming that the duties wouldn't locked for individual queue). But say you work a schedule that only allows you a few hours a few days of the week, and you just hit 60 and wanna run Mhach, but all the days you are free to play, you can't get a queue, because Crystal Tower, Ivalice, or Nier are in the pool those days.

HOPEFULLY the moogle tomes being HW duties, will help create an incentive to run those, as I do genuinely miss running those, and might be the incentive we need to start seeing more evenly distributed duties (or The Copied Factory can be added to the roulette and everyone who is 80 get thrown into that, because I remember getting Ivalice Duties a lot when queueing alliance raid back in stormblood).
Unfortunately this is a multiangled problem that no one solution can really fix, and if SQEX is to do anything about it they are gonna have to balance out the pros with the cons, because every solution has them from what's been presented and what I've thought of.

We were talking about this in the FC last night, and someone came up with a solution I rather like:

When you queue into an instance from a roulette, you get rewards appropriate the level that would appropriate for your ilvl (going by the leveling instance ilvl requirements). Should you get XP as a level cap character, you lose out on that part of the reward.

For example, if a level 80 decides to drop their ilvl to 50 just to roll through Labyrinth for the trillionth time, FFXIV would detect that they are gear like a level 50, then assign that 80 level 50 rewards for the rou and not compensate them for the XP portion of those rewards. Also, if there's someone trying to level and they have (for example) a 79 that's wearing 50 ilvl gear, they get the XP appopriate for a 50, not a 79.

So while I don't mind Labyrinth and Syrcus Tower occasionally, I just want some variety in my rous and not be almost exclusively those instances. I think shooting the rewards for whomever is doing the exploit makes the most sense as this way you don't harm the people (like me) that are walking into raid rou with gear appropriate to my level.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

The only way to "fix" roulettes is to force minimum ilvl for ever dungeon/raid/trial, but we all know that will cause backlash with the casuals because the casuals are going to complain about being forced to learn mechanics, and the hardcores will still complain about casuals not doing the mechanics properly/dying to mechanics...

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I think you need to go look at the instances in the duty finder. The only instances (that I can see) that don't have a minimum ilvl are the sub 50 instances.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

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The cut-back would have to be massive. Because some people are perfectly content with lesser rewards if that means a smooth and quick roulette where they practically don't have to learn any gimmick other than hiding behind boulders, stacking with people on tornados or running back to a designated platform. To the people forcing the roulette into LotA\ST, it's less about the rewards and more about whatever feels less cumbersome for them.


Plus, I think can be exploited. Just take someone who enjoys playing more casually or doesn't have anything better to do, tell them to go on a lv 80 job while you remain in the job you want to level. They get downgraded, but it's not like they would care much. Other than a meager amount of gil, it's not like you can't cap on tomestones easily with the other roulettes. Whereas you don't get downgraded and reap full benefits.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

The cut-back would have to be massive. Because some people are perfectly content with lesser rewards if that means a smooth and quick roulette where they practically don't have to learn any gimmick other than hiding behind boulders, stacking with people on tornados or running back to a designated platform. To the people forcing the roulette into LotA\ST, it's less about the rewards and more about whatever feels less cumbersome for them.

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It's actually funny cause in LotA people die and wipe continously.
yesterday I was so lucky to get Void Ark, and even though there were first timers, most people (including me) probably hadn't been there in forever, and yet...nobody ever died. At this point I even wonder about cumbersome.

It sure does need fixed. Says role waiting list number: #1 and been stuck at it for over 20 minutes as a dps. So that's telling me there must be zero players running any roulette alliance raids. I think maybe they should do away with 24 man raids and just make them only 8 man raids to speed up queue times.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

It sure does need fixed. Says role waiting list number: #1 and been stuck at it for over 20 minutes as a dps. So that's telling me there must be zero players running any roulette alliance raids. I think maybe they should do away with 24 man raids and just make them only 8 man raids to speed up queue times.

