Regarding Hrothgar and Benchmark

Hrothgar got way to many options and features, the fangs, the fur, different tattoos/horns on some faces, tail slider/different tails, etc....

I doesnt surprise me that they had to cut the resources somewhere and I guess it would of been difficult to fix all those hairstyles on that face of Hroth's.
Might just be my opinion, but its fine as it is. I do not want Hrothgar taking more resources and time, rather see them spend on older races.

Then again, female Viera had only their race hairstyles as well, so they might appear later in the character creator?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Lack of hairstyle choice now suddenly means a race is unfinished. By that logic, female Viera are also unfinished due to the limited hairstyles they can choose (I checked the HW benchmark and Au Ra females had the same amount of options that were available back then).

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Seriously, I'm glad you like them, but they literally have 8 hair options and 2 of them per face. Also, both of the races are unfinished and they will be that way until they get the missing genders. Like I said, we aren't getting 2 new full races, we are getting 2 new halves of races. You can disagree ofc, since after all this is just my opinion. I will continue to support for male viera and I dont really care about male hrot so if u like em I'm glad for u I guess

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Lack of hairstyle choice now suddenly means a race is unfinished. By that logic, female Viera are also unfinished due to the limited hairstyles they can choose (I checked the HW benchmark and Au Ra females had the same amount of options that were available back then).

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I'll get a better idea once I get home and actually get to look at this stuff personally; however, aren't half of the female viera's hairstyles just slightly modified versions of their other half?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

(Also did I miss it or is there no wolf face? All I see is just different lion ones)

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Seems to be a matter of opinion on that one. Some people seemed to think the "glasses" screenshot had a wolf-like face. I didn't think it looked like one.

So possibly that's what he was talking about when he said "wolf face" and there actually isn't one - which makes more sense to me anyway. It's odd enough having a beast-headed tribe apparently in the same evolutionary group as 'humans', let alone trying to explain how they managed to develop features from two unrelated types of animals!

I wouldn't call hrothgar unfinished, but the fact that the hairstyles could be locked to the faces is concerning. Perhaps there are more face options for hrothgar we haven't seen yet. Will that be enough though? I don't know how development stuff works, but wouldn't it be difficult to continue making new hairstyles for hrothgar? The devs would have to make hairstyles unique to the face it's going to be locked with. These heads are different shapes and sizes, so each hairstyle would have to be made specifically for the face it will be locked to. How will this work moving forward? Will hrothgar not get new hair at all? Or will the frequency at which hrothgar get new hairstyles be much slower than any other race?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I really hope that this is only for the benchmark because that would be disappointing. I was fine with them restricting the headgear because most good glamour (imo) are for the other parts of the body and its kinda nice to look at their faces...but hair? That truly just feels more like: We could not be bothered to fix the hair for the race so here have four..(if that is the case of course) which then really leaves me with the question: Why bother with this half race anyway?

(Also did I miss it or is there no wolf face? All I see is just different lion ones)

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i think the first one is wolfish just from how big that snoot is

i hope they at least open up the 8 hair styles for hrothgar so can change without fanta
theres like 50+ hair styles for other races
and Hrothgar get 2 choices per face

Also it did just occur to me i hope they can change the color of there hair at the hair dressers
if not its just tattoos and facial features...

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Originally Posted by Wolfyboy

I'll get a better idea once I get home and actually get to look at this stuff personally; however, aren't half of the female viera's hairstyles just slightly modified versions of their other half?

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Looking back at them, yeah. They pretty much have 9 hairstyles (the other 8 being the same hairstyle, but with a tiny difference). While they have the advantage of not having hairstyles tied to faces, they only really have one more hairstyle over the Hrothgar.

It might be worth asking the devs in an upcoming interview (or have a community rep ask for us? *wink*wink*nudge*nudge*) what the hairstyle situation is for Hrothgar. It seems probable that their unique hairstyles could end-up being locked to certain faces, but then I'm curious about hairstyles you unlock (or even pay for). The situation presents a few questions about things like lack of a "hairstyle" option or if there's any planned alternatives or future additions.

I want to think this limitation is because of the benchmark, its delay, and I will make a better judgement on them once in the actual character creator. If these stay unchanged I am very concerned with will Jandelaine the Aesthetician be a useless npc for us and is the entire mogstation/special event/rare drop hairstyles pointless?

