Bye bye turbo craft bots!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

wired usb controls? alot of people use wireless

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I save teh monies on batteries, more alcohol.

Even if they set the bar low like every 10 synths I think this is an acceptable measure to help combat botting. The inconvience that genuine, honest crafters have deal with is minimal at best.

I have a slight feeling most of the opposition is/will come from people who are guilty of turbo spam or botting themselves.

At least SE isn't auto logging players out once they reach a certain threshold or force players to use one of those cyrpto key thingies.

Even if this measure halts 1 bot, it's well worth the effort. I'm sick of seeing the same players day in day out hour after hour sitting there crafting/fishing doing nothing but cheating.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Even if they set the bar low like every 10 synths I think this is an acceptable measure to help combat botting. The inconvience that genuine, honest crafters have deal with is minimal at best.

I have a slight feeling most of the opposition is/will come from people who are guilty of turbo spam or botting themselves.

At least SE isn't auto logging players out once they reach a certain threshold or force players to use one of those cyrpto key thingies.

Even if this measure halts 1 bot, it's well worth the effort. I'm sick of seeing the same players day in day out hour after hour sitting there crafting/fishing doing nothing but cheating.

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No it's not, having actual GM's "investigate" would be better. Botter's won't give a fuck at this change, they are doing something else if they are botting, what would they care if it took 15 seconds out of their time they are NOT spending pressing enter?

Again botters won't care, people using turbo will just have to check in every now and then so they can go back. It hurts the legit people more, it's a stupid change.

ENTER THE CAPTCHA AFTER EVERY SYNTH LOL.

It won't lol.

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Originally Posted by Treach

No it's not, having actual GM's "investigate" would be better. Botter's won't give a fuck at this change, they are doing something else if they are botting, what would they care if it took 15 seconds out of their time they are NOT spending pressing enter?

Again botters won't care, people using turbo will just have to check in every now and then so they can go back. It hurts the legit people more, it's a stupid change.

ENTER THE CAPTCHA AFTER EVERY SYNTH LOL.

It won't lol.

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what if this aids in the investigation though...


just think for a second, someone hits enter 1000 times while in a synth position, nothing suspicious there

now take ytour botter, who hits enter 500 times while synthing, then stands an hits it 500 times while standing there

can we say proof?

all depends on how they log key strokes and such of course, the ones that actualy put entries into the game

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Even if they set the bar low like every 10 synths I think this is an acceptable measure to help combat botting. The inconvience that genuine, honest crafters have deal with is minimal at best.

I have a slight feeling most of the opposition is/will come from people who are guilty of turbo spam or botting themselves.

At least SE isn't auto logging players out once they reach a certain threshold or force players to use one of those cyrpto key thingies.

Even if this measure halts 1 bot, it's well worth the effort. I'm sick of seeing the same players day in day out hour after hour sitting there crafting/fishing doing nothing but cheating.

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No offense, but it makes perfect sense that someone who has no vested interest in crafting at all would think it's ok to make a crafter forcibly stand after every ten synths. I mean unless you have some mid level crafter character that's put in a lot of time crafting but isn't maxed yet. Then your opinion is just weird.

That's like saying it's ok for SE to make you click a pop up captcha every ten mob kills. Do you think that's ok too? I mean after all, there are bots out there that grind on mobs too.

Personally, I think something that extreme in any form is quite ridiculous and I have confidence SE has not been that rash. They are trying to make their game more appealing, not annoying.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

No offense, but it makes perfect sense that someone who has no vested interest in crafting at all would think it's ok to make a crafter forcibly stand after every ten synths. I mean unless you have some mid level crafter character that's put in a lot of time crafting but isn't maxed yet. Then your opinion is just weird.

That's like saying it's ok for SE to make you click a pop up captcha every ten mob kills. Do you think that's ok too? I mean after all, there are bots out there that grind on mobs too.

Personally, I think something that extreme in any form is quite ridiculous and I have confidence SE has not been that rash. They are trying to make their game more appealing, not annoying.

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having to do 2 extra keystrokes after youve done every 1000 or so isnt really annoying, its moreso just like getting a popup asking if you are still there.(one that cant be exited with another stroke of the enter key)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

having to do 2 extra keystrokes after youve done every 1000 or so isnt really annoying, its moreso just like getting a popup asking if you are still there.(one that cant be exited with another stroke of the enter key)

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I've got no problem with the function. The idea that it would be perfectly acceptable for it to be at a high frequency is what I have a problem with. 1000 clicks is hardly 10 synths. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

In that theory only the people using turbo controllers would be the ones pressing enter 500 times, if they already use a turbo controller they probably don't have the self righteous morals some of these people have and will just go download a free craft bot.

