Are the "2hrs" underwhelming?

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Originally Posted by Narfalicious

Maybe tie all the jobs 15 min cooldowns together and make it persist through class/job changes.

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This would be perfect, methinks.

For 2 hours they would be underwhelming. But for 15min abilities I do not think so.

Perhaps 100 fists should last a little bit longer I think.

As people have said before me, the blm one needs a lil work

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

15 minutes.

Not 2 hours.

Wait for "2hours" before complaining about "2hours"

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Doctor Mog funny as ever.

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

Pretend the thread title says "Are the "15min abilities" underwhelming?" then. You know very well they're the substitute for the FFXI 2hrs. Naming conventions aside, it doesn't mean that the skills aren't performing to the ability that they maybe should be. They're just optimized for a much faster sped game.

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Honestly we can't judge some of this stuff in the middle of the rebuild. Right now the game is like a jigsaw puzzle missing a lot of pieces. To give you an example of what I mean, how can we judge the new spells and weapons skills impact on fights without seeing the new battle regimen system implemented?

I said this before in another post I am 100% sure this team has what it takes to pull it all together and make 2.0 a great game. We just have to be patient for seven more months, and as these fixes are getting implemented the anticipation is getting harder and harder to handle.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Doctor Mog funny as ever.





Honestly we can't judge some of this stuff in the middle of the rebuild. Right now the game is like a jigsaw puzzle missing a lot of pieces. To give you an example of what I mean, how can we judge the new spells and weapons skills impact on fights without seeing the new battle regimen system implemented?

I said this before in another post I am 100% sure this team has what it takes to pull it all together and make 2.0 a great game. We just have to be patient for seven more months, and as these fixes are getting implemented the anticipation is getting harder and harder to handle.

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Won't be 7 more months, every patch has been delayed. Either we'll get a half-assed 2.0, a 2.0 without things that they had planned (ToAU anyone?), or a pushed back 2.0. Wasn't 1.22 "planned" for April? Lol at that...seems to me SE has major hemorrhaging issues beyond what we had originally all thought. It shows in XIV, it just seems like no one cares about it except Yoshida. Who knows, I could be wrong and we'll still get 1.22 in mid April as forecasted, but I won't be holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

15 minutes.

Not 2 hours.

Wait for "2hours" before complaining about "2hours"

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Hah, you people never cease to amaze me. The OP even put the subject in question inside quotations for obvious purposes of familiarity due to a lack of established terminology. And yet, this guy gets 47 Likes for this wholly smartass response.

Hey Mog, do you think if you made a thread titled: ODFUIFKLS KDJFKD LDJFDF!!!, containing an OP that reads, "JODFJ 879887 JFJJDF owuriuwr LOL jaojffjsdja, jIOUDF*(SDFU???", 56 challenged individuals would voluntarily throw their undergarments at you?

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

Won't be 7 more months, every patch has been delayed. Either we'll get a half-assed 2.0, a 2.0 without things that they had planned (ToAU anyone?), or a pushed back 2.0. Wasn't 1.22 "planned" for April? Lol at that...seems to me SE has major hemorrhaging issues beyond what we had originally all thought. It shows in XIV, it just seems like no one cares about it except Yoshida. Who knows, I could be wrong and we'll still get 1.22 in mid April as forecasted, but I won't be holding my breath.

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I thought as much too from the delays in 1.20, and 1.21. They have said that 2.0 isn't being delayed by the 1.0 patch delays. I think they have different teams on 2.0 although some content like craft reforms and jobs is directly related to 2.0 even though we get it now. That doesn't mean 2.0 won't see a delay, but I am hopeful. I'd vote for a pushed back 2.0 over the other two.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I thought as much too from the delays in 1.20, and 1.21. They have said that 2.0 isn't being delayed by the 1.0 patch delays. I think they have different teams on 2.0 although some content like craft reforms and jobs is directly related to 2.0 even though we get it now. That doesn't mean 2.0 won't see a delay, but I am hopeful. I'd vote for a pushed back 2.0 over the other two.

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Yea, they need to get it right.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Hah, you people never cease to amaze me. The OP even put the subject in question inside quotations for obvious purposes of familiarity due to a lack of established terminology. And yet, this guy gets 47 Likes for this wholly smartass response.

Hey Mog, do you think if you made a thread titled: ODFUIFKLS KDJFKD LDJFDF!!!, containing an OP that reads, "JODFJ 879887 JFJJDF owuriuwr LOL jaojffjsdja, jIOUDF*(SDFU???", 56 challenged individuals would voluntarily throw their undergarments at you?

