People wanting a support class. Why?

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Originally Posted by gman1311

But I want to know, what do you actually want from a support class?

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There are some jobs that would currently benefit from being in such a role and the hope is that those roles, in addition to any new jobs that would enter the role, at least for me, would be able to provide their intended or projected effects without having to worry about balancing them to fit specifically within the confines of the DPS, Healer, and Tank roles.

Don't need a support role
I just want more emphasis on support on jobs like Nin,Rdm and bard

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Originally Posted by gman1311

Well let me ask another question then. Is Dancer the support class you’ve always wanted in the game, I.E you feel like you’re being helpful?

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No. BRD filled that niche and they fooked it by throwing some of its utility to DNC.
We already had a job that rallied our party, they gutted it and gave it DNC.
So nah, and DNC isn't all that great, it's fun...Don't get me wrong but pretty much
the moment you unlock the job, you saw everything it pretty much has to offer.
I said in a post a day or two again, 4.0 BRD was what I was looking for.

Sooo, I rather them had made a melee healing dancer
(Don't ask me how, because at this point I don't with the battle structure)
or a normal healer because it's doing what BRD has already been doing.

Someone up in this joint needs to be a damned debuffer.
Attack down / Def Down / Magic Res Down. (BRD had foes and it got fooked.)
They could even make AST that with its cards.
It was pretty much our Time Mage too and they ruined it too.

Someone sing a song or dance a Haste? MP? Healing AoE? Song or Dance please?
But again, games core system is limiting us. We're getting to the point that it's so limiting
we're getting tanks and heals to be the exact same because any foot out the creativity box
gets shot out because of balancing issues. It's kinda sad.

Why would I want a support? Hmm...

When you play a difficult support class to the highest degree, it feels like nearly the same complexity as playing (or at the very least, knowing well) every single job in your party, with your own mechanics atop and alongside, especially if the lead or most necessary rate of output (be it damage, healing, or mitigation) over a brief duration at any given time in a fight varies between your party members frequently but in a way that can be predicted with enough knowledge of both the jobs in questions, and their actual players. I guess that's the big thing. It's like having a finger in every flavor of pie. It suits dabblers and control freaks alike.

This game has no true support jobs. That's what people want, a true support job.

Support classes in other MMOs are usually ones that are purely focused on buffing, debuffing, and offering utility. For example, having refreshable permanent stuns or dazes/sleeps to cast on enemies so they're out of the fight until the group is ready to attack them. Being able to tank, heal, or buff all simultaneously in an effective manner but at a reduced capacity, like being able to heal a single target powerfully enough that the real healer doesn't have to do it on specific occasions or applying an invulnerability buff to a party member similar to an FFXIV's tank invuln. Buffing damage or attack speed a very large amount rather than personally doing DPS on its own. Debuffing enemies by removing buffs from them or heavily reducing their damage, attack speed, etc, or applying specific debuffs that increase the amount of damage they take from specific party members or damage types.

The reason FFXIV doesn't currently have any true support jobs is because there is no niche for them. The content in this game is braindead from a mechanical standpoint (stand in specific places et al). Other MMOs have them because they have raids or endgame fights that involve things like needed to keep one enemy dazed or stunned for most a pull (like an enemy that might buff all the others around it as soon as it "wakes up", so you want to kill the rest before dealing with it), or fights that are pure DPS burn fights where you wouldn't even bring a traditional healer and instead bring a class that can just raise the party's damage to extreme amounts, or bosses that put buffs on themselves similar to the enrage buffs in FFXIV that have to be cleansed/removed periodically.

One of my favorite examples is Lord of the Rings Online and Loremaster. They were basically required for a lot of endgame content and even regular instances because the dungeon/fight design in that game incorporated a lot of "captain" type enemies that needed to be kept out of the fight or giant, powerful enemies that you weren't meant to kill at all and just avoid while going through the dungeon. There is no equivalent to that in FFXIV, dungeons are purely tank and spank here.

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Originally Posted by YojimboM

The reason FFXIV doesn't currently have any true support jobs is because there is no niche for them. The content in this game is braindead from a mechanical standpoint (stand in specific places et al). Other MMOs have them because they have raids or endgame fights that involve things like needed to keep one enemy dazed or stunned for most a pull (like an enemy that might buff all the others around it as soon as it "wakes up", so you want to kill the rest before dealing with it), or fights that are pure DPS burn fights where you wouldn't even bring a traditional healer and instead bring a class that can just raise the party's damage to extreme amounts, or bosses that put buffs on themselves similar to the enrage buffs in FFXIV that have to be cleansed/removed periodically.

