Hrothgar Review

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Quoted from bayohne live translation from PLL.
So if i'm not wrong that means any and all current hairstyles that you have unlocked/purchased so far will not be available on the new races as they are not "race specific" hairstyles. Am i understanding the translation right?

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If it's correct then this infuriates me. I spent millions of gil and weeks of my time getting hairstyles, paid real money for some and this is a huge slap in the face from SE to all of the players who are on the same boat as me.

I can understand it could be hard to give the big cats any of the old hairstyles but the bunnies literally have human-like faces, I fail to see a reason as to why they can't have at least the obtainable hairtyles.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

If it's correct then this infuriates me. I spent millions of gil and weeks of my time getting hairstyles, paid real money for some and this is a huge slap in the face from SE to all of the players who are on the same boat as me.

I can understand it could be hard to give the big cats any of the old hairstyles but the bunnies literally have human-like faces, I fail to see a reason as to why they can't have at least the obtainable hairtyles.

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They've already stated that Viera will be getting some legacy styles that the other races have access to. Hrothgar will be getting all new race specific hairstyles and faces.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

They've already stated that Viera will be getting some legacy styles that the other races have access to. Hrothgar will be getting all new race specific hairstyles and faces.

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This got a bit confusing then.
Still sad for the big cats but they must be hard to work with being so different from other races.
Just hope that with the new hairstyles for them devs will consider letting people change them without a use of a Fantasia.

Well guys I went back to being a lala, maybe one day hrothgar will get a bald head or supershort hair option so I can make the tiger I envisioned.

Ended up using the free fanta from the game time deal to switch mine back to an Au Ra, it just infuriates me to such a stupid degree that they feel so rushed. I get that they were designing them alongside with Viera but not having a separate option for faces and hair is just a deal breaker. Already bad enough that most of the headgear doesn't work for them save for glasses and items from ShB. Icing on the cake was also the terrible naming conventions for them. I stuck with my old Au Ra name until they released them so I had something that fit my character and holy crud was the lore behind the names terrible. I'll pass on them until SE puts some actual effort them whenever that happens. :mad:

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Originally Posted by JustAName

Ended up using the free fanta from the game time deal to switch mine back to an Au Ra, it just infuriates me to such a stupid degree that they feel so rushed. I get that they were designing them alongside with Viera but not having a separate option for faces and hair is just a deal breaker. Already bad enough that most of the headgear doesn't work for them save for glasses and items from ShB. Icing on the cake was also the terrible naming conventions for them. I stuck with my old Au Ra name until they released them so I had something that fit my character and holy crud was the lore behind the names terrible. I'll pass on them until SE puts some actual effort them whenever that happens. :mad:

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Looks like you aren't the only one, a lot of people are switching from hrothgar after today, viera too. I wonder how popular the races will actually be after the dust settles. I'm gonna try to hold out, but when I get more money I doubt I will be able to just stop myself from pressing the buy button for a fantasia when I checkout for the most recent outfit.

Unfortunate, hilarious that I may once again go full circle back to the almost exact same au ra I always play. That's the race I need to say enough with the fantasias. SE has definitely gotten too much money out of me over this debacle, and many others. It really just sucks. I really like viera, and I know a lot of hrothgar players love hrothgar, but SE decided to bungle it all.

Considering that the question regarding if there will a way to use the aesthetician for free for hrothgar hairstyles has over 100 likes on it's first ask, over 50 on the second, and over 40 on the third (mine btw,) it's safe to say that they chose to ignore this question on purpose. To top it off, they're still going to release more hairstyles without actually even giving an answer to that question.

It really sucks for me because Hrothgar was what I wanted in this game: an actual playable, very beast-looking race. But as the days go on, I'm starting to realize it would've been far better had they pushed this back. I can live with limited hairstyles. But I can't accept that we have to pay for a fantasia if we choose to change our hairstyles when heck, the other newest race can do it for free.

My fault for jumping the gun I guess

I have my gripes with Hrothgar, lack of hairstyles, hair being tied to face models, several of my old glams being unstable (i got headgear), and their bug thigh gap. I know it might be a weird thing to pick at but why is their tight happy of big? It makes them look bow legged or like their legs should be bigger. That said when I look at my character all I want to do squish his face. I have never been more content with a race then I am right now and this is coming from a fantasia addict.

https://i.imgur.com/n0B0SZk.png

A friend of mine took a picture of our Hrothgar friend. Does miqo and au ra suffer from this as well? So many limitations, unpolished motions, etc with this race. I can't help but feel that Hrothgar is being rushed into the game just to alleviate the fanrage for not having male Viera. I've seen plenty of nice looking Hrothgar, they deserve better than this.

