[SPOILERS] The Convocation of Fourteen

So what title was this 14th member? The other thirteen were all taken from Ivalice games, so it would stand to reason the fourteenth was also named for an Ivalice entity (e.g. Venat or Kiltias)

thing is though there is no 14th member in tactics, theres only the 13 scions and the 13 sigils from ff12, alongside the 13 zodiac signs, we might take some form of "judas" as the dissident, but i think there is no name or title on purpose, its left up to us to fill in the blanks and craft our own story

that and "the twelve" being our faction post sundering is probably gonna be coming up more often going forward

Given how many wrenches are thrown into the whole thing from Shadowbringers' revelations, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. (Never did, to be honest.)

Sure, you've got the Convocation of Thirteen named after effective footnotes in XII's bestiary... only those are just titles, and the only one whose true name is known references Greek myth / a relatively obscure summon from VII. The city they once lived in, Amaurot, and the only other known named Ancient (Hythlodaeus) reference Thomas More's Utopia, while the Termination seen in the actual dungeon takes a lot of cues from the Bible's Book of Revelation.

Make of that what you will.

The Fourteenth Member of the Convocation.
The Fourteenth Legion.
The Fourteenth Final Fantasy.

My guess is that it's perfectly normal than it's not a reference to any other game but exclusive to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Astarotha

thing is though there is no 14th member in tactics, theres only the 13 scions and the 13 sigils from ff12, alongside the 13 zodiac signs, we might take some form of "judas" as the dissident, but i think there is no name or title on purpose, its left up to us to fill in the blanks and craft our own story

that and "the twelve" being our faction post sundering is probably gonna be coming up more often going forward

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Weren't there only 12 Scions? Ultima and Zodiark ended up without opposition, and while Altima obviously got her name as a reference to how Ultima was originally localized and to keep the trend stable, there's no equivalent for Zodiark.

In Final Fantasy Tactics, Zoidark is summoned by Elidibus, a war mage. Elidibus has the 13th Zoidak stone, the Serpent stone, called Serpentarius. Rather fittingly in FFXIV, Elidibus' red glyph looks like parts of Zodiark's seal from FFXII. So yeah, all of the Ascian Titles of the Convocation of Thirteen are based on the Ivalice games.

This would also be why some people keep saying Elidibus is a snake... and not just because he likes manipulating people. Serpentarius is the name of a snake constellation.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Given how many wrenches are thrown into the whole thing from Shadowbringers' revelations, I wouldn't put too much stock in that. (Never did, to be honest.)

Sure, you've got the Convocation of Thirteen named after effective footnotes in XII's bestiary... only those are just titles, and the only one whose true name is known references Greek myth / a relatively obscure summon from VII. The city they once lived in, Amaurot, and the only other known named Ancient (Hythlodaeus) reference Thomas More's Utopia, while the Termination seen in the actual dungeon takes a lot of cues from the Bible's Book of Revelation.

Make of that what you will.

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With the revelation of Emet-Selch's true name is Hades (a summon from FF7), and the possibility that the form he took was his real form during the fight with him, I see small similarities also to the Esper World in FF6 and Feymarch from FF4. Beings with incredible power that wear robes and normal clothes like any other person, but their true forms may be something different. With that in mind, if we were ever to look for the true names of the 14, we might be needing to look at other FF game summons for their true names. I'm personally still of the mindset that the 14th's true name is Maduin, since if we go under the assumption that the WoL is the soul of the 14th, then the 14th has a habit of being a guardian that protects people just as Maduin in FF6 was a higher ranked Esper who was the guardian of the Esper World.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

the only one whose true name is known references Greek myth

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I can totally see how they are related to ancient Greeks, what with their ability to think of all those monsters...

While I would love to find out title and real name of the 14th, I think it will remain mystery forever (just because it will let people to make their characters whatever they want).

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

In Final Fantasy Tactics, Zoidark is summoned by Elidibus, a war mage. Elidibus has the 13th Zoidak stone, the Serpent stone, called Serpentarius. Rather fittingly in FFXIV, Elidibus' red glyph looks like parts of Zodiark's seal from FFXII. So yeah, all of the Ascian Titles of the Convocation of Thirteen are based on the Ivalice games.