The bots aren't going to be phased by this stupid change, you'd be better off policing the crafters yourself.

I'm not saying bots are okay to use, it's clearly against the tos, but this change is stupid and it's sad they didn't think it through enough to realize they are only going to annoy the legit players more as the botters will just laugh and continue to get free stuffs with no time spent while they have to press another button every x amount of crafts.

This is not the way to stop botting.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I've got no problem with the function. The idea that it would be perfectly acceptable for it to be at a high frequency is what I have a problem with. 1000 clicks is hardly 10 synths. I'm sure we can both agree on that.

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oh yeah, 10 synths is moreso about 100-150 clicks or so tops(each synth takes 4 clicks just to get the recipe started and minimum 6 clicks per synth, probly closer to 8-10 though)

i think we may see it as low as 10 synths, but id see it more reasonable around the 30 mark or so, which would be closer to the 400-500 mark which isnt as bad


yes hasty hands crafters will see this more often, but you know what, they are already going fast, and they definately will see it the moment it happens so its not like they cant get rigfht back down and do it again

itl for sure annoy the turbo crafters and botters, while the rest of us who are legit will notice it and compensate immediately as if nothing happened at all(we are already patient crafters to have gone this far for the most part, whats a few more seconds now and then)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

having to do 2 extra keystrokes after youve done every 1000 or so isnt really annoying, its moreso just like getting a popup asking if you are still there.(one that cant be exited with another stroke of the enter key)

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1000 synths is like what...18-20 hours of pressing enter straight? I think we can assume it's not going to be that high, and if they were SOMEWHAT smart they'd make it a random number between two values so you can't properly time it with a turbo controller.

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Originally Posted by Treach

In that theory only the people using turbo controllers would be the ones pressing enter 500 times, if they already use a turbo controller they probably don't have the self righteous morals some of these people have and will just go download a free craft bot.

The bots aren't going to be phased by this stupid change, you'd be better off policing the crafters yourself.

I'm not saying bots are okay to use, it's clearly against the tos, but this change is stupid and it's sad they didn't think it through enough to realize they are only going to annoy the legit players more as the botters will just laugh and continue to get free stuffs with no time spent while they have to press another button every x amount of crafts.

This is not the way to stop botting.

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but it is a way to stop a massive form of cheating thats easily available to anyone

turbo controls are illegal in the way 99% of the people use them(taping buttons, not being at computer etc etc) and this is gonna catch them

itl also catch the "dumb bots" the ones who are so simple it cant do anything more then simple functions(like hitting enter)


it wont catch the complex ones, but those are few and far between anyway in comparison

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

oh yeah, 10 synths is moreso about 100-150 clicks or so tops(each synth takes 4 clicks just to get the recipe started and minimum 6 clicks per synth, probly closer to 8-10 though)

i think we may see it as low as 10 synths, but id see it more reasonable around the 30 mark or so, which would be closer to the 400-500 mark which isnt as bad


yes hasty hands crafters will see this more often, but you know what, they are already going fast, and they definately will see it the moment it happens so its not like they cant get rigfht back down and do it again

itl for sure annoy the turbo crafters and botters, while the rest of us who are legit will notice it and compensate immediately as if nothing happened at all(we are already patient crafters to have gone this far for the most part, whats a few more seconds now and then)

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I'd be ok with closer to 30 since that's almost near to an hours worth of synthing without hasty hand.

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Originally Posted by Treach

1000 synths is like what...18-20 hours of pressing enter straight? I think we can assume it's not going to be that high, and if they were SOMEWHAT smart they'd make it a random number between two values so you can't properly time it with a turbo controller.

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18-20 hours easily, a standard spammer averages 1 per minute, sometimes slightly less, so you end up between 50-60 a minute depending on your success rate with individual standards

and i wasnt talking every 1000 synths, i was talking 1000 keystrokes(which equats to too many synths in itself still, itd take at least 80-100 synths) which is still quite a while, your looking at well over an hour of possible botting.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I'd be ok with closer to 30 since that's almost near to an hours worth of synthing without hasty hand.

