The contempt for people with disabled people in this community really concerns me

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Originally Posted by Rokke

OP is lv 80, is done with SHB, and has some savage clears under his belt. His assumption that the forum’s disdain for lowering the difficulty further equates disdain for people who have learning disabilities like himself is a strawman at best. This thread is the equivalent to karma farming on reddit, complete with a clickbait title.

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If I was after upvotes I would follow the bandwagon of what’s popular here and post about how most players are “bad” or how the game is getting too easy or whatever flavor of the week the elitists are going on about now.

Instead I saw an issue where most people are just lumping everyone who doesn’t instantly meet their standards of performance as bad without regards to anything that might be effecting said performance(which btw is an strawman, one that is sadly accepted here). I posted a concern from my heart one that I knew was going to be unpopular and not get me useless upvotes.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I was freaking kicked out of my first try on the first boss of the orborune monastery on the day it came out because I guess I died too much?

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WTF was wrong with your party. EVERYONE dies on launch day. Multiple times. Especially the final 24 man of a set. We're all still learning. They must have been a pre-made who thinks they're Hydaelyn's gift to the world or something.

As to the OP, there are some in this game who think if you can't keep up to their pace for any reason you deserve to be ridiculed and excluded. They assume anyone not up to their standards is doing it on purpose. I am sure they are salty as hell about the new patch's difficulty setting for solo duties. If they had to go to school in snow both ways, everyone else should because otherwise they're not as special anymore. Ignore those people. They aren't worth the time.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

EDIT: The reason I say don't speak about your disability of any kind is something I went through.

When I played an MMO back in the day, I was an officer in a guild. People respected me and RPed as well. It was great. Then one day we were talking OOCly, and I happened to bring up my anxiety disorder and some things I have toruble with. You know, things you bring up with friends you are comfortable with.

After that day, things seemed fine until I started losing friends and then was removed from being an officer. The reason? I was seen as a "liability" because of my anxiety issues. They said I couldn't make good decisions because of it, and wanted someone more "normal".

So take it from me, just keep your mouth shut.

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Man I’m sorry to hear that, It’s not right you were treated that way and they were wrong for doing that to you. I told some friends of mine I had major depression and they bailed on me now I don’t tell anyone in game except the closest of my friends. I’ve learned true friends will stick with you while people that ditch you because of disability or mental health issues just aren’t worth your time. I know a handful of people that stuck with me no mater what and I wouldn’t give them up for anything.

In one day almost all forum members became disabled. I feel some social justice magic here. Where you've been before? Why never talked about that? Mystery....

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

In one day almost all forum members became disabled. I feel some social justice magic here. Where you've been before? Why never talked about that? Mystery....

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What are you talking about? As far as I know, FFXIV has been known for having the biggest community of disabled players in one way or another. A quick search on the internet will show you that.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

In one day almost all forum members became disabled. I feel some social justice magic here. Where you've been before? Why never talked about that? Mystery....

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Lol i know right!.

I'm sorry but the excuse of not being able to do the instance due to disabilities is crap. Theres plenty of people with disabilities that play this game and manage to get through the instances myself included. I mean hell this guy plays with his feet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_wrXVAFUg. I understand people wanting/needing the settings due to difficulty, but please don't use the disability card as an excuse as to why you cant beat it.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

I'm sorry but the excuse of not being able to do the instance due to disabilities is crap. Theres plenty of people with disabilities that play this game and manage to get through the instances myself included. I mean hell this guy plays with his feet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_wrXVAFUg. I understand people wanting/needing the settings due to difficulty, but please don't use the disability card as an excuse as to why you cant beat it.

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I take it you didn’t actually read what I posted past the first few sentences? This thread is about asking people not to lump disabled people who are trying and might take a bit longer learn mechanics with people who are “bad and don’t care about trying” just because someone might not learn at the pace someone else does, doesn’t mean they are not trying. Obviously I’ve cleared all the solo instances in the game so please don’t read it into my post that I’m using my disability as an excuse .

I generally keep to myself and don't really get into people's business if I can help it. I don't really have much to deal with other than typical things like depression and a less than successful life.

But from my perspective most oppression which is publicly talked about is either imaginary or exaggerated. I feel for those people whom I'll never talk to that genuinely deal with situations that are more unfortunate than usual. However I do not consider situations which arise from a poor attitude of said individual to be unfortunate, but rather deserved. Considering I cannot in all possibility distinguish someone between the two without any significant time investment, I can only compromise by treating any such potential individuals as equal as anyone else, until I can determine such a point where I should personally give them extra attention, or avoid/reprimand them altogether.

