SE please tell me 5.08 is comming soon.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Lol, what. I do not see your point. Raid support is not balanced against individual contribution. What is your logic? Not all jobs are there to appeal to all people. People play whatever they feel like, and tend to play Samurai when they don't want to try to contribute to team mitigation, so let the monks be rewarded for their work.

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... did you even bother to read their response? Monk offers raid utility while also dealing higher personal DPS. This makes Samurai completely worthless since its entire purpose is to bring high damage in lieu of utility. Instead, it brings less pDPS than Monk and it laughably outdone in overall contribution by Monk and Dragoon. If Ninja is buffed enough to be slightly below Dragoon, Samurai is effectively a dead job. It absolutely needs help.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Sam needs to stay in the shed. Revenge for Stormblood. It was supposed to be MNK's time to shine.

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What Stormblood were you playing because Samurai was trash back then too?

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Lol, what. I do not see your point. Raid support is not balanced against individual contribution. What is your logic? Not all jobs are there to appeal to all people. People play whatever they feel like, and tend to play Samurai when they don't want to try to contribute to team mitigation, so let the monks be rewarded for their work.

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My logic is you need to learn some reading comprehension skills :P
Let me reiterate so you can understand ok?~
*Ahem*
MONK DOES MORE PDPS(personal DPS which means their individual damage) THAN A SAMURAI WHILE ALSO PROVIDING THE RAID WITH A 5% DMG BUFF AND ALSO 15% HEALING BUFF.
MNK GIVE MORE RDPS.
DRAGOON ALSO OUTDPS or RIVAL SAMURAI DPD IN CERTAIN FIGHTS SUCH AS LEVIATHAN.
understand now?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

What Stormblood were you playing because Samurai was trash back then too?

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The one where SAM was unga bunga DPS monster and MNK was a turtle.

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Originally Posted by Gula

The one where SAM was unga bunga DPS monster and MNK was a turtle.

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You can't be serious...
The only time samurai was powerful was 4.0 to...4.1.
After that once mnk got the free GL from wind tackle mnk was as you put it. "Unga bunga DPS monster" so yeah...what stormblood were you playing?

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Originally Posted by Gula

The one where SAM was unga bunga DPS monster and MNK was a turtle.

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What game where you playing lol SAM was garbage in SB hence why they weren’t wanted in PF

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

My logic is you need to learn some reading comprehension skills :P
Let me reiterate so you can understand ok?~
*Ahem*
MONK DOES MORE PDPS(personal DPS which means their individual damage) THAN A SAMURAI WHILE ALSO PROVIDING THE RAID WITH A 5% DMG BUFF AND ALSO 15% HEALING BUFF.
MNK GIVE MORE RDPS.
DRAGOON ALSO OUTDPS or RIVAL SAMURAI DPD IN CERTAIN FIGHTS SUCH AS LEVIATHAN.
understand now?

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Yes, and that is perfectly fine. Samurais are choosing to not bother about total team DPS or mitigation; it has always been a greedy, easy job. That is exactly what it is there for, and why people who play it tend to get hit with avoidable AOEs at such a relatively high frequency. It doesn't bring "higher damage in lieu of utility." It brings a high, more straightforward floor. And that is perfectly fine; it doesn't make Samurai worthless, because some people will go further with Samurai than with Monk. But it appropriately has a lower total ceiling of maximum effective activity. It shouldn't outdamage monk. Your logic doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Yes, and that is perfectly fine. Samurais are choosing to not bother about total team DPS or mitigation; it has always been a greedy, easy job. That is exactly what it is there for, and why people who play it tend to get hit with avoidable AOEs at such a relatively high frequency. It doesn't bring "higher damage in lieu of utility." It brings a high, more straightforward floor. And that is perfectly fine; it doesn't make Samurai worthless, because some people will go further with Samurai than with Monk. But it appropriately has a lower total ceiling of maximum effective activity. It shouldn't outdamage monk. Your logic doesn't work.