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half an hour actualy.....which is still a good chunk of time

an hour would be if you were going for hqs and bolding alot(which is another story)

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Originally Posted by Treach

1000 synths is like what...18-20 hours of pressing enter straight? I think we can assume it's not going to be that high, and if they were SOMEWHAT smart they'd make it a random number between two values so you can't properly time it with a turbo controller.

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No, sadly. You can easily get upwards of 1000 enter presses in less than 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

half an hour actualy.....which is still a good chunk of time

an hour would be if you were going for hqs and bolding alot(which is another story)

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Or you just really like using the abilities instead of just spamming standard :P

There are bots that will do your leves for you, thats 3-5 synths, stopping changing tool, starting again and repeating to complete 8 different leves. You think in any way, standing every 10-20-40-100 will do anything?
I dont think it will be standing, but, What does it really matter to any of you, there are RMT that are a problem. but these crafters do fish for shards. You shouldnt ever find a RMT with all crafts 50. So who you are complaining about are the crafters that make your high lvl gear and weapons and answer your shouts to have melds done.
http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/...hug-wolves.png

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Or you just really like using the abilities instead of just spamming standard :P

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that falls in lines with bold spamming instead too cuz your being really careful and trying not to fail. yeah i guess people trying to level on recipes much higher then them would fall under this catagory too

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Originally Posted by Treach

Ok so I'm going to use my usb controller and 50 extensions so I can walk into the kitchen and make food while pressing X. BAN WORTHY?

You guys are getting a little ridiculous with all this "AMG UR A TOS BREAKER".

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1st off if you need to go make food log out, is that an issue? 2nd. are you admitting to useing a turbo controller while you go and make food? Seriously all players need to do is to log out or stop whatever it is they are doing and go eat or what not. You really are not gonna lose that much time.

So many free crafting bots, not so many free turbo controllers.

Dumb bots that press enter are no different then turbo controllers....and yes there are quite a few free craft bots that you can just download for free.

Were you hit with a turbo controller as a child? All you are doing is hating on turbo controllers and not even trying to think of a better way to stop botting, just jumping on a bandwagon, pitchfork and torch in hand. You don't even realize bots are the bigger problem as they can be programed to so much more and bypass stupid fixes like this.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

No, sadly. You can easily get upwards of 1000 enter presses in less than 2 hours.

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I misread and was talking about synths, not how fast you can press enter.

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Originally Posted by alienbaby

There are bots that will do your leves for you, thats 3-5 synths, stopping changing tool, starting again and repeating to complete 8 different leves. You think in any way, standing every 10-20-40-100 will do anything?
I dont think it will be standing, but, What does it really matter to any of you, there are RMT that are a problem. but these crafters do fish for shards. You shouldnt ever find a RMT with all crafts 50. So who you are complaining about are the crafters that make your high lvl gear and weapons and answer your shouts to have melds done.
http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/...hug-wolves.png

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Personally, I think you're right. In the end, I really don't feel this is going to do much because I can't imagine how SE could design this system to where a bot programmer could not replicate the input functions of an active player. In my mind, the bots will just adapt and we'll be left getting annoyed after a while of doing virtual squats.

Oh well. As long as it isn't super intrusive, I'll get used to it. I'm sure if it doesn't work out as most of the stuff they tried to do to route TOS breakers that they will yank it.

EDIT: Oh, and when I think interruption to synthing, I just immediately think of standing up so I keep equating that with it when I post. I'm not claiming this is how it will be as obviously I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Maxthunder

1st off if you need to go make food log out, is that an issue? 2nd. are you admitting to useing a turbo controller while you go and make food? Seriously all players need to do is to log out or stop whatever it is they are doing and go eat or what not. You really are not gonna lose that much time.

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Sarcasm bro, I don't even have a 50 craft.

Yep this reminds me of DRM.

The pirates just strip DRM out and copy games/movies without restriction.

Law-abiding consumers are the ones that suffer from DRM and its restrictions.

Same thing here: botters are gonna bot. Easy to write scripts to overcome any simple extra step to get crafting again.

Instead its just the legitimate players that have one-two more annoying steps than they had before. Good job SE.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Personally, I think you're right. In the end, I really don't feel this is going to do much because I can't imagine how SE could design this system to where a bot programmer could not replicate the input functions of an active player. In my mind, the bots will just adapt and we'll be left getting annoyed after a while of doing virtual squats.

