Please reconsider removing job restrictions on glamour armor

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Originally Posted by Aurida

No one wants the role restrictions on equippable armor removed lmao. That would be awful. Of course I don't want to kneecap myself by putting the level 60 CUL set on my dragoon and going into combat. Why would anyone ever do that?

But you SHOULD be able to glamour it, which is what this topic is about.

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The tricky question is, is it even possible to do this without them completely redoing how glamor works in the game? It might require a brand new system to even do this and not remove role restrictions from the gear itself.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

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I can play the repost game too.

https://i.imgur.com/6M07HE0.png

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

They should then let it work like the "try it" system, where you can mix and match anything. Adding something to lock artifact would be a lot easier, since there aren't that much of them to begin with.

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The try is system is its own separate thing, as all it does is load a separate model of your character and doesn't have to interact with the internals of the equip system as all it does it show previews.
Which again falls into my 2nd point - in order to change the glamour system as its designed, they would need to essentially uplift and re-design their entire equip protocols, functions, and large swaths of coding to change it to something else. Not an impossible task, but something that would need to take immense amounts of time and care to make sure they don't cause the game to break down, crippling bugs to rear their end, or etc. And the more the current equip system is entrenched into the foundation of their code, the harder the task will be.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

I doubt that. That would be lazy sloppy work. But since rollable is separate form equip-able, and the auto equip feature looks at stats, it would not be the end of the world if they made past expac gear "all classes"

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You'd be surprised how many shortcuts developers in the industry as a whole take that bite them later. (read: issues regarding inventory since the beginning of 2.0)
All it takes is a bit of code analysis & breakdown to see a lot of landmines that could rear their heads at any moment.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

I can play the repost game too.

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To be fair, an unarmored paladin is still a paladin, not a white mage. The example of reusing certain designs for other jobs might be more applicable to your point, but even then, they're still different gears.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

The try is system is its own separate thing, as all it does is load a separate model of your character and doesn't have to interact with the internals of the equip system as all it does it show previews.
Which again falls into my 2nd point - in order to change the glamour system as its designed, they would need to essentially uplift and re-design their entire equip protocols, functions, and large swaths of coding to change it to something else. Not an impossible task, but something that would need to take immense amounts of time and care to make sure they don't cause the game to break down, crippling bugs to rear their end, or etc. And the more the current equip system is entrenched into the foundation of their code, the harder the task will be.



You'd be surprised how many shortcuts developers in the industry as a whole take that bite them later. (read: issues regarding inventory since the beginning of 2.0)
All it takes is a bit of code analysis & breakdown to see a lot of landmines that could rear their heads at any moment.

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Still doubt it, and you haven't given me reason not to, but it would still just be a matter of not looking at job restriction for glamour. It would just mean removing a check. You can already preview gear regardless of job/class. And I have already given reason why it doesn't matter anyway.

People make a lotta assumptions about the way the glamour and equipment back end work, it's like... oh no, they'd have to redo the entire equipment backend?

Right now there's a check in place that makes sure that the item you're glamouring is one that can actually be equipped by your job. What if they just... didn't do that? Easy as that. Prolly doesn't take a whole database re-write. You can already put, say, a black mage glam over a casting robe and it just won't show up if you're not on black mage currently. What if they just made that not happen? I have the gear so clearly I deserve to wear it. Just let me wear it.

I just want a glamour system that's only five years out of date instead of fifteen and this is a fantastic first step

This would be great

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Originally Posted by Aurida

People make a lotta assumptions about the way the glamour and equipment back end work, it's like... oh no, they'd have to redo the entire equipment backend?

Right now there's a check in place that makes sure that the item you're glamouring is one that can actually be equipped by your job. What if they just... didn't do that? Easy as that. Prolly doesn't take a whole database re-write. You can already put, say, a black mage glam over a casting robe and it just won't show up if you're not on black mage currently. What if they just made that not happen? I have the gear so clearly I deserve to wear it. Just let me wear it.

