Playable kids in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

I wouldn't say you are wrong but on the other end saying he is, isn't quite right either.

My interpretation of this would be that the time pass but not the year. As stupid as it may sound.

(He is no dev btw).

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Wasnt sure if he was or not, so I kinda did a catch all. Im not saying some of the story takes place within a year, or even most of what weve seen thus far. It's plausible. My point is as time goes on and more content gets jammed in, that plausibility is gonna get really ridiculous. Honestly, I thin that answer makes things more difficult than easy. I get that its a "Dont think about it" answer, but its one of those answers that just makes it all even more confusing.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

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That would work...kinda, except that time would still be progressing forward. Like I get if they need to insert content into an 'earlier phase'. Its like a wierd little adendum/retcon. Its minor in that regards. But the overall MSQ is where things get hung up. Even if you break down each section into time bubbles, time still progresses. As an example, if arr is 4 months, hw is 4 months, and SB is 4 months, an entire year has just passed. And that means ShB cannot be in the same year as ARR, but the following year at that point. Its plausible some of the MSQ happens in one year, but as more gets added, that being probable starts to fall apart. Itd eventually become the example I was trying to illustrate : You wouldnt say the entirety of ARR and HW happens in 3 days. That short of a time frame is rediculous. A year for ARR and HW makes sense, possibly even ShB. But theres gonna be a point where this wont work anymore.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

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I totally agree with you on how time works here, though I don't think the dev even necessarily has to be wrong - at least, the second one says "the bubble just got bigger." So who knows, maybe they meant it's a bubble with a five year (random number) timespan now instead of it being the same year forever.

I dunno. Either way, I definitely didn't read their posts as saying that time doesn't actually pass in Eorzea. Time definitely passes. It just isn't reflected in game, because, like they said, they'd have to update the entire world every time a patch comes out. It sounds like it's a technical/design decision and not a lore fact.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

That would work...kinda, except that time would still be progressing forward. Like I get if they need to insert content into an 'earlier phase'. Its like a wierd little adendum/retcon. Its minor in that regards. But the overall MSQ is where things get hung up. Even if you break down each section into time bubbles, time still progresses. As an example, if arr is 4 months, hw is 4 months, and SB is 4 months, an entire year has just passed. And that means ShB cannot be in the same year as ARR, but the following year at that point. Its plausible some of the MSQ happens in one year, but as more gets added, that being probable starts to fall apart. Itd eventually become the example I was trying to illustrate : You wouldnt say the entirety of ARR and HW happens in 3 days. That short of a time frame is rediculous. A year for ARR and HW makes sense, possibly even ShB. But theres gonna be a point where this wont work anymore.

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I think the writers/devs have become aware of this issue that things are getting too sacked in just 1 year canonically and i feel like we will actually have a small time skip while we are on the 1st (This is my hope at least). Alphanaud and Alasiae are the key to if we have a decent time jump if they become adult sized Elezen 5 to 6 years have passed but until they do no more than 4 years can pass if you feel like ARR/HW/SB is 1 full year you are not wrong for thinking that as there are no official dates for events so if that makes it easier for you to believe it then go ahead the devs just unfortunately wrote themselves into a corner when they made alphinaud and alasiae as they want time to move forward but cannot have it going too fast that they have to make completely new models for characters the playerbase likes.

I mean they are experimenting with changing the world here and there. The tent cities around Uldah now have stalls of Ala Mhigan's selling wares and such for instance. I can see them still wanting to be vague, but it does seem like they're experimenting with moving areas forward visually.

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

(He is no dev btw).

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Anonymoose isn't a dev (though he is quoting information from the head of English localisation), but he's the resident expert in the Lore forum and seems to have absolutely everything referenced.

Also, they officially hired him to help work on editing the second lorebook.

If I may state the obvious, we already play something that resembles young boys and girls participating in battles. We call them "lalafells". I suppose they get away with it by saying they are adult dwarfs.

The game can't progress much in time because it just won't work for those further behind in the story. They have done it in some MMOs and what happens is, if you are someone far behind in the story, you see all of the other players talking about the era they are in decades in the future and they effectively spoil the story for you as a result.

They want to not say how much time has passed at all, and instead let us imagine how much time has passed. They've said this officially at live letters. I am contented with this stance.

They won't say "5 more years have passed" and they won't make it particularly appear like anything has changed in old areas. But they also won't necessarily say "no time has passed". This way we are able to imagine it for ourselves. The trailer depicting a beard, aged skin and the weight of being a hero taking its toll with the flashbacks, are meant to be to help us imagine and decide for ourselves how much time might have passed.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If I may state the obvious, we already play something that resembles young boys and girls participating in battles.

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True, but there's a difference between resembling children and actually being children.

You really had me in the last half, not gonna lie. Laffin'.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

If I may state the obvious, we already play something that resembles young boys and girls participating in battles. We call them "lalafells". I suppose they get away with it by saying they are adult dwarfs.

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I assume that's the difference - particularly when it comes to game classification, and what is or isn't acceptable to a ratings board.

Lalafells look "childlike" but they're also quite stylised and cartoony, and very different to the actual Hyuran children we see in the game.

i though japan rule of age in games and anime is like this lol

- age below 12 = kids
- age 13-17 = teen
- age 18-20's = mister, adult
- anything above 30 = old man/hag

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Originally Posted by Neri

It just kinda weird though, traveling here, hopping there, flying here, drowning uh, swimming to the island over there etc etc. And all those events all in the expand of only 6 months.