Humans have traits and those traits make them human. We're all different, but in the end we're all very much the same. The most differences and thus the most exceptions that I can perceive can only come from actually having significant time with that person myself. The span of a few hours is not enough time.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I take it you didn’t actually read what I posted past the first few sentences? This thread is about asking people not to lump disabled people who are trying and might take a bit longer learn mechanics with people who are “bad and don’t care about trying” just because someone might not learn at the pace someone else does, doesn’t mean they are not trying. Obviously I’ve cleared all the solo instances in the game so please don’t read it into my post that I’m using my disability as an excuse .

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But you still can't expect people to have the patience for someone to learn at a slower rate just because they have disabilities. Some people don't have mass amounts of playtime and want to get things done in the few hours they have. This is why we have PF so people can jump in with friends and go at what ever speed they want to learn, you can even make people aware through comments in the description.

meanwhile there's been 2 threads on the front page of the FFXIV subreddit just this week about a guy playing the game via implants in his brain. as in; literally no hands. because he was paralyzed in a car accident.

on the front page... lotta contempt for the disabled there?

Yes everyone learns at different paces, but thing is we already have a problem in Duty finder of either people under-geared or don't know how to play the class. I try to help and either get ignored or act like im the bane of the world because im trying to help players. Just because they are complaining about the accessibility options being added to this game doesn't mean that they don't like playing with disabled players, they are complaining about it from ending up with people who dont care to learn their classes and wont ever take advice.

As someone with a mental disability, it the onus is on you to educate your party on how best to help you. Its not about being skilled, its about being able to properly convey that you are "trying hard" within your own constraints, even if that doesnt translate into good play. People don't care about good results, they care about good effort, which has nothing to do with disability. I had a raider with CP a few years ago and I had nothing but respect for him that he could overcome his disability like that.

People will treat you like a regular person, because you aren't special. You need to build up the skills to get a party on your side, and its nobodies fault but your own if you don't.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

What are you talking about? As far as I know, FFXIV has been known for having the biggest community of disabled players in one way or another. A quick search on the internet will show you that.

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You know, yes, you right, I see disabled almost everyday in duty roulettes, sometimes they wear crown.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

But you still can't expect people to have the patience for someone to learn at a slower rate just because they have disabilities. Some people don't have mass amounts of playtime and want to get things done in the few hours they have. This is why we have PF so people can jump in with friends and go at what ever speed they want to learn, you can even make people aware through comments in the description.

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Sure I can, because it’s the same decency I afford others. A lot of times, probably most of the time I finish duty finder in 15-20 minutes depending on the dungeons, sometimes I might get a player that’s struggling and it takes longer maybe even 30 minutes, and you know what? It’s not that big of a deal, I’m not that self important why I can’t deal with a dungeon taking an extra 5-10 minutes. If I can work 8 hours a day and have a 45 minute commute both ways and not be a jerk to people who might take a little longer to clear content so can others. It’s a part of playing an MMO that is made of people from different backgrounds, skill level, and ability.

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Originally Posted by Buzzwords

meanwhile there's been 2 threads on the front page of the FFXIV subreddit just this week about a guy playing the game via implants in his brain. as in; literally no hands. because he was paralyzed in a car accident.

on the front page... lotta contempt for the disabled there?

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This isn’t Reddit, my post was not in response to stuff I’ve seen on Reddit but a response to comments I’ve seen on here from several people. There have been posts here from people sharing a video of a guy playing the game with his feet, not so much to say “hey this guy is awesome!” But to shame people with different disabilities saying they are bad if they aren’t at the same level of play that guys is.

The problem isnt people with disabilities its self. its people who either use it as a crutch when the arnt trying or people who dont actually care. as long as there is effort most people wont leave. there will always be those people who leave after one wipe but those arnt the majority.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

You know, yes, you right, I see disabled almost everyday in duty roulettes, sometimes they wear crown.

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I have seen a few of those this week, they had a crown and a legend title.

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Originally Posted by Pehrah

The problem isnt people with disabilities its self. its people who either use it as a crutch when the arnt trying or people who dont actually care. as long as there is effort most people wont leave. there will always be those people who leave after one wipe but those arnt the majority.

