Discussion about the new 5.1 dungeon: The Grand Cosmos

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Originally Posted by Nalien

My 1.0 memory is fuzzy, but didn't Silvertear technically span a large area to the west as well? Past Silvertear Falls. Or rather, it should have, but the aftermath of the Battle of Silvertear Skies effectively drained the lake, reducing it to what we have these days. With no Battle of Silvertear Skies in the First, it stands the reason the lake is much more expansive than what we have on the Source.

Although now that I think about it, I don't think Silvertear Falls (or would that be Source Falls on the First?) isn't oddly absent on the First. Different geological history and all that, but it's a shame if nothing else, we get a really amazing shot of the Falls in 1.0s opening cinematic, would have been nice to see a recreation of that.

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Oh, it's definitely been drained in places farther south and to the west as you said. You can see briefly what the lake used to look like in the 1.0 trailer in with the water falls and all. The Source (the lake) not sharing the same history with Silvertear will obviously affect its size. I was just stating that Silvertear is still part of Mor Dhona as the Source is still part of Lakeland, even the farthest shore of it. If you head south from Lakeland you would end up in Ahm Arang, same as you would end up in Thanalan if you went south of Mor Dhona. The Grand Cosmos has purple trees in and around its area.

I'm sure there is a better way to explain my thought process on this. But, this is what I came up with so far.

It's a technicality really, but there are two ways you might use "Lakeland" - the geographical region known to residents of the First, and the zone accessible to us in the game. It's probably in the region, but nowhere near the zone.

Welp, if the place has absolutely nothing to do with Eulmore, maybe we'll get something in a future patch.

The whole ascension/meol thing still seems like it was way too big of a deal to be casually conducted within the city itself when its discovery could've completely undermined their society.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Welp, if the place has absolutely nothing to do with Eulmore, maybe we'll get something in a future patch.

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Well it may turn out related to Eulmore in some way once we get into the 5.1 MSQ but for now we just wait and see.

On topic...

I am curious who is this Mage we are probably going there to look for is. We now know it was once the Palace for the Elves Kingdom but now a home for a Mysterious Mage.

Well this threw me for a loop. Wasn't expecting an area near Lakeland to get a dungeon but it's totally welcomed. I was guessing the Crystarium as my second main guess and it's close enough I figure.

Going to be mirroring 4.1's MSQ but my guess is we'll search for the mage to help send the Scions back. We'll go through the dungeon and either meet the mage as the final boss or just see them after.

Then we'll most likely have to go to Eulmore to talk to the Chai's about a specific thing the mage needs, and possibly use a Talos considering Sir Chai has his motivation back. Potentially a solo instance around here as well that will set up for 5.2.

All in all I'm really digging the Cosmos' courtyard area. It really has this essence of fall especially with the trees dropping all of their leaves to the ground.

Taking a look from the synopsis and the original photos we'll start outside leading to the courtyard where the first boss will be, then it'll be walking down the chambers to the second boss, and probably finishing it off in the castle's deepest area where the mage is.

Gear choice for the dungeon is peculiar considering pictures of the Grand Cosmos we've seen so far. Are there some strange rituals going on in the palace?

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Originally Posted by Erendis

Gear choice for the dungeon is peculiar considering pictures of the Grand Cosmos we've seen so far. Are there some strange rituals going on in the palace?

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The armor is based on Gnoles, which inhabit parts of Lakeland. I believe there is some FATE lore associated with them that implies that they were once Elves, effectively turned into Werewolves by the Shadowkeeper prior to the Flood. Given the Grand Cosmos is an Elven dungeon, I guess it makes sense to have Gnole themed armor? Could be more to it than that, but that's all I have at the moment. Wouldn't be surprised if the mage in question is doing some research into Gnoles, or something like that. I'm going with Elf prince trying to undo the curse, personally

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Well it may turn out related to Eulmore in some way once we get into the 5.1 MSQ but for now we just wait and see.

On topic...

I am curious who is this Mage we are probably going there to look for is. We now know it was once the Palace for the Elves Kingdom but now a home for a Mysterious Mage.

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Pretty sure that's another FF I reference. We had quite a few on the First, and the mage might very well be Astos, since FF I Astos resides in the Swamp Palace which formerly belonged to the elves...

I really like the backstory. Of the societies destroyed by the Flood, Lakeland's Elves are the ones that caught my curiosity the most. I'm also interested in this mage who's moved in.

If I had to guess, I'd say Chateau Villandry was the inspiration for this place.

https://i.imgur.com/gvApNZP.jpg

https://www.chateauvillandry.fr/en/w...dry_030419.jpg

https://media.tacdn.com/media/attrac...6/df/74/77.jpg

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's a technicality really, but there are two ways you might use "Lakeland" - the geographical region known to residents of the First, and the zone accessible to us in the game. It's probably in the region, but nowhere near the zone.

