Going on 2 hours of radio silence after logging in to find my character in GM jail

Dang that's messed up.

If its a first offense its probably just going to be a couple days ban

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by orderlyanarchist

reported for 3rd party programs. I used to upload logs on request for folks when teaching savage raids. Guess i got reported for it.

---

What’s sad is that other players were asking for a way to check their own performance—probably so they could actively try to improve as a player—but someone had to go and report you for it because “rawr its bad”.

You’ll most likely get a temporary suspension, which really sucks. I’m not going to lie.
I do think you’re owed an apology for your unnecessary wait, though.

Well atleast a GM showed up finally. What was the punishment for the 3rd party program stuff (which I find silly)?

Usually people say on the forums that, as long as you don't use it for harassment, parsers are fine (but still in a grey area). I guess not, I guess it's in the solid "not allowed" if OP got punished for it when people explicitly asked for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Usually people say on the forums that, as long as you don't use it for harassment, parsers are fine (but still in a grey area). I guess not, I guess it's in the solid "not allowed" if OP got punished for it when people explicitly asked for it.

---

Its more like "Out of sight, out of mind" type of deal, and in this case not quite out of sight for atleast one player.

Also it wouldn't surprise me if OP can't talk about what their punishment is, but could be wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Usually people say on the forums that, as long as you don't use it for harassment, parsers are fine (but still in a grey area). I guess not, I guess it's in the solid "not allowed" if OP got punished for it when people explicitly asked for it.

---

I'm going to say it's still probably fine, we may not have heard the entire story. In fact I'll lean on that.
But fine is still "fine" as in don't talk about it too much ingame at all. Everyone knows they exist, and everyone knows the majority of raiders will use it. That's fine, but harassment can find itself in places unwarranted sometimes.
What if there was a grey parser who ended up getting told something they probably needed to hear, but didn't take kindly to it? I mean, harassment is harassment, even if intent is good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Usually people say on the forums that, as long as you don't use it for harassment, parsers are fine (but still in a grey area). I guess not, I guess it's in the solid "not allowed" if OP got punished for it when people explicitly asked for it.

---

It's a "use it but don't mention it" case. OP confirmed on chat that he's uploading the logs to his party and that one person reported them. Nothing OP can do about it in this case.

They're trying to give me a 10 day ban. I've never received so much as a warning before, and consider myself a really positive player within the community. I spent most of my time trying to help and teach players through their first experiences with high end content.

My GM is generally ignoring me for 10 minutes each time i ask for a platform to appeal my punishment, and then giving me a copy paste response that has nothing to do with my question.

This worries me because as a lowly PS4 player I always beg for my own numbers or logs to be uploaded so that I’m not a potato in savage. I never wanna be the issue someone else gets banned D:

My condolences. That just really sucks :/

Whenever I've asked for my logs I've always made it a habit to either send a direct tell or ask on discord. I think its absolutely ridiculous that its banable offense when its being used responsibly. Like maybe I'd understand if a person used logs to then shame someone cuz their numbers were not up to snuff. But just for having it and using it harmlessly... shouldn't be a big deal.

EDIT: Op that is down right ridiculous. I'd take that QA imo. They first summon you, then you're there for four hours without a word. Now they're taking ten mins per response that are unhelpful and don't answer any question? Blow up their phone line. Seriously that is bs and idc how much trouble and supposed 'harm' you did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by orderlyanarchist

They're trying to give me a 10 day ban. I've never received so much as a warning before, and consider myself a really positive player within the community. I spent most of my time trying to help and teach players through their first experiences with high end content.

My GM is generally ignoring me for 10 minutes each time i ask for a platform to appeal my punishment, and then giving me a copy paste response that has nothing to do with my question.

---

It is technically against the rules. You can't really appeal something for "admitting in chat" to breaking the rules. That why you never, ever post in game chat with randoms links to fflogs or parse numbers.

Its strictly don't ask don't tell. If people want info, discord is where to go for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anselmet

Whenever I've asked for my logs I've always made it a habit to either send a direct tell or ask on discord. I think its absolutely ridiculous that its banable offense when its being used responsibly. Like maybe I'd understand if a person used logs to then shame someone cuz their numbers were not up to snuff. But just for having it and using it harmlessly... shouldn't be a big deal.

---

Its because its sniffing the game network traffic that it is against the rules.