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I have to agree with this. I think we all have some "disability" be it physical, mental, or emotional. But it's all about learning your limits.

Now, I have yet to run into anyone in FF14 that has made fun of mine or my husband's issues. My husband is more open about things than I am, and more of an extrovert, so dunno if that makes a difference.

We play together in dungeons, so if I see him mess up an AoE (he has trouble focusing on multiple things, so can stand in them alot), I'm there to heal and Rescue him (I main WHM). We play off each other's strengths and weaknesses.

So after 6 pages, what I got from this thread so far is ...

1. Don't use your disability as an excuse.
2. Don't tell strangers about any disabilities you have.
3. There will be people who don't give a crap and call you "bad" or kick you (even those who don't have a disability).
4. Know your limits.
5. Surround yourself with people who understand you.
6. Go have fun.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Sure I can, because it’s the same decency I afford others. A lot of times, probably most of the time I finish duty finder in 15-20 minutes depending on the dungeons, sometimes I might get a player that’s struggling and it takes longer maybe even 30 minutes, and you know what? It’s not that big of a deal, I’m not that self important why I can’t deal with a dungeon taking an extra 5-10 minutes. If I can work 8 hours a day and have a 45 minute commute both ways and not be a jerk to people who might take a little longer to clear content so can others. It’s a part of playing an MMO that is made of people from different backgrounds, skill level, and ability.

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Well of course dungeons are different you expect that. But savage and extremes you let players know in the comments to expect lots of wipes etc.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Well of course dungeons are different you expect that. But savage and extremes you let players know in the comments to expect lots of wipes etc.

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And yet when I was a new player and still learning things in The Great Gubel library I was told to uninstall the the game because I was no good at this one *shrug*

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

And yet when I was a new player and still learning things in The Great Gubel library I was told to uninstall the the game because I was no good at this one *shrug*

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Players say mean things to other players regardless of the presence or absence of any type of disability. For example, I was told by a MCH during my first run of the Vault that I was a bad player for playing the Infamous Bowmage back in 3.1, and that I should feel bad for picking suck a weak job.

Disabilities have very little with people being cruel on the Internet.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Disabilities have very little with people being cruel on the Internet.

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QFT /10char

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Players say mean things to other players regardless of the presence or absence of any type of disability. For example, I was told by a MCH during my first run of the Vault that I was a bad player for playing the Infamous Bowmage back in 3.1, and that I should feel bad for picking suck a weak job.

Disabilities have very little with people being cruel on the Internet.

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I realize that but comments in other threads about wanting to “gate the bads out” and make them quit make me think back to experiences like that, when people the possibility of some of “the bads” having a disability it was scoffed at many saying it didn’t mater others have said they don’t want to waste their time in longer runs with people who have disabilities that affect their play skill as shown in a few comments here.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I realize that but comments in other threads about wanting to “gate the bads out” and make them quit make me think back to experiences like that, when people the possibility of some of “the bads” having a disability it was scoffed at many saying it didn’t mater others have said they don’t want to waste their time in longer runs with people who have disabilities that affect their play skill as shown in a few comments here.

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Those people are trolling 100%

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Originally Posted by Pehrah

Those people are trolling 100%

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Were they? I feel pretty stupid now =/ like I said I have aspegers sometimes stuff flies over my head and I tend to take people literally

Yea most comments "gate out the bads" and you need to play good or else are all trolls. I have been talking this topic over with my fc most of em run savages and clear ultimates, and we agree that if your trying and say things in chat, and regard people giving advice even if they are assholes about it people will stick it out. there is gonna be those who leave after one wipe but everyone suffers from them

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Were they? I feel pretty stupid now =/ like I said I have aspegers sometimes stuff flies over my head and I tend to take people literally

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A good rule of thumb is to take a moment and think "how absurd does this sound?" If it tops the charts, it's very likely people trolling for a giggle. The Internet loves absurdity, especially in video game communities.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Players say mean things to other players regardless of the presence or absence of any type of disability. For example, I was told by a MCH during my first run of the Vault that I was a bad player for playing the Infamous Bowmage back in 3.1, and that I should feel bad for picking suck a weak job.

Disabilities have very little with people being cruel on the Internet.

