Why do you want an Auction House? (discussion)[dev1019]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Epo

You just said yourself you need visual identification to determine, and you need to be able to read the bazaar. Did you know... in FFXI, you need to read the prices of items? Did you know, that requires visual confirmation? Did you knows bots CAN do visual confirmation?! NOWAI.

And before you say that the bots just raised the amount of what they were trying to buy by xxx amount of Gil with the FFXI AH, no one said they had to use that out-dated AH either.

If you play just about any MMO, there AH is much more optimized than FFXI's, and such a bot would not work for that.

Did you also know that the majority of RMT-ers don't BOT around ? They hack into other people's accounts, and take their gil, or bot for farming, aka grinding the items they want then sell. RMT-ers very rarely buy then resell, as they're usually the ones selling at the lowest price.
How about you get your facts straight, buddeh? x)

---

You are incorrect in so many ways. I'm not responding anymore after this response. You get to reply next with another witty retort and pat your e-back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chory

With buying/selling directly form item search menu, improved categorization (followed by 2% tax rate for all items), HQ items search option, and no market area crashes it would be similar to AH. At the moment it is far from the same. Actually only the search option makes MW look a bit like AH. All the rest is COMPLETELY different. Much worse to be clear.

---

Oh, i completely agree with everything you said.

I should have been more clear. I think it still needs a vast amount of improvement.
My only point is that the current system can be a suitable replacement for an AH.

And if your current stance is, in fact, that the AH is the better way to go then I'm inclined to agree with that as well.

=)

Heres how AH would help FFXIV.

It would help server people wouldn't be afking all damn day and night. It would also make selling items from everywhere easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taru_TwoPointO

You are incorrect in so many ways.

---

Honestly dude. I've never heard bout AH bots. IF RMTs speculate they do it on rare, very expensive items - dont really need bots for that. When it comes to more common items (but still quite expensive) they rather farm a lot and sell stuff for lower price cuz of competition (many suppliers) and that usually results in huge deflation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chory

Honestly dude. I've never heard bout AH bots. IF RMTs speculate they do it on rare, very expensive items - dont really need bots for that. When it comes to more common items (but still quite expensive) they rather farm a lot and sell stuff for lower price cuz of competition (many suppliers) and that usually results in huge deflation.

---

You didn't play FFXI much then. They tended to stand in Lower Jeuno right next to where they could easily target the far right AH node and the Delivery NPC at the same time. IF you did a search for their names on FFXIAH.com you'd see tons of buys from them for items like Leaping Boots and Utsusemi as low as they could then a month down the line selling them for 10-50x more then they bought them, trying to wipe the buy history out in game by flooding it with sells to themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

You didn't play FFXI much then. They tended to stand in Lower Jeuno right next to where they could easily target the far right AH node and the Delivery NPC at the same time. IF you did a search for their names on FFXIAH.com you'd see tons of buys from them for items like Leaping Boots and Utsusemi as low as they could then a month down the line selling them for 10-50x more then they bought them, trying to wipe the buy history out in game by flooding it with sells to themselves.

---

If that's the case, it's simply a flaw of FFXI's AH. Look at any other game's AH, which is what FFXIV would be expected to have as FFXI is much out-dated, and as much I love that over market-wards, it is still by far the worst AH I've seen in a game to date.

When the game first came out I really wanted a AH (like FFXI). But now that the wards are a little more stable and have some search functions, I am leaning towards the wards more now.

Likes:

1) Retainers can stay up selling your items and not return them to you after a few days because nothing sold. Again this varies with up time in the wards, but I have had retainers on as long as two weeks with no crashes.

2) You can model your wares on retainers. I have seen some neat looking gear for sale that I may have ignored until I some a retainer similar to my character wearing it.

3) With multiple retainers you can focus on the types of items being sold or have up for repairs.

Dislikes:

1) The ward crashes. Granted it has been less lately.

2) The search feature. It's not complete and I know that. SE has plans for improvement and I am patiently waiting for them.