I mean sadly if the request was done in game then yeah OP is kind of in a hard spot since they have logs as proof. Granted, I do feel we are missing some context, but if they do have ingame chat logs and you have a stickler GM I could see them taking action against your account. Though 10 day seems like overall, but never been in GM jail been reported countless times and had GM's speak with me but never been in jail before. All best if true OP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Its because its sniffing the game network traffic that it is against the rules.

---

Excuse me- but uh sniffing? What does that mean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anselmet

Excuse me- but uh sniffing? What does that mean?

---

Packet sniffing - reading the data that is sent over the network.

A packet analyzer (also known as a packet sniffer) is a computer program or piece of computer hardware that can intercept and log traffic that passes over a digital network or part of a network. Packet capture is the process of intercepting and logging traffic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Packet sniffing - reading the data that is sent over the network.

A packet analyzer (also known as a packet sniffer) is a computer program or piece of computer hardware that can intercept and log traffic that passes over a digital network or part of a network. Packet capture is the process of intercepting and logging traffic.

---

Ah ty for the information. But does it actually do anything to the servers such as stress it or cause lag?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anselmet

Ah ty for the information. But does it actually do anything to the servers such as stress it or cause lag?

---

In all likelihood? no. But you could use it to technically see how the game runs, and clone it. which is bad.

Talk about overkill. Maybe I'm just used too much to WoW (having played it over a decade), but parsing logs seems super benign and not worthy of even a 1 day ban, let alone 10.

Dont really have much remorse for the OP here. Either keep it out of in game chat or just dont do it. It's never been a secret that 3rd party programs of any kind <including simple things like hair mods> are against the TOS. Your 10 day ban is justifiable in the eyes of SE. You agree to the terms when you log in to the game. You broke that agreement, so its on you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LCROSSE

Dont really have much remorse for the OP here. Either keep it out of in game chat or just dont do it. It's never been a secret that 3rd party programs of any kind <including simple things like hair mods> are against the TOS. Your 10 day ban is justifiable in the eyes of SE. You agree to the terms when you log in to the game. You broke that agreement, so its on you.

---

While that may be the case, making them sit in a GM Gaol for hours is, quite frankly, inexcusable. And 10 days for a first offense (if this is OP's first offense - I believe they said they've never had any other strikes against them) is a bit harsh, I think. Personally, I think some context should be considered. This isn't a black-and-white kind of scenario.

Break the ToS and get nuked, this isn't wow.

God, you really can get anyone banned for anything now days. Zero appeal system = GM's can do what they want. We all discussed this back when they changed the rules to give GM more powers.

I understand that people like to pug but I urge all of you to keep raiding conversation out of game chat. Use discord, and only discuss raid dps or optimization there. It's just not worth your accounts to have a player who feels they shouldn't be accountable for their own game play report you.

Meanwhile, hundreds of players are busy being involved in actual cheating via DoL/H bots and hunt sniffers but the GMs can't/won't do squat about them, nor will the STF.

It's stupid as heck to get a 10 day suspension simply because you mentioned a third party program and someone decided to report you. That's deserving of a warning at worst for a first time offense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

Meanwhile, hundreds of players are busy being involved in actual cheating via DoL/H bots but the GMs can't/won't do squat about them, nor will the STF.

It's stupid as heck to get a 10 day suspension simply because you mentioned a third party program and someone decided to report you. That's deserving of a warning at worst for a first time offense.

---

Yeah, this basically, people have gotten away with far worse, that's what makes this particular incident really unfair, against the TOS or not. :T

The saddest thing is that I've seen some of the odd few botters who do actually get caught whining about getting a three day suspension on forums associated with said programs.

Meaning confirmed cheaters are getting a milder punishment then someone who simply mentioned using a harmless parsing tool.

The ToS enforcement is really a huge joke.

MI saw that screen OP posted in the GM jail. This is literally their first offense otherwise you'd see a strike in their support section because they don't go away. Of course as I beat this dead horse, this wouldn't have happened if SE would stop pretending this isn't a numbers mmo and give it's players(half of which being console players, have no means to fine tune their gameplay without depending on pc players in SECRET LOL) a freaking parser.

Oh but they could never do that. We can't have our hyper casuals(You know the ones that fail dps checks on solo duties because they're literally spamming Aeolian Edge and not the combo the ability itself) aware of the possibility that they could be playing wrong! It'd hurt their precious feefees and quit the game forever and that's one less sub for SE and that's not good business no sir! It's not like we could enfore the same rules of parser harassment that exist today with the same or more intensity either no sir! Better to ban the hell out of someone for only wanting to help someone who asked right?