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Q: Both of the races have characteristic head designs. What will happen to headgear?

Yoshida: It won’t be displayed. It’s impossible with the current FFXIV’s system because of Viera’s and Hrothgar’s faces. The logic is that it was impossible to make helmets that would fit. For example, if we talk about Viera’s ears, you can make them fall sideways in which case we have to make the be in the same position as Miqo’te’s, otherwise it wouldn’t resonate with the system. So, we thought that if we don’t make new races that have new looks, that it doesn’t make any sense to add any, so I decided that it doesn’t matter if they can’t wear helmets. Therefore, no matter what helmet you equip, you can equip it, but it won’t graphically show. However, we did decide to enable display of head pieces that hide the entire head, so if you want to wear the Fat Chocobo Head, you can. Glasses and Circlets won’t be displayed. If we were to separately decide which item is fine and which isn’t, we would have to go through a huge number of items, so we decided to disable the graphics completely and only allow the headpieces that hide the entire head.

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I've come to realize that Yoshida is a professional liar. Either that or he lets his coders feed him heaps of BS and is showing incompetence at his own duties.

So with the Viera, there are things that hide just the ears. Which means they could use the same API call that does that and apply it to helmets, solving the issue for Viera. Their heads and faces are not oddly shaped. And this isn't the only thing the producer has said that is outright false. Pretty much anytime he says 'system limitation' he's lying out his ass.

What is really happening here is some coder can't be arsed and either Yoshida doesn't want to bother them, or is believing there is 'system limitations' when they simply are too lazy to run through the database. Its pretty bad when modders can get around such 'system limitations' in other games. I'd wager some of the modders in this game could do it too.

We already knew since the benchmark that Hrothgar hair is like Au Ra horns when it comes to character data. Just a part of the face. Fur pattern is the equivalent of hair styles and pattern color is the equivalent of hair highlights since those can be changed at the barber. We know Au Ra can't change their horns without paying so there is no reason to expect it to be any different for the Hrothgar. It's not realistic to expect them to change how character data works for one race.

It would be more beneficial to ask for more fur patterns since those can actually be changed in game, but people stubbornly believe we will be able to customize hair in game in the future and keep asking for more hair styles for Hrothgar even though it's going to be useless for anyone except fantasia users. I know a lot of people like to use full coverage armor which covers fur patterns on other body parts except the tail, but this is a beast race with beastly customization by design. Personally I'm quite happy with my character and being able to change the fur to look like a different cat whenever I want.

Viera on the other hand should have all the usual hair styles because they have normal looking heads and separate hair options.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It's definitely a limitation due to the system.
They only have so many variables that can be changed, and so many that can be changed via aesthetician.

For Hrothgar, the variable that can be changed via aesthetician is the fur pattern and fur colour, with the 'Hairstyles' instead taking up the same variable slot as Au Ra horns, by being tied to the face.

Unless they change the way the aesthetician works, all Hrothgar will get is more fur patterns.

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And it was their great idea to put the fur pattern int he category of the hairstyles instead of putting manes in that one. I am not sure who decided that this would be great? Fur pattern is nice and all but most probably wont even see that if they dont run around nearly naked all the time..while (especially with the helmets missing) most will probably see their head.

The combination of hair style issue and head gear issue makes the Hrothgar customization severely lacking. One of those would be bad, both of them are dreadful.

The fur patterns are cool, but imo the Hrothgar need serious rework. The heads should be shaved to allow hairstyles and the patterns combined with the hairstyle options to keep the number of variables same. That's likely the most reasonable fix to Aesthetician.

If we go this route I'd like to see some beards combined with the new hairstyles.

So far the race seems more like the early preview. I like it, started playing the game again due to it, but it's definitely not polished and these issues are serious bummer.

I too am switching back to my Au’ra. I really loved my hrothgar and I could even live with one hairstyle for a bit longer but the live letter didn’t give me any hope. My main issue was not having head gear and how terrible most of the clothes stretched to be around my big boiz body. With my Au’ra nearly all of the af gear looks good on him. I’m gonna miss my kitty but it’s not permanent or anything. I’ll probably switch back if they get a racial overhaul or something (like helmets and hairs) ;_; I always get sad when I Fantasia cause I’m gonna miss my old character lol

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I've come to realize that Yoshida is a professional liar. Either that or he lets his coders feed him heaps of BS and is showing incompetence at his own duties.