I just want a glamour system that's only five years out of date instead of fifteen and this is a fantastic first step

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This would be great and simple as You described

Honestly this, I'm really sick of being restricted to my glamours based on what job I play, I don't see what's so bad about a healer not wanting to be restricted to mainly robes or wanting to wear a pair of pants or gloves that's only restricted to a certain role.

I'm not asking to wear WHM relic robes and tote around a gun, but there's literally no reason I can't wear the Stormblood caster sleeves as a ranged dps, and there's literally no reason I can't wear the striking set of the new PvP armor instead of the aiming set.

If anything it drives me a bit crazy that there are a lot of good glamour options but I can only wear them if I play certain classes.

I agree, there's a few armour sets that are only for certain jobs that I'd like to wear with a different job, it's not like a armoured or semi-armoured WHM would be more out of place than a DRK in a maid outfit or beach bikini.

And keeping artifact gear job exclusive is a good idea too, a WHM dressed as a RDM would ND just as silly as a DRK in a maid outfit imo.

should of made the new PVP glamour universal tbh. Just categorize the different colour schemes as Type-A, Type-B, etc

I feel like the caster pvp set and healer Hat would of suited Ranged much better than the tank set.

You cannot be serious with these reasons. It's the same half-a**ed excuse that Blizzard uses to justify never lifting Transmog restrictions - the fear of losing "class identity." Half of the people that I've seen up to this point don't even wear class-specific gear all that much as their glamour, going for more "slice of life" appearances or just ordinary looks.

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Originally Posted by Aurida

People make a lotta assumptions about the way the glamour and equipment back end work, it's like... oh no, they'd have to redo the entire equipment backend?

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People are also making assumptions that it’s an easy fix.

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Originally Posted by CaptainFishSticks

You cannot be serious with these reasons. It's the same half-a**ed excuse that Blizzard uses to justify never lifting Transmog restrictions - the fear of losing "class identity." Half of the people that I've seen up to this point don't even wear class-specific gear all that much as their glamour, going for more "slice of life" appearances or just ordinary looks.

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Blizzard's reason actually makes less sense since classes like Warrior can wear all types of gear, but can only transmog plate armors. That's why I say if FFXIV allows any job to glamour all gears, they may as well remove all restriction from equipping them and rolling on them for loots.

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Originally Posted by linay

Blizzard's reason actually makes less sense since classes like Warrior can wear all types of gear, but can only transmog plate armors. That's why I say if FFXIV allows any job to glamour all gears, they may as well remove all restriction from equipping them and rolling on them for loots.

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A good compromise would be to allow DoH classes the ability to "delete" class restrictions on gear at their highest levels, short of Artifact gear. Of course I don't want to begin to assume I know how the back-end works on something like this. I'm just peeved that certain classes have awesome mogs compared to others that I can't use because I main one class and want to keep a universal look for my character.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

I doubt that. That would be lazy sloppy work. But since rollable is separate form equip-able, and the auto equip feature looks at stats, it would not be the end of the world if they made past expac gear "all classes"

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Have you ever tried to level a tank through ARR content while carrying gear meant for DPS/healer? It plays havoc with the gear recommendation system because they can equip all of it. It runs off the VIT stat, so your +10 DEF / +5 VIT mage robe is recommended over the +30 DEF / +4 VIT tank armour that is still the best thing you can currently equip.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

People are also making assumptions that it’s an easy fix.

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Yoshi P also never said that lifting it is a complicated task as far as I know. His answer was always "We don't want a WAR wearing a WHM robe", which a lot are fine with that. But what we're talking about is role restricted gears that already have been reskinned to other roles.

Another option is to just provide lvl1 replica versions for the gear you obtain. Or converting any gear in the glamour dresser into a replica, which means we won't be able to store job gear in the dresser.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Have you ever tried to level a tank through ARR content while carrying gear meant for DPS/healer? It plays havoc with the gear recommendation system because they can equip all of it. It runs off the VIT stat, so your +10 DEF / +5 VIT mage robe is recommended over the +30 DEF / +4 VIT tank armour that is still the best thing you can currently equip.

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Is that still the case till now? I leveled a tank before 5.1 dropped for the Garo event and I remember the system only recommending to me gear that are for tanks when I was leveling up to 50. I bought some DPS ones by mistake and it wouldn't show up in the recommendation menu.

