Why do you want auto-attack? (discussion)[dev1022]

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Originally Posted by Dubont

k...Spirit Dart = 37 dmg to Great Buffalo
Thunder 2 = 38 dmg to great buffalo
Fire 2 = 31 dmg to great buffalo
Aero 2 = 42 dmg to great buffalo

Spirit Dart does more DoT than any spell that I can throw at it outside of BRs and being buffed.

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Well actually you shouldn't do nukes outside BR, why wasting MP when you know the dmg is gonna suck? Also the BR should be so quick you don't feel the need to nuke outside it. But it's much better to cast debuffs rather than spamming Spirit Dart, with the proper equip they always land and they are a great help.
With Paralyze and Syphon TP the NM can barely move and they land fine even as a Conjurer; also elemental debuffs casted before BR gives a nice boost at the dmg of the nuke, so I can't see where you find the time to spam 1 1 1 1 1 o.O

Tired of clicking
1

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

OH HEY A 3

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

1

Seriously, I hate it. Life would be so much easier without be having to do that. Isn't that enough reason...?

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Originally Posted by Shelia

Tired of clicking
11111111

OH HEY A 3

111111111

Seriously, I hate it. Life would be so much easier without be having to do that. Isn't that enough reason...?

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>.>

/10char

At this point, the main reason I want to see auto-attack is to make solo grinding past level 30 even remotely feasible :P


Also, outside of NMs, mobs are dieing in under 3-5 seconds without auto-attack... do you think adding auto-attack will honestly make a noticeable difference in a situation where everyone pressing '1' at the same time instantly kills a mob? If they add auto-attack, they can still scale up mobs in party quests and behests to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Well actually you shouldn't do nukes outside BR, why wasting MP when you know the dmg is gonna suck? Also the BR should be so quick you don't feel the need to nuke outside it. But it's much better to cast debuffs rather than spamming Spirit Dart, with the proper equip they always land and they are a great help.
With Paralyze and Syphon TP the NM can barely move and they land fine even as a Conjurer; also elemental debuffs casted before BR gives a nice boost at the dmg of the nuke, so I can't see where you find the time to spam 1 1 1 1 1 o.O

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Notice the spells you listed. Also notice what job uses them. Now think about what job uses most debuffs. lol Not all Con have Thm at 50 or even high enough to get decent debuffs...and since there isn't a "standard," these Cons aren't going to be in any rush to get that other job leveled =) And while, yes, the elemental debuffs are nice, you aren't seriously going to sit there and keep every elemental debuff in your bar are you? Lol there is going to be a good 2-3mins where you are just spamming 1 at some point...

i say they make the game like TEKKEN combat fight syle where you sit there for day unpon days press every god dam bottom on the controler just trying to make up you're own kind of combo. lol would be funny to see what people to come up with.

I didn't want it. IMO, it's just an excuse for people to not do their jobs. However, Yoshi has said it will be necessary for the new battle system they are implementing, so I'm willing to trust him on that one. We'll see once the update comes.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I didn't want it. IMO, it's just an excuse for people to not do their jobs. However, Yoshi has said it will be necessary for the new battle system they are implementing, so I'm willing to trust him on that one. We'll see once the update comes.

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How is it an excuse to not do your job? spamming 1 is the same as auto attack, just without 1) The delay of being able to use one of your skills because of the stamina gauge registering the 1s and 2) the destruction of your keyboard.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I didn't want it. IMO, it's just an excuse for people to not do their jobs.

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You're implying that there aren't people right now only spamming 1, or doing even less, which is the same if not worse than people mainly letting auto-attack do their jobs. This is not the first time you've been called out for it either.

Going to have to use this thing you said here:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Yeah, people tend to ignore points that are made that hurt their case.

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Originally Posted by ssppiikkeeyy

i say they make the game like TEKKEN combat fight syle where you sit there for day unpon days press every god dam bottom on the controler just trying to make up you're own kind of combo. lol would be funny to see what people to come up with.

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It's kind of funny you bring this up. Most fighters are a typical button masher and people don't seem to complain about that, so I'm not really sure why people get their panties in a twist over doing the same thing on XIV.

