Is this a thing now??

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Originally Posted by Naychan

Regen on pull / mid pull is just sloppy. If you are doing it then please go back to class 101 for aggro management. Let them do their job, while some tanks can adjust you have no idea what your going to get in a roulette. Saying this behavior is fine is perpetuating bad game play. if the tank has to be healed then do so with a instant or swift cast + heal after they get aggro and before the next group is in range.

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Flat out NO. To all of that. Reconsider the changes this expansion has brought.

To be perfectly honest, this was really only an issue in the early days of ARR when PLD specifically had no aoe tools outside of Flash (which generated crap enmity), got its tank stance at 40 and it's aoe oGCD after that. WAR didn't have issues if they could bloody target properly, though WAR had significant other problems.

By the time mass pulling became a constant thing among the more casual population (Brayflox HM) you only had to worry about double Regen pulls even as pld, so long as you hit everything at least once with flash or hit the lone straggler with shield lob.

By HW DRK introduced the Sprint pull, being the only tank with zero need of TP to effectively pull and having an evasion boost to ease dmg during the pul and the onslaught come the stop. Enmity by this point was a no brainier. As long as you had your tank stance on...which you should during dungeon pulls.

Stormblood was much the same as HW for enmity and pulls. It didn't get harder at all and come ShB there's no excuse in the slightest for having any amount of enmity difficulty as a tank. As long as you hit enemies once with tank stance on you'll be fine come the end of your pull. If you manage to miss an enemy, your single target ranged attack has increased enmity as an effect.

Failing a pull just because you have regen shows the lack of skill of the tanks part more than on the healers part. Sure, once upon a time if was absolutely detrimental to do but that time has long since past (nearly 5 years at this point).

I'll be honest though, if I hit any ally with an effect and I see you click it off, I just don't hit you with that effect for the remainder of the instance.

Well, no, it was an issue for WAR too, 130 tp for overpower added up, so it was a dps loss to do it every 2 or 3 mobs mid pull; you'd want it to hit as many as possible. But now that tp's gone that's not an issue.

If we're talking DPS, it was a DPS loss to not generate enough enmiity for your blm's triple flare or the smn dots building aggro during your pulls more than anything regen did. WAR also had invigorate to mitigate tp issues, brd could sing for more Regen and HW gave you equilibrium too if you honestly needed it but invigorate should handle your tp issues for pulling - if you had any.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

If a healer gives you regen before you've hit all the enemies, they're a bad healer. Full stop.

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Yeah shame on people just joining the game and are used too different mechanics, and here i thought the community of ffxiv was known to be helpful...

Anyway on a serious note ok lesson learned, my friend which I mainly played with and did dungeons together did not seem having too much trouble while tanking as PLD. But too see this is a bad thing to do I say thanks for the heads up, once we truly face harder content and I should not pre HoT to get slapped in the face.

I cast regen mid fight, and don't even think about it. Is it really that big of a deal? No, I think not, but some make it seem as though it is.

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Originally Posted by Kreahk

This discussion borderline ridiculous, like the guy on Reddit who had DPS clicking of Astro cards. . . Because reasons.

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I dunno... It seems like I opened a can of worms. This discussion is not like DPS clicking AST cards off at all. However, I do like reading what people happen think about this particular situation and their opinions of it.

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Originally Posted by Allooutrick

I'm seeing plenty of responses that aren't wrong but they're forgetting that these situations are more than just doing your job well. As a member of a team, it's also your job to contribute to the team. By making it harder on a teammate you're not doing as good of a job as you could be. If you're a dps ripping hate from the tank before they get to their place for combat, not good. If youre a healer taking away their enmity by over healing or using certain skills mid pull, not good. We're on a team and must behave as such.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

People keep saying that aggro is easy to keep or get over whatever, but that's literally not the problem. Running towards enemies that are out of melee range just to have the healer give you regen and then have everything go after the healer instead because the tank hasn't hit them yet is the issue. Sure you can usually do a single AoE to catch them as they run by, but some are pretty spread out, and I've definitely lost a few stragglers to someone casting a heal before I've hit everything.

It's like some of you think all groups of enemies spawn on the same pixel and will all always be hit by a single attack. The last story dungeon has a few groups where you can barely hit two enemies at once with an AoE when they first spawn, and you have to quickly grab the rest individually.

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Yeah, this was the main issue I have. Not the fact that I can't keep hate.
Grabbing hate back is easy... However, it depends on the healers. Will they run? Or will they stay still? How many times will I have to anticipate this happening? Can I outrun the healer for a little bit if this run turns into a bad chase every time?