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Originally Posted by Renthas

"Male Viera were sacrificed for a race with limited customization"
I'm gonna refer you to Cidel's signature, can't sacrifice what you never had, or was never promised. :^)

This is rather disappointing, though. I wonder if we will have more options in the launch build.

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When one says race, the expectation is that both members of that race are represented. Official lore exist that expressly states that there are a male and female gender. Also, it has be stated in the the 3.0 lore panel that the WoL exist apart from lore restrictions. For example there is only one WoL but all players are the WoL the suspension of disbelief is needed to appreciate the story as it's presented.

While it is true Male Viera was never specifically promised to the player base, the out right intent of not saying it was not to be implemented is a lie of omission betraying known expectation.

As stated by Yoshi P himself, they made a beast race no one heard of to appease a portion of the player base, due to this being the possible last race brought to the game. Now, the half measure has failed and demand for the missing genders is at all time high. They have effectively doubled their work load unintentionally.

Hrothgar was a mistake in my opinion due to this half measure having the opposite effect of what they intended. Can you honestly say the limited options given in their customization was worth the wait? Even if you can defend it plenty of others are very disappointed with the face/hair lock. It even places a pale over the possibility of female Hrothgar, what limitations will they have?

I may feel the race it's self is a wretched joke of an offering, but players still deserve to have the option of Male and Female Hrothgar.

I want to say that these are just the racial hair styles and they decided to lock em at 2 pre face. That's what I assumed anyway seeing how the Viera could easily have most all the reg hair styles that are shared between races yet only have their race's hair styles to pick from to.

Hoping that's the case... would be kinda really shitty if both races I wanna play can't use the hair styles I paid for or earned in game. I want my outrageous pompadour and 70s Afro option ...

Viera might have more choices for hairstyles, but I think Hrothgar got the better styles in terms of fitting with their overall character design. Several of the Viera styles pay no attention at all to the ear placement of the one race they're exclusive to - long styles parted in the centre and going straight under/through their ears.

I'm not sure how you could do that as a designer. Are the teams that disconnected that the people working on the hairstyles don't get to see it with the ear placement?

Yeah, Viera ears were pretty much taped on after the hairstyles were done. It's easier to notice if you have your mouse cursor have a dance party on the hairstyle options. Did the same with Miqo'te ears which do suffer the same issue... but also noticed they have subtle changes depending on the hairstyle. That was neat to discover.

Yeah, the Miqo'te styles at least try to adjust for the ears - some better than others, and they seem to have gotten more slack about it over time.

Also Au Ra, who have a couple of styles that specifically interact with their secondary horns - but then again, those are functionally part of the hairstyle so the one person would have definitely been putting it all together.

Eh I think for right now the hrothgar faces as is, for what they do make up for the limited hairstyles, my only gripe is that they're stuck to one fur pattern and we didn't get the wolf head :( then again i suppose that was just a mis-translation to begin with. Either way I think they look pretty good I do hope they get access to the hairstyles in the game itself rather than just expanded racial hairs.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Hrothgar got way to many options and features, the fangs, the fur, different tattoos/horns on some faces, tail slider/different tails, etc....

I doesnt surprise me that they had to cut the resources somewhere and I guess it would of been difficult to fix all those hairstyles on that face of Hroth's.
Might just be my opinion, but its fine as it is. I do not want Hrothgar taking more resources and time, rather see them spend on older races.

Then again, female Viera had only their race hairstyles as well, so they might appear later in the character creator?

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The fur is the replacement for the hair. You can see that with how we are able to color them. Which means that hairs got lost for a bit of fur on the chest which could have simply been there from the beginning as part of the race that you cant change. Tail slider and different tails is just the ear or even tail slider that other races have. Horns are fixed for certain faces thus they are nothing but tattoos too.

So they dont have more customization just different ones in the same slots. And instead of hair (which we probably see more than the fur) we only get to change a slight pattern of the fur. Which means that any Hrothgar that wants to change their hairstyle has to buy a new fantasia (if they are fixed) and only has like one other style if they want to stick to their face. Which also means that any reward that has hair is useless for them.