I'm grateful for all the hard work they do to make this game but this is the one thing that absolutely pisses me off especially as a ps4 player. This willful ignorance towards the divide of casual and hardcore players and the gaping CANYON of a skill gap between them. Why? Because they allow it! No skill checks of any form whatsoever. No item level caps for leveling dungeons so people can go into SB lvl dungeons with lv50 gear, no self improvement or optimization tools other than that joke of a striking dummy, the hall of the novice is OPTIONAL so even jump potters can come in and wreck the place with 0 basic fundamental understanding of the game if they want lol
It's comical honestly, a 10 day ban for a first offense because of the sorry state that "wanting to help people improve" is in.

Can't use dirty parsers to improve but you can sure jump into doma castle with a full set of i235 gear while spamming bio making a 20 minute run into a 40-50 minute run! Or jump into a savage clear run and wipe the party 6-7 times to hard inrage because they have no idea what a "rotation" is and they just want to have fun playing "their way"! It gives me conniptions. I feel so bad for OP because all they wanted to do was help someone but gets punished for it because this game is practically a glorified day care.

I'm sorry this happened to you OP. Shutting you in the gaol for hours was super unprofessional. :(

i laughed really hard at you singing in the chat though

Really sucks that someone did bad numbers and decided to report you when you were just trying to help them. Assuming that was actually the case.

Eh. I'd speculate it's more likely one player asked for logs, and another player did the reporting for breaking the rules. Not in a "let's team up and get someone banned" way. Just, someone being a stickler for the rules.

Presumably, OP knows the stance on parsers, so, definitely shouldn't have been announcing to a group of randos that he was using them. That's basically the entire point of the policy in place. Don't make it known to anyone that doesn't want to know.

If it was just from one-on-one tells, well, at that point you could claim malicious intent probably. But, the risks are still known.

Next time, send any log requests through tells. Don't trust anyone in this game not to report you, because they will. People are petty AF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OrangeCrystarium

Next time, send any log requests through tells. Don't trust anyone in this game not to report you, because they will. People are petty AF.

---

GM's can choose to ban people over tells. It's not safe to discuss logs in game. Full stop.

The hypocrisy of Square saying they wanted to close the gap between high end players and casual players they were so concerned about after Heavensward. By forcing raiders off game to make communities elsewhere where optimization can be discussed safely, they're making that gap even wider.

No, parsers shouldn't be used to shame people. But to ban someone who had been asked by another to help better their own gameplay?

Really disgusting practice by GM's here. That's not even including leaving a player in jail, forgotten, for 4 hours.

I understand their stance on 3rd party software, but leaving you in GM Gaol for over 4 hours I highly unprofessional.


Communication is key. What we had here was a failure to communicate.

Wow that sucks. To snatch you while you were offline and then let you sit for hours on end is just bad form. Most GMs I've talked to after having reported someone are super nice and don't leave you hanging like that. Heck I've seen posts from people who seriously deserved to be in GM jail get their questions asked nicely.

I thought they only punished for this if the numbers were used for harassment?

Wow that's super ridiculous and unprofessional to just leave a player in gaol for hours with zero communication. And a 10 day ban for a first offence, and for something as benign as a parser? That said player never used to harass people (which presumably can be checked in logs)? Come on, you can be better than this.

It's also terrible than when you do get pulled into the gaol, there is no communication or any kind of an attempt to gain an understanding on what had happened, the GMs just throw in some copy-paste crap and then give you a punishment based on how they are feeling on that particular day, and those strikes never go away either as far as I'm aware.

Interresting would be a reaction form the mods here about that, but i guess there wont be any, right?

Still something like this its silly and i say that as someone with an huge disike for parsers... like its done in 10-15 min max, why the wait? I see theres a difference in between "hey my game got stuck/item did not spawn etc" and some "youre arrested!" stuff but still... >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerLuke

I thought they only punished for this if the numbers were used for harassment?

---

Yea that's what's confusing me about this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adventica6

Break the ToS and get nuked, this isn't wow.

---

Meanwhile, there are botters on my server that have been reported several times throughout the entirety of this expansion who were never punished. Clearly, only some things against the ToS take priority.