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I generally believe you're trolling at this point. First of all mnk isn't a hard job.
In fact, It's easier or about as easy as samurai now.
By your logic smn should outdps blm, nin should outdps every melee.
Great logic bud.

I read they gonna buff SMN dps next patch. I hope that's true. SMN does not feel rewarding enough for all the troubles. Some potency increase would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Yes, and that is perfectly fine. Samurais are choosing to not bother about total team DPS or mitigation; it has always been a greedy, easy job. That is exactly what it is there for, and why people who play it tend to get hit with avoidable AOEs at such a relatively high frequency. It doesn't bring "higher damage in lieu of utility." It brings a high, more straightforward floor. And that is perfectly fine; it doesn't make Samurai worthless, because some people will go further with Samurai than with Monk. But it appropriately has a lower total ceiling of maximum effective activity. It shouldn't outdamage monk. Your logic doesn't work.

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You need to learn what balance means.

Difficulty isn’t anything to do with balance nor is the mentality of the player playing it, you clearly have something against SAMs as people who play BLM and MCH are playing selfish jobs also lol.

Get out of here with this concept. SAM has to be competitive like every other job needs to.

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Originally Posted by ksuyen

I read they gonna buff SMN dps next patch. I hope that's true. SMN does not feel rewarding enough for all the troubles. Some potency increase would be greatly appreciated.

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Yep!

This is per Bayohne on a recent Q&A Liveletter:

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Q3:
Summoner has many buttons to press and is very busy. Additionally, it bothers me that refreshing DoTs at the timing you activate Dreadwyrm Trance/Firebird Trance causes DoTs to fall off for a few seconds even when using Tri-Disaster. Are there any plans to reduce the amount of button pressing or the adjusting the duration of DoTs?

A3:
The dev. team is working on adjusting the difficulty of needing to press so many buttons. Regarding DoTs, we've received lots of feedback saying that players would like DoT durations extended, but we are instead considering reworking the potency of Ruin spells to be higher dependent on the number of DoTs inflicted on the target.

This is still only being considered, but if we decide that it would be effective, we will implement it in 5.08.

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Note that it might not come in 5.08, but we're about to find out.

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Originally Posted by Drayos

You need to learn what balance means.

Difficulty isn’t anything to do with balance

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You've been saying that in multiple parts of the forums for some time now. And certainly there is nuance to take in, and barrier to entry and optimized potential ["difficulty" if you will] aren't the whole story, and it wouldn't be desirable for those to be the only elements, but it is also certain that the way you want it to work doesn't explain the existing situation and stated intentions. It's not everything, but it is something (indeed, breadth of responsibility is another point in Monk's corner), and we can't ignore the evidence that monk and its relative place are working as intended.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Yep!

This is per Bayohne on a recent Q&A Liveletter:



Note that it might not come in 5.08, but we're about to find out.



You've been saying that in multiple parts of the forums for some time now. And certainly there is nuance to take in, and barrier to entry and optimized potential ["difficulty" if you will] aren't the whole story, and it wouldn't be desirable for those to be the only elements, but it is also certain that the way you want it to work doesn't explain the existing situation and stated intentions. It's not everything, but it is something (indeed, breadth of responsibility is another point in Monk's corner), and we can't ignore the evidence that monk and its relative place are working as intended.

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Lol. Are we really arguing this one? Nothing gives evidence it’s working as intended either. Maybe wait a patch or two to call that one you could be nerfed in 2 days for all you know. if anything THeres more evidence they arent working as intended then are.

If they intended Difficulty/Optimisation to be a balancing feature, why are they simplifying jobs every Patch left right and centre?.. Because they Dont intend to enforce a Difficult Playstyle upon players to make harder content feel more welcoming to them.

they've Simplified Monk twice over the course of this expansion, if anything them being at the top Pretty much proves Difficulty is nothing to do with balance, Im Sorry but Monks Easy to play now, they've ripped out the Deep Optimisation of STBs rotation, they've again Made it easier to hit positionals While Making GL Impossible to drop. monk Has Quatered in Difficulty since the drop of SHB.