3) The tax on certain floors for selling specific items. The floors should all be the same tax rate until we can get more retainers. but most of us i think sell a variety of items at once, not just one kind.

Would like to see:

1) A global search of all cities. But limit purchase to just the city you are in. Another idea is you can pay a "delivery fee" to purchase from a city you are not currently in.

2) Use of the Silver & Golden Bazaars as an actual AH of some sorts. This may be used for either placing or purchasing special type items only. Not the everyday items we find in the wards. Maybe Beastmen type currency would be used instead of gil. All these new coins we find on special leves but have no use for yet.

3) Sold item alert sent to chat log or a message / mailbox.

4) An increase in the amount of items to sell, preferably the same limit as you can carry (like in FFXI).

5) No slot penalty for reward when placing and item in Bazaar or Retainer for repair. At this time we are limited to only 5 repairs and unless you have all your crafts high enough to fix all your gears, this can be unnecessarily restrictive.

So personally, I don't think we have to push for a AH like FFXI had, instead some modifications to the wards and other ideas will make it more unique.

only thing i'm afraid of is the re-listing fees since items sell so slow

I don't want an AH

The current Market Ward system does everything an AH needs to do while avoiding a lot of the negative aspects of AH.

AH is not necessary nor useful at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

I don't want an AH

The current Market Ward system does everything an AH needs to do while avoiding a lot of the negative aspects of AH.

AH is not necessary nor useful at this point.

---

Unless it can provide functionality that doesn't or won't ever exist in the market wards. As long as we are talking about an auction house that is more like a garage sale (you pay the listed price, you get the item) then I agree totally. But there are some types of auctions (like actual auctions with actual bidding and no set price limit) that might potentially have a place if done right. Especially for rarer items.

I don't want an Auction House. I am perfectly happy with the Market Wards.

Because I want to be able to sell my things in an organized manner without loading screens. I want to buy thing from just opening a screen wbhile running through town.

Wards at their current state seem to work OK. But an AH does offer some things the wards can not, one thing I enjoyed about the AH system in ff11 was that I could see the history of items, being able to see who sold that HQ item, or what that item was sold at the last 15 times. AH would also save a lot of time in regards to traveling to the wards to pick up your item or to sell an item, this could be very time consuming if you are in the market for buying or selling multiple items. Personally I think the game could do both systems, markets could be used for the 3 current towns, and once a 4rth neutral town is added, that town could use the AH system, or something along those lines.

Ward is ok... but it needs improving. FFXI didn't have universal AH you had to travel to different cities to get the cheapest item. But when AH came out in FFXI it was revolutionary at the time. Press forward 8 years. There are ton of MMO with good AH system. IF SE wants to push forward with WARD they should improve couple things.

1) Stop making it crashing --;
2) Put an actual search function where you can search item with "keywords" instead of looking up "index"
3) Put price history and make search function list all the current item price from all 3 cities
4) Retainer should be able to sell more than 10 items

Obvious Troll is Obvious:

Give me a market system as broad and deep as EVE Online! I want my spreadsheets!

Forget having an AH or MW, we need market windows (read: counters) at every aetherite node! This way, you never have to go far to find one. Also, we would need the ability to buy from any other node's market (as long as they are within range)!

Oh, and an escrow system!

I'll have to stop fleecing people if there's an AH oh no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

I enjoyed the AH system in ff11, I could see the history of items, being able to see what an item was sold at the last 15 times. AH would also save a lot of time in regards to traveling to the wards to pick up your item or to sell an item, this could be very time consuming if you are in the market for buying or selling multiple items.

---

The items stated above are reasons that FF11 economy didn't do well.

1. Item price history is a tool for price fixers and inflation. Price history is a great way to price fix, and prices don't flow naturally with the demand when every average consumer can instantly review past prices (real or faked).

2. If an AH is implemented it should be individual to that region. Such that, items placed on sale in one city should not be able to be purchased in all other areas of the game. This will add market complexity to the game -import/export, area specific materials- that people will enjoy, and keep the economy flowing.