One of my favorite examples is Lord of the Rings Online and Loremaster. They were basically required for a lot of endgame content and even regular instances because the dungeon/fight design in that game incorporated a lot of "captain" type enemies that needed to be kept out of the fight or giant, powerful enemies that you weren't meant to kill at all and just avoid while going through the dungeon. There is no equivalent to that in FFXIV, dungeons are purely tank and spank here.

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I get in arguments all the time with my buddy about this kind of thing all the time. :p I always confuse normal raids with trials, but he and the game calls them raids, but I always think they are trials, and we always go back and forth. I'm all like "it's just a boss on a platform this is a trial, what exactly is the difference between this and a trial?" He always goes that he "likes it this way anyway - skip all the trash straight to the boss". I would love to see some actual raids that require outside mechanics, like adds, or something else. Extra enemies doesn't always have to be filler, sometimes it can be a good aspect of a fight, even SWTOR had more detailed raids, in my opinion, and I haven't played that game really in like 4 years.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

what exactly is the difference between this and a trial?

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Reward structure, including lockout.

Raids are also released as a set. Alliance raids can be a set of 3 bosses in one instance. Normal raids can be a set of 4 bosses in 4 instances.

Trials are released standalone. One boss, one instance.

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Originally Posted by linay

Reward structure, including lockout.

Raids are also released as a set. Alliance raids can be a set of 3 bosses in one instance. Normal raids can be a set of 4 bosses in 4 instances.

Trials are released standalone. One boss, one instance.

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Yeah, I get that. Mostly me and my friend joking around. I'd like to see more detailed raids, the bosses themselves can be more interesting in this than other games, but I don't think they are really worthy of being called raids. Not enough content, in my opinion. Great opportunities to make game mechanics that could actually benefit having some sort of support class. Game isn't designed like that though, so I suppose more trash would literally just be more time wasters. Just focus on doing as much DPS as possible, and do just that. It seems the game is getting more and more based around that too, it's probably easier to balance.

Another question, are some of you disappointed with the amount debuffs players can use? We only have like two, Reprisal and trick attack. Everything else is crowd control (sleep, stun, heavy, ect)

The game's structure as well as how the fights are designed pretty much make any meaningful support impossible to implement. Even our sparse CC options stop working in 50 content for the most part and you don't need it in the overworld. They would have to redesign combat from the ground up again to make space for a pure support role and then there would be the balance issues which after 3 expansions now I think they just don't have the chops to handle that if they were to try.

I'd love to have a pure support job, but as others stated, I doubt it would ever work in the current game. No, DNC and BRD don't count. I would define support as something that mainly contributes to group DPS with buffs / debuffs, with barely (if any) pdps... with current combat design this already makes it highly unlikely that we'll get anything like this (at least in DPS role).

AST comes the closest with cards, but due to solo reasons they still have their dps spells, which has to contribute a certain major amount of their total damage.

It was a barely working and many times flawed concept in other games too. Niche support / healer classes that could barely do anything by themselves, but were highly coveted for group content. And I miss every moment of it.

Soon : Limited Class - Chemist

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Originally Posted by gman1311

Well let me ask another question then. Is Dancer the support class you’ve always wanted in the game, I.E you feel like you’re being helpful?

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Far from it. Like RDM and BRD, you only in my opinion have a token amount of support. nothing like the games of old. For me I don't really think of them as support roles, but because that's what I've always enjoyed that's what I play.

Many other posts have already covered the reasons I enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by SilverObi

The game's structure as well as how the fights are designed pretty much make any meaningful support impossible to implement. Even our sparse CC options stop working in 50 content for the most part and you don't need it in the overworld. They would have to redesign combat from the ground up again to make space for a pure support role and then there would be the balance issues which after 3 expansions now I think they just don't have the chops to handle that if they were to try.

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Sadly the age of pure support is long over. Not to long ago I made a post about how MMORPGs have changed over the years for many reasons in that and for the above reasons we won't see a buffer/debuffer in this game. When I say buffer I don't mean a wimpy 10% damage increase I mean a class that could increase attack speed, Increase damage, Increase mana regen, reduce incoming damage, Slow mob attack speed. And do those things significantly.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Soon : Limited Class - Chemist

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LOL you ain't right! I can only imagine the anger at the next healer we get being a limited job.

