5.08 Patch Notes up

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Originally Posted by Scryar

Did they just forget the ranged dps and rdm? And sam is still behind monk, while offering 0 raidbuffs.

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We don't know how much of a boost SAM will get yet.

The SMN buff isn't really an issue. It'll be the slightest of DPS buffs. Its 100% for QoL. The real issue is set to come in 5.1. If SMN gets reworked and their potencies get increased while RDM stays the same is where there will be an issue. RDM is pretty much only staying relevant because SMN is also a dumpster fire DPS wise lol. FesterRuin change isn't putting out that fire. Its still above RDM atm by a decent amount, but not so much as to make RDM look horrible compared to it.

Ideally SMN and RDM would be brought closer to the middle (with Ranged brought up to shrink the gap between all roles.) at the same time. In the worst possible outcome we'll see SMN reign supreme again as the 98% the damage of BLM caster with a raise and RDM will be shelved until a much later set of patch adjustments zzz and casters become balanced within the role and against other roles for the last 2 patches of the tier. zzz

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Originally Posted by Arale

We don't know how much of a boost SAM will get yet.

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It's kinda easy to tell how much better SAM is going to perform just from the potency buffs.

I think MNK being as strong as it is is largely due to the devs failing to account for how drastically the removal of the haste debuff on Fists of Fire boosted their DPS. Being able to get multiple extra GCDs off during its duration makes the damage boost being reduced totally inconsequential.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...940&height=586

not sure if 100% and tell me if its wrong but SAM being worst melee DPS is big oof

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...940&height=586

not sure if 100% and tell me if its wrong but SAM being worst melee DPS is big oof

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Seems about right where SE wants us.
I'm going to stay samurai because its fun but I given up SE actually giving samurai the dps its suppose to have.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...940&height=586

not sure if 100% and tell me if its wrong but SAM being worst melee DPS is big oof

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*squints eyes* I don't know... I see NIN all the way down there. Granted we'll see how the theory will hold up after the buffs. They seem to be pretty even which kinda of makes me facepalm. *sigh*

edit: fight design and all that.

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Originally Posted by Schan

*squints eyes* I don't know... I see NIN all the way down there. Granted we'll see how the theory will hold up after the buffs.

edit: fight design and all that.

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uuhhh are you looking at the pre 5.08 when nin is near the bottom and not after 5.08 when nin is above SAM?

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Originally Posted by Duskane

uuhhh are you looking at the pre 5.08 when nin is near the bottom and not after 5.08 when nin is above SAM?

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I looked at both. that's why i added they were pretty even afterwards. Sorry.

At least SAM is still easier to play than NIN.

edit: with that said i do wonder how they will balance things now. Is it going to be based off utility for the party or personal difficulty playing the class? because utility wise NIN should be lower than SAM but personal difficulty wise NIN should be doing more dmg than SAM. After all if you're picking a more difficult class people like to be rewarded for their efforts.

It just want to see more NINs and SAMs around. I'm getting fed up of seeing the same jobs everywhere.

Im mad too! see you all when 2B gets here.

Bard proc sound effect changes when

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Incoming healer rage

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...940&height=586

not sure if 100% and tell me if its wrong but SAM being worst melee DPS is big oof

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Seems about right where SE wants us.
I'm going to stay samurai because its fun but I given up SE actually giving samurai the dps its suppose to have.

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(not direct reply)

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Originally Posted by Duskane

uuhhh are you looking at the pre 5.08 when nin is near the bottom and not after 5.08 when nin is above SAM?

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Ummm... incoming dps rage?

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Originally Posted by Rhus

Goodbye Blm from raid teams. Was nice seeing you in there for a while. Raid teams gonna be like ...

RT: hey Ninja, how you doing mate? Been a while. What? No we never hated you. You’re the bestest. What? That guy? Nah we never really liked him anyway, have you seen that stupid hat he wears?

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Why would NIN replace BLM again? -insertPeepoWeird emote-

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Originally Posted by Scryar

Did they just forget the ranged dps and rdm? And sam is still behind monk, while offering 0 raidbuffs.

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It was just prelim changes for 5.1

Thats when major adjustments will come and they said that on the live letter too,shouldnt have expected anything major~

I think personally, I would consider that current buffs may not even be the final(ish) ones jobs get. Given it's not really a major patch, and they're already in the middle of working on the actual major stuff, probably these are just the buffs/changes they knew they could safely make without wildly tipping balance, giving them a little more breathing room to make more fine-tuned adjustments later.

But I'm not an endgame player, so my opinion amounts to little.

I've looked up a NIN who did nearly those rDPS in a fight before the patch: 12.794,3. Now, most of the dmg comes from "attack" which didn't change. There are also other skills which doesn't change. So I only look at the total numbers of the now changed attacks: 5.446 DPS

5.446 out of 12.794 DPS

So yeah, the excel-numbers above are indeed very, very false.

Ya the Ninja potency buffs are, insanely weak imo. Only looking good on paper.

@452 vs a dummy pre patch I would hit 11.5k after 3 minutes.
After patch, same rotation, which I use all of that was buffed before and after, its same exact dps at the 3 minute mark. Maybe hundred difference. So ninja is pretty much still where it was.