Female Vieras is different because they had their own button for hair which Hrothgars dont which means that they will probably get the other hair styles later while Hrothgar cant imo because they dont even have a button for hair.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Seriously, I'm glad you like them, but they literally have 8 hair options and 2 of them per face. Also, both of the races are unfinished and they will be that way until they get the missing genders. Like I said, we aren't getting 2 new full races, we are getting 2 new halves of races. You can disagree ofc, since after all this is just my opinion. I will continue to support for male viera and I dont really care about male hrot so if u like em I'm glad for u I guess

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There's a good chance that they had them locked down for the benchmark but upon official release it'll be unlocked. Don't judge them as finished or unfinished until the actual expansion launches. That's the only time we can officially determine what we've gotten. Also, you realize you're on a Hrothgar thread, right? This isn't a post related to Viera, so perhaps take that back to the viera post?

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

There's a good chance that they had them locked down for the benchmark but upon official release it'll be unlocked. Don't judge them as finished or unfinished until the actual expansion launches. That's the only time we can officially determine what we've gotten. Also, you realize you're on a Hrothgar thread, right? This isn't a post related to Viera, so perhaps take that back to the viera post?

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I agree. If Viera had a full range of styles in the benchmark and Hrothgar didn't I'd be concerned. It's highly unlikely Viera won't have access to the full range of styles other races do and I would be will to bet that with Hrothgar it's possible they might have fewer choices given hear/face options I'd be very surprised they don't have quite a few choices as well.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Hrothgar cant imo because they dont even have a button for hair.

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Humm that is an interesting observation. I suppose it is possible then that regular hairstyles might not be an option.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

There's a good chance that they had them locked down for the benchmark but upon official release it'll be unlocked. Don't judge them as finished or unfinished until the actual expansion launches. That's the only time we can officially determine what we've gotten. Also, you realize you're on a Hrothgar thread, right? This isn't a post related to Viera, so perhaps take that back to the viera post?

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I watched a youtube video about the heavensward benchmark and yes the Au Ra only had their racial hairstyle in it, so at least for the Viera they will probably get the missing ones. The problem with the Hrothgar is, that they have no separate "hair style" button instead they have the one with fur. Which would mean that SE changed the whole benchmark just for that which would be strange. If they are able to choose hair why not have the button avaiable?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I agree. If Viera had a full range of styles in the benchmark and Hrothgar didn't I'd be concerned. It's highly unlikely Viera won't have access to the full range of styles other races do and I would be will to bet that with Hrothgar it's possible they might have fewer choices given hear/face options I'd be very surprised they don't have quite a few choices as well.

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I'm setting my expectations that they'll at least have all the Hrothgar specific hairstyles available on all heads at release, which I'm fine with. Now, if they make others available too? I'm on board with that as well! I at least want the entirety of the Hrothgar specific hair available for all faces. :)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I watched a youtube video about the heavensward benchmark and yes the Au Ra only had their racial hairstyle in it, so at least for the Viera they will probably get the missing ones. The problem with the Hrothgar is, that they have no separate "hair style" button instead they have the one with fur. Which would mean that SE changed the whole benchmark just for that which would be strange. If they are able to choose hair why not have the button avaiable?

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It could simply be a lack of time to properly work it in so they made presets? I'm not sure, honestly. It's my hope that they'll expand it on actual launch. If not, I'll still play one as they're exactly what I want in a race. They also had the bangs on/off option for viera that didn't work and some Japanese text still present in Hrothgar customization. It seemed kind of rushed together, so I have some hope! :)

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

It could simply be a lack of time to properly work it in so they made presets? I'm not sure, honestly. It's my hope that they'll expand it on actual launch. If not, I'll still play one as they're exactly what I want in a race. They also had the bangs on/off option for viera that didn't work and some Japanese text still present in Hrothgar customization. It seemed kind of rushed together, so I have some hope! :)

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Yes we can hope for it (and I still do) but sadly they also said that they cant just add more different customization because of the way it was coded (or something similar) thus why I fear that fur and color of fur is the exchange for hair and hair color.