u'd be getting out DPS'd If this was any sort of true, as u are no where near the optimisation depth or Complexity of Ninja and Summoner, on top of that. theres Plenty just as Difficult to play, i'd argue SAM is Just as hard as Monk now lol.

yoshi.p has already stated this. that he intends to SImplify mechanics to make content more approachable by players, Why would he go to the effort to Simplify these Jobs if they then pushed Difficult Jobs Upon us as a Entry barrier into content, it makes 0 Sense. u got Changes in one patch after they royally screwed up Monk. we've not seen any patchs come up to go back on any buffs that took place, 3/4s of the community are screaming to nerf Monk, Including big Streamers who are recognised by SE as they've even flown them out to their events.. u really think u arent gonna get nerfed when EVERYONES telling em to nerf monk.. u wont fly under the radar twice bro.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Yes, and that is perfectly fine. Samurais are choosing to not bother about total team DPS or mitigation; it has always been a greedy, easy job. That is exactly what it is there for, and why people who play it tend to get hit with avoidable AOEs at such a relatively high frequency. It doesn't bring "higher damage in lieu of utility." It brings a high, more straightforward floor. And that is perfectly fine; it doesn't make Samurai worthless, because some people will go further with Samurai than with Monk. But it appropriately has a lower total ceiling of maximum effective activity. It shouldn't outdamage monk. Your logic doesn't work.

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Not this again, difficulty should never be a part of balance formula.
Difficulty is subjective and difficult to measure, it vary from fight to fight and player to player. The boss fight in this game is very predictable, the more a player fight the same boss the easier it get. Difficulty also vary with team composition and their player skill. When balancing jobs, it should only consider when the job is being played by the player of equal skill

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Originally Posted by Gula

The one where SAM was unga bunga DPS monster and MNK was a turtle.

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Really? Is that why Monk slaughtered it in 4.1 while Dragoon and Ninja were the rDPS kings that Samurai couldn't touch? Samurai was viable but its "unga bunga DPS" was a myth.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

You've been saying that in multiple parts of the forums for some time now. And certainly there is nuance to take in, and barrier to entry and optimized potential ["difficulty" if you will] aren't the whole story, and it wouldn't be desirable for those to be the only elements, but it is also certain that the way you want it to work doesn't explain the existing situation and stated intentions. It's not everything, but it is something (indeed, breadth of responsibility is another point in Monk's corner), and we can't ignore the evidence that monk and its relative place are working as intended.

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If Monk had been "working as intended," why did they panic almost immediately after launch? They literally scrapped half their design concepts because Monk was the least played melee prior to 5.05. That says a LOT considering Ninja was still hot garbage. Regardless, Samurai contributing nothing to the party is precisely why their damage being so low makes no sense. Damage is supposed to be their contribution yet Monk and Dragoon laugh at them. It just doesn't work hence why they are presently the third least played job in Savage.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Sam needs to stay in the shed. Revenge for Stormblood. It was supposed to be MNK's time to shine.

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Revenge for Stormblood? SAM was never great in Stormblood (4.0 to 4.1 barely counts) and by the end, there was little reason to even play it.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

You've been saying that in multiple parts of the forums for some time now. And certainly there is nuance to take in, and barrier to entry and optimized potential ["difficulty" if you will] aren't the whole story, and it wouldn't be desirable for those to be the only elements, but it is also certain that the way you want it to work doesn't explain the existing situation and stated intentions. It's not everything, but it is something (indeed, breadth of responsibility is another point in Monk's corner), and we can't ignore the evidence that monk and its relative place are working as intended.

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Why is BLM always top DPS again?

Also please stop talking about game balance, you obviously don't understand it.

Difficulty (mainly barrier to entry but also a bit of optimized potential) should not affect the viability and strength of a Job. If it did? Then there would be NO REASON to play a weaker Job. Who cares if its easier when, if you put the time you are going to put into it into a more difficult job, you'd just be doing everything better.

What does Monk "working as intended" have to do with SAM being weak or the fact that Monk is doing more personal damage than a Job that's whole purpose is to be "selfish" and only focus on doing personal damage? Monk may be working as intended now, after massive buffs, but that doesn't mean Samurai is.

