Jaggedy-Eared Jack and the like - Vote, please!

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

God forbid someone suggests fun content from another game made by the same company.

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It's getting ridiculous, because every week there's a new wave of "look at this thing from FFXI! I want it in FFXIV!" It's been happening non-stop since these forums came up, and on the game's alpha and beta forums. Maybe it's time to stop, and you can suggest original content for FFXIV that expands on what we have now and fits in with the game model.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

God forbid someone suggests fun content from another game made by the same company.

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This...

Jinko, Seph, and so many others get so raged when someone even mentions FFXI. They cry foul when we remind them how many subs FFXI has versus FFXIV. They piss and moan when we propose to borrow ideas from a game that was much more fun.

To all of you, tough cookies. These forums are for the general public to talk/propose about existing and new ideas. I apologize if my opinions put your panties in a bind, I really do. But I am going to continue to try to get the Devs to implement MORE ideas. These ideas dont even need to be from existing MMO's, they can be just fun random things to think up.

But when it comes down to it, things are made so much harder when opinions and ideas are thrown out there just to have the same handful of people bombard threads and give you the reasons they don't like what you are proposing.

I love the idea of having small time NM's and large scale roaming HNMs as well. Touche OP, hopefully we will see this soon enough.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

God forbid someone suggests fun content from another game made by the same company.

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the problem isnt the suggestion but how they go about it

when they attach "it was in 11 therefore i want it here" thats usualy a sign that they arent really looking at any other factor

if you put forth the idea without naming other games it would be more beneficial

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the problem isnt the suggestion but how they go about it

when they attach "it was in 11 therefore i want it here" thats usualy a sign that they arent really looking at any other factor

if you put forth the idea without naming other games it would be more beneficial

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Ah, I guess the reasons that I put into why I liked it are not important.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Ah, I guess the reasons that I put into why I liked it are not important.

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once you start comparing it to 11 or any other game you lose alot of people, thats the point

anything else is irrelevent the moment you start to mention what game you got the idea from

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Originally Posted by Yves

Ah, I guess the reasons that I put into why I liked it are not important.

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And you couldn't say that you want rarer NMs with different pop conditions why? You saw how I agreed with you about needing different pop conditions; but not timers, dumb claim competitions, and how existing NMs aren't "fun" or whatever.

Why did this topic have to be a "I loved this in FFXI, can you please put this in FFXIV?"

Are you incapable of having suggestions to this game that don't rely on FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And you couldn't say that you want rarer NMs with different pop conditions why? You saw how I agreed with you about needing different pop conditions; but not timers, dumb claim competitions, and how existing NMs aren't "fun" or whatever.

Why did this topic have to be a "I loved this in FFXI, can you please put this in FFXIV?"

Are you incapable of having suggestions to this game that don't rely on FFXI?

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thats my whole point


there are 2 ways to post things like this

1) "i want NMs with longer spawns that are rarer"

2) "I want NMs with longer spawns that are rare because its in FF11"

which do you think people will react more positively to?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And you couldn't say that you want rarer NMs with different pop conditions why? You saw how I agreed with you about needing different pop conditions; but not timers, dumb claim competitions, and how existing NMs aren't "fun" or whatever.

Why did this topic have to be a "I loved this in FFXI, can you please put this in FFXIV?"

Are you incapable of having suggestions to this game that don't rely on FFXI?

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So, after seeing 20 of these same posts, I want to ask you this:

What is wrong, with ideas coming from Final Fantasy XI to Final Fantasy XIV?

Don't give me the childish response of, go play Final Fantasy XI. It was a great game, and its successor sucks. Would it not make perfect sense to utilize ideas from a prior title to enhance a failing game?

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

God forbid someone suggests fun content from another game made by the same company.

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Except many people didn't consider it fun.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It's getting ridiculous, because every week there's a new wave of "look at this thing from FFXI! I want it in FFXIV!" It's been happening non-stop since these forums came up, and on the game's alpha and beta forums. Maybe it's time to stop, and you can suggest original content for FFXIV that expands on what we have now and fits in with the game model.

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They need to clone you and populate these forms with your clones >.>

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

Jinko, Seph, and so many others get so raged when someone even mentions FFXI. They cry foul when we remind them how many subs FFXI has versus FFXIV. They piss and moan when we propose to borrow ideas from a game that was much more fun.

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Don't pretend to know what I think, you have no F'ing clue :D

I liked parts of FF11 just like everyone else, open world HNM's was not one of them. (I don't' mean I am opoosed to open world bosses, just not the way 11 did them)

I dunno if you have seen my other threads asking for LFP icon (its coming in 1.22) and Level sync well they were idea's from 11, I'm not opposed to taking small things from 11 but taking something as annoying and time sinky and plunking it into a game which is heavily tuned to casuals is not a good idea.