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That really doesnt mean anything. It takes 3 tanks, 6 healers, and 14 other DPS in the que before the system can try to match you up(and potentially fail if not everyone has the same runs unlocked). During non-peak hours it can certainly take more then 20 mins to find 3 and 6 who want to do the same thing. As for eliminating the alliance raids, my opinion would be no. They allow for a level of complication that isnt ideal/possible in single group runs. If anything, id like to see them lean into it a bit harder and make some asymmetrical raids. Something like group a and b are fighting the boss, while group c is in a separate arena doing something that affects the fight(cannons? blocking adds from arriving at the battlefield? debuffing the boss with some in zone mechanism?). Would be more work to design and balance, but that sounds like a lot of fun personally.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

The cut-back would have to be massive. Because some people are perfectly content with lesser rewards if that means a smooth and quick roulette where they practically don't have to learn any gimmick other than hiding behind boulders, stacking with people on tornados or running back to a designated platform. To the people forcing the roulette into LotA\ST, it's less about the rewards and more about whatever feels less cumbersome for them.

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I've had LOTA runs where people wipe to Behemoth and the last boss multiple times. I've had Ivalice runs go smoother than that.

A higher level raid doesn't inherently mean it's insanely difficult to execute or learn. It's incredibly boring to limit the experience to a single raid. Heaven forbid one steps out of that single raid and learns new mechanics that are fairly easy to understand. Imagine queuing into Leveling Roulette and you only got Satasha because it's easy. No matter what job you chose or what level it is, or what level the other team members are, you only get satasha every single time you queue. That's basically what is happening here.

I hope they do something about this. I've tried queuing into orbonne directly and not seen a single other person enter the queue after a 300 minute wait.

I just want sky pirate glamour ;-;

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Originally Posted by AzshFayd

I hope they do something about this. I've tried queuing into orbonne directly and not seen a single other person enter the queue after a 300 minute wait.

I just want sky pirate glamour ;-;

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Orbonne is the worst one because a lot of people (me included) don't even have it unlocked simply because they never managed to even get Ridorana to pop. :( Unless one unlocked ot all when it was endgame.
I only did Rabanstre because I did when it was current, I imagine people even a hard time popping even that nowadays so unlocking the rest of the chain is impossible for them.

Possible solution:

The system knows if you have unlocked and completed a particular raid. *IF* it also knows what class (or classes) you have done that raid on, then the devs should enable the system to override whatever silly garments you have on to cheese your ilvl and force those other ones into your list of possibles that it knows you have done on the class you queued up with.

Sadly a majority of this community prefers easy content over quality/fun content.
I think thats part of the reason so many people play like ass these days.
If you get 50's until you're 80 and then jump into expert you're going to be bad

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Originally Posted by AzshFayd

I hope they do something about this. I've tried queuing into orbonne directly and not seen a single other person enter the queue after a 300 minute wait.

I just want sky pirate glamour ;-;

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Go to a marketboard.

My retainers bring back sky pirate crap all the time.

Not to mention now there is the level 1 replica stuff.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

Go to a marketboard.

My retainers bring back sky pirate crap all the time.

Not to mention now there is the level 1 replica stuff.

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I believe she's referring to the Orbonne aiming gear modeled after Balthier, not the crafted stuff with "sky pirate" in its name.

Hoping the Devs will either address or fix this thing. All throughout SB and SHB I'm still getting nothing about LOTA (with the occasional Syrcus Tower) all day every day and it's the most tiring thing ;X

Community Rep able to comment on this I hope?

For what it's worth, Ivalice will pop up a bit more often now, since it's required to unlock the relic questline and by consequence, the new EX trial. It's probably done as a band-aid solution, similar to how moogle tomestones made Shadows of Mhach pop more often. But it probably won't last long, so I hope they'll eventually give us a proper solution for it.

I don't have a problem with the old 50 alliance raids. If anything they are quick and can be done under 25-30 mins plus you get a lot of bonus EXP.

I never had a group wipe at Behemoth if anything we kill him before the 2nd meteor and if we have good DPS, we can kill him while he's casting the first meteor. I'd rather have Labyrinth than Dun Caith because of how many times people wipe to the first both because of its death mechanic.

This is kind of odd, because in the last few days, friend and I have been doing Alliance Raids, and.....

Yesterday: Void Ark
Day before: Labyrinth
Day before that: ST
Day before that: ST
Day before that: Ridorana

My favorite one to get is Ridorana Lighthouse. I think the one I get most commonly is Syrcus Tower. LoTA has been pretty common recently, though. I wonder if more people try to manipulate the queue on weekdays over weekends.