Support is something with a lot of potential to benefit a party and people like the idea of helping the party do better and get satisfaction that way rather than doing the most damage.

Support is kinda weak in this game compared to others due to how it is designed, but in FFXI, people would invite a BRD, COR or GEO specifically because of the buffs they can bring. In my static when I used to play, my COR would be brought because 2 of its rolls could greatly improve the rate they could weapon skill and it meant zerg mechanics were quicker. In exp parties it could actually give an exp buff. It could also improve accuracy (which is not an issue here) and that could make exp parties go a lot smoother.

Some support roles are good for crowd control, this was great in things like SWTOR, the dirty fighting build made this good fun. CC exists in this game, but is rarely needed.

Then I play games like Monster Hunter and see very few people actually role the Hunting Horn. The support job of that game. I always feel like it's one of those things where it's something people think they want but won't actually enjoy it when they get it; because it won't turn out to be their vision of it.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Then I play games like Monster Hunter and see very few people actually role the Hunting Horn. The support job of that game. I always feel like it's one of those things where it's something people think they want but won't actually enjoy it when they get it; because it won't turn out to be their vision of it.

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I think its safe to say that people clamoring for supports currently are people that actually played supports in the past. But yes, in the end supports were always a minority, usually due to the strict restrictions on solo and leveling issues associated with them (which probably contributed to the eventual death of the class genre).

Also, while I'm not exactly home in MHW, isn't the hunting horn sort of a meme due to them being able to deal out a handy SMACKDOWN themselves aside from buffing?

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Originally Posted by Nyvara

LOL you ain't right! I can only imagine the anger at the next healer we get being a limited job.

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I have my bag of popcorn ready

The problem is, as with any outlier in an MMO, it either becomes mandatory or obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Also, while I'm not exactly home in MHW, isn't the hunting horn sort of a meme due to them being able to deal out a handy SMACKDOWN themselves aside from buffing?

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It's somewhat too clunky to use and playing the songs on the horn actually draws the aggro of the monster and hits you straight out of it, interrupting and ruining your play.
And you have to play the notes specifically for the songs, which means you often do sup-par DPS.

Some argue it's because of that which makes it bad, some say it's because its labeled as a 'support weapon'.

The popularity of the weapon was nearly always on the last place though, with only about 1% of the hunter population using Hunting Horn.

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Originally Posted by gman1311

Another question, are some of you disappointed with the amount debuffs players can use? We only have like two, Reprisal and trick attack. Everything else is crowd control (sleep, stun, heavy, ect)

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We do still have support debuffs like Addle (caster role ability) and Feint (melee role ability) that both reduce main stats, and I think they do tend to see a little bit of use in savage. I think the biggest issue though is that it's not a main feature.

Best example I ever saw of a "debuffer" in an MMORPG was the Archon soul for the Mage class in Rift, which worked by debuffing itself to give buffs to allies while applying debuffs to enemies that gave buffs to itself that would counteract the debuffs from the group buffs it provided. It wasn't the best damage dealer by any stretch, but it never needed to be with what buffs it brought to the table.

The biggest problem wasn't its damage, but rather the playerbase. Rift was a game that truly had four roles, and this new support role was a truly foreign concept to the thousands of WoW refugees (sounds familiar) flooding the game after the aptly-named Cataclysm expansion. They saw the Bard soul for the Rogue class as a good enough example of a support, saw the buffs, saw the heals it had and collectively believed that the support role in Rift was intended to be an off-healer when neither the support role nor the Archon soul was designed exclusively for that purpose, meaning that particular subclass suffered because of how that player majority perceived the game.

Whenever someone brings up the idea of support classes or support jobs, Rift's Archon always comes to mind for me: an amazing concept that no one understands because of how foreign it is to the vast majority of players so used to the role trinity.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

You can have that but you have to accept dps on par with a tank.

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Deal. Gimme.

Actually, Dancer does about a teeny bit more damage than Gunbreaker, so maybe it would come out as an improvement for tank damage.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Then I play games like Monster Hunter and see very few people actually role the Hunting Horn. The support job of that game. I always feel like it's one of those things where it's something people think they want but won't actually enjoy it when they get it; because it won't turn out to be their vision of it.

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mostly because hunt hunting buffs aren’t that great, plus you got to stop what you’re doing and play a song.

Although I'd love a pure support class, I think it's highly unlikely in ff14 as it's built. I think the best possible compromise would be to make healers a 'support' job (since technically healing is a type of support :P) and give them the tools for it.