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..........and you the 'infamous bowmage from 3.1' was probably #2 on the enmity list for every encounter, while said perpetrator was #4, dragging everyone down and not using a single AOE.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Were they? I feel pretty stupid now =/ like I said I have aspegers sometimes stuff flies over my head and I tend to take people literally

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You and my husband should get together, as he as aspergers as well. Diagnosed 2 years ago, and we are slowly learning how to work together with it.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

You and my husband should get together, as he as aspergers as well. Diagnosed 2 years ago, and we are slowly learning how to work together with it.

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I was actually just diagnosed last year myself even though I’m an adult apparently when I was a kid people were quick to chalk everything up to ADHD, knowing that I have aspergers/autisum spectrum disorder has helped me make a lot more sense of my life and why I’m the way I am.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

This isn’t Reddit, my post was not in response to stuff I’ve seen on Reddit but a response to comments I’ve seen on here from several people. There have been posts here from people sharing a video of a guy playing the game with his feet, not so much to say “hey this guy is awesome!” But to shame people with different disabilities saying they are bad if they aren’t at the same level of play that guys is.

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1) it's all the same "community" if anything reddit is a more honest reflection since things can be up and downvoted, as opposed to the front page just being "the things that got bumped most recently."

2) the guy playing with his feet is another great example. it's NOT contempt for the disabled, it's contempt for poor play. regardless of WHY.

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Originally Posted by Buzzwords

2) the guy playing with his feet is another great example. it's NOT contempt for the disabled, it's contempt for poor play. regardless of WHY.

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The WHY is important though, if someone is struggling but slowly learning that isn’t poor play, poor is more determined by attitude the “you don’t pay my sub so shut up ” people when helpful, polite advice is given advice or the “lol you suck git gud types” you can’t come across a random whose performance they don’t like and determine if they are being lazy, you don’t know what’s going on. In their head, or the people that show up in dungeons way undergeared(thankfully this is being fixed in the update. If someone is trying I will not say they are playing poorly which again is part of the problem you don’t know if the random you come across is trying or not so be a bit more charitable, that’s all I’m asking.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Were they? I feel pretty stupid now =/ like I said I have aspegers sometimes stuff flies over my head and I tend to take people literally

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No, they're not trolling, I have yobaetoti, I can tell that for sure.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

No, they're not trolling, I have yobaetoti, I can tell that for sure.

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What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

The WHY is important though, if someone is struggling but slowly learning that isn’t poor play, poor is more determined by attitude the “you don’t pay my sub so shut up ” people when helpful, polite advice is given advice or the “lol you suck git gud types” you can’t come across a random whose performance they don’t like and determine if they are being lazy, you don’t know what’s going on. In their head, or the people that show up in dungeons way undergeared(thankfully this is being fixed in the update. If someone is trying I will not say they are playing poorly which again is part of the problem you don’t know if the random you come across is trying or not so be a bit more charitable, that’s all I’m asking.

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Unless one speaks up no one will know, and if someone speaks up call me cynical or an ass but I sinply view that as a means of wanting special considerations to made regarding your issue.

Mental emotional or what have you are not explain away everything, and tbe reailty is the why is just an excuse sure it may be valid but an excuse nonetheless.

In the end no one will know if you say nothing, so begs the question why mention it in the first place unless you are expecting some different treatment.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

What does that mean?

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It means that you shouldnt say things about your social and mental problems left and right.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Unless one speaks up no one will know, and if someone speaks up call me cynical or an ass but I sinply view that as a means of wanting special considerations to made regarding your issue.

Mental emotional or what have you are not explain away everything, and tbe reailty is the why is just an excuse sure it may be valid but an excuse nonetheless.

In the end no one will know if you say nothing, so begs the question why mention it in the first place unless you are expecting some different treatment.

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Awha I don’t think it will do much good for us to converse anymore, you made it clear you want to see perfect runs without mistakes, I think this is an unreasonable expectation and some leeway should be afforded which you claim is “special treatment”. I don’t think going forward me replying to you or you to me will do either of us any good.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

It means that you shouldnt say things about your social and mental problems left and right.

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And why is that? Is it wrong to show the other side of people who lump all the “bads” together? Is it wrong not to just go along with what’s accepted as the norm around here?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

And why is that? Is it wrong to show the other side of people who lump all the “bads” together? Is it wrong not to just go along with what’s accepted as the norm around here?

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Because you're a normal person, like everyone else, who have their problems. Stop wear your "illness" as a hat to have special treatment.