As much as I hate getting the level 50 24mans these days, it would be such a hard thing to work around fixing.

Honestly I dont know what I hate more, doing LotA daily or sitting in Orbonne for an hour because people still cant do Thunder God lmao.

Well the MSQ roulette has shown that changes that eschew player convenience in favor of other priorities (in that case, the fantasy of new players going untarnished) could happen. Mayhaps a simialr principle could be in place for the Level 50 Raids (possibly by lowering the max iLevel sync or buffing the mechanics)?

Of course I'm not saying that something of the sort wouldn't be a herculean task for coders like other seemingly "simple" fixes, should they decide to do it, but I do ask if changing the max iLevel to be lower would help fix the issue.

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Originally Posted by BasicBlake

As much as I hate getting the level 50 24mans these days, it would be such a hard thing to work around fixing.

Honestly I dont know what I hate more, doing LotA daily or sitting in Orbonne for an hour because people still cant do Thunder God lmao.

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Can't they? The fight was nerfed into the ground, it's the only 24-man raid with the Echo, and the most common wipe mechanic (Duskblades) is way less punishing. I think the problem isn't as big as it used to be with vote abandons seemingly happening more often than actual clears.

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Originally Posted by Valvadrix

Can't they? The fight was nerfed into the ground, it's the only 24-man raid with the Echo, and the most common wipe mechanic (Duskblades) is way less punishing. I think the problem isn't as big as it used to be with vote abandons seemingly happening more often than actual clears.

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Sadly I only ever did Orbonne once, and that was the day the relic dropped.
Almost everybody was a first timer, and yet we only wiped once, as much as with the other bosses or less.
So yeah, I'd say people can do it, while on the other hand a lot of people still can't seem able to do even LotA and that'll never get better.

Easy fix to this probelm is to set alliance roulette to not look at ilvl when selecting a raid. But instead look at character level and what 24 mans they have unlocked then randomly choose one. After one is chosen ilvl sync them up or down depending on the raids ilvl requirement.

Recently had an Orbonne with 14 first-timers and after a bit of a bumpy first boss I took to explaining all mechanics as they happened throughout the rest of it. We had 1 wipe ad TG and one planned wipe (reset) at Ultima so overall it went pretty smooth. The last nerf really hit hard.

Ehh, I do Alliance roulette about 2-3 times a week lately but I used to do it every day for a few months. The reason why I couldn't be bothered with it anymore is because its 80% of the time a ARR one. Mostly labyrinth then.

Its just mind numbing boring where I just put on netflix and just press 1 2 3.

I don't have these unlocked but I got CF 2 days in a row so far.

There is >90% chance to get a lvl50 raid.

With most raid groups refusing to follow insta-wipe mechanics.

The higher level raids are more fun because people are actually obedient to mechanics and play according to how its meant to be.

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Originally Posted by Kaiten_kenbu

The higher level raids are more fun because people are actually obedient to mechanics and play according to how its meant to be.

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That part could be attributed for the raids being made with overgearign in mind compared to LOTA and ST. The difference between i50 and i130 is a whopping 80 item levels and the raids seems more designed for the former. Overkill damage also "helps" in the regards of Mhach and beyond (hello Void Death)

people also want the alliance raid roulette bonus.

and that's what it's supposed to be. a "roulette". not a boring LoA speedrun.

If ppl don't want to be possibly thrown into higher lvl raids then they should stay out of the roulette instead of manipulating it and ruining it for others.

Square could:
Rotate rewards based on the inverse of how many times a raid has being started. The less times a raid happen, the more rewards it would get. The more times a raid happen, the less rewards it gets.
Or
Having a reward cool-down after a raid happen. So you could do it again, but you get next to nothing the 2nd time around.

It's causing a bit of a different problem for me, trying to farm any glamour that isn't from the 50 raids. Q'ing up or putting up an unsynced PF doesn't work at all regardless of the job I sign up as. I just don't have time to sit around waiting for 50 minute Qs that might not ever pop. I'm extremely lucky the moogle tome event is going on, which seems to be the only time it's worth trying to get Ivalician glams. I'd love to start seeing other raids in my dailies again. :/