The part with the bangs (according to reddit) is a wrong translation and seemingly just means that you can save it or something.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Called it then, laughing now. I was never a fan of Hrothgar, the fact their face/hair are tied shows them to be little more than mask wearing Rogadyne with tails and bad posture. Implementation of Aura didn't separate horns, so i see no reason to expect a change with Hrothgar. I will not continue to call the dev team lazy, however i will see this as further proof Hrothgar was a mistake. Sadly Male Viera were sacrificed for a race with limited customization.

http://i.imgur.com/0Zc7f4d.gif

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It's people like you that makes me wish we never get male Viera in the first place. All this incessant crying and whining while directing that hate towards Hrothgar is really petty.

Male Viera were not "sacrificed" in favor of Hrothgar. Not only it was the other way around, but we also have no idea what they even look like. They don't "exist" aside for a couple of mentions in lore.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Yes we can hope for it (and I still do) but sadly they also said that they cant just add more different customization because of the way it was coded (or something similar) thus why I fear that fur and color of fur is the exchange for hair and hair color.

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Personally I like how they handled the fur color and patterns. They did a great job with it! And if they lock the hairstyles to the heads, then it is what it is and I'll still enjoy the race thoroughly! I never thought we'd get a beastly race and now that we have one, I'm switching! I have expectations set low for the hair situation. Maybe they'll surprise us? If not, I still love the way they look and will be switching day one!

I'm hoping that once we get to the game they either give the hair selection option in the CC or let us use the Summoning bell to change hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I watched a youtube video about the heavensward benchmark and yes the Au Ra only had their racial hairstyle in it, so at least for the Viera they will probably get the missing ones. The problem with the Hrothgar is, that they have no separate "hair style" button instead they have the one with fur. Which would mean that SE changed the whole benchmark just for that which would be strange. If they are able to choose hair why not have the button avaiable?

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Yeah nah, that's not true. I still have the HW benchmark (for some reason) and the Au Ra have the hairstyles that were available as of 2015 (as well as their racial hairstyles). As an example: the last hairstyle option in the HW benchmark is the ponytail, which is not racial exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah nah, that's not true. I still have the HW benchmark (for some reason) and the Au Ra have the hairstyles that were available as of 2015 (as well as their racial hairstyles). As an example: the last hairstyle option in the HW benchmark is the ponytail, which is not racial exclusive.

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I looked again and you are right, some of those were not new..well then lets hope that this does not mean the worst for Viera too. (But at least they have the hair button)

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

It's people like you that makes me wish we never get male Viera in the first place. All this incessant crying and whining while directing that hate towards Hrothgar is really petty.

Male Viera were not "sacrificed" in favor of Hrothgar. Not only it was the other way around, but we also have no idea what they even look like. They don't "exist" aside for a couple of mentions in lore.

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Honestly its quite childish to not want something because others are asking for it, plus ppl are complaining about male hrotgar's hairstyle limitations. I for one, think they look cool ,but lack serious customization

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Honestly its quite childish to not want something because others are asking for it, plus ppl are complaining about male hrotgar's hairstyle limitations. I for one, think they look cool ,but lack serious customization

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I think there's a big difference between asking for something, and hating on others because you didn't get your way. No, I honestly couldn't care less whether we get male Vieras or not. I just don't think it's okay to use that as an excuse to trash on the other race.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I think there's a big difference between asking for something, and hating on others because you didn't get your way. No, I honestly couldn't care less whether we get male Vieras or not. I just don't think it's okay to use that as an excuse to trash on the other race.

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no matter the side people will talk badly about something
always be a some bad eggs in a group but those few don't define the group

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Originally Posted by SoulEchelon

I'm gonna highly suggest waiting until Shadowbringers is officially released before you pick up your torch and pitchforks. Yoshi-P himself stated the benchmark had a chance of not even being released this month. More than likely they wanted to release it alongside the live letter, and thus weren't able to get everything they wanted in. Immediately believing what we're seeing in a benchmark is the absolute final finished product is being blatantly ignorant. Now if Hrothgar were fully released with their current lack of options, THEN I'd agree with the disappointment. But until then I'm not going to kneejerk myself off a cliff.

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My original hope was that they decided to cut that corner in an effort to get the Benchmark out sooner than later. That hope was dashed when I saw that a number of the facial feature options were tied to the hairstyle the face had. I'm reserving final judgement for the release, but right now, I am rather disappointed in what I am seeing.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Hrothgar got way to many options and features, the fangs, the fur, different tattoos/horns on some faces, tail slider/different tails, etc....