Not bashing or anything just, I saw a lot of people say more 'chatty' and easier to setup strats but, I mean outside pug groups(which is rare when it comes to end-game content) dont most of you use vent / mumble / ts to talk 'strategy' or the likes with your ls / friends?

Voice is always going to be faster then typing just curious saying 'implement a VOIP program through FFXIV' would solve the social aspect without adding Auto-Attack.

Anyways for the players who have 2 PC's Auto-attack would make it easier :P haha, but I don't mind either way. What ever will help make the best battle system (AA included/not included) all I really care about.

Edit: Guess 'best' is a poor word choice since its more of an opinion, but most fluent, interactive, visually appealing, encouraging strategies / making players more involved and testing there SA.. stuff of that nature.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

It's kind of funny you bring this up. Most fighters are a typical button masher and people don't seem to complain about that, so I'm not really sure why people get their panties in a twist over doing the same thing on XIV.

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Different audiences. Fighting game fans(like me) enjoy 1:1 reactions and pressing buttons.

People who strictly play RPGs... Well, they generally tend to enjoy more "sloth like" setups.

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Originally Posted by solracht

You're implying that there aren't people right now only spamming 1, or doing even less, which is the same if not worse than people mainly letting auto-attack do their jobs. This is not the first time you've been called out for it either.

Going to have to use this thing you said here:

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This is the one of the more convoluted posts that I've seen on this forum, surprising given that it's so short. Are you seriously saying that we should add auto-attack so that people will do more than stand around doing nothing?? And call him out on what exactly? All he did was offer his opinion on it.

He said people want auto-attack because they want to be lazy, and has argued before that auto-attack will bring out the lazyness in people. I told him (and others have in other places too) that people can be lazy and bad right now if they want.

Nowhere did I imply that I wanted auto-attack, either. I'm saying what he's fearing already happens, and that the result of his worst case scenario (people doing nothing at all) is worse in the current system.

Apparently auto-attack is being refered to as a sole means to an end rather than as a mechanical component of a system.



(taken from Oxford Dictionaries Online)

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system(sys·tem)

noun

1 a set of connected things or parts forming a complex whole, in particular. a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network

2 a set of principles or procedures according to which something is done ; an organized scheme or method

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Actually, I said it encourages bad behavior and laziness. Can you prove me wrong?

To piss all the boys and the girls off wwww

easier to chat. easier to afk while grinding :p

P.S. Chatting away incessantly under the pretense of AA, when you should be doing your job, is just that.

i like this battle system and personally i dont think auto attack is needed. i only use "1" sometimes to set up skills.
what i wanna see is an attritubute to increase stamina speed, add agility as an attribute this may promote other builds fast hitters ot fast casters.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I didn't want it. IMO, it's just an excuse for people to not do their jobs. However, Yoshi has said it will be necessary for the new battle system they are implementing, so I'm willing to trust him on that one. We'll see once the update comes.

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So spaming enter over and over again somehow makes you better or experience player, that's halarious and insane guy.

You know auto attack means your character meles by itself, not that it does abilities by itself too. You'll still be left with lots of spaming and job abilities.

pressing enter 10 times, is better then pressing it once? your logic is beyond dumb, if that's the case having XIV setup for you guys solo friendly and easy will make you lazy, giving you guys too much exp and easy money will make you lazy, giving you fast updates will make you lazy, giving you extra inventory will make you lazy, balancing exp will make you lazy, everything makes you lazy one day or other.

just
like
how
americans
hate
working
for
lower then
8 dollars
an
hour
doesn't that make you lazy? slap yourself.

Public Service Announcement: Attack spam is NOT a valid argument for auto-attack. If you're spamming the same ability over and over and over like that, it means that you simply fail with this battle system; it doesn't mean anything in terms of the current system.

This argument keeps getting thrown around despite the fact that it has zero merit. Learn to add some strategy to how you play and your attack spam will stop.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Public Service Announcement: Attack spam is NOT a valid argument for auto-attack. If you're spamming the same ability over and over and over like that, it means that you simply fail with this battle system; it doesn't mean anything in terms of the current system.

This argument keeps getting thrown around despite the fact that it has zero merit. Learn to add some strategy to how you play and your attack spam will stop.

