Allowing Gear Change in Active Mode

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Originally Posted by CamAlch

"Hold on guys! Don't engage yet! Let me just change my pants real quick!"

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I think it's acceptable and fair that you get punished because you picked a fight with a nasty beasty while wearing your swimsuit.

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Originally Posted by Rau

As the title implies, I'm curious to see everyone's opinion of the introduction of this. Gear Swapping macros were common in XI, and with the recent implementation of JSE in XIV, I think its only appropriate that something similar is allowed to be done.

imo Active/Passive Mode is a vestige of Tanaka's FFXIV, and should probably be done away with, but that's besides the point.

Some of these AF pieces are... lacking. However, they have some unique perks that are only needed from time to time (ie, Choral Shirt's enhanced ballads). Nothing is stopping us from putting our weapon away, and then switching, and then switching back, but it's just annoying to have to deal with that.


Thoughts?

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pretty sure in your example that if i sung my song and went into passive mode it wouldn't let me change my gear unless i hadn't fired a single arrow at the paries mobs. which imo would mean i'm not doing my job.

never actually tested this though i base it off experience with changing class at the end of caravan escorts

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

In my honest opinion, gear swapping in mid fight was an extremely broken system that eventually became the norm of a game. I am here for FFXIV, not FFXI-2.

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Didn't early dev interviews about FFXIV specifically say that gear swapping in FFXI was considered an exploit and bug by the devs, but they couldn't take it out because people already became so reliant and used to it?

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...32/112/58e.jpg

I dont want this to be gear swap macro fever again, as it was in FFXI......

No thank you, I thought we put this to bed already :p

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

Imagine fighting Chimera as a tank. Oh! Lightning is coming, swap to lightning resist. Oh! Ice is coming, swap to ice resist. Oh! Fire is coming, swap to fire resist. Oh, my flash/provoke is up, swap to enmity gear. Oh! My HP is low, swap to healing gear for self heal. What if one day they introduce a boss/mob with all elemental spells, are you telling me that to be optimal/beneficial, you will need every set of resist gears + enmity gear + healing gear? In my honest opinion, gear swapping in mid fight was an extremely broken system that eventually became the norm of a game. I am here for FFXIV, not FFXI-2.

In addition, to make more gears desired by more players isn't the same as making them carry multiple sets of gears for every possible encounters in a given battle.

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Kudos to this post.

This is exactly why I don't like the gear swap system. Instead of having to make decisions about which gear you should equip for a fight, a gear swapper would just collect things for every situation and bypass any strategy involved in gear selection.

I just want to jump in this thread to say that, if they want to avoid threads like these, it would be nice to see some more gear that balances a little of everything a class needs. Some of the AF pieces look more-or-less like "macro pieces"--for example, switching into BLM AF hat just to use Convert. -recast on Convert is extremely nice, but doesn't mean I'd be willing to sacrifice my overall DD for it. Or switching into a lot of crit potency gear (since you can rack up up quite a bit with gear, across many slots) to use Excruciate...

Someone earlier asked "Do you see them doing it" with regard to mages changing gear in combat--and no, you don't. That's not because they don't want to, but because some real sh*t could go down in the 5-10 seconds I spend blinking in/out 8 times and being rooted for a bit every couple seconds.

I guess what I'm saying is that there needs to be more definitive "Best in slot" gear if we're not going to be able to swap. If SE doesn't want me to have an enhancing set and healing set, then make me pieces that enhance both enhancing and enfeebling.

*EDIT:* Just to clarify--I'm not saying make a single piece that has the highest number of all stats, or put all stats on all pieces. But that I'd rather have a balanced piece than either a focus on stat A or stat B, which does encourage having multiple sets.

No to gear swapping! That is all.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

I just want to jump in this thread to say that, if they want to avoid threads like these, it would be nice to see some more gear that balances a little of everything a class needs. Some of the AF pieces look more-or-less like "macro pieces"--for example, switching into BLM AF hat just to use Convert. -recast on Convert is extremely nice, but doesn't mean I'd be willing to sacrifice my overall DD for it. Or switching into a lot of crit potency gear (since you can rack up up quite a bit with gear, across many slots) to use Excruciate...

Someone earlier asked "Do you see them doing it" with regard to mages changing gear in combat--and no, you don't. That's not because they don't want to, but because some real sh*t could go down in the 5-10 seconds I spend blinking in/out 8 times and being rooted for a bit every couple seconds.

I guess what I'm saying is that there needs to be more definitive "Best in slot" gear if we're not going to be able to swap. If SE doesn't want me to have an enhancing set and healing set, then make me pieces that enhance both enhancing and enfeebling.