I doesnt surprise me that they had to cut the resources somewhere and I guess it would of been difficult to fix all those hairstyles on that face of Hroth's.
Might just be my opinion, but its fine as it is. I do not want Hrothgar taking more resources and time, rather see them spend on older races.

Then again, female Viera had only their race hairstyles as well, so they might appear later in the character creator?

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Hrothgar got no more customization than any other race, and because of the face/hair issue, they got significantly less.

Yes, they have the addition of fur patterns, an option that is covered by 90% of the gear in the game, so it you want to show that off, glamour options are severely limited. The hair color is determined by the fur color, and being able to customize the pattern color has meant they removed the option for hair highlights, so there was a trade-off.

Fangs? There are three options, none, short, or long. The trade off is that there is no "Mouth" option, which every other race has and has four options.

Tattoos are tied to the face chosen, same as all races, no additional customization there.

Horns? That's a face customization option, which Hrothgar have the same number as every other race, many of which are "hair" customization options with the addition of a braid or another tuft of hair.

Tails? Exact same options available as Mi'qote and Au'ra, no additional customization.

Ultimately however, my only actual complaint is the face/hair and that we are essentially limited to two hairstyles. You pick a face, you get hair A or hair B, that's it, maybe a couple options in your facial fatures. As I said above, I will reserve any real displeasure until I see a final product, but as it stands right now, a face and hair combination is the easiest way to create a character that looks different from the others of your race and if those of us wanting to play Hrothgar lose that option, they have limited variety to essentially 8 options for Hrothgar.

Yes, Viera had racial hairstyles only, however, the hairstyles weren't tied to a specific face, leading to a potential 68 combinations of face/hair. Even if you take the fact that some of the hairstyles are just slight adjustments, leaving 9 unique hairstyles, that is still 36 variants. It would also stand to reason that Viera will have the option of vanity rewards and Mog Station items, even if not immediately, eventually. It is also ignoring the fact that Viera have access to Hair highlights, which allows them to further differentiate themselves from the rest of the Viera running around.

I'm thinking (hoping?) that this is just showing an in-progress character creator. With the Viera, you're supposed to be able to right-click to add/hide bangs, but currently all styles are shown as their own individual option. The Viera /laugh emote I'm a bit more worried about as their mouth doesn't open. Hopefully that's just a placeholder as well D:

They can expand on some of these options later if they want to.

Why don't we just be happy they are giving us something new?

Am I the only one who is irked by the fact that their belly buttons are visible and also find their human feet to be totally mismatched?

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Originally Posted by Alleo

(Also did I miss it or is there no wolf face? All I see is just different lion ones)

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In hindsight, that interview now sounds more like the animals mentioned (wolves, lions, etc) were the pool of animals they were deciding between. The options we got are all pretty feline looking, and the lore blurb only mentions lions so lions won out.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I watched a youtube video about the heavensward benchmark and yes the Au Ra only had their racial hairstyle in it, so at least for the Viera they will probably get the missing ones. The problem with the Hrothgar is, that they have no separate "hair style" button instead they have the one with fur. Which would mean that SE changed the whole benchmark just for that which would be strange. If they are able to choose hair why not have the button avaiable?

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I just checked my old HW bench and I have bad news: they had every haircut that was available on 3.0 release.

https://imgur.com/tew3D6t
https://i.imgur.com/tew3D6t.png

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Originally Posted by Halivel

I just checked my old HW bench and I have bad news: they had every haircut that was available on 3.0 release.

https://imgur.com/tew3D6t
https://i.imgur.com/tew3D6t.png

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Yeah someone mentioned this and sadly it seems to be true. Hopefully that does not mean that we wont even get the rest for the female Vieras..because then I wont change because changing hair is important for the looks of a character and it would cheapen getting hairstyles as rewards too.

I am really disappointed by SE for doing this. Not just the face/hairstyle combo thing on Hrothgar, but the hair lock on both new races is an absolute no go for me. It would really bother me, if I had to choose between all my bought and unlocked hairstyles and a cool new race.
Gladly, thats not how SE seems to think and work. I believe that they will give their customers what they paid for. Otherwise, they have to expect a shitstorm extraordinaire.

Well, I was able to create a Hrothgar that I deemed acceptable for a racechange. I will be satisfied as long as he will be able to wear the Cid Googles from the Mogshop. =D