I had these two chest pieces in my armoury chest.
https://i.imgur.com/ymD3Rd9.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/TH19wSH.png

And this is what I get recommended
https://i.imgur.com/cK7DrI9.png

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Originally Posted by CaptainFishSticks

I'm just peeved that certain classes have awesome mogs compared to others that I can't use because I main one class and want to keep a universal look for my character.

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And that's probably the reason why they started reusing designs on different roles, which makes it clear it's not really about making each role/job look different, but that they want the restriction still in place while still allowing each role a chance at glamouring certain designs.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Yoshi P also never said that lifting it is a complicated task as far as I know. His answer was always "We don't want a WAR wearing a WHM robe", which a lot are fine with that. But what we're talking about is role restricted gears that already have been reskinned to other roles.

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I think this might be a matter of different social etiquette. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Japanese people might see it as shameful to admit that their system has limitations and they can't make it do the thing that players want, so they deflect it with a reason why they shouldn't want it to happen anyway.

Yes, more Lv1 versions of outfits (and jewellery) would be a great workaround. Preferably not placed in locations like Pagos.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

Is that still the case till now? I leveled a tank before 5.1 dropped for the Garo event and I remember the system only recommending to me gear that are for tanks when I was leveling up to 50. I bought some DPS ones by mistake and it wouldn't show up in the recommendation menu.

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That looks hopeful. Maybe they realised and switched it to look at DEF or prioritise tank gear.

Personally I'd absolutely love it if I saw a guy with an axe running around in a robe and casting thunder magic, that sounds awesome.

But really abolishing the glamour restrictions does a lot to give a lot of people more options, and the ones obsessed with 'class identity' as a valid excuse will forget that they made the changes within a week...

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Have you ever tried to level a tank through ARR content while carrying gear meant for DPS/healer? It plays havoc with the gear recommendation system because they can equip all of it. It runs off the VIT stat, so your +10 DEF / +5 VIT mage robe is recommended over the +30 DEF / +4 VIT tank armour that is still the best thing you can currently equip.

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Yes, I've noticed a few problems like that early on. That just means they need to tweak the stat priority. It's a problem that already exists and it should be addressed regardless. The point was that it clearly already looks at stats.

EDIT: according to a post above it looks like they have at least tried to fix it.

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Originally Posted by linay

To be fair, an unarmored paladin is still a paladin, not a white mage. The example of reusing certain designs for other jobs might be more applicable to your point, but even then, they're still different gears.

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Fair point, but I did mention the Sky Rat sets, but there are numerous vender, crafted and dungeon pieces and sets that have nonsensical assignments (Shisui anyone?). Garo Sets and quite a few PvP sets like the ones just added are great examples.

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

but now you even want artifact gear to be mixable?

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That is quite literally the opposite of what I said.

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Originally Posted by TwiibieTwuu

should of made the new PVP glamour universal tbh. Just categorize the different colour schemes as Type-A, Type-B, etc

I feel like the caster pvp set and healer Hat would of suited Ranged much better than the tank set.

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Yeah, I like the skintight bodysuit melee dps get but I absolutely adore the aiming set and I wish i'd be able to use that as a glam tbh.

For all their talk of woes regarding data transfer and space needed for items, you'd think they'd leap at the chance to shave some off to remove whatever flagging method is used to designate which job(s) a piece of gear is allowed to appear in.

what gets me my whm can't wear my ast hw eureka job class outfit. I think should be made at least where one healer can wear or glamour any other healers outfit same should go for all other jobs to.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

and yet you cant wear amons hat, a big red one with a massive white feather. sucks doesnt it?

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There's also the Tricorne of Striking/Scouting from the Heavensward leveling dungeons (and their craftable counterparts). There's a good chunk of gear that fits RDM's aesthetic that they can't glamour because of job restrictions. Other examples include the Coat of the Red Thief, Sky Pirate's Boots of Striking (AKA my dream boots), and the Alexandrian Coat of Healing.

As long as Job gear is still job unique, I don't mind the rest. This includes crafters staying unique.