Very disappointed with nin still, no where near enough to compete with a blm, or even a mch.
For all its purpose I dont see why even bother buffing it like this, because as provided, this does basically nothing.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...940&height=586

not sure if 100% and tell me if its wrong but SAM being worst melee DPS is big oof

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This shows how awful the balance is. Why are summoner and red mage 1,2k and 1.5k RDPS behind BLM? Assuming a optimal use of their raidbuffs their rdps should be slightly higher then the selfish dps of a blm. Then you can take a way a few hundred dps for their raise and have summoner 200-300 and rdm 300-500 behind black mage in rdps. But the current gap is just ridiculous.

Mmmmm but... But the plan was not to make a complete rework of the Ninja? those are just a small buff not a rework owo

But this is not a buff either. By definition? Ya sure.

But 12.7k dps now doing 12.8k? If you call this a buff then idk what to say, this was a waste of time imo.

Making that full layout in the patch notes for ninja was more impressive then what ninja actually does post patch. Its kind of insulting to ninjas.

The buff to Ninja should be enough for people to stop locking it out of PFs.
This is not going to change that problem.

Ty for those charts pepsi. Pretty much confirms the overall feeling of being crapped on I had when testing it at servers up time.

Sorry, my math was false too. I will go over it again.

Edit: Here we go:

https://i.imgur.com/QTsWKqy.jpg

Looks better now but still not as high as the first numbers (an increase of 600 DPS in this case). So it should be now where SAM was before. But dunno. I think I got everything covered but maybe I still made a mistake somewhere. Guess we'll see actual numbers soon enough.

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Originally Posted by Rhus

Goodbye Blm from raid teams. Was nice seeing you in there for a while. Raid teams gonna be like ...

RT: hey Ninja, how you doing mate? Been a while. What? No we never hated you. You’re the bestest. What? That guy? Nah we never really liked him anyway, have you seen that stupid hat he wears?

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Well this actually means by last ranged spot we are running triple melee with a BLM lol if you wanna be frank. Honestly

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Incoming healer rage

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They were already raging yesterday knowing that there would be no AST changes in this patch.

/shrug

I hope people realize this patch was just meant to be minor tweaks, not significant changes.

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Originally Posted by Scryar

Did they just forget the ranged dps and rdm? And sam is still behind monk, while offering 0 raidbuffs.

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Is low priority is more like it. Look how long it took in Stormblood for RM to see any change at all, every job had seen multiple changes before it finally got something.

Bard TBH they should never have touched for Shadowbringers, obviously they were trying to balance support with addition to DNC but now we are left with 2 somewhat weak support jobs (as much as i love DNC and loved Bard in the past)

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

I hope people realize this patch was just meant to be minor tweaks, not significant changes.

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Why bother at all then? Yes the expansion is still fairly new but still, we could have seen bigger changes by now

Wasn't expecting NIN to be the new MNK or anything but I at least don't feel like a liability anymore.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Why bother at all then? Yes the expansion is still fairly new but still, we could have seen bigger changes by now

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Not sure how long you may have been around but they never make anything more than potency changes in between the x.0, x.1, x.2, etc. patches. The dev team is full aware that potency changes are a band-aid. But anything is better than nothing and it also helps them scale the bigger changes that come in the bigger patches. The worst thing they could do is make sweeping changes to an entire role or rebalance all of the DPS in the middle of a raid tier.

more so a comforter patch for NIN,SAM and SMN
of course RDM and Range DPS could have gotten something as well
but we will see much more changes in 5.1 which is what 3-5 weeks away?

It's a shame for SAM, the buffs were their opportunity to climb to useful-melee levels and it's a miss. If contributing to your team is a big reason to play, why play SAM, which when played well will equal a mediocre monk without any party buffs?
Those saying SAM is super easy probably haven't played it. It gets clunky as you optimize it, you need exact SkS and to keep your rotation on a loop or your cd's misalign and you start losing Tsubame and Meikyo uses. Other classes were made to play more smoothly and had clunk removed. We had some added.
It's also funny seeing Kaeshi: Higanbana get a buff too. I know it's just auto-linked to regular Bana, but do the devs realize that Kaeshi-Bana has literally no applicable use whatsoever?

That said, grumble aside, some ranged have it even worse, others that needed tweaks sorely got none, and a buff is a buff so I'll take it. It shows they do realize we exist so cheers devs :)

I feel like the team is prepping for something big hence not much time put into job changes. They gonna pull another Verminion thing and blow their time on something useless XD.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Why bother at all then? Yes the expansion is still fairly new but still, we could have seen bigger changes by now

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Like someone above said, it has to do with timing. They cant make sweeping changes in the middle of a raid tier as that would cause problems for raiders who invested a lot of time/gil into their gear/melding. Big changes will inevitably come, but only in a big patch with new content and when raid tier has quieted down.

SMN changes come as no real surprise to me, even if I was hoping for a little more. I expect they'll probably extend DoTs in 5.1, which will help make things smoother. I'd still like for Egi Assaults to be a bit less clunky and some adjustments to pet response (particularly the demis during movement), but I somehow doubt we'll see anything significant on that front for some time (if ever).