*EDIT:* Just to clarify--I'm not saying make a single piece that has the highest number of all stats, or put all stats on all pieces. But that I'd rather have a balanced piece than either a focus on stat A or stat B, which does encourage having multiple sets.

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While I agree with you statement to a certain extent. In my opinion, that's part of the gear selection process. Take your BLM AF hat for example, you may say that it is a piece of gear designed to be "swapped" when you cast Convert. I would argue that, in most scenarios when MP isn't an issue for the length of the fight or the mechanism of the fight. I would simply ditch the BLM AF hat entirely and go for a straight damage/accuracy upgrade hat. However, if today I was soloing my way into a stronghold where I may run into situations where I will need emergency MP to get out of a sticky situation, then I will choose to go in the stronghold with my BLM AF hat for the extra insurance. Moreover, if I went into a instance, and the group is clearing/running our way towards the boss. During the run, I will also switch to my BLM AF hat so that I have more MP on demand, thus reducing the downtime. Once the group have arrived at the boss, then I will switch to the damage/accuracy hat for more reliable source of damage on the boss.

There are other MMOs that have done things more in line with what you said (a more definitive bis), for example: tier sets in WoW. Most of the time, the stats on the tier sets do not make them the bis, but combined with the tier bonus, the gears become desirable. However, in WoW, the tier bonus is usually overwhelmingly powerful, so that picking up tiers is inevitable and no gear selection decisions are required (other than figuring out which piece out of the five is the weakest, usually the case for dps, not always the case for healer/tank). But in the case of FFXIV, some of the bonuses on the AF fall into the category of "nice to have" and is at best a sidegrade, but depending on the situation/encounter it may become the bis. This to me is a more ideal way of balancing the gear.

This of course is simply my point of view, and you are more than welcome to agree to disagree.

After reading majority of the comments... son I am disappoint. Skilled players can do well enough without equipment swaps? You could, but why use a wrench to bang in nails when you have a hammer? Jesus. If you couldn't tell already, I support equipment swapping mid battle. It's retarded not to. Even if they did add it you don't have to use it. And inventory wouldn't be an issue. You already had a full set of gear + situation gear as well as this new AF. It would be, I don't know, like 4 or more extra slots per class? And most of the gear is classstackable, lol.

I think it is funny that so many people are against Gear swapping. It's just a bunch of people trying to excuse mediocrity. If you had trouble switching to MDT/PDT sets when NMs were doing certain moves etc in FFXI, then I feel bad for you. like the guy above me said, if it is implemented, you don't need to use it. Let the people who like to become the best they can possibly be, do just that. I find it funny that people use the term "elitist" to give a bad name to people who like to not suck.

Certainly wouldn't mind it being introduced into FFXIV, but I wouldn't miss it by a long shot either if it doesn't get implemented.

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

While I agree with you statement to a certain extent. In my opinion, that's part of the gear selection process. Take your BLM AF hat for example, you may say that it is a piece of gear designed to be "swapped" when you cast Convert. I would argue that, in most scenarios when MP isn't an issue for the length of the fight or the mechanism of the fight. I would simply ditch the BLM AF hat entirely and go for a straight damage/accuracy upgrade hat. However, if today I was soloing my way into a stronghold where I may run into situations where I will need emergency MP to get out of a sticky situation, then I will choose to go in the stronghold with my BLM AF hat for the extra insurance. Moreover, if I went into a instance, and the group is clearing/running our way towards the boss. During the run, I will also switch to my BLM AF hat so that I have more MP on demand, thus reducing the downtime. Once the group have arrived at the boss, then I will switch to the damage/accuracy hat for more reliable source of damage on the boss.

There are other MMOs that have done things more in line with what you said (a more definitive bis), for example: tier sets in WoW. Most of the time, the stats on the tier sets do not make them the bis, but combined with the tier bonus, the gears become desirable. However, in WoW, the tier bonus is usually overwhelmingly powerful, so that picking up tiers is inevitable and no gear selection decisions are required (other than figuring out which piece out of the five is the weakest, usually the case for dps, not always the case for healer/tank). But in the case of FFXIV, some of the bonuses on the AF fall into the category of "nice to have" and is at best a sidegrade, but depending on the situation/encounter it may become the bis. This to me is a more ideal way of balancing the gear.

This of course is simply my point of view, and you are more than welcome to agree to disagree.

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I didn't say it in my last post, but I also meant to say something like "If we must go without swapping gear, then..." Because frankly, I am in favor of having various sets that can be swapped in a moment's notice.