So with the Viera, there are things that hide just the ears. Which means they could use the same API call that does that and apply it to helmets, solving the issue for Viera. Their heads and faces are not oddly shaped. And this isn't the only thing the producer has said that is outright false. Pretty much anytime he says 'system limitation' he's lying out his ass.

What is really happening here is some coder can't be arsed and either Yoshida doesn't want to bother them, or is believing there is 'system limitations' when they simply are too lazy to run through the database. Its pretty bad when modders can get around such 'system limitations' in other games. I'd wager some of the modders in this game could do it too.

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Its his cooworkers being lazy and Yoshida having 2 games upon his head, sucking his life out of him.
There is no such thing as "impossible" in the computer modelling world, they are just flat out LAZY, and Yoshida is being forced to manage 2 games at the same time, this is completely insane.

SE are probably taking all the money from FFXIV and they put it all into another totally useless garbage like FFXV was, maybe FFXVI who knows. Wohoo cant wait for another unoptimised boring triple A missery, where you press 1 button for the entire game... Or maybe they are going to make "the quiet man II", another "spectacular success". xD

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Its pretty bad when modders can get around such 'system limitations' in other games. I'd wager some of the modders in this game could do it too.

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They can indeed. After the recent "hair news" I looked up some of the latest mods out of curiousity and found a couple of mods where people put other FFXIV hairs on Vieras.
Sad to see modders doing a better job at some things than developers.

With the year being 2019, they should be able to overcome these "limitations". I mean the engine is in the way but if the workers stopped being lazy they could add more hrothgar hairstyles and more viera stuff.

Hrothgars' claws should be an optional feature in character customization ( or aesthetician) such as scars, facial hair or fangs, and NOT part of the starting racial gloves.

Personally, I love my Hrothgar and I'm excited to see what else they decide to bring to it!

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Originally Posted by foussi

With the year being 2019, they should be able to overcome these "limitations". I mean the engine is in the way but if the workers stopped being lazy they could add more hrothgar hairstyles and more viera stuff.

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Hold on, i don't think modders and dev implements are the same. Modders mod files locally and whatever they modded only appears locally/clientside or only on their screen. Others cannot see whatever they modded.
However, the devs implement is to make sure that all player's client must render such and such so it might put strain on their "limited" game engine.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Hold on, i don't think modders and dev implements are the same. Modders mod files locally and whatever they modded only appears locally/clientside or only on their screen. Others cannot see whatever they modded.
However, the devs implement is to make sure that all player's client must render such and such so it might put strain on their "limited" game engine.

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So the difference is instead of one player modding their files. SE applies it to a patch and then everyone gets it. That's it.

Its literally the same process, with a different delivery system. Point is, modders did it within a few days, while SE is citing system limitations.

SE is lying. They've been caught in a lie to customers. This is bad. What else aren't they being truthful about?

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

So the difference is instead of one player modding their files. SE applies it to a patch and then everyone gets it. That's it.

Its literally the same process, with a different delivery system. Point is, modders did it within a few days, while SE is citing system limitations.

SE is lying. They've been caught in a lie to customers. This is bad. What else aren't they being truthful about?

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It's truly funny to me that gamers think they know so much about the development process. Modding a file is far different than actually developing the hairstyle for new models. The rigging and quality assurance alone are two big things that SE goes through, where as a modder doesn't have to ensure such things work well. Gamers are so entitled anymore that it makes me sick.

You become entitled when you pay for a product.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You become entitled when you pay for a product.

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You become entitled when you start claiming you know what's going on, blame the devs, and act like a child. Yes.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It's truly funny to me that gamers think they know so much about the development process. Modding a file is far different than actually developing the hairstyle for new models. The rigging and quality assurance alone are two big things that SE goes through, where as a modder doesn't have to ensure such things work well. Gamers are so entitled anymore that it makes me sick.

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Except that I do know how the process works. I'm working on a project currently. Been on it for a few years now.

So yes, I do know what I am talking about. In this case the producer is putting on face (most likely) or is being led around by coders/artists who can't be bothered.

posting this here. Upvote if you are interested to see that question answered

post#40

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

Gamers are so entitled anymore that it makes me sick.

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You shouldn't be generalizing "Gamers". You are one of them too since you're playing games. People has and always been entitled, nothing has changed.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Except that I do know how the process works. I'm working on a project currently. Been on it for a few years now.