Just out of curiosity what other MMO experience besides FF11 do you have ? [and I'd like an honest answer if you don't mind]

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Except many people didn't consider it fun.

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More people liked it than disliked it.

325,000 still do.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

So, after seeing 20 of these same posts, I want to ask you this:

What is wrong, with ideas coming from Final Fantasy XI to Final Fantasy XIV?

Don't give me the childish response of, go play Final Fantasy XI. It was a great game, and its successor sucks. Would it not make perfect sense to utilize ideas from a prior title to enhance a failing game?

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Because most of these suggestions that are coming from FFXI are completely against the direction that FFXIV wants to take, and there is no justification behind some of these ideas aside from "it was in FFXI."

If there was more thought put behind them and if they were modified to fit with how FFXIV is meant to be, then I have no problems with it. I'm not too much of a s**tpickle to say no to NMs or open world content, but I am against open world content that has obtuse respawn timers and conditions, and that promotes heavy competition. I want them to add more mid level and higher level NMs for solo players and for flavor in the world. I don't want them to add more Noble Mold/Voluptuous Vilma/Fafnir/Cerberus/Tiamat s**t that left more people frustrated than happy.

NM camping in FFXI involved no skills at playing the game. Only the following:

1- Absurd amount of free time.
2- Willing to spend that free time doing nothing, just waiting, that's it.
3- A feeling of accomplishment because once you got that claim, all your "effort" was rewarded. Go back to number one and two for the definition of "effort".
4- Bots, good latency, luck.

I played FFXI for three years, I accomplished everything that was available in the game from 2006 ~ 2009 except for Relic weapons, but I was just starting college and thankfully had a lot of time to burn, even at that time FFXI was a renmant of old school mechanics, a generation that sailed when WoW was launched. MMO's are more mainstream now, no longer for niche groups, that is fact.

I don't see a request for fun, engaging NM fights, I'm seeing a request for a pointless timesink that requieres no skill and lots of free time.

I'm sorry to rehash this line: please, please, please, let FFXI go. It was awesome, but please, let it go.

Roaming nm design is fine for the most part, a few things I'd change:

1.) Increase pop timers to maybe 30-45 minutes.
2.) Stop including them in every other quest; I prefer named mobs that pop only if they're part of the quest as opposed to half the pre-reqs in the game requiring you to kill the same roaming nm's.
3.) Vary up the pop conditions so we have more like Coeurl. Keep the current roaming nm's as is, but for future nm's this would be nice.

On a side note, can we just have one "FFXI Ideas We'd Like to See Transitioned" thread so we don't have 12 new ones like this pop up every week?

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

More people liked it than disliked it.

325,000 still do.

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Oh right, WoW has hardly any world bosses any more and how many play that 10 million was it ?, we can both pull numbers out of our asses.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Except many people didn't consider it fun.

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Then dont do it.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Then dont do it.

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Then .. Go play FF11.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Then dont do it.

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Then don't play FFXIV. See, I can do this too.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

God forbid someone suggests fun content from another game made by the same company.

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OP said "vote please" in the thread title. That was my vote.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

And you couldn't say that you want rarer NMs with different pop conditions why? You saw how I agreed with you about needing different pop conditions; but not timers, dumb claim competitions, and how existing NMs aren't "fun" or whatever.

Why did this topic have to be a "I loved this in FFXI, can you please put this in FFXIV?"

Are you incapable of having suggestions to this game that don't rely on FFXI?

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You're right - referencing an actual past experience is a bad idea. It would be best just to say "I like this." I think Ben Franklin should've refrained from using his experiences with the French political system. Or that Lee Iacocca shouldn't have brought his experiences from Toyota to the US auto industry.

1. This is what I liked
2. This is where I experienced said events
3. This is what I specifically liked about them

Kind of hard to mention #3 without an experience.

You're being obstinate by falling back to the argument that a point of reference defaults an idea to a bad one automatically, despite the mechanics. Logically, that's just being problematic without justification. If you lack the comprehension to actually divulge the concept from the statement without a knee-jerk reaction you are simply being an asswipe.

Are you serious?

Either way, close the fucking thread - as with most things on these useless forums it devolves into grabassery and idiocy with people vehemently trying to derail anything they don't like.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Then .. Go play FF11.

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So..Because I want something in This game I have to leave go another one? No thanks. I have rights to suggestions just as much as you have to disagreeing with them. seeing as this is a public forum.