And for those that misunderstood the comment from earlier. He was saying that if everyone could glam everything (excluding job gear) then why would any of the sets ever be different? They don't have to put in the work to make the same set different for each classification, so every set for that armor would be the same.

And for those saying "It's easy, it's just a check they could just change it." You are just being willfully ignorant. The spaghetti code in FFXIV is actually terrible. They made this game is such a short amount of time to get it relaunched and that comes with issues. Would I like them to resolve them all? Hell yes. But they are there and they are preventing things like this from being an "easy fix." Stop being armchair devs and understand that it's not as easy as it are trying to ake it sound.

Consumers have no concept of trade dress or why it's important. If you did you'd get why he isn't letting your WHM wear RDM hat.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That looks hopeful. Maybe they realised and switched it to look at DEF or prioritise tank gear.

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It might have been the no headgear on the mage piece, it would have seen the headpiece had more VIT than the mage body.

No, I don't want this.
Only black mages should have black mage gear.
Only dark knight should have dark knight armor.
I don't want to see dancers wearing DRK armor.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

It might have been the no headgear on the mage piece, it would have seen the headpiece had more VIT than the mage body.

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You're actually right. I just checked with a Cotton robe level 24 with a DEF/VIT of 15/3 against a bronze cuirass level 15 with a DEF/VIT of 32/2 and it chose the robe. I guess it's still borked lol.

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Originally Posted by Siete

No, I don't want this.
Only black mages should have black mage gear.
Only dark knight should have dark knight armor.
I don't want to see dancers wearing DRK armor.

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have you not read the rest of the thread or is that too much effort

Why should any of this be locked? None of it is iconic to any Job. Sets that support multiple jobs usually favor one: The healer sets will usually be the "whitest" but only one healer is known for wearing white. It's all dyeable anyway. Why can't I have the turban on my healer?
https://i.imgur.com/OIW8qnE.png

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Why should any of this be locked? None of it is iconic to any Job. Sets that support multiple jobs usually favor one: The healer sets will usually be the "whitest" but only one healer is known for wearing white. It's all dyeable anyway. Why can't I have the turban on my healer?
https://i.imgur.com/OIW8qnE.png

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whats that red mage? you want to look like your job? shut up and wear the purple wizard robes

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Why should any of this be locked? None of it is iconic to any Job.

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Because it's a side effect of the current system of rules over equipment and glamouring. The equipment is not role-specific which is exactly why they give us a version of it for each role so everyone can use it.

Like it or not, right now it's how they "unlock" gear that they consider to be not iconic to roles.

Meanwhile we're now onto, for example, our third iteration of the Demon / Chromite/Indigo / Forgiven gearsets and they haven't rearranged them at all. The mage robes have only ever gone to mages, the tank armour only ever goes to tanks.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Because it's a side effect of the current system of rules over equipment and glamouring. The equipment is not role-specific which is exactly why they give us a version of it for each role so everyone can use it.

Like it or not, right now it's how they "unlock" gear that they consider to be not iconic to roles.

Meanwhile we're now onto, for example, our third iteration of the Demon / Chromite/Indigo / Forgiven gearsets and they haven't rearranged them at all. The mage robes have only ever gone to mages, the tank armour only ever goes to tanks.

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Changing how glamour works is exactly what many here want. Yoshi's argument is that they want to maintain job identity and that is why these limitations are in place. These are similar but they are not all the same. Their concept of Job identity is random. The 4 tanks, 3 healers, 4 casters, and 3 ranged are forced into these weird boxes that make no sense using a psuedo-role limitation.

Let rolls and auto gear be based on stats alone. Let everything be equip-able and glamour-able once you have it. Keep a few iconic sets limited if they must, but really doesn't make much sense when you can be any class or job.

There are 4 pairs of shorts that look exactly like this. (Healers, Casters, Ranges and Monk/Sam)
https://i.imgur.com/gDqw6Uj.png

If you want to have them available to all Jobs that can use them you need to use 4 slots in your dresser and there are still several Jobs that can't use them. There is no logical reason they shouldn't be available to every job or class.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Let rolls and auto gear be based on stats alone. Let everything be equip-able and glamour-able once you have it. Keep a few iconic sets limited if they must, but really doesn't make much sense when you can be any class or job.