Since a lot of comments say they're only healing 10-30% of the time, if they had a range of buffing and debuffing skills they could spend their extra time doing that instead of spamming 1 dps spell. I think it could make healers a lot more enjoyable for those who really dislike being a 'green dps'.

And unlike dps who spend their time with a mob targeted, healers are used to changing targets a lot so probably less annoying for them to weave in buffs and debuffs than for a dps to have to switch to targeting party members in the middle of a fight.

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Originally Posted by seraseth

Although I'd love a pure support class, I think it's highly unlikely in ff14 as it's built. I think the best possible compromise would be to make healers a 'support' job (since technically healing is a type of support :P) and give them the tools for it.

Since a lot of comments say they're only healing 10-30% of the time, if they had a range of buffing and debuffing skills they could spend their extra time doing that instead of spamming 1 dps spell. I think it could make healers a lot more enjoyable for those who really dislike being a 'green dps'.

And unlike dps who spend their time with a mob targeted, healers are used to changing targets a lot so probably less annoying for them to weave in buffs and debuffs than for a dps to have to switch to targeting party members in the middle of a fight.

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This sounds like an excellent idea. If there was to be a support type role, healer fits the bill more than any dps job. Not a bad idea for this 4th healer job people keep talking about.

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Originally Posted by gman1311

mostly because hunt hunting buffs aren’t that great, plus you got to stop what you’re doing and play a song.

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If you're stopping what you're doing to play a song, you're doing it wrong. Hunting Horn is a very aggressive weapon where you play your songs as you attack. Your songs are actually your strongest attacks.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Then I play games like Monster Hunter and see very few people actually role the Hunting Horn. The support job of that game. I always feel like it's one of those things where it's something people think they want but won't actually enjoy it when they get it; because it won't turn out to be their vision of it.

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I main HH and I love it.

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Originally Posted by Aladire

To me, DNC is not a support class. It is a dps class that instead of having DOTS or multiple combos, it is a class that does a couple attacks till it can do 1 of the two combo that result in big aoe damage that also shoot a buff to others and self.

A support class, if comparing to other MMOs, is one that is spending time putting buffs and debuffs on targets and then working to keep them up while occasionally throwing out some damage or heals. So, while your hps and dps is super low, if you add up the increase of the whole party and raid, your dps and hps is actually on par with others or even higher. It is a class designed to help eased the fight with said mechanics.

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Pretty much this.

Personally, dancer doesn't feel like a support class. It is, as is the case with other jobs, a class focused on damage (being a DPS and all...) with a flavor of support to it. If DNC is 3 parts DPS and 1 part support, a "support" class would be the inverse, 3 parts support and 1 part DPS.

Give me a support class with abilities to haste PC skills, slow enemy skills, regen, mute enemies from casting spells, cast float to avoid certain 'earth-based' AOE's, cast Demi/Gravity (possibly this as an ultimate type skill that deals 25% dmg), cast stop on all enemies (maybe as an AOE interrupt), teleport self and other PC's around battlefield, cast Return as a Limitbreak (which would reverse time by 60-120 seconds and give a soft reset for bosses before a wipe), cast Old on an enemy to add stacks of debuffs (kinda like bosses do to us), cast Quick (make a PC be uninterruptable for 2-3 skills or 15 secs), and how about a Banish type spell that wipes trash mobs (set up to empty the MP pool like Flare with BLM). Hmmm...

I know! Give me a friggin Time Mage SE!!!!!

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

Give me a support class with abilities to haste PC skills, slow enemy skills, regen, mute enemies from casting spells, cast float to avoid certain 'earth-based' AOE's, cast Demi/Gravity (possibly this as an ultimate type skill that deals 25% dmg), cast stop on all enemies (maybe as an AOE interrupt), teleport self and other PC's around battlefield, cast Return as a Limitbreak (which would reverse time by 60-120 seconds and give a soft reset for bosses before a wipe), cast Old on an enemy to add stacks of debuffs (kinda like bosses do to us), cast Quick (make a PC be uninterruptable for 2-3 skills or 15 secs), and how about a Banish type spell that wipes trash mobs (set up to empty the MP pool like Flare with BLM). Hmmm...

I know! Give me a friggin Time Mage SE!!!!!

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So... a bunch of either useless, niche skills or utterly game breaking spells.