Jinko, wolfie, sephrick : dont suggest content because who does that >_>. NO you arent allowed to say you liked this type of content. no no no.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

So..Because I want something in This game I have to leave go another one? No thanks. I have rights to suggestions just as much as you have to disagreeing with them. seeing as this is a public forum.

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So, you have a right to tell someone not play FFXIV when you ask for something he doesn't like, but he doesn't have the right to tell you to go play another game when he doesn't like your suggestion?

i didnt say dont play ffxiv i said dont camp the nms if he doesnt like it. learn to read bro.

That's what it amounts to. You're telling them to not play the game when you say "so don't do X."

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

That's what it amounts to. You're telling them to not play the game when you say "so don't do X."

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No i never say dont play the game, i said

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Then dont do it.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Jinko, wolfie, sephrick : dont suggest content because who does that >_>. NO you arent allowed to say you liked this type of content. no no no.

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That's clearly not what we are saying.

Say what you like .. just know I will say what I want also :D

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Originally Posted by Jinko

That's clearly not what we are saying.

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Well how come every time i see someone suggesting content. I see you three parading through the thread saying no no no?

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Well how come every time i see someone suggesting content. I see you three parading through the thread saying no no no?

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Like what, what awesome and "unique" idea's have I said no no no to.

The NM spawn system in this game is superior to what it was in XI.

I played XI. I loved XI when I had tons of free time to kill on a daily basis. I am not playing XI anymore. I am playing XIV. Do not make XIV into an XI clone.

It's the little things like this that make this game so much more accessible and fun. Claiming that people don't have to camp something if they don't want to is absurd: If you want the item from an NM you will camp it, so forcing a system down everyone's throats when the current system is perfectly valid just seems silly.

With the update there's some decent competition at NM's now, so I've actually gotten my fix of outclaiming people. It's fun, but only because it's not an hour between pops minimum while you kill 12.5 minute respawn placeholders to then compete with someone else for the NM and then vs RNG for the drop. The current system makes it much friendlier.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

No i never say dont play the game, i said

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If you don't see how that's not the same as telling someone not to play, then I've lost all hope in these forums.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If you don't see how that's not the same as telling someone not to play, then I've lost all hope in these forums.

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Ive lost hope of you reading and comprehending.

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Originally Posted by Phobos

The NM spawn system in this game is superior to what it was in XI.

I played XI. I loved XI when I had tons of free time to kill on a daily basis. I am not playing XI anymore. I am playing XIV. Do not make XIV into an XI clone.

It's the little things like this that make this game so much more accessible and fun. Claiming that people don't have to camp something if they don't want to is absurd: If you want the item from an NM you will camp it, so forcing a system down everyone's throats when the current system is perfectly valid just seems silly.

With the update there's some decent competition at NM's now, so I've actually gotten my fix of outclaiming people. It's fun, but only because it's not an hour between pops minimum while you kill 12.5 minute respawn placeholders to then compete with someone else for the NM and then vs RNG for the drop. The current system makes it much friendlier.

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This is what I like, and if they can keep the 1-5 minute respawns, they can add some other pop conditions (as long as they're not totally f'ed up like Leshy/Vilma/whatever). There is enough competition now to make them interesting from that aspect, but nowhere near the teeth-grinding frustration that it was to camp NMs in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

That's what it amounts to. You're telling them to not play the game when you say "so don't do X."

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Telling someone to not eat cheeseburgers because they don't like lettuce on it is what you are doing. It is very easy to play a game and not participate in one aspect of it that you do not like, IE a burger with no lettuce.

As for anyone who says something along the lines of "Don't mention FFXI" or "Come up with an original idea"... open your damn eyes and realize there are no original ideas in this world anymore, only different ways to combine them. Use the concepts from FFXI and find a way to combine them with the concepts from Aion, WoW, and Rift.

WoW and Rift have NMs that look like normal monsters but with special names that popped any where between every 1 and 24 hours. Is the OP now validated because other games have the same basic idea he is proposing or are you still adamantly against it because FFXI did it also? FFXIV is going to have a weapon's dps displayed in the tooltip and pretty sure WoW does that too; would the idea be any less valid if FFXI had the same feature?

Making NMs how they were in ff11 with the horrible drop rates and spawn times is a bad idea.

Frankly I'm getting really tired of these long-winded threads asking to make the game less fun/more like FFXI.