Oh well. As long as it isn't super intrusive, I'll get used to it. I'm sure if it doesn't work out as most of the stuff they tried to do to route TOS breakers that they will yank it.

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Exactly, hopefully they can come up with something better that doesn't punish the legit crafters.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Personally, I think you're right. In the end, I really don't feel this is going to do much because I can't imagine how SE could design this system to where a bot programmer could not replicate the input functions of an active player. In my mind, the bots will just adapt and we'll be left getting annoyed after a while of doing virtual squats.

Oh well. As long as it isn't super intrusive, I'll get used to it. I'm sure if it doesn't work out as most of the stuff they tried to do to route TOS breakers that they will yank it.

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there are three types.
#1 are memory bots like a parser that read memory and turn it into info as it happens, writes use this to tell when the orb is unstable and when there is actions to do by name. The bot of this type would look like a person crafting and hitting their actions in the order they want.
This type has to be remapped every patch, no matter how small.
The second is a scrypt that will follow the same thing over and over in a loop. The writer sets up "if this, then do that, if not then do this" type of script. Using pixels on the active window to tell if the person is picking the ingredient or crafting, where it will only do the last action on the list where there is one.
This one only has to change when the game color or pixels change.

The last is also a script, but without any pixel finding, where it just hits enter over and over in that loop.
This one would stop working if the enter loop was not always in that order. Like before with the default being on requested...
SE made the change, SE fawked it up for noob scripters and turbos to take a quick easy lvl or 2

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Instead its just the legitimate players that have one-two more annoying steps than they had before. Good job SE.

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So you don't think it's a good trade-off to remove the afk "turbo crafters" (I'm not talking about bots here) if in return, all the legitimate players have to do is enter crafting mode again every hour or so? You don't mind that everyone and their mother has several crafts capped and that your goldsmith 50 is basically worthless?

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Originally Posted by Efrye

So you don't think it's a good trade-off to remove the afk "turbo crafters" (I'm not talking about bots here) if in return, all the legitimate players have to do is enter crafting mode again every hour or so? You don't mind that everyone and their mother has several crafts capped and that your goldsmith 50 is basically worthless?

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alot of people think itl be so extreme they wont wanna bother anymore

or they know this is the end of their turbo control(usualy this)

so of course they are against it

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Originally Posted by Efrye

So you don't think it's a good trade-off to remove the afk "turbo crafters" (I'm not talking about bots here) if in return, all the legitimate players have to do is enter crafting mode again every hour or so? You don't mind that everyone and their mother has several crafts capped and that your goldsmith 50 is basically worthless?

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I guess the real question is how many people guilty of cheating the system are turbo controller users and how many are bot users that will simply just get a new bot that accounts for the change. If the turbo users are the majority, sure that's great. But if not, it would seem to be a pretty annoying "feature" for so little benefit that in our eyes will look like nothing has changed at all.

EDIT: But yes, you are right. I'm tired of crafting being worthless. At least they are trying to do something to help the situation.

Is this cheating if you are not doing it by hand?
http://i.imgur.com/fpu82.gif
Maybe we live in a video game and inventions are just users using BOTs on us?

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I guess the real question is how many people guilty of cheating the system are turbo controller users and how many are bot users that will simply just get a new bot that accounts for the change. If the turbo users are the majority, sure that's great. But if not, it would seem to be a pretty annoying "feature" for so little benefit that in our eyes will look like nothing has changed at all.

EDIT: But yes, you are right. I'm tired of crafting being worthless. At least they are trying to do something to help the situation.

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a majority of the people i know who do it have some sort of button pressing program or turbo control, and are super defensive about using them, i mean seriously go look at the turbo control threads and see how many people cried out about how they were so ok to use and its not fair we were singling them out

there have been a few new ones ive come across recently too, theres a certain miner on our sevrer running a program that lets him mine in 1 spot continuously(ive undone my filters to watch him, he hits a node 8 times, then takes his tool out and repeats it over and over, always at same node) but those are few and far between in comparison

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

a majority of the people i know who do it have some sort of button pressing program or turbo control, and are super defensive about using them, i mean seriously go look at the turbo control threads and see how many people cried out about how they were so ok to use and its not fair we were singling them out

there have been a few new ones ive come across recently too, theres a certain miner on our sevrer running a program that lets him mine in 1 spot continuously(ive undone my filters to watch him, he hits a node 8 times, then takes his tool out and repeats it over and over, always at same node) but those are few and far between in comparison