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It's all just a popularity thing on these forums. Get the people behind you and you can post anything you want. They will just insta-like your post.

Another person would be called a troll of course.

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Originally Posted by Soulfire

I sure was disappointed hitting Hundred Fists and seeing it vanish straightaway. I was hoping for something thrilling like XI's Hundred Fists, but without the awful cooldown. I wish it lasted more like 45~60 seconds.

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Okay, never mind... I just checked it, and it hits way more than it shows. It's actually not that bad. Now I find myself wishing they would've made it show your character hitting as many times as it does. I want to be able to feel the thrill of beating enemies to a pulp! w

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I think Hundred Fists could stand to last just a bit longer, but yeah it does deal out some heavy DPS for what you do get.

I think the main thing that would sell Hundred Fists is if they made it visually look faster. Not just increasing the speed of the AA, but change the animation to make the blows look faster too.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

I think Hundred Fists could stand to last just a bit longer, but yeah it does deal out some heavy DPS for what you do get.

I think the main thing that would sell Hundred Fists is if they made it visually look faster. Not just increasing the speed of the AA, but change the animation to make the blows look faster too.

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Make it look faster, last a tad bit longer and up the effects visually with trails of energy wisping as your fist fly.

Burst explicitly states it's designed to do more damage when your HP is low. Try to cast it (as part of a combo) straight after a well-used Convert and see what happens.

Only really played blackmage enough to comment on that 15 mins ability and Burst is very underwhelming and ive tested it a bit, even on a really low hp/combo/crit its not that much greater than thundara/thundaga crit.

Got about 1k crit on chimera with it but have to cast it on the combo after having low hp from using convert. Its not very good for a 15 minute cooldown. Doing it without low hp and it does less dmg than thundara combo.

Yeah i did try monks 15 min and it lasted 30 seconds and concluded thats very sucky also. should be 1 minute at least.

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Originally Posted by Tadacho

Burst explicitly states it's designed to do more damage when your HP is low. Try to cast it (as part of a combo) straight after a well-used Convert and see what happens.

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have and it still sucks.

Well I still think they should be something better than just this..

yeah all the 15 minute skills are not really that great, and a good majority of them are easily out classed by your 2 minute skills...flashy is all there good for.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

yeah all the 15 minute skills are not really that great, and a good majority of them are easily out classed by your 2 minute skills...flashy is all there good for.

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Everything is good for something.
But some things are not good for everything.

It is a matter of finding a way to best leverage your new skill, rather than simply expect it to work as a bigger version of the old skills.

Here's a subtle hint: The skills were not chosen blindly and introduced without any thought. Great care and checking has gone in for each and every skill. Therefore there is a reason for why it works as it does, and a benefit to be had by using it. Just because it is not yet popular how it can be beneficial, does not mean it can not be beneficial.

Here's another suggestion:
Iffy Battle.
BRD: Hellfire about to come, my friends need a bit more HP to help them -> Battle Voice!
BLMs: Thunder -> Thundera -> (OW Hellfire, I'm hurting!) -> Burst!
WHM: Hellfire, My poor BLM Friends -> Benediction!
PLD: My Mages are busy recovering -> Hallowed Ground!

(Would give examples for other jobs, but do not understand them well enough).

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Everything is good for something.
But some things are not good for everything.

It is a matter of finding a way to best leverage your new skill, rather than simply expect it to work as a bigger version of the old skills.

Here's a subtle hint: The skills were not chosen blindly and introduced without any thought. Great care and checking has gone in for each and every skill. Therefore there is a reason for why it works as it does, and a benefit to be had by using it. Just because it is not yet popular how it can be beneficial, does not mean it can not be beneficial.

Here's another suggestion:
Iffy Battle.
BRD: Hellfire about to come, my friends need a bit more HP to help them -> Battle Voice!
BLMs: Thunder -> Thundera -> (OW Hellfire, I'm hurting!) -> Burst!
WHM: Hellfire, My poor BLM Friends -> Benediction!
PLD: My Mages are busy recovering -> Hallowed Ground!

(Would give examples for other jobs, but do not understand them well enough).

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Support Roles I can understand, i was leaning more Towards the DD's 15 Minute Skills Flashy but otherwise useless.

I'm wondering if burst gets more contribution from magic attack potency/int than other spells like thundaga. I saw a black mage do 1600 non-crit with burst on barbatos (convert + mega-int potion.) I did about 1500 with a thundaga crit with a mega-int potion. If the burst crit, it may have done close to 2,000.