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Maybe you can share what you do in that project? Is it a game engine called crystal tools created back in 2007?

I'm honestly shocked that they didn't bother to make the achievement helms work for Hrothgar.

The crowns wouldn't be too hard id imagine, even if it looks like its placed instead of worn.

The biggest offender for me is that the Chocobo helmets aren't wearable, both the legacy and the Chocobo racing achievements are huuuuge time sinks and now they don't have a reward if you are a Hrothgar. I feel like they wouldn't even need to worry a lot about the unique face structure since it covers everything already too.

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

I'm honestly shocked that they didn't bother to make the achievement helms work for Hrothgar.

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I'm okay not having those, but I'd have liked them to adapt the MSQ related gear.
I'm going through Stormblood at the moment and I'm on a mission where I have to pretend I'm from the Imperials by dressing like their troops. They make such a fuss about being stealthy and stuff that I couldn't believe the clothes I stole from the imperials weren't adapted to Hrothgar heads.
Like, they-... they were looking straight at me. They were just like "Oh, hey, look! It's our buddy Jimmy! What's that, Jimmy, you want us to leave our spots because our shift is over? Oh, but that felt too short! Whatever, if little Jimmy says so, there's nothing suspicious about this. Doo, do doo, do dooo~"
It was so immersion-breaking it was hilarious. But, like... a bad kind of hilarious.

It's ten times as egregious because that very same day I found a full helmet that I could wear, but the MSQ one I just couldn't. Why is that distinction there? I have no idea.

I switched back to Au Ra after having a Hrothgar for awhile. In the end, the lack of hats, the fact we couldn't really aesthetician to play with our looks properly with hairstyles. the hunch, and a lot of lazy facial expressions made me like it less than Au Ra. I wouldn't mind the hunch if it was something we could c-pose away, but the hunch persisting in several combat idle poses (AST was the one that killed me, hunkered over that globe like its a precious thing) was obnoxious. I really don't get the MMO market obsession with bestial races NEEDING to hunch.

It also mildly bothered me that we couldn't be as big as Runar. >.> I tried a ton of different idles but Runar just seems to be bigger than any hrothgar we can make. XD

That said, they should totally make an emote to let the big races like Roes, male Au Ra, and Hroths carry the smaller races like Runar carries Y'shtola. >.> (or just carry anyone, cue the hilarity of a min size lala carrying a max sized roe)

Love the Hrothgar, can't give 1 rat's butt about head gear that isn't glasses or glasses related (OTHER than my Chocobo Mask as I earned that ish on the TRACKS) and I'm OK with sticking with 1 hair styles forever if I like it.

That being said it's deplorable that they locked manes to potions.

Knowing that I need to use a potion to change my hair has made me far more likely to change back to a female on my main and move my Hrothgar to a 2nd character.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Knowing that I need to use a potion to change my hair has made me far more likely to change back to a female on my main and move my Hrothgar to a 2nd character.

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Yeah, I think this is particularly egregious. I wonder if they are going to give out a free fantasia to players when they add the supposed new faces. Not like hrothgar players are going to be able to use them without that fantasia. My guess is probably not.

I have no idea if this has ever been mentioned before here, but a few months ago when SE posted renders of the Hrothgar on the official ShB site they changed them shortly after to reflect adjustments to the model.
The one on the left was the original render, and the right is the updated one.
https://i.redd.it/y09x0jws0tr21.jpg

I noticed that the old render has Head 3 (If I'm not mistaken on the number, either way it's the one that has the Coeurl-like options), denoted by the pointed ear tips and the blackened fangs - the only Head type with this option.

The updated render uses Head 1 and is what we have available in game.

It's likely that they changed the face to avoid the hair clipping with the ears, but seeing that combination makes me wonder if at one point the hair and the head options were interchangeable. Or maybe they never were, and that happened to be one of the options and they merely swapped it with another head.

It looks like they fit the head to the hair, rather than the hair to the head. Maybe hairs were traditionally implemented and this is the problem that arose. Are the other heads in shape that different to each other that it required them to fit face to hair, rather than hair to face for each? Did they just have each head done before the hair, implemented it, and did this instead of fixing it properly, like a "duct tape" fix?

I have a feeling they didn't have time to fix it, and they just did it this way, and doubled down. Just speculation.

Wouldn't it have just been better overall to make the faces slightly more similar for more options overall?