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Well crap, that sounds like an outright hack. If they are that good at programming, I wonder why they are wasting time writing programs to collect worthless raw materials in XIV. LOL

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Well crap, that sounds like an outright hack. If they are that good at programming, I wonder why they are wasting time writing programs to collect worthless raw materials in XIV. LOL

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yeah, i reported it of course

interesting fact though, i have seen another bot that runs gathering out anywhere too, and it has a bad habit of glitching(character will continuously teleport over and over as he takes out his axe/hatchet) until he starts mining/logging a node, and then, he is at least 20-30 yards away by the time he starts to actualy mine/log it.

more interesting, its the same shell, different people, every time i see this happen, some may call it some sort of lag, but there is no coincidence its the same shell, and only people in that shell every time i see it, and that im not the only one who has witnessed it coming only from them

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Originally Posted by alienbaby

Is this cheating if you are not doing it by hand?
http://i.imgur.com/fpu82.gif
Maybe we live in a video game and inventions are just users using BOTs on us?

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I'd say it is if you are creating that garment for someone who specifically states in the business contract that all articles of clothing produced are to be hand-stitched and any use of third party equipment is strictly prohibited.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Well crap, that sounds like an outright hack. If they are that good at programming, I wonder why they are wasting time writing programs to collect worthless raw materials in XIV. LOL

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um.. doing the leve for gathering where you have to find the superior item, you can 100% tell where it is and you can keep gathering from that node by putting your tool away and re-gathering, what they are doing is trying to get sweat of brow to proc. HA. lack of understanding on how the game works is funny

PS there is no way to "hack" the game to give you more nodes or drops or gear or free lvls., there are only memory edits to move you along. placing you in areas before the 14 servers do, then they update.
but then you get stuck in a wall and have to call a gm to get you out
http://i.imgur.com/OYtXR.gif

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah, i reported it of course

interesting fact though, i have seen another bot that runs gathering out anywhere too, and it has a bad habit of glitching(character will continuously teleport over and over as he takes out his axe/hatchet) until he starts mining/logging a node, and then, he is at least 20-30 yards away by the time he starts to actualy mine/log it.

more interesting, its the same shell, different people, every time i see this happen, some may call it some sort of lag, but there is no coincidence its the same shell, and only people in that shell every time i see it, and that im not the only one who has witnessed it coming only from them

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I've actually seen the far away harvesting before in Horizon. There were some people late night harvesting trees, as was I, but they were able to harvest from like 30 yalms away. It really seemed suspicious, but I chalked it up to server response time or something.

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Originally Posted by alienbaby

um.. doing the leve for gathering where you have to find the superior item, you can 100% tell where it is and you can keep gathering from that node by putting your tool away and re-gathering, what they are doing is trying to get sweat of brow to proc. HA. lack of understanding on how the game works is funny

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nope this wasnt that, i was actualy watching him, i was seeing him gather 8 seperate items in a row and then put his axe away and pull it back out
that IS NOT a leve or any type of misunderstanding, thats a straight out hack

its along the same lines as the fish hack that lets you fish anywhere in game wether or not there is water

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I've actually seen the far away harvesting before in Horizon. There were some people late night harvesting trees, as was I, but they were able to harvest from like 30 yalms away. It really seemed suspicious, but I chalked it up to server response time or something.

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when you see it, take a look at their shell, i dont wanna name names(partly cuz its against forum rules) but youll start to notice a pattern on who does it, and how its always them and their shell doing it and no one else

at first it just looks like a lag bug perhaps, but then it starts to get suspicious and just cant be coincidence after youve seen enough of it

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Originally Posted by alienbaby

um.. doing the leve for gathering where you have to find the superior item, you can 100% tell where it is and you can keep gathering from that node by putting your tool away and re-gathering, what they are doing is trying to get sweat of brow to proc. HA. lack of understanding on how the game works is funny

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No need to get aggressive. I know what you're talking about now that you've explained it that way and I've done that myself to take advantage of guardian aspect.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

No need to get aggressive. I know what you're talking about now that you've explained it that way and I've done that myself to take advantage of guardian aspect.

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funny is...its a waste of time to do that lol, in the time you wasted trying to get sweat to proc, you coulda gathered more times for more exp then you waited to get in that single hit(and you woulda had more materials)
and you probly wasted enough time to lose some of your exp bonus for quick completion