SE can even use import export tariffs on goods to help fight inflation later in the game life.

if people really have experience with AH from another MMO, they'll know how good it is and the thread will end

the AH promotes socializing. a central large building that everyone can hang around in for market transactions creates a sense of community and brings life to an mmo. the AH is a natural magnet for players to hang around at. these hubs do one extremely important service....they create PRICE DISCOVERY in the markets. this allows for items to be quickly brought under control in terms of pricing via competition. players hang around at these hubs. they shout, promote, beg, and attempt at communicating their needs while playing the markets. having your own personal bazaar on your toon like in ffxi AND the AH system is the best way at promoting commerce.

right now all we have is a dead end that instances you into a market ward with nothing but lifeless npc mules. your job is to locate a goofy red star at the mule that has your item. the point of even implementing a search feature in the market ward system is a signal itself that the concept has failed because search function is an attempt at mimicking an AH system. how in the world do some of you people find this more fun than to be engrossed in a bustling city's auction hous block? i think the vast majority of the players against change need to play other mmo's to get an idea of what makes a good game.

Epo. There are nothing particular to an AH that can not be implemented in the current Market Ward. AH in other games are not automatically global. Yes there is a interaction process which some ppl pefer ( running from ward to ward, retainer to retainer) and others do not prefer it (like yourself). However there is an added defense against RMT since they can not BOT the Market Ward for buying/selling items. The current RMT have to bot craft and farm but manual walk from ward to ward and retainer to retainer ( just like you). Secondly the selling of your items in specific wards is not a MUST do; the difference is 2% and 5%. Unless you are selling a lot of stuff it doesn't make that much a difference if you sell all your items in one ward for 5%. Again they will not implement a new system any time soon. They put a lot of work into this current market ward system.

why do you do that? Notice your adjective are not definitive in description of the different system, but biased to your preference. Then your statements are over arching in your assessment to envelope the opposition into a singular disposition.

I like the market wards, always wanted my own shop with xi. I just have concerns on the stability of them and if this game gets popular how busy the wards are going to be. Seems like we really have to rely on the search function and hope they upgrade the search feature even more. Maybe possible add a tailor in the game to fetch armor for a fee and allow us to try it on first. I really dislike having buyers remorse

I want both a market wards and an AH. I like the attempt that SE made by giving retainers their own zone to reside in as not to clutter or lag gameplay areas. But the implementation once again fell flat on it's face. They have made good strides to make that system more functional, however like others have said a more traditional AH is better organized.

IF the retainer system only allowed items appropriate for that ward to be sold on said retainer window shopping would be much easier. At launch it was like going to a rundown thrift shop where everything was 1 heap of trash. Not the department store I had envisioned.

As far as the retainer system giving the advantage to the seller, to allow them to sell at a higher price instead of being undercut... well....... It just takes more leg work on the end user to find the best price, We can search for an item, and I know, I myself will seek out each retainer with that star next to them and buy the lowest price... guess what you just got undercut. Havinging it in a spread sheet format just makes it easier on the buyer, it's more functional.

What I'd like to see is to have both systems function side by side.
1 for materials only
1 for finished items only.

And +1 to the poster who said there should be a NPC that allows you to search the wards @ camps. Your retainer then should deliver those items to you.

please put up an auction house like FF11, just stick on a window and
do all the buy sell things, no need go through different maket ward click
on the correct idiot retainer just for buying one thing !
Existing market ward system is redundancy & inefficiency.

Again, the small benefits you would gain from an AH like FFXI at this point do not outweigh the negatives and abuse that would come with it. The MW are now easy to search and easy to navigate, so there just isn't a reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaedan

Again, the small benefits you would gain from an AH like FFXI at this point do not outweigh the negatives and abuse that would come with it. The MW are now easy to search and easy to navigate, so there just isn't a reason.