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Exactly the reason many players hate this battle system, you suit it, instead of it. What a way of stating what others who want auto attack, right.

Heya!

Anyway, as I have read, they are going to implement this in order that you won't be able to finish a fight only with auto-attack, so...

I don't know a good reason to have auto-attack, as what I do most is using skills.
It's my personal thought anyway, people are different from each other =D

See ya!

I want auto attack as personally I didn't have a problem with the battle system in FFXI. I was always kept very busy in-spite of it's auto attack. However the one great thing it will allow is time to socialise with my party, something which I think is really lacking in FFXIV. I can go out in a party atm and we will constantly either fighting or running to the next fight. With the current system hardly anyone will say a thing for hours and thats just sad. If you stop to reply you aren't contributing to the party and if you try to send a message while running to the next mob you will probably get stuck on some awkward terrain. I hate that I can't reply to a message without watching my DPS drop to 0.

There will always be boring grind battles and there will always be bad players who just spam 1 or just let auto attack do it's thing, so it really doesn't make a single bit of difference in that respect.

I think some people are making mountains out of molehills with this whole auto attack announcement, anyone reading this thread would think you could just login, hit go and let the game play itself if they weren't clued up on how it actually works.

Let the devs do their thing, they are completely changing huge chucks of the gameplay by the sounds of it and that is going to take time and money. They would only be willing to spend that time and money if they really believed this would be better for what they have planned.

So chillax and wait and see the finished product before jumping to conclusions.

Meanwhile, Alexia, while you are stuck in your FFXI nostalgia mode, Guild Wars 2 and TERA gain 99% of the MMO market share because FFXIV decided that it would like to take its battle system back a step rather than keep pushing forward with it.

Lol.

Socialising during combat. That's hilarious.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Meanwhile, Alexia, while you are stuck in your FFXI nostalgia mode, Guild Wars 2 and TERA gain 99% of the MMO market share because FFXIV decided that it would like to take its battle system back a step rather than keep pushing forward with it.

Lol.

Socialising during combat. That's hilarious.

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Yeah because FFXIV has such a huge market share now, hell it doesn't even have as much as FFXI (which has auto attack) so what is your point?

Obviously the dev's think auto attack is necessary for the upcoming content changes and last time I checked Dev's > Gifthorse.

*yawn* next.....

Hopefully implementing the auto attack will remove the stamina bar. Its so frustrating to taunt/provoke when you're short on stamina. Stamina bar was a really stupid idea in the first place it pretty much limits the player to only use abilities that are considered useful, so many abilities out there that don't even get a second thought let alone be used.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Yeah because FFXIV has such a huge market share now, hell it doesn't even have as much as FFXI (which has auto attack) so what is your point?

Obviously the dev's think auto attack is necessary for the upcoming content changes and last time I checked Dev's > Gifthorse.

*yawn* next.....

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All the content the developers have planned for us is purely in response to the player polls and individual player's comments/demands. SE has reached the point where they are appealing and conceding to every self-proclaimed expert rather than seeking to improve their own vision for the game. A cursory glance at the changes released so far or slated for release in the future (i.e., aggro indicator, AH, auto-attack combat) is enough to prove that they will compromise on artistic integrity and palatability just for the sake of pleasing their current players. Sadly, most of the people who still play are FFXI fanatics or WoW players, so much so that the polls are slanted in their favour, as opposed to being slanted in favour of an overall better game.

If they think a combat system centred on auto-attack is going to be a drawcard against the upcoming MMOs like Guild Wars 2 and TERA, then FFXIV has a surprise coming. Similarly, if they merely think that changing FFXIV into FFXI-2 is going to save them, then again, all they are doing is shuffling current subscribers between games, and in the end aren't gaining any revenue.

This is an artistic issue as much as a practical one. Auto-attack is boring and many players who aren't FFXI losers would agree, hence why FFXIV will fail if it seeks only to appeal to such players and not the majority.

But whatever. Enjoy your slowly degenerating game while you still can.

i think gifthorse is a pretty cool guy, eh creates drama and doesn’t afraid of anything.