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And in this instance I was referring to the geographical region. Could I have been more explicit about it being in 'actual Lakeland'(the region) rather than in 'explorable Lakeland'(the zone)? Probably, but I felt that I had conveyed the meaning well enough. But that is neither here or there, because the actual point I was trying to make is that the Eulmore and Il Mheg theories were debunked.

i am bit confused.
Long ago, on the far shore of the Source, a great palace was built by the elves─the Grand Cosmos
Source as the place in lakeland?

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Originally Posted by Johaandr

i am bit confused.
Long ago, on the far shore of the Source, a great palace was built by the elves─the Grand Cosmos
Source as the place in lakeland?

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Yes, the Source is the name given to Lakeland's eponymous lake, and is presumably the First's counterpart to Silvertear.

There was actually an interesting quote I'd found from 2.X where Minfilia was explaining about Midgardsormr and that he had been set by Hydaelyn to watch over (quoting from memory) "the source from which all magic and aether flows". It was definitely called the "source", lower case.

I don't think it's coincidence that the word has come up again in conjunction with the same lake on the First.

So we got even more details from the trailer.

We know the wizard in the castle is actually a Nu Mou as they state in a trailer.

Also the music is the battle theme from the later ARR leveling dungeons (Like Stone Vigil and Aurum Vale) but reorchestrated and it sounds absolutely fantastic. Wasn't expecting that at all but it's totally welcome. Gives me feelings like the Burn did with Penitus being used.

I assume the Nu Mou wizard is this guy: https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...-C8dU8s8uQ.jpg

Implying he comes back to the Crystarium with us.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I assume the Nu Mou wizard is this guy: https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...-C8dU8s8uQ.jpg

Implying he comes back to the Crystarium with us.

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Really hoping that's Ezel Berbier or an expy of him.

Also, the Nu Mou is an expert on souls, apparently, so I assume the whole point of going to see him (them???) is to make some progress on getting the Scions back to the Source.

Since G'raha seems to have a connection at the soul level to the scions as their "summoner", I wonder if its going to turn out that the way to send them back is for his soul to go to the Source, too? And they'll piggyback along?

Also, totally using trust for the first run here.

Also, also, that ballroom scene is giving me "Once Upon a December" vibes. lol And its reminding me that I really want a 2 person waltz emote.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Really hoping that's Ezel Berbier or an expy of him.

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That'd be great.

I might be overthinking it but when they showed the new dungeon, there was a ballroom with what appears to be ghosts of people that might have been living in here. And I couldn't help but think of the ballroom from the first NieR game.

https://i.imgur.com/fodQ1pg.png

Maybe this dungeon will lead us to the NieR Raid?

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Originally Posted by AxHell

I might be overthinking it but when they showed the new dungeon, there was a ballroom with what appears to be ghosts of people that might have been living in here. And I couldn't help but think of the ballroom from the first NieR game.

https://i.imgur.com/fodQ1pg.png

Maybe this dungeon will lead us to the NieR Raid?

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Nah G'raha clearly talks about it thus it will be MSQ also Nier raid be by Dwaves while this will be in lakeland

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Nah G'raha clearly talks about it thus it will be MSQ also Nier raid be by Dwaves while this will be in lakeland

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Well like I said I was kinda overthinking it and couldn't help but draw parallels to the Shadowlord Castle from the first NieR game with the similarities: both places are abandoned except for one person (Shadowlord and the Nu Mou), they both have a ballroom...

Plus the trailer kinda put heavy emphasis on the crossover raid with NieR Automata so yeah...

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Originally Posted by AxHell

Well like I said I was kinda overthinking it and couldn't help but draw parallels to the Shadowlord Castle from the first NieR game with the similarities: both places are abandoned except for one person (Shadowlord and the Nu Mou), they both have a ballroom...

Plus the trailer kinda put heavy emphasis on the crossover raid with NieR Automata so yeah...

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It is most likely a heavy reference to it but nothing more (of the final fantasys i have played i don't recall a haunted ballroom so this is most likely a NieR thing unless someone knows of one in the series)

Haunted ballroom set pieces are a concept going back decades. Disneyland's Haunted Mansion has had it since the 60s and I'm sure there are older examples.

Like I said before, it reminded me of Anastasia:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LWwKdejZLfE/hqdefault.jpg

Given the Nu Mou's nature, at least in Il Mheg, of being heavily nostalgic for the past, its likely not even "haunted". More like a more ethereal version of the glamour Hades used in Amaurot. Though I suppose the Nu Mou there could be a nutter, and has actually trapped fragments of souls there.

That waltz animation, though. I can't get over it. There's even that twirl your partner move in it. Want.

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Originally Posted by AxHell

I might be overthinking it but when they showed the new dungeon, there was a ballroom with what appears to be ghosts of people that might have been living in here. And I couldn't help but think of the ballroom from the first NieR game.

https://i.imgur.com/fodQ1pg.png

Maybe this dungeon will lead us to the NieR Raid?