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

I'm wondering if burst gets more contribution from magic attack potency/int than other spells like thundaga. I saw a black mage do 1600 non-crit with burst on barbatos (convert + mega-int potion.) I did about 1500 with a thundaga crit with a mega-int potion. If the burst crit, it may have done close to 2,000.

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Yeah, I was pretty surprised that the Burs was non-crit. Times like that I wish I had Fraps or something. Hmmmm, I should really look into that now... One thing's for sure though, that hit to my fayce after Burst was DEFinitely a crit by Barbatos ~_~ Can't wait to try and get Burst to crit when I have like 5 HP lol....

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

I don't think they're that bad, but most of them seem to have some small issue with them.

For instance:

* Benedictions AE radius is dreadfully small, you almost need to literally be right next to the person or on top of them for it to hit them.
* Mighty Strikes usually only lasts for an entire combo.
* Hundred Fists is actually quite slow, maybe ~8-10 hits?
* Burst is just strange for a "2hr", wouldn't have Convert or something else be a little more acceptable?
* Dragonfire Dive can be resisted, which is lol. 460+ MACC required for DRG?!

The only 2 that seem "ok" or "useful" are BRDs and PLDs. Thoughts?

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Duuuuuuuuuude relaaaaax....lvl 50 won't be the level cap for ever. New abilities will come, more powerfull than these ones. Just chill and wait :P. I agree Burst is underwhelming, and I rarely ever use Dragonfire Dive. Broadly speaking the dmg output of all is more likely the same. The critical damage done by WAR, might equal the damage done from the 8-10 additional hit of the MNK and from the spike damage from Dragonfire Dive. Burst takes little MP and deals the same damage as Thundaga, that means you can cast another Thunder, for the same amount of MP. In other words, the real damage of Burst is Burst + Thunder. Still underwhelming but hey, when you have no MP it helps a ton.

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Originally Posted by Tyro

Duuuuuuuuuude relaaaaax....lvl 50 won't be the level cap for ever. New abilities will come, more powerfull than these ones. Just chill and wait :P. I agree Burst is underwhelming, and I rarely ever use Dragonfire Dive. Broadly speaking the dmg output of all is more likely the same. The critical damage done by WAR, might equal the damage done from the 8-10 additional hit of the MNK and from the spike damage from Dragonfire Dive. Burst takes little MP and deals the same damage as Thundaga, that means you can cast another Thunder, for the same amount of MP. In other words, the real damage of Burst is Burst + Thunder. Still underwhelming but hey, when you have no MP it helps a ton.

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The point here is not that 50 will be the lvl cap for years, we know that, but if u remember or if u played XI u had that 2hr abbility since lvl 1, but since the beginning the power of those skills were noticed, what i meant and the op. is saying is that this skills doesnt feel like a life saver abbilities, they could double the cooldown and would be still usable for all content and runs u do, if they want to add something it should be added in the best way possible, what i mean is yeah those skills could help you killing faster a hard mob or healing all instantly to full health but u wont be able to use it too often, would be a last resort skill, lots of times when u have ifrit at 5% and then suddenly the tank dies then follows a healer even if u are an awesome damage dealer u can easily wipe that fight in seconds, this skills are life savers damage dealers will deal tons of damage and healers will be using a powerful heal just to die after, u might still wipe but u have 80% to get the job done, this was the mechanic of this type of skill thats why the cooldown lasted 2hrs to reset.

The new "2 hours" or 15 min skills are terrible. Plain and simple. If you do not believe they should be fixed, then you must in all good logic be on the side that they be taken out completely.

Burst- Weak compared to Thundaga, 15min recast. Not worth it. Even tried it after low mp comboing thunder>thundara> convert>burst. Still weak.

Hundred Fists- This skill is pure garbage. Yeah i know mnk/pug dps is mostly auto attack. but i can pop this, have to use 2nd wind or something, and the whole skill lags and poof. my 15min god skill is gone. with like 3 hits. Garbage. raise the duration. It's basically spinning heel but with more luck and cd time.

Dragonfire Dive- I walked outside uldah and used this on a lvl 1 coblyn and did 4400 damage. i walked up to another one and used jump and did 3600 damage. Ring of talons > Dragonfire dive. this is also garbage atm.