I'm all for adding changes to NMs, but how about some NEW ideas that are FUN? Such as, having players gather rare items from mobs and gathering points around the world and then using them to "summon" NMs. This way there's no waiting around for a mob to "spawn" (which is so game-y and immersion breaking), it creates an interesting new items to sell and trade to improve the player economy, and it makes hunting NMs more complex and interesting, which is what I think the OP really wanted, even if they didn't realize it.

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Originally Posted by Phobos

The NM spawn system in this game is superior to what it was in XI.

I played XI. I loved XI when I had tons of free time to kill on a daily basis. I am not playing XI anymore. I am playing XIV. Do not make XIV into an XI clone.

It's the little things like this that make this game so much more accessible and fun. Claiming that people don't have to camp something if they don't want to is absurd: If you want the item from an NM you will camp it, so forcing a system down everyone's throats when the current system is perfectly valid just seems silly.

With the update there's some decent competition at NM's now, so I've actually gotten my fix of outclaiming people. It's fun, but only because it's not an hour between pops minimum while you kill 12.5 minute respawn placeholders to then compete with someone else for the NM and then vs RNG for the drop. The current system makes it much friendlier.

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The goal of the thread was to bring this mechanic back while making it totally optional - i.e. trophies or useless accomplishment gear. Thus making it ENTIRELY AN OPTIONAL ASPECT OF THE GAME. It was in the OP, I restated this numerous times thereafter.

FFS do people just chime in with opinions before reading the entirety of the initial message?

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Originally Posted by Vaen

Making NMs how they were in ff11 with the horrible drop rates and spawn times is a bad idea.

Frankly I'm getting really tired of these long-winded threads asking to make the game less fun.

I'm all for adding changes to NMs, but how about some NEW ideas that are FUN? Such as, having players gather rare items from mobs and gathering points around the world and then using them to "summon" NMs. This way there's no waiting around for a mob to "spawn" (which is so game-y and immersion breaking), it creates an interesting new items to sell and trade to improve the player economy, and it makes hunting NMs more complex and interesting, which is what I think the OP really wanted, even if they didn't realize it.

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No, the long-winded thread was to provide an explanation of what I liked and why so responses like yours wouldn't pop up and we could keep the conversation fairly on-topic.

1. I enjoyed the experience for a handful of reasons
2. I understand that others did not
3. Therefore, such content, which was enjoyed by some and not others, should be optional
4. Rewards could be along the lines of trophies or just useless gear relevant to the NM killed
5. Currently, this game does not have this dynamic so it would be neat if it could be added

In response to your suggestion if that is what makes the idea enjoyable for you then I am all for it! Really pulling together the classes in such a way is creative. Personally, I really did like the randomness and chance feeling that camping had so I still favor it. But, to each their own ^^

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Telling someone to not eat cheeseburgers because they don't like lettuce on it is what you are doing. It is very easy to play a game and not participate in one aspect of it that you do not like, IE a burger with no lettuce.

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I wish people would stop trying to come up with these analogies, because they don't fit. This game is not a cheeseburger. When you get a cheeseburger, you can order it without lettuce, and you can easily pick out the lettuce without it affecting the rest of the contents. Getting that lettuce on your burger does not cause the restaurant workers to devote less time on the rest of the ingredients in the burger. A cheeseburger is something that you can easily toss aside, send back to have it redone, or lose without any serious regret of your monetary or time investment. That is not possible with MMOs.

When there's an item that I want, I would like a fair chance to get it and to be able to have something to show for my efforts. I want the same for my peers. And I want the developers to not waste time creating content for a vocal minority, because creating any content in this game means that resources must be diverted from one area to another and because it can go against the overall vision of the project.

Lower lvl NMs would be cool (10-25)
I'm fine with the 5 min respawn.

I want NM's with all sorts of spawn conditions all over the place. Short, long, like clockwork, completely random, pop items, weather or whatever way the devs can think up. Make em low, mid, high, super high levels. Have them drop equipment, materials, quest items, tokens...

If I don't like a certain NM I wont camp it, no one is making me. If I can't figure out the pop conditions then I will move on to something else or get my LS to help me. I certainly don't want them to not include something in the game just because I wouldn't do it...

It is insane to think that the devs should develop only the content interesting to a particular player or type of player. I hate PVP with a burning passion, but you don't hear me telling SE to cut it or I will take my ball and go home.

I still want all the things...

Thank you, OP. I remember I was heartbroken when I came across my first NM in XIV and was told that they were always up. It's not even relevant that it's an idea from XI. Referencing XI just gives everyone a better idea of what you're talking about. The fact is that small NMs (not even talking about longer spawn ones since they're so controversial) greatly enhanced that game's open world and could do the same for this one. It doesn't even require stepping on toes. Everyone can get what they want here.