This would also be why some people keep saying Elidibus is a snake... and not just because he likes manipulating people. Serpentarius is the name of a snake constellation.

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More broadly, all of the Ascian overlords are named after one of the Scions of Light mentioned in the Espers' bios in XII's bestiary, and the glyphs that show up when they use high-level magic are inverted fragments of their corresponding Espers' glyphs. (Lahabrea's glyph, for instance, is an inverted fragment of the bottom of Mateus'.) The only exceptions are Ultima and Zodiark; since they don't have Dark / Light counterparts (respectively) they take their names from elsewhere, Ultima's "Ascian" being named Altima after the corruption of her name in her initial Tactics appearance and Zodiark's "Ascian" being named after the wizard bearing his Zodiac stone in Tactics as you mentioned. Isn't this common knowledge?

My point was that what we learned in Shadowbringers throws the Ivalice references into a blender with Thomas More's Utopia, Greek myth, Christian scripture, and a dash of VII reference. Consequently, we can't rely on Ivalician lore to predict everything pertaining to the Ascians anymore.

Is the missing fourteenth member of the original Conclave named after some Ivalician thing? Who knows at this point?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

With the revelation of Emet-Selch's true name is Hades (a summon from FF7), and the possibility that the form he took was his real form during the fight with him, I see small similarities also to the Esper World in FF6 and Feymarch from FF4. Beings with incredible power that wear robes and normal clothes like any other person, but their true forms may be something different. With that in mind, if we were ever to look for the true names of the 14, we might be needing to look at other FF game summons for their true names. I'm personally still of the mindset that the 14th's true name is Maduin, since if we go under the assumption that the WoL is the soul of the 14th, then the 14th has a habit of being a guardian that protects people just as Maduin in FF6 was a higher ranked Esper who was the guardian of the Esper World.

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If we stick to espers, the wiki at least says that Zodiark in XII is sometimes called Ashlesha Ascendant, which references the Sanskrit name for Serpentarius. Ashlesha as 14's title is as good a guess as any.

Edit: Just remembered that Unukalhai's an old Arabic name for one of the stars in Serpentarius. They've pulled from Zodiark's constellation twice now, as Sabik is another star in it, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if 14's name and/or title is also somehow related to Serpentarius.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Edit: Just remembered that Unukalhai's an old Arabic name for one of the stars in Serpentarius. They've pulled from Zodiark's constellation twice now, as Sabik is another star in it, so I definitely wouldn't be surprised if 14's name and/or title is also somehow related to Serpentarius.

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To be honest, my own completely unfounded speculation is that the name of the 14th Convocation Member is "Sabik".

Unfounded because there's literally nothing to prove it, and speculated because wouldn't it be cool.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

To be honest, my own completely unfounded speculation is that the name of the 14th Convocation Member is "Sabik".

Unfounded because there's literally nothing to prove it, and speculated because wouldn't it be cool.

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Lucifer. Lahabrea gave us the moniker “bringer of light”. :)

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Lucifer. Lahabrea gave us the moniker “bringer of light”. :)

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Interesting, might as well be true. But if we are going with Greek names:

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Greek name was Phosphoros (also meaning "light-bringer") or Heosphoros (meaning "dawn-bringer").

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And I think not only Lahabrea thought of us this way:

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Originally Posted by Minfilia

As long as your flame continues to burn, the light of the dawn may ever be relit!

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As for the Fourteenth's Convocation title... well, I dunno. They already stretched just getting the titles of the Thirteen, and given as the Fourteenth was not complicit in the summoning of Zodiark (implicitly they were against it), I doubt it's related to Serpentarius.

As for their true name... well, that too is unknown, however given as Emet-Selch's true name is Hades my idea was that they are all named after the Greek pantheon... that would make Elidibus, the Emissary (Messenger) Hermes and Lahabrea, the Warrior Ares... if we follow that logic and take the Ascians calling us "Bringer of Light" to mean anything in particular, my guess would be Helios...

Hmm, maybe we will end up being Hestia, the eldest sister of Hades...

And considering she was the one tending fires, bringer of light kinda fits too (althought that would be stretching it...).

I would put my money on Prometheus. Prometheus was a titan that stole fire from the gods to give mankind it's power and was punished by them.