Blue mage is that way ----------------------->

In all seriousness the only reason people want a "pure support class" is because they want to be the Princess Bard from ffxi again. Where every group wants them (yet, paradoxically very few people wanted to play it) and everyone showers them with praise because they park their butt on the other side of the arena and do the equivalent of:

https://pics.me.me/im-helping-35445714.png

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Originally Posted by Razard

So... a bunch of either useless, niche skills or utterly game breaking spells.

Blue mage is that way ----------------------->

In all seriousness the only reason people want a "pure support class" is because they want to be the Princess Bard from ffxi again. Where every group wants them (yet, paradoxically very few people wanted to play it) and everyone showers them with praise because they park their butt on the other side of the arena and do the equivalent of:

https://pics.me.me/im-helping-35445714.png

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I don't know what princess bride class you're talking about, but I don't see how it would be game breaking skills. The purpose of a support class' I think' would be to not deal hardly any dps and instead buff the PCs and debuff the mobs. Healer jobs already have limited dps. Support would, in my mind, be different than a healer because it would have either one very weak heal (mostly to supplement a real healer) or no heals at all (since we already have a job that has the regen skill).

I could see how if done correctly, a support job would be a way to change up the usual recipe of tank/dps/heal. If done incorrectly, it could be a huge disaster and either useless or boring.

I would think that trading self dps for either increasing other PC dmg or decreasing mob dmg as fair. Granted the rewinding time would be a bit of a cheap tactic, maybe... Only one way to find out :)

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Originally Posted by HumanNinjaToo

I know! Give me a friggin Time Mage SE!!!!!

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Had one. Was AST.
Got fooked, sorry friend.
Closest thing as we were going to get there.
(Yes, still a salty AST player.)

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Originally Posted by Razard

So... a bunch of either useless, niche skills or utterly game breaking spells.

Blue mage is that way ----------------------->

In all seriousness the only reason people want a "pure support class" is because they want to be the Princess Bard from ffxi again. Where every group wants them (yet, paradoxically very few people wanted to play it) and everyone showers them with praise because they park their butt on the other side of the arena and do the equivalent of:

https://pics.me.me/im-helping-35445714.png

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This is true!

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Originally Posted by seraseth

Although I'd love a pure support class, I think it's highly unlikely in ff14 as it's built. I think the best possible compromise would be to make healers a 'support' job (since technically healing is a type of support :P) and give them the tools for it.

Since a lot of comments say they're only healing 10-30% of the time, if they had a range of buffing and debuffing skills they could spend their extra time doing that instead of spamming 1 dps spell. I think it could make healers a lot more enjoyable for those who really dislike being a 'green dps'.

And unlike dps who spend their time with a mob targeted, healers are used to changing targets a lot so probably less annoying for them to weave in buffs and debuffs than for a dps to have to switch to targeting party members in the middle of a fight.

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pretty much why I liked playing AST, was about as close as we're going to get I feel to anything that'd be beyond "slightly buff party". Though I'd kill for a Green Mage, make it into a healer with debuffs/buffs and you'd never get me to play anything else.

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Originally Posted by Razard

So... a bunch of either useless, niche skills or utterly game breaking spells.

Blue mage is that way ----------------------->

In all seriousness the only reason people want a "pure support class" is because they want to be the Princess Bard from ffxi again. Where every group wants them (yet, paradoxically very few people wanted to play it) and everyone showers them with praise because they park their butt on the other side of the arena and do the equivalent of:

https://pics.me.me/im-helping-35445714.png

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Don't know what game you played. BRD was a more active job than any other job in XI. You were constantly doing things and repositioning, while other jobs just auto-attacked most of the time.

I would like to see a full support class on here but I don't think this game is really cut out for that. They use the trinity of DPS/Healer/Tank very well and I dont think this type of game would support it. Believe me, I would like to have one (I am not cool with a tank, DPS is kind of boring and healer is okay) like how Elder Tales (Log Horizon) has Enchanter (Off-topic, I hope that one day somebody or any company would make Elder Tale into a reality one day).

Dancer is okay but I don't see it at all as great support like how BRD was.

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Originally Posted by NekiUno

I would like to see a full support class on here but I don't think this game is really cut out for that. They use the trinity of DPS/Healer/Tank very well and I dont think this type of game would support it. Believe me, I would like to have one (I am not cool with a tank, DPS is kind of boring and healer is okay) like how Elder Tales (Log Horizon) has Enchanter (Off-topic, I hope that one day somebody or any company would make Elder Tale into a reality one day).

Dancer is okay but I don't see it at all as great support like how BRD was.