It is the fact that as soon as I do my said AOE combo, but the mobs have distances with each other.

Your GCD would not be up by then even if you use said Provoke or something equivalent of Circle of Scorn.

I do mass heavy pulls. Example of how big, 2/3 first room and entire last room of Mt. Gulg kind of big. So all of those of GCD is all used up before the end of my pulls.

And then theres also the fact that as soon as the mobs "see" me, and then a regen comes up all of a sudden before my AOE can initiate the attack, most of the time I get lucky where regen wouldn't matter, but there are times where it will slip by what ever and whom ever can explain it....

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Originally Posted by Frizze

But did they also make the AoE attacks of the tanks bigger to ensure they would be able to hit everything?

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Actually, no. Flash had a 5 yalm radius for PLD. My T.E and Prom AOE swings are 5 yalms as well. They did not make the attacks bigger. Although, I do wish they did. Would reach the mobs that happens to be standing a tiny bit further away with certain scenarios. My Circle of Scorn did not change either.

As a healer, I never forget my lesson about not putting a regen on a tank mid-pull.

I was doing The Stone Vigil for the first time and tank was pulling some trash mobs. He was quite fragile at that time and I was a quite inexperienced white mage. So I had the idea of putting a regen afterwards to help keeping him alive (since he was reaching 40% HP pretty easily). On that pull, the mobs decided that the tank was lame and gone after my head. I died before tank could pull them off me and the party wiped afterwards.

I do Mid-Pull-Regen. Not even sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Nanami_Naniwa

I do Mid-Pull-Regen. Not even sorry ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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well, you clearly enjoy getting hit every now and then since all enemies will instantly run towards you, making you lose more mp.

it's very annoying. while it was always a thing it feels happenening more often recently.
but in the end it's just dungeon content. i don't care if the run lasts a Minute longer

I tend to throw regen... then facepalm myself.
I am a new player and switched from a game where heal over time skills don't boost aggro that much and where you even have to throw them in mid-pull. It's an old habit and old habits are hard to remove.
It could be the case for some other players too.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but they did adjust enmity generation. I think so long as the tank as their stance up, a regen stealing aggro is very difficult. Don't quote me as I personally haven't done it. But the few times I noticed it, it didn't cause any issues.

I can pretty confidently say that not once during ShB has a mid-pull regen ever once stolen aggro from me. If I miss an enemy while doing wall to wall pulls then that's

a) my fault for not taking the time to make sure I've hit every single enemy once (more than enough at this point to keep aggro until you're in position) and
b) not going to make the healer take aggro, but rather the DPS who are probably applying DOTs or using AOE combos to keep their buffs up.

Really don't see it as a problem if I have regen thrown on me mid pull, it just means I can delay Rampart a little bit rather than having to use it to catch the first few autos when I reach the last pack.

Not much of a problem as it was in the past, seeing as tanks generate 500000x more enmity than ever before, but if you pull with a single target, the rest still gonna b-line towards the healer.

It's a tanks adjust moment.. face pull -> AOE right away.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

well, you clearly enjoy getting hit every now and then since all enemies will instantly run towards you, making you lose more mp.

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The tanks I'm running with are actually able to hold aggro on a Regen buff. I would be highly disturbed if they couldn't. You just have to use one AoE spells to grab the aggro from them. Some folks make it sound if Regen casts more emmity than any tank skills.

OVER 9000 EMMITY!

And if the tanks AOE misses one or more of the enemies as they run past to get at the healer, then that's that.

Whether it be due to server ticks/lag so that the enemies look like they are in range of the AOE when they are actually not and thus just run right past the tank and clobber the healer, forcing the tank to turn around and backtrack, or the mobs being aggroed being spread out and coming at you from multiple angles so that the tanks AOE is just not big enough to hit all of them, allowing some to slip the net and clobber the healer, also forcing the tank to abort the pull and backtrack to grab them...

Both of those are things that happen.

I know, because it's happened to me, i manage to grab some of the mobs, but the AOE missed a few, so now i have to abort the pull and run back the way i came instead to save the healer.
And then i get yelled at for not pulling properly.
And if i keep going then the healer dies and i get yelled at for that instead.

That this false image of its "always" bad to regen on pull is still around is just weird.

Tanks can be regened on pull and if their worth their salt wont care. Run in ... aoe ... done sprint helps.

If you miss one stuff like gnb regen and war self heal cause it to come back to you ... if you dont want to ranged it.

Stop bashing ppl who regen on pull ... praise tanks who manage their pulls so we can move on from this stigma.