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I still posit that there needs to be some requirement or trade-off for being able to glamour stuff that can't be equipped by your current class. Since someone earlier in the thread mentioned FFXI, their Style Lock system checks for your character having the leveled the job corresponding to a piece of gear. For example, if you wanted to Style Lock the lv99 Thurandaut Boots you need to have leveled either MNK, DNC, BLU, Thief, Ranger, Corsair, Puppetmaster or Rune Fencer to lv99 so that they could equip the boots. Once you do that you can Style Lock it on any job.

Since I didn't address this earlier:

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Originally Posted by MrKusakabe

I would accept mix and match for random stuff, but now you even want artifact gear to be mixable?

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That's not what the OP said. The OP said artifact gear would be excluded from the changes he/she is asking for.

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Everything else? Whatever, but this "mix and match" is rather.. I don't know, I don't like it.

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Since you're fond of pictures, here's something to chew on:
https://i.imgur.com/87jH3n6.png?1

Out of the visible pieces of gear seen above, only 3 are native to RDM. The hat, the gloves, and the pants. The chest is the lv72 Deepgold Surcoat of Maiming (DRG), and the feet are the lv60 Sky Pirate's Boots of Striking (MNK). They look damn good on RDM, but I can't glamour them because of the current system.

If SE did what the OP is asking for, I'd be able to glamour the chest and feet on to my RDM. Now throw in other pieces that suit RDM's aesthetic but were given to other jobs; someone mentioned Amon's Hat, and I'll add the Orthodox and Dravanian Tricornes of Striking/Scouting and their crafted counterparts, the Red Thief set from the 3.1 Heavensward dungeons, and the Sharlayan Custodian's Coat of Fending, to name a few.

Moving beyond RDM, there's things like the Yamashi Dogi that is currently limited to DoL classes but am sure MNK, NIN and SAM players would love to be able to glamour. To say nothing of NPCs that tease players with mixed equipment (which dates as far back as ARR with Yda and Papalymo).

If you're worried about specific class aesthetics or immersion, that ship sailed when people were allowed to glamour reindeer suits and beach wear (to say nothing of the flood of 2B outfits we're seeing). The OP's request is a lot more immersive by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I still posit that there needs to be some requirement or trade-off for being able to glamour stuff that can't be equipped by your current class. Since someone earlier in the thread mentioned FFXI, their Style Lock system checks for your character having the leveled the job corresponding to a piece of gear. For example, if you wanted to Style Lock the lv99 Thurandaut Boots you need to have leveled either MNK, DNC, BLU, Thief, Ranger, Corsair, Puppetmaster or Rune Fencer to lv99 so that they could equip the boots. Once you do that you can Style Lock it on any job.

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thats not a bad idea, another incentive to level a different job.

I get job identity when it comes to weapons and artifact sets.

But where is the 'job identity' in most of the sets? Other than fending armor usually having a bit more armor on it than the other sets in a group, there really isn't any. Take the Nier sets that just released. Or Sky Rat or Shisui sets. Or the new pvp sets? Why is the aiming set just as armored as the fending set? Where is the job identity when paladins and gunbreakers have the same gear? Red mages have a very different aesthetic to them than black mages as well.

I'm fine with say having to be able to equip the gear to glamour it. IE if you want to glamour that striking piece over your aiming piece, you need to have monk or samurai leveled to apply it. But I think opening up glamours (with the exceptions for job specific gear and weapons) would be a tremendous boon to customization.

That said, with their 1.0 spaghetti code idk if this is even feasible.

Why don't they just go the PvP route with all sets that aren't class iconic. Yes I know they are still locking PvP sets, but they started in the right direction. Make a level 1 version all classes and put it on a vendor or a craft. With an ilvl of 1 it will never get mixed into other things. The PvP sets when you try to turn them in for GC seals the ilvl of 1 gives almost no GC seals even though the desynth item level was extremely high. They could even have them in new recipe books tied to some horrible content no one wants to do. No fixing on the back end needed, just reusing old assets to make something new.