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I hear Kaine say "Bunch of bastards dancing" when I see this image lol.
I think it's a common trope in haunted things, but that would be a funny reference to Nier (Nier itself being full of references about other games). That's a big coincidence nevertheless.

It seems obvious that it is linked to sending the Scions back (that's what the FR promotional site implies). Seven days and we will know :D

Well the dungeon is finally out! Tagging spoilers for the sake of it since this is fresh content but a general thought on it relating to the media we've been shown.
The set pieces like the ghost dancers was insanely cool. It's one thing seeing the video of it but going in there to check it out in person was fantastic.
It was fun piecing together what I thought each boss would be as well as trying to think of what song will play in it.

So the song itself is the Grand Dungeon being a rendition of Lakeland's theme. SE doing that classic fake out putting the retuned 2.0 dungeon battle theme over it made me think they were doing something different but nope!

In terms of bosses the first one was annoying but easy to deal with. My group got so many vul stacks but we managed. The second boss was nothing too crazy past the seeds, but we handled it. However the third boss is absolute DF wipe material. So many times I would put myself in the right spot, and he would charge a dps and cleave the furniture destroying it. So we almost always had one person die to the blue flames. The concept behind the boss was pretty fun, and it made me use my head (but especially read my debuffs) to understand what was happening.

I'd still say Twinning and Amaurot are better dungeons as a whole, however it was a fun time and I'll be happy to run it in my Expert rous if people can use their heads for the final boss.

Dungeon was okay in the end.

Not very story relevant, just a place where we need to beat up some 'familiars' to get their master's attention. But the dungeon itself was fine if not spectacular, though I did like the burning furniture mechanic in the last boss.

The dancing ghosts though I can add to the pile of potentially unitentional Nier references.

5 wipes on last boss...
No spoilers but jeez

I went in with trusts and wiped like 6 times on the first boss. Next two were much easier but on the last boss I had some trouble figuring out where was safe and where was Bad when he was

erupting flames out of squares on the ground.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

I went in with trusts and wiped like 6 times on the first boss. Next two were much easier but on the last boss I had some trouble figuring out where was safe and where was Bad when he was

erupting flames out of squares on the ground.

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That's something which took me a while to figure out too.

It's not exactly squares, but more that when the red spread marker resolves, your character also drops a cross-shaped "puddle" below them. Since team members tend to cluster together anyway, these crosses often intersect to form squares.

Personally I just make sure I move away from my own cross, while making sure not to go too near to anyone else's cross.

My own problems with the bosses in the dungeon is on the first one, and it's just something that I can practice for.

Namely, the hitboxes on those brooms are a lot bigger than I expected. Even worse since they knockback.

This is text.

Those "mid-boss" knights and lord that came out of the paintings, are they a reference to characters from another SqE game or somewhere else? Or are they just recreated Voeburt knights with names added for flavour?

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

This is text.

Those "mid-boss" knights and lord that came out of the paintings, are they a reference to characters from another SqE game or somewhere else? Or are they just recreated Voeburt knights with names added for flavour?

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I am pretty sure that...

... some of them used the models of the Heaven's Ward, maybe with slightly other colours, but Phinibert(?) was eerily look-alike to Zephirin, down to the armour. And the one on horseback could be a more humanoid Thordan.

There certainly were Vault references there...

https://i.imgur.com/mmflwfZ.png

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I am pretty sure that...

... some of them used the models of the Heaven's Ward, maybe with slightly other colours, but Phinibert(?) was eerily look-alike to Zephirin, down to the armour. And the one on horseback could be a more humanoid Thordan.

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I am assuming these people are the First counterparts of them but of course they are dead now due to the flood.

We know each shard all have fragments of everyone's souls so their appearance maybe different or similar but their souls will always be the same.

Didn't have any problems with the last boss.

Wiped 3 times on the 1st boss though

!smoorb gnikcuF
Swish Swish-aroo!

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

Those "mid-boss" knights and lord that came out of the paintings, are they a reference to characters from another SqE game or somewhere else? Or are they just recreated Voeburt knights with names added for flavour?

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I believe that...

... they are knights of Lakeland (or Laxan), because one of them says "For Lakeland" during battle.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I am pretty sure that...

... some of them used the models of the Heaven's Ward, maybe with slightly other colours, but Phinibert(?) was eerily look-alike to Zephirin, down to the armour. And the one on horseback could be a more humanoid Thordan.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

I believe that...

... they are knights of Lakeland (or Laxan), because one of them says "For Lakeland" during battle.

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Thank you for the info! I'm too stressed, depressed, and burnt out to play much of anything lately, and by the time of writing this have only been through the dungeon one time but was curious, so again, thank you.