Dont be stuck in 2015

In the old days, regen generated a disproportionate amount of enmity as it ticked and you'd pull targets off a tank that had made barely one (or zero) attacks. With all the Shadowbringers changes it's no longer relevant. Go ahead and cast regen if you want. Any tank that can't hold the target these days, under typical circumstances, is basically not even playing.

I feel the big issue with this is the healers that don't stick with the tank while they're mass pulling. It is not a big deal if the regen helps the tank round them up so they can AoE them off. I think the healers that are being complained about are mainly because they always stay in the back and don't think to run to the tank when they have aggro.

Personally as a WHM, i do like to open up with a Rege after tank has gained aggro, use an instant, add group regen (or vice versa if time allows) and then then blow things to pieces, aka stun.
It just gives me much more time to do that and dps's getting hit by the invisible area effects in 999 effects with 6 - 10 mobs will get healed up as well. Regen up if going slow and continue blasting...

If i'm early i move to tank instantly or preemptively and stick with him if it carries over.

Is it the most efficient use of my mana or even cd's, probably no. Does it make fight longer, most of the time no and if it does not by much. If it adds 5 seconds per group at 10-12 groups its maybe 1min with a lot more safety net.

In lower dungeons with well geared, its usually sufficient for whole fight.
But mana is a thing of the past except for extreme fringe cases.

Oh man, back in the early days when I was a new healer, I got my ass chewed out for using regen before a pull and mid pull. Now I either use a shield before a pull (used to be Stoneskin when I played WHM but that is no longer) if I'm using nocturnal or I'm playing as SCH (alt) or I just wait until the pull is done and use big heal + regen + benefic if necessary. Basically whatever is necessary to keep tank alive.

If the tank is literally getting too close to dead for my comfort, I pop the CD heal or swift-cast or surecast benefic II (whatever I have available).

Parroting what some others said, but healers should not be using regens right before a pull or mid-pull for sure... I've had similar issues (and the exact opposite: NOT getting healed) when I've played as tank and was given similar uppity remarks. It's like... "Please take a slice of humble pie, because you're making my job and YOUR job unnecessarily harder." then again, healing has been boring lately. Maybe this is healers' way living on the edge for a bit of excitement. (Just kidding, this was going on long before 5.0.)

SOme weird comments here...

So people are saying it's bad or inexperienced healing?

...I'd say it's unobservant or oblivious people that would think that. Aggro is so much easier to manage now for a tank... Even more so while on the move, AoE'ing. I'm not saying I do it all the time but when I see that a tank uses his ranged attack to pull and then AoE's the group as he moves, hell yeah I'm gonna thow a regen on him while I run and DoT the enemies. Sure I'll see the aggro marker turn red but they'll be back to solid green in an instant.

Are people just living in the past?

i think people are living in the past with this... you dont have as tank limited tenacity bar for spamming your skills, every tank ive done dungeon with hasnt complained ive cast any form of heals during pull, cause, well, instant agro aoe spam through the mobs.
/shrug
if you have to back track i suggest invest in direct hit? :P /sarcasm

This is older post, so perhaps OP has got his/her questions solved by now.

Just wanted to say, as WHM, particularly in 45+ content, and especially in 56+ content, you can consciously regen the tank at almost any point and still be totally fine.

• Ideally to not risk any enmity you'd regen only after the tank has hit everything or is about to hit everything. If sub-50 content, try to regen only after tank has all the aggro.
• If it's 45+ (pref. 56+) dungeon, you can regen as WHM almost whenever you want, because you have really strong tools to break the flow of combat and allow the tank to re-take aggro. Namely, Holy(lvl45) is super strong, usually landing at least one stun in a pull session. Survival on the tank comes from Regen(lvl35), Assize(lvl56), and the instant lilies of Afflatus Solace(lvl52). If for some reason other teammates are eating stuff, can mix in a Medica2(lvl50) between holy casts. WHM is a healing powerhouse; just hover over the skills and you may be pleasantly surprised at the toolkit.

An aggressively played WHM is insanely powerful and fun from what I've seen in the 60s. Mana regen is great from stats (piety), but also from the role skill Lucid Dreaming(1min cooldown), Thin Air(lvl58), Assize(lvl56) -- free 500 Mana back, ty. Don't forget to cast Lucid Dreaming from time to time, perhaps at about 7000 mana, for example. I haven't seen the higher level stuff (70+) yet, but I've played all the healers and WHM definitely can carry in dungeons or anything with lots of mob pulls. Currently have a lvl77 WHM with Sindri Lux, so I've done and redone lots of the 50-60 content on it =))