In my opinion, it adds more meaning to getting individual pieces of gear--not that your scenario doesn't, but I'd be much more likely to get three nearly-impossible bodies for my WHM if I could use all three--Regen Potency, Cure Potency, Stoneskin Potency, or something. While you're right that, even with the current system, you should have all three and select based upon the situation, the fact is all three of these are powerful pieces and, if SE could manage to make them difficult, but not tedious, to acquire, it would be much more interesting than getting a +Cure body and wearing it over anything else because, in general, it will be the best. Of course a fight here and there would be different, but...

I also do like your ideas--especially since we have two WHMs (normally) in a party, it's interesting to think that one could gear towards higher buffs and lower cures, while the other gears toward higher cures and just lets the other buff--or something like that--but I think that in the end, it would be more worthwhile to focus on Healing Potency over anything for most fights--or just buff in different gear then change back before entering combat. I like being able to use the advantages of all my hard-earned gear.

The reason I suggested making better "all-around" pieces was that, if we have to stick with a single piece, I don't want to worry about sacrificing X for Y. I'd rather have a piece that gives 35% cure potency and 15% regen potency than choose between two pieces, one that gives 50% cure potency, and one that gives 25% regen potency. If I could switch, I'd be more likely to use the last two, but if I couldn't I'd lean toward the first one. Sadly, we can't switch, but there isn't anything like the former.

hated it in xi, definitly would hate it in xiv.I know its a fantasy game but unless its built into the story like dresspheres or something it just seems stupid

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Gear swap Macros in battle... NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

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And he mean's it so much he typed every single one of those NO's by hand.

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Originally Posted by KyrsIsley

While I agree with you statement to a certain extent. In my opinion, that's part of the gear selection process. Take your BLM AF hat for example, you may say that it is a piece of gear designed to be "swapped" when you cast Convert. I would argue that, in most scenarios when MP isn't an issue for the length of the fight or the mechanism of the fight. I would simply ditch the BLM AF hat entirely and go for a straight damage/accuracy upgrade hat. However, if today I was soloing my way into a stronghold where I may run into situations where I will need emergency MP to get out of a sticky situation, then I will choose to go in the stronghold with my BLM AF hat for the extra insurance. Moreover, if I went into a instance, and the group is clearing/running our way towards the boss. During the run, I will also switch to my BLM AF hat so that I have more MP on demand, thus reducing the downtime. Once the group have arrived at the boss, then I will switch to the damage/accuracy hat for more reliable source of damage on the boss.

There are other MMOs that have done things more in line with what you said (a more definitive bis), for example: tier sets in WoW. Most of the time, the stats on the tier sets do not make them the bis, but combined with the tier bonus, the gears become desirable. However, in WoW, the tier bonus is usually overwhelmingly powerful, so that picking up tiers is inevitable and no gear selection decisions are required (other than figuring out which piece out of the five is the weakest, usually the case for dps, not always the case for healer/tank). But in the case of FFXIV, some of the bonuses on the AF fall into the category of "nice to have" and is at best a sidegrade, but depending on the situation/encounter it may become the bis. This to me is a more ideal way of balancing the gear.

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WoW definitely does take the guesswork out of endgame gear. They've used the same methodology for the last two expansions (BC started moving toward this model, but WotLK really locked it into place). You run normal dungeons to gear up for heroic dungeons. You run heroics to gear up for raids. Your raid drops are placeholders for your tier pieces, which are bought with points you get in heroics and raids. As you said, the 2/4 piece set bonuses are too powerful to ignore so even if your raid drops are on par, you'll still always be working for at least 4 pieces of the tier set. In the end, the only decision you make is how to gem/enchant/reforge each piece.

Even with this idiot-proof gearing model, I was still always dragging around three gear sets in WoW - my raid healing set, my solo DPS set, and my PvP healing set.

As much as I hated it eating up my precious bag space, I can understand having a couple different sets or key pieces for generally different situations. The example you gave with the BLM AF hat is reasonable.

What I don't like is situational gear specifically tailored to one raid, or one encounter, or even one spell. Like how back in the day your guild wouldn't take you to 40 man Molten Core if you didn't have a certain level of fire resistance gear. Or how in FFXI you had to have an arsenal of wands and staves and MP regen gear you were constantly switching out during combat and while resting (needed to hire myself a taru caddy squire to lug all that stuff around).

I'm certainly not saying I want this game to emulate the formulaic end game gear grind that WoW has down to a science. But I have no desire to get back into the ridiculousness that was FFXI's gear swap macros. As others have said, I would rather be more focused on combat and my abilities than playing with my wardrobe. If that means fewer situational gear pieces and more sets that are overall generally better for a class/job, I think it's a fair tradeoff.