Monk's "relative place" is not working as intended, if it was then they wouldn't have stated they know SAM needs buffs and they are going to adjust it for 5.08 and 5.1.

Seriously dude.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

SAM seems perfectly fine to me honestly. Buff Nin.

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I've been a SAM apologist for the last few weeks now saying that it's damage is fine but after getting to lv80 and properly gearing up, I do see what issues people have with it's damage. And I've always been the one saying that "numbers aren't everything as long as I can get through content." It could be buffed a bit to be completely honest.

And Shoha is a waste of time for a lv80 skill. You literally have to sit there and let it charge while you could pumping out more damage instead only for a maximum of 500 potency. It's disappointing as hell and hardly ever gets used unless it's during a boss transition or something. It's a shame because it's such a cool looking attack...it's just not worth using and makes SAM feel very clunky.

I also think that Hissatu:Guren and Hissatu:Senei need a cooldown reduction or a skill effect similar to RDM's Manifaction that completely removes the cooldown for certain skills.

So remind me again which class is getting buff tomorrow aside from SAM?

NIN,SAM is guaranteed buffed damage wise
SMN gameplay wise maybe number but not sure
I do hope this 3 is not all though

Top NINs not even using Tin Chi Jin anymore in savage content outside the opener. Mesui is being completely ignored for the most part. You know your class is wonky when players are literally dodging iconic skills to maximize DPS. All the while being the least damaging melee by such a large margin..

SMN is also a bit wonky to play right now, but they said they'd do something in 5.08 to alleviate some of it. SAM mains, I feel for you I really do. You were neglected for a whole expansion, but while you might get some buffs here in a few days, I wouldn't expect anything too crazy from SE going by their track record.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Top NINs not even using Tin Chi Jin anymore in savage content outside the opener. Mesui is being completely ignored for the most part. You know your class is wonky when players are literally dodging iconic skills to maximize DPS. All the while being the least damaging melee by such a large margin..

SMN is also a bit wonky to play right now, but they said they'd do something in 5.08 to alleviate some of it. SAM mains, I feel for you I really do. You were neglected for a whole expansion, but while you might get some buffs here in a few days, I wouldn't expect anything too crazy from SE going by their track record.

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Thanks, I just wished for a qol/potency buff to help the SAM+NIN+SMN+RDM comp....

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Top NINs not even using Tin Chi Jin anymore in savage content outside the opener. Mesui is being completely ignored for the most part. You know your class is wonky when players are literally dodging iconic skills to maximize DPS. All the while being the least damaging melee by such a large margin..

SMN is also a bit wonky to play right now, but they said they'd do something in 5.08 to alleviate some of it. SAM mains, I feel for you I really do. You were neglected for a whole expansion, but while you might get some buffs here in a few days, I wouldn't expect anything too crazy from SE going by their track record.

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Yup. Last time when SE threw us a bone, we were only slightly above mnk.
And I really do mean slightly. SE REALLY doesn't want sam to do blm numbers which is why sam is always in the bad spot it is in.
Yoshi said it himself that he basically doesn't want sam to do blm numbers because sam is more moblie.

I'm fine with BLM hogging the top DPS spot. It's THE iconic damage dealer class of the entire Final Fantasy franchise, it only makes sense for it to be the best.
SAM should be firmly in the second place, for the simple reason that it offers nothing but damage.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Lol, what. I do not see your point. Raid support is not balanced against individual contribution. What is your logic? Not all jobs are there to appeal to all people. People play whatever they feel like, and tend to play Samurai when they don't want to try to contribute to team mitigation, so let the monks be rewarded for their work.

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This would be different, perhaps, if SAM offered utility to their party members but they don't.
This is why we have DNC, who is the lowest in the DPS ranks because they are 24/7 supporting someone
and the the occasional AoE DPS buff aka Tech Step then the heal + shield they have.

SAM has nothing, and is suppose to be a selfish DPS. It needs better DPS than
the ones who are giving out utility. It makes no sense nor is it fair.