Aeschylus, Prometheus Bound 228 - 258 :
"Prometheus : However, you ask why he [Zeus] torments me [Prometheus], and this I will now make clear. As soon as he had seated himself upon his father's throne, he immediately assigned to the deities their several privileges and apportioned to them their proper powers. But of wretched mortals he took no notice, desiring to bring the whole race to an end and create a new one in its place. Against this purpose none dared make stand except me--I only had the courage; I saved mortals so that they did not descend, blasted utterly, to the house of Haides. This is why I am bent by such grievous tortures, painful to suffer, piteous to behold. I who gave mortals first place in my pity, I am deemed unworthy to win this pity for myself, but am in this way mercilessly disciplined, a spectacle that shames the glory of Zeus . . .
Chorus : Did you perhaps transgress even somewhat beyond this offence?
Prometheus : Yes, I caused mortals to cease foreseeing their doom (moros).
Chorus : Of what sort was the cure that you found for this affliction?
Prometheus : I caused blind hopes (elpides) to dwell within their breasts.
Chorus : A great benefit was this you gave to mortals.
Prometheus : In addition, I gave them fire.
Chorus : What! Do creatures of a day now have flame-eyed fire?
Prometheus : Yes, and from it they shall learn many arts.
Chorus : Then it was on a charge like this that Zeus--
Prometheus : Torments me and in no way gives me respite from pain."

Going further, many traits of Lucifer (whos name translates to Morning Star/Light bringer as mentioned above) and Prometheus can be attributed to being the same story but from different perspectives. Seeing how this expansion in particular has heavy themes from both mythos, I am inclined to believe it is even more likely. The 14th is in my opinion more likely to have a name befitting a Titan or Demi-God rather than a full fledged all powerful being.

So in my understanding of events.

Zodiark takes his throne only to give out power and titles "worthy of Gods" to those who summoned him while demanding sacrifices be made to him. The 14th member says F to that and summons Hydaelyn to stop the sacrifices. All but three are split into shards. The story of FFXIV begins as a shard of the 14th begins his/her cycle of death and rebirth as protector of these new mortals, ever standing in the way of the "Gods" who would see it all be reversed.

"One brings Shadow, One brings light."
"I am Shadow, I am the Light."

Forgive me for the bump, but I would very much like to continue this conversation and hear (read) others opinions on the matter.

Well, the Gamescom interview debunked the idea that they were all necessarily Greek names, specifically mentioning that while Hythlodaeus is Greek that doesn't mean everything there is rooted in Greek.

A lot of people already figured it out, but the Ancients' capital of Amaurot is a reference to Thomas More's Utopia, as are a lot of the smaller details. Amaurot was the capital of Utopia. Raphael Hythlodaeus was a traveler to the island. The Akademia Anyder is a reference to the Anyder River. And so on and so forth.

That said my money is still on them being named after the Greek gods. (Prometheus is a good idea, I admit, but contingent on them having actually been among those who created Hydaelyn.)

Due to the Gamescom interview, I'm going to go under the assumption that only a few names were Greek due to a coincidence.

I think the idea is "We were referencing Utopia, which used Greek names, and the final boss was a shout-out to a previous summon like so many other things who coincidentally was named after a Greek god."

I guess I could read Utopia for ideas, but, ehh, 12 hour workdays take a lot outta ya...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I think the idea is "We were referencing Utopia, which used Greek names, and the final boss was a shout-out to a previous summon like so many other things who coincidentally was named after a Greek god."

I guess I could read Utopia for ideas, but, ehh, 12 hour workdays take a lot outta ya...

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Read the summary of Utopia... though the one I was reading was kinda just a rewrite of the story...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I think the idea is "We were referencing Utopia, which used Greek names, and the final boss was a shout-out to a previous summon like so many other things who coincidentally was named after a Greek god."

I guess I could read Utopia for ideas, but, ehh, 12 hour workdays take a lot outta ya...

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I do feel like they were deliberately pulling Greek elements, and Hades and Hythlodaeus also being references was a happy coincidence. The architecture of multiple areas, the fact that they created pegasi, and the existence of debate as a sport are all pulled from Ancient Greece, primarily Athens.