Gifthorse I think your forgetting that SE's main target market is going to be the PS3 players and last time I checked there wasn't much competition in that space for console MMO's. Yeah it would be great if they could capture the PC players to but at this point I think they have accepted they have lost most of them. There best chance is the consoles and that is why they are going to put everything they can into the PS3 release.

This brings up another reason why I want auto attack. Playing on a controller and having to scoot back to 1 for basic attack is something I can live without and I am sure SE are trying to streamline the controls for the PS3 players so auto attack would help with that.

Anyway I wish you luck with GW2 and Tera, I'll just continue to plod along in FFXIV with it's outdated battle system, have fun.

i do not want auto attack. if it would be able to be toggled i would not mind it for people that wish to make use of it, but in my case i do not use the base attack hardly at all and as a pug i have multiple different basic attacks i use.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Gifthorse I think your forgetting that SE's main target market is going to be the PS3 players and last time I checked there wasn't much competition in that space for console MMO's. Yeah it would be great if they could capture the PC players to but at this point I think they have accepted they have lost most of them. There best chance is the consoles and that is why they are going to put everything they can into the PS3 release.

This brings up another reason why I want auto attack. Playing on a controller and having to scoot back to 1 for basic attack is something I can live without and I am sure SE are trying to streamline the controls for the PS3 players so auto attack would help with that.

Anyway I wish you luck with GW2 and Tera, I'll just continue to plod along in FFXIV with it's outdated battle system, have fun.

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Im only thinking of the game's welfare.

But if you are prepared to sacrifice FFXIV's longevity just because you want to chat up some miqotes during combat, by all means, go ahead. But I hope you know even PS3 wont be this game's salvation what with Blade & Soul and DCUO already existing or soon-to-be contenders.

And I find it a pretty specious claim to say that the potential market on the PS3 is even enough to, not only rejuvinate FFXIV, but sustain it also.

I wish you luck with FFXIV too, you sure are going to need it.

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Originally Posted by Moth

i think gifthorse is a pretty cool guy, eh creates drama and doesn’t afraid of anything.

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you doesnt afriad of anything most

But why do you people even play FFXIV anyway? You obviously dont like what it stands for.

Some of us actually wanted to play ffxiv because we bought into the concept advertised by tanaka, not because of some crazy misconceptions we brought with us from FFXI or WoW. Seriously.

It's funny I am the one being told to go play GW2 or TERA when it's you and every other FFXI/WoW fanatic who is at odds with the game's underlying concepts.

Thanks for wrecking the game's potential for the rest of us, guys! :)

Hey guys let's get on Ventril- oops game crashed due to alt-tab.


^ Seems like a bigger problem than typing while trying to play imo.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Thanks for wrecking the game's potential for the rest of us, guys! :)

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This game lost its chance to move the genre forward the second it was released as it was. dealwithit.jpg

I have no doubt it'll be fun at some point (or I wouldn't be here right now), but you need to stop acting like it was ruined between release and now. It happened way before then.

SE isn't just listening to US, hence why there is EU, JP, FR and if the upcoming changes bring about good reviews China. So saying 'thanks for wrecking the game's potential for the rest of us, guys!" we are only 1/4 of the input towards player wanted changes that the DEV team gets. That is only 25% and I highly doubt that if ONLY 20%(lets say 5% were against it I'm being generous with the 'for') showed up on there end as wanting AA. They wouldn't have added it.

If you don't have any faith in the current DEV team and the decisions they ultimately make.. why still be around inputting your beliefs. Just seems like you're only wasting your own time(not directed at you solely gifthorse, just in general people who feel that way).

I understand the sake of argument just to argue and its easy to fall back on "well I really do want the game to be better". But the way most go about it honestly will never appear that way to the people who matter(dev/yoshi). It'll just come off as being ungrateful and rude.. unsure if you know there is pretty big cultural differences in the way we view 'confrontation' between US / JP.

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Originally Posted by solracht

This game lost its chance to move the genre forward the second it was released as it was. dealwithit.jpg

I have no doubt it'll be fun at some point (or I wouldn't be here right now), but you need to stop acting like it was ruined between release and now. It happened way before then.

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I never said the game was perfect at some point. What I said was that its potential was and is being ruined. You may recall.