And telling people to wait until the cap has been raised is not going to work. in ff11, eagle eye shot pwned from lvl 1 to cap. not to mention these skills are earned, and not just given to you. they need to be much, much stronger or useful. as of right now i dont really use any of them because theyll nerf my dps.

I think the problem here is that people are comparing these quarter-hour abilities to 2-hours from FFXI. They're not the same.

Quarter-hour abilities are not "Oh shit!" button, life savers. They are meant to be used in combat just like any other skill, in the proper situation/combination.

Mighty Strikes alone is kind of okay, but paired with Rampage and Steel Cyclone it's pretty fucking amazing.

Hundred Fists was kind of meh before I realized that each strike counted as two strikes, and each one seems to do more damage than a normal auto attack would.

Dragonfire Dive is not meant to be the ultimate destruction AoE super attack of doom. It's another AoE attack for Dragoon that, when used in the right situation, can do quite a bit of damage.

Sure some of them could be a bit better but again they're not the super obnoxious ridiculously awesome 2-hour abilities. They are FFXIV's quarter-hour abilities, any similarity to FFXI should be ignored as they are completely different in concept and use.

I forget that I even have these 15min skills. Why burst when you can thunder> parsimony>thundara. why hundred fists when you can spinning heel. why dragonfire dive when you can just spam ring of talons all you want. it makes no sense. the argument that they are for battle use is also kinda stupid. so every 15min i get a little bump on my dps from dragonfire dive? If i even remember to cast it? nah, not worth it. theyre designed to help party play. which they do not do. i know SE has been doing well and trying and what not but seriously....quit defending things that need to be changed. it just slows the process down even further.

Using cooldown vs power, shouldn't these abilities all be 1/8th as impactful as FFXI 2hrs? (Since the comparison is being made)

As far as I'm concerned, they are well balanced for their recast timers.

Battle Voice and Hallowed Ground are both solid.

Hundred Fists and Mighty strikes are good, just don't interrupt them with other skills (seems logical enough).

Dragonfire Dive is solid and Benediction just requires some simple party coordination to get the maximum usage out of it.

The only one that might need some tweaking is Burst, but since I haven't spent much time with it, I can't say for certain.

The comparison isnt in how powerful they should be compared to ff11's 2hours, the comparison is in the cooldown timer. As far as im concerned, ff14 is 8 times faster than ff11. so that explains the 15min cooldown timer. the point im getting at is that all the 15min skills can be easily replaced with another skill we already have that isnt 15min cd. getting a group together for benediction would take more time than just casting presence of mind>curaga>curaga. they should be skills unique and unreplacable, with just enough niche to make them situational as well.

i think that blm had a 2hr where no mp was used to help nuking, maybe they could add this later on that would be a good 15min abbility

I honestly like that I can use these skills every 15 minutes. I use them quite a bit of the time and to me its better than having one every 120 minutes. That aside, lets not put out the fact that we have traits. We didn't get enhanced protection the level we got protection. Perhaps we can see a trait that enhances these skills in the future as our level raises.

Edit:
To be more specific I'll use monk skills. Like Enhanced Spinning Heel: Receive no penalty to auto attack when using spinning heel. Enhanced Hundred Fists: Increased the duration of hundred fists.

Rinse and repeat that with other skills. Maybe you all can figure out something you like.

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Originally Posted by elreed

The point here is not that 50 will be the lvl cap for years, we know that, but if u remember or if u played XI u had that 2hr abbility since lvl 1, but since the beginning the power of those skills were noticed, what i meant and the op. is saying is that this skills doesnt feel like a life saver abbilities, they could double the cooldown and would be still usable for all content and runs u do, if they want to add something it should be added in the best way possible, what i mean is yeah those skills could help you killing faster a hard mob or healing all instantly to full health but u wont be able to use it too often, would be a last resort skill, lots of times when u have ifrit at 5% and then suddenly the tank dies then follows a healer even if u are an awesome damage dealer u can easily wipe that fight in seconds, this skills are life savers damage dealers will deal tons of damage and healers will be using a powerful heal just to die after, u might still wipe but u have 80% to get the job done, this was the mechanic of this type of skill thats why the cooldown lasted 2hrs to reset.

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I did play FFXI for like 5 years, and I guess you are right. However, some 2hrs were underwhelming aswell. For instance, the BLU 2hr was near useless... Perfect Dodge, didn't even dodge everything. Some others were amazing, such as Hundred Fists, Chainspell, Manafont, Benediction, Invincible. I agree we should have an ability so strong that can save the day. Maybe, I'll get it later instead of lvl 1.