If you're a Black Mage and don't gear swap: you suck!

I personally just want a final decision by SE as to whether we can gear-swap or not. Currently we can but it's slow and clunky. I would like to see the macros either sped up in 2.0 and full swapping allowed, or a complete cut off of our ability to change gear while in combat alltogether.

The plus side to gear swapping is it opens up almost every piece of gear to a use for players. When you can't swap gear, you will generally only wear the best-in-slot piece for all around play. When swapping is opened, suddenly hands that would be horrible to wear all the time, but are awesome for casting stoneskin in, are a viable piece of gear and desirable by high end players willing to put together these gear sets to further their character.

While the swapping was tedious in XI, I actually really liked it despite how completely silly the idea of it is (I tended to think of it visually as some sort of magical "poof" into another pair of clothes).

But in the end, I'm kind of fine either way... I would just like to see it done one way or another officially and not have to worry about it anymore.

I support gear swapping, it was really good in XI and made the battles much more interesting, dynamic and skillful, it also gave you more purpose as right now its: Get all AF and you're set. There is nothing else to do, no reason to have any other piece of gear. In XI you could build sets and have all these different types of gear for different situations. XIV is very dull, boring and sits in a "1 fits everything" station that I dont enjoy.

NO JUST NO.

I find retarded that RIGHT NOW if you wan to min/max thing you have to do some equip switch pre fight .. i.e put on body MONK AF cast fist of wind, remove MONK AF Body and put your double-melded piece

if I had to do this IN COMBAT it would be a MACROFEST and, honestly, I would find it extremely silly..

just imagine a warrior during a fight that says "hey enemy! Stop right there ! I need the vambraces of Extreme Cuteness for my HUGGLEPUFF to work better"

Absolutely not, hell no, from my cold dead hands, and all that stuff.

NONONONO .. and if you didn't understand:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m109h1COP91qgdhlk.jpg

I really don't know why ppl want this game to be an FFXI HD , go to play XI .. it is still up and more updated than XIV.

Gear swapping is simply riduculous nowadays, it will make more slow the already slow game... So no thanks.

NO!!!!!!!!

Gear swapping was my single most hated mechanic of FFXI.

It's for E-Peen stroking players only. Gotta get that +5 str more for WS only to pump up my damage 2 whole points!

Think you have inventory issues now? wait til you have 25 pieces of gear just for 1 class/job.

NO TO GEAR SWAP!

Gear swaps while fighting. No Thanks....that's all I need to say.

Gear swaps in mid battle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4

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Originally Posted by Ryans

Thank you for being the first person in the thread to bring up actual problems with gear swapping and not statements like

I can definitely see the downsides of gear swapping but when people are only looking at the negative of an issue, they can easily let something that might be helpful pass them by. Not saying that gear swapping is one of those topics, but it doesn't change the fact that not talking about something doesn't make it go away. I'd rather have an informed community than one that blindly follows their hatred to make decisions.

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There are no positives for allowing gear swapping in battle -.- It was the one thing I really hated but was pretty much forced to do in FFXI. All it does is breed elitism and make people carry around even more equipment. I know that as a mage it was worse in FFXI, but for me being a DRG, I was carrying around....
3 body,
4 hand,
3 leg,
3 helm,
6 rings,
3 necklaces,
3 belts,
2 capes,
3 feet, and.....
2 lances......I mean really?

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

There are no positives for allowing gear swapping in battle -.- It was the one thing I really hated but was pretty much forced to do in FFXI. All it does is breed elitism and make people carry around even more equipment. I know that as a mage it was worse in FFXI, but for me being a DRG, I was carrying around....
3 body,
4 hand,
3 leg,
3 helm,
6 rings,
3 necklaces,
3 belts,
2 capes,
3 feet, and.....
2 lances......I mean really?

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Which means you took the time to get/save up for each and every one of those pieces of gear. Which kept you playing, and kept you doing stuff. Something we could really use a lil' more of in XIV.

I'm going to indulge in a moment of knee-jerk gut response and say please no gearswapping mid-battle.

Ever.

Again.

In FFXI I had gear swaps for everything, I had atleast 4 FULL gear sets for SCH, Healing set, Nuking set, Stoneskin set and high int build for helix's, then there is DD full haste build, seperate WS builds depending on modifiers, that could be 3-5 FULL sets for DDs, then tanking, all elemental resist sets, Enmity+ set, defence set, WS set, etc etc.