---

Only if you're in Ul'Dah. If you're anywhere else the wards are bare as hell, if they have an AH and link all cities together that's more than enough of a reason to add one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

I don't.

The Marketward does everything a traditonal auction house does without having the long winded auction system. "Oh I have to wait 7 days to see if I won." when most players just put the lowest bid to start as the least they'd accept its not really an auction its as "How much extra do you want to give me for an item you really want."

---

This post is almost as dumb as the other kid who was talking about how auto attack is bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Argh

the AH promotes socializing. a central large building that everyone can hang around in for market transactions creates a sense of community and brings life to an mmo. the AH is a natural magnet for players to hang around at. these hubs do one extremely important service....they create PRICE DISCOVERY in the markets. this allows for items to be quickly brought under control in terms of pricing via competition. players hang around at these hubs. they shout, promote, beg, and attempt at communicating their needs while playing the markets. having your own personal bazaar on your toon like in ffxi AND the AH system is the best way at promoting commerce.

right now all we have is a dead end that instances you into a market ward with nothing but lifeless npc mules. your job is to locate a goofy red star at the mule that has your item. the point of even implementing a search feature in the market ward system is a signal itself that the concept has failed because search function is an attempt at mimicking an AH system. how in the world do some of you people find this more fun than to be engrossed in a bustling city's auction hous block? i think the vast majority of the players against change need to play other mmo's to get an idea of what makes a good game.

---

Yep, this pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

Market Ward is better,

Market Ward is pretty much the same thing without Price History, that means, whn u put up an item, u set the price depending on your diffculty in obtaining the item. Sure u can chk what other people are selling it but, jus like you, they are following someone else's price- other mayb not obtained the item the same way u did(craft, reward, drop, etc), so the price for it varies between players, overall it prevents undercutters who eventually crush economy and cause inflation/deflation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ESAR

Why do "you" want an auction house?
Why would it help?
What would it make easier?

---

1. Because Ive used them and they are what should be considered "Normal"

2. Beats the hell out of running back and forth from one floor to the next on the market, searching for a specific retainer. Just to have to do it a dozen more times to collect all the ingredients you are seeking for a single craft. All the while having to go back and re-check the list because you forgot who had the lowest prices...and what floor he was on.

3. See above. Seriously, I can spend an hour gathering mats for a small handful of synths. Too tedious, why cant I just buy it right then and there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

You didn't play FFXI much then. They tended to stand in Lower Jeuno right next to where they could easily target the far right AH node and the Delivery NPC at the same time.

---

Ive played FFXI for 5 years and I didnt notice anything you described. Guess it was server specific activity.
BTW: if utsusemi prices go 10 times up, it kinda sucks for buyers, but on the other hand - it is crafters paradise. If Id notice Chinese fellows bots buying any quantity of utsusemi, I wouldnt stop crafting it. Guess your server was lacking crafters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Epo

If that's the case, it's simply a flaw of FFXI's AH. Look at any other game's AH, which is what FFXIV would be expected to have as FFXI is much out-dated, and as much I love that over market-wards, it is still by far the worst AH I've seen in a game to date.

---

And still it is way better than Market Wards in FFXIV. Thats how terrible MW is.

I don't want an auction house. The only thing the wards could use at the moment is an item price history. Market wards in their current implementation pose only the most minor of inconvenience. To scrap them now for a system only marginally better is a waste of the Devs' time that could be put to better use smoothing out other areas of the game.

Even if I search for the item I want in the specified ward I find myself having to check all wards anyway as people can still sell items where they wish, and as stated above the lack of item price history makes me wonder if I am getting ripped off when purchasing an item.
If they improved the MW system it would be a good replacement for an AH but at the moment an AH seems significantly better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haraldsson

Item price history is a tool for price fixers and inflation.

---

Oh please, gimmie a break. Item price is as high as much youre willing to pay for it. You can do same things in MW. If there is no supply at the moment you can put it on sale for price 2-3 times higher than its usual price and potential buyer will pay that much now even knowing its overpriced. Next person selling this item will set price close to yours and you got inflation. If there are 10 sellers price will probably drop a bit. Its a free market. Demand > Supply - prices go up, Supply > Demand - priced go down. And you can always buy cheap ones and put it on sale for your price. Dont need AH for price speculating.