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Who knows.. at the rate we get new DPS jobs, they might be able to create that role? Anyway, labeled as Support or not, we could do with more DNC like jobs

I'd like to see a Green Mage/Healer Hybrid

All it really needs is 1 hard cast Attack and a bunch of others that are support spells the either buff the party or debuff the enemy with four heal buttons 1 AoE heal 1 Hard heal 1OgD heal 1Burst heal that procs from the debuffs you got piled on.

Got your support got you healer got your complexity everyone goes home happy aside from people that keep thinking Chemist is a good idea.

Quite simple:

• I despise the "turret healer" concept, as you're reduced to spam-healing most of the time with a few damage spell here and there if you have time while also using a tiny selection of support abilities
• FF14 tanks are just stupid in terms of actual tanking, as 1/2 abilities from you are almost enough to keep aggro, which means you don't have to work for it, and your main responsibility is to position a boss/trash-pack
• DPS are mostly the same: different class and color themes, but most boil down to have fixed rotations with a few GCDs here and there and maybe 1 or 2 support abilities

For a support to work you have to have instanced content which requires said support class, or everyone would just pick another DPS to just burst through mechanics.

Additionally the term "support" needs to be defined precisely:

• Is it a class which can fill every role, but is always weaker than corresponding classes of the holy trinity(of tank, heal, DPS)
• Is it a hybrid of damage/heal, damage/tank, heal/tank
• Is it mainly a debuffer/cc'er/resource generator like the old Loremaster from Lotro: a few off-heals and damage spells, the exclusive ability to keep allies mana up, debuffing and cc'ing enemies, removing debuffs etc.

Personally I like the "jack-of-all-trades" kind or the debuffer/cc'er due to their multitude of class kits and thus a lot of abilities at their disposal to be used at the correct moment to keep me entertained and thinking ahead, because the holy trinity is just too predictable and boring.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

Quite simple:

• I despise the "turret healer" concept, as you're reduced to spam-healing most of the time with a few damage spell here and there if you have time while also using a tiny selection of support abilities
• FF14 tanks are just stupid in terms of actual tanking, as 1/2 abilities from you are almost enough to keep aggro, which means you don't have to work for it, and your main responsibility is to position a boss/trash-pack
• DPS are mostly the same: different class and color themes, but most boil down to have fixed rotations with a few GCDs here and there and maybe 1 or 2 support abilities

For a support to work you have to have instanced content which requires said support class, or everyone would just pick another DPS to just burst through mechanics.

Additionally the term "support" needs to be defined precisely:

• Is it a class which can fill every role, but is always weaker than corresponding classes of the holy trinity(of tank, heal, DPS)
• Is it a hybrid of damage/heal, damage/tank, heal/tank
• Is it mainly a debuffer/cc'er/resource generator like the old Loremaster from Lotro: a few off-heals and damage spells, the exclusive ability to keep allies mana up, debuffing and cc'ing enemies, removing debuffs etc.

Personally I like the "jack-of-all-trades" kind or the debuffer/cc'er due to their multitude of class kits and thus a lot of abilities at their disposal to be used at the correct moment to keep me entertained and thinking ahead, because the holy trinity is just too predictable and boring.

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I don’t want to sound like a dick head, the type of you support described is useless. “Jack of all trades, master of none” is a better term.
These buffs and debuffs need to be amazing, because bringing a worst tank, healer, or dps doesn’t sound too appealing.

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Originally Posted by gman1311

I don’t want to sound like a dick head, the type of you support described is useless. “Jack of all trades, master of none” is a better term.
These buffs and debuffs need to be amazing, because bringing a worst tank, healer, or dps doesn’t sound too appealing.

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What did you think RDM was in 11, only reason it was so good was on what subjob you used.

As someone who enjoys pure dps, I like the idea of having your own troupe of attendants to empower you even more.

I'd definitely support the addition of support as a job category, though, rather than SE half-heartedly implementing such a model and not really pleasing anyone in the process. Just nothing too OP, as I don't think bosses and the like should be trivialised by such jobs, especially with how easy most non-savage/ex content is in this game; I'd rather their function was instead focused on buffing than debuffing.

One of the things that Yoshida told about that possible role was about the weight put on the 1 DPS shouder if they create it.

But, I was thinking... Imagine if instead of 1 Tanker, 1 Healer, 1 DPS and 1 Support, we go for 1 Tanker, 1 Healer, 2 DPS and 1 Support? The regular party will be composed by 5 chars in place of 4 and full parties would have 10 chars.

Is this possible? I don't know, but I kinda like the idea if it does. :D