For people with all classes lvl 50, you would be looking at, atleast 14 full gear sets, then the event gear we always get, AF, crafting mats, DoL gear and dug up things, people complain about full inv and full retainers now, if this comes in everyones inv and retainers will be full of gear, you will not beable to craft or gather because there is no room.

In FFXI I had over 50 pieces for SCH 30 for DRG and 20 for COR (COR was lvled late, didnt get too much gear for it) thats 100 slots for 3 jobs, imagine what it would be like for 7 jobs/classes in FFXIV.

Also lets not forget (if they add it) being 2% off gear haste cap and you is a NOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBB.

[Thanks for the offer, but I will have to pass]

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Originally Posted by Rau

As the title implies, I'm curious to see everyone's opinion of the introduction of this. Gear Swapping macros were common in XI, and with the recent implementation of JSE in XIV, I think its only appropriate that something similar is allowed to be done.

imo Active/Passive Mode is a vestige of Tanaka's FFXIV, and should probably be done away with, but that's besides the point.

Some of these AF pieces are... lacking. However, they have some unique perks that are only needed from time to time (ie, Choral Shirt's enhanced ballads). Nothing is stopping us from putting our weapon away, and then switching, and then switching back, but it's just annoying to have to deal with that.


Thoughts?

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a simple search in the forums and you would have found threads asking for gear swap in mid-battle and you would have seen that 90% are against it.

Please, don't even consider this. I hate macros here right now, they feel sluggish compared to how they were in FFXI.

There just seems to be an extra delay to the macro button..

Plus, most people have gear for all classes with them often. Nobody wants to have to have MORE sets just because we can swap gear.

Also, it's just plain illogical.


In FFXI I was a main BLM, and often carried around near max inventory in gear at all times. As inventory space went up I just found new things to fill it with. I don't want this again, it's an inventory nightmare.

"inventory full of stuff", "blinking", "have to write/use 432890 macros" -> not because of the possibility to change gear, but because of how the game is programmed
"realism" -> lol
"elitism" -> since the general and RPG-defining rule (with or without the possibility to switch gear) is still "your character get better with better gear", I dont see how it is any different

But it allowed (it was one of many possibilities to do it) to keep old gear useful. Again, if you feel it was bad in FFXI, it was because of FFXI (having to do old and boring dynamis to get this awesome Rdm hat when you could do the awesome and newer salvage/nyzul/whateverelse... but they didnt give any hat with refresh). If you're in a game with an awesome 5-years old raid, maybe you'd like to do it and get something useful at the end.
It also allowed to have a long progression (which is all RPG is about : XP, gils, stuff, pokemons captured, etc. It's all progression)
And allowed (again, one of many possibilities) to quickly modify your strategy (getting in defense gear when you're attacked, by example). There are "slow" strategy choices (choosing your job, your food), and "fast" strategy choices (ability like bard songs, hasso/seigan, switch gear, calling another pokemon, etc.). Again, that's an important element in RPG.

The only pertinent reason why the developers don't have to allow gear swap is... because they don't have to. Everything explained above can be reached by many other systems.

Skill: Choose the one equipment set you believe is adequated for the following battle and be punished in case your choice sucked; carry around multiple sets if you want to switch between fights

Lazyness: Carry a shitload of gear and just fire up a macro before anything.

To quote Darth Vader:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo!

Surprised no one quoted this yet, but they did answer this question nearly a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Spoke with Battle Master Matsui to get the lowdown on the whole gear swapping question that's got you all buzzin'. In regards to swapping gear while in battle, since changing certain gear while in battle will change your class in FFXIV, we're not planning to make it possible to swap gear in battle. This direction will not change in the future.

We are focusing instead on making adjustments with the battle-related fixes to ensure that you can battle to your utmost ability without having to rely on changing gear multiple times mid-fight.

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Here's the link to the quote.

^ I think that's a pretty definite no.

this mechanic may be a nice way to make ff11's slow paced battles more interesting but i dont want in ff14. If you want this then just play a mage as you'll be in inactive mode anyway.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

this mechanic may be a nice way to make ff11's slow paced battles more interesting but i dont want in ff14. If you want this then just play a mage as you'll be in inactive mode anyway.

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Unless you actually hit the mob, then you have to wait for it to die or for you to lose hate. But it was a stupid mechanic in XI that should not make it's way into XIV, ever.

-Edited, I was trying to post a macro to change gear, but alas class swaping as aposed to gear swapping seems to be the topic

Originally I had the Macro

/bm off
/eq item1
/eq item2
/bm on