SMN changes feel more like SE is laughing at us than anything

Quite curious what they'll do for summoner in 5.1, obviously as others said (and they themselves lol) this 5.08 was more of a short term adjustment while the bigger changes come later (so here be the more minor, non-mechanical, part of the change). At least now I can attack something at low HP without feeling like a wet noodle without any sauce :D.

Probably shouldn't do this for all buffs but I thought a concept that might allow job's team buffs and still be fairly strictly balanced and not as tightly bound to "must have" lower DPS.

Sort of a concept I was thinking for the Dark Theme'd Healer Eldritch/Void Necro-like job but say for example they cast curse. Monster is inflicted with curse which increases incoming damage, up to 500 potency over Y seconds duration on an X second cooldown. As you can see it balances itself no matter 4 or 8 members as it's not % based and while it relies on allies to work well and expediently it also actually offers most of it's features back to you as well. So that has some added benefit that you might be able to get some of the skill value yourself, if the skill lasted 20 seconds in a normal party situation that curse gets eaten up in like 2.5 seconds but you're off on your own and after max duration you get up to 80% value. This is obviously not "full value" but it's a lot more potential value confirmed to yourself this way vs a normal party buff skill. And just for the sake of completing this fake skill I'd suggest that once the curse is consumed you get some sort of buff or job currency (like Dark Knight blood) to utilize for other things, in a dark healer's case this might be unlocking some oGCD heals or utility features.

While you'll lose some solo potential value (which is fine I suppose, support jobs and all) you could also have the concept applied to allied buffs too. Like Bard begins to sing a song in radius that increases everyone's damage up to X potency each. Simply adding a player cap to that would then make it under perfect control (so no difference between 4 or 8 man then), say it was like the two nearest allies are invigorated by your song gaining 50% bonus attack damage up to 600 potency for 30 seconds, when the buff is consumed add a notch to the bard's song

Changes the flavor of the skills a bit and probably some team buff like skills shouldn't follow it to keep that full team concept but I felt it might work really neatly and easily balance-able that way for some jobs. Allowing their team skills to not really encroach on their own personal DPS as much (as the first example they might find a way to consume most of that buff themselves given full duration, or they wouldn't be balanced around losing as much personal DPS as their team skill would have fixed upper limits like the bard example). Just adding a bit of consistency and expectation I think.

Did this help the amount of button pressing SMN has to go through?
That was one of the biggest complaints of SMN as far as I've read.
I could have sworn they said they was going to fix that issue in this patch. O_o

Idk if ppl realize but they said that these are temporary bandaid potency buffs to tide us over until October, where then SAM SMN and NIN would get substantial changes, NIN getting Ninjutsu system reworked, SAM getting Shoha reworked, and SMN getting their rotation simplified.

Man i was pissed off for a moment there.

The one day i decided to take a break they release housing! No pre-warning whatsoever. With that said, thankfully it is restricted to FC's only. I will be prepared for next time. :x

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Did this help the amount of button pressing SMN has to go through?
That was one of the biggest complaints of SMN as far as I've read.
I could have sworn they said they was going to fix that issue in this patch. O_o

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Helps a little I suppose when the monster is moments from dying and where you now can more confidently just go full ruin vs trying to manage some other mess (of course I'm talking when they're nearly dead lol, if they can consume the DoT then you'd want to still do that :p).

But yeah I agree that the most common issue I heard was it's a lot of stuff, I think 5.1 will focus more on that. They said for these in-between patches they do mostly potency adjustments, and in the major patches is where they like to do the mechanical changes. Probably in part because they're still exploring options and making sure the numbers work out for each said option.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Man i was pissed off for a moment there.

The one day i decided to take a break they release housing! No pre-warning whatsoever. With that said, thankfully it is restricted to FC's only. I will be prepared for next time. :x

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Hopefully your server isn't so full as to make creating shell FC's to buy up all good plots worth it... (Shell FC being a FC created just for the purpose of meeting the requirement to buy a house, it's one of the ways players were able to own multiple houses on an account).

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Originally Posted by Leathium

Nothing for DRKs yet q-q

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What drk needs fixing? I love it as it is now. It's perfectly fine and would like it stay that way.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Did this help the amount of button pressing SMN has to go through?
That was one of the biggest complaints of SMN as far as I've read.
I could have sworn they said they was going to fix that issue in this patch. O_o

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People say they are bored... Makes it active.
People say too much work... Want it less active.
Idk the logic of this forum.

Because pressing tons of button doesnt make it less boring...
I kinda like the current SMN though except the damage output... the QoL buff is nice but i actually expect a few pptency buff... then again buffing potency would probably make the current savage dps check a joke(which already is with monk,dragon and blm), so...

Can i expect something in 5.1?

People need to calm down. These are just preliminary changes. This is one of the reasons devs don't like to post stuff, because then all the other jobs start complaining, "What about [insert class here] that is still underpowered and is out DPS'd by [insert another class] and has no utility!!!"

Seriously, calm the eff down. More changes are incoming. Sheesh.