Quote:

---

If an AH is implemented it should be individual to that region.

---

Yeah, and Ul'dah MW will handle 95% of worlds supply.

@ Zhou

The item search lists the lowest priced item in all wards. You should never have to search wards manually for a lower price on the item.

I guess best option is to implement AH but leave MW as well. Give it 1 month and we will see which option players prefer. And I dont know a reason why both AH and MW cant exist simultaneously. Im pretty sure tho, if there was AH and MW - one MW row would be enough to hold all the retainers.

About 7 days (*) limit in AH against no time limit on retainers... what kind of argument is that? The question is if you want AH, not if you want AH with time limit.
If you ask me if I want FFXI AH in FFXIV - I dont! Well, even that would be better than Market Wards but it is definitely not what I expect from next generation MMO. I expect a tool much much better than AH in FFXI. MW in FFXIV is much much worse so far.

(*) Im pretty sure in FFXI its 9 days but thats not the point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myri

The item search lists the lowest priced item in all wards.

---

Yeah but still you have to run there. And sometimes you only check price assuming you can buy it on your current floor, or check the price and location but not the retainers name. Either way gotta check all the retainers on the floor or just go back to item search menu and search again. Happens to me all the time. Its far from AHs practicality.

RMT didn't bot the AH other players did.

Also there's nothing stopping you from doing that in this system I've used the market wards and bought up all those to cheap under 12 items to up the price on larger stacks.

the market wards are an ok idea but have too many flaws, the fact that the engine cant even show all retainers at a time kinda says it all. its a useless resource drain the way it currently is. Im sure there is a way or there are ways to further improve it but i dunno why putting more and more effort into that system.

The majority id say doesnt like it. Whoever says thats not true ... well, the majority left so they wont post in the forums.

For me honestly idc anymore since i decided to craft everything myself since i hate to spend my time searching 3 cities for something that might not even be there. But i think it still is a big issue and reason enough for a lot of people not to play it. Its like the HNM hunting of ffxi. A few liked to spend 80% of their RL "camping" a mob that possibly drops something that 30 ppl lot on... but i dont think the majority did. But you didnt have to, since it was only an optional way of playing the game. The AH is essential. So unless you dedicate your time crafting, the system atm sux.
The communication with the retainer is so slow still and its clunky, not comfortable. I npc stuff when im full. i dont even bother looking at the wards. And haveing a closer look at the wards... theres not much you can buy. ANYTHING i needed so far wasnt there ever. So what is the point...

And the wards dont prevent any RMT nor do they prevent ppl from using other ppl to gain more money. You can still, as some already stated, buy cheap stuff and sell for higher. Thats what ppl and rmt do, the wards dont protect anyone from that. Its called economy. And most ppl more involved in ffxiv already using online portals to look at prizes and history.
(at least what ppl put online) and that is also a way to manipulate.
Theres just no point trying to control that system. People will find their way and rmt will always be there. Well its their job. Thats what they're good at. So in the end there might even be more room for rmt then for honest/fun/game orientated players. Since they dont wanna go through all this crap, they just wanna play.

But atm not many ppl useing that system anyways, since the majority is looking at what the game will turn into before investing much more time. So its hard to say if it will be used a lot as soon as many ppl will play it. That might change a lot, But i dont wanna imagine 3-4 times as many retainer npcs in the wards either. There has to be another way then the current wards are. Each player can have 2 Retainers in the wards atm (if im not mistaken). How is THAT ever supposed to work? These tiny zones. So full of pixles? Its kind of a dead end to me.

Because there are fundamental flaws in the Market Ward system (such as trying to sell multiple categories of items on a single retainer, or limits on how many retainers are in a ward) that cannot be fixed without turning it into an Auction House.