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Especially considering Eorzean days are much shorter than our own.

Clearly time is an illusion of the nose.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

"Six months" and "in a time bubble" are conflicting claims, not both facts.

If it's six months, time has passed.

If it's a time bubble (which it is), there's no need to insist on a heavily condensed timeline to fit it all in, because we have infinite time in which to do that.

I have the first lorebook and, while I can't claim to have read every word, it's written from an in-world perspective so it isn't going to see the time bubble, and the detailed plot synopsis avoids giving any hard dates as far as I can see.

"It's true because it was claimed somewhere in this large, hard-to-review amount of information" isn't solid enough to prove that something actually is true.

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CRAP you're right. I completely forgot it was from in in lore view... DUCKING CATS. I feel like a butthole now T.T

They don't want Uldah Quicksands to be the next Thailand xD.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Ya, but you can't take Alphinaud out of the Burn to go ERP with a lusty bara-lander on Balmung, now can you op?

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Thankfully not lol

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Originally Posted by griffinborn

True, but there's a difference between resembling children and actually being children.

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Yoshi-P said they couldn't have "playable characters that resembled young boys and girls", so just merely resembling and not being them fulfils his criteria.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I assume that's the difference - particularly when it comes to game classification, and what is or isn't acceptable to a ratings board.

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Yeah, at least for the time being, that simple technicality seems to be working. :eek:

Dunno if it's gonna happen realistically anytime soon for at least 2 reasons:

1. A Lalafell "child" that looks like a grown one:

Example - https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dainty_Child

2. Balmung's RP reputation exists.

You joke but we kinder do young teen size characters, Min height Smallest bust Female Au Ra are maybe 2 inches taller then Alphi/Alisae.

I think the entire thing comes down to a lack of specification.

Like, I know that characters like Alphinaud/Alisaie have been wanted. They are technically considered adults (Though, still young, like Estinien always calls Alphinaud a "Boy") in the game albeit being 16 years old and thus teenaged (Which, most people will still consider "Child" adult is normally 18+)

Which could work I guess? I mean... They're not THAT young that it would cause particular issues with "Ethics"

There are also the Padjal's of course, which retain a teenaged appearance for long times (Which lead to a sick burn against Sid in the DRK job quests) - Though, lore reasons make these as a playable race unfeasible.

Younger though? Well... That's when you'd face actual LORE issues. Like, pre-teen would not be allowed to become a "Warrior of Light", sure, they might get found by the Scions, but literally everyone there would make sure the child didn't get involved with any fighting... To say nothing about how there are quite a few NPC's that flirt with you, which would be plain wrong if you were playing a child character.

So yeah... I could see maybe like getting the option for more teenaged appearance characters. Such as Elezen having Alpinaud/Alisaie bodytypes available. With similar smaller frames for other races and some more younger looking faces. Though, the only issue is trying to create equality, when the Potatoes don't really change much in their age... They're born a potato and they stay a potato...

There are time bubbles though as back in ARR a person could get to the first half of 2.5 on a battle class and then go start in on the Culinary storyline and then get it to 50 and spoilers have Nanamo in the cs when she was thought to be dead. Even now you can have level 70's that have done all of the msq, but have never touched Coil until now. We all know that Coil chronologically happened during the 2.X series of events yet the twins and Uriagner all have to act like you haven't gone past the 2.X timeline. Heck even though where we are in the story Urianger is unconcious he will still be in the waking sands for anyone who hasn't done coil or anything else he's involved in unlocking. We might be getting a time skip come SHB, but right now we're in a bubble where yes time passes, but year wise it'll always be 5 years since the calamity, 20 since Ala Migho fell and 25 years since Doma fell.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's "kid", not "kids".

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haha???.... i think the op wants to play as teenagers like sora and riku from kingdom hearts. no one actually wants to play as a 5 year old. our only option for young guys are the cats. The rest are old rough and ready to retire

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Originally Posted by Duskane

its true no huge amount of time has happened
the twins are still 16

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Yeah no, I'm not accepting that.

If we include boat travel and walking distance between areas since the start of 2.1, it's been longer than 6 months. If anything, I'd say up until now, it has been 2-4 years in game time since the start of ARR.

For SB, if we take the rebuilding of Doma as an example, just from our weekly allotted limit for donations, it has been at least 3-4 months since the end of 4.0 to the end of 4.55. Add in the logical several months of sea travel from Limsa to Kugane, as well as the logical time frames needed for storyline events to occur during 4.0 outside of the boat trip, and we're looking at probably a full year for the storyline of SB, from 4.0 to 4.55.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yeah no, I'm not accepting that.

If we include boat travel and walking distance between areas since the start of 2.1, it's been longer than 6 months. If anything, I'd say up until now, it has been 2-4 years in game time since the start of ARR.

For SB, if we take the rebuilding of Doma as an example, just from our weekly allotted limit for donations, it has been at least 3-4 months since the end of 4.0 to the end of 4.55. Add in the logical several months of sea travel from Limsa to Kugane, as well as the logical time frames needed for storyline events to occur during 4.0 outside of the boat trip, and we're looking at probably a full year for the storyline of SB, from 4.0 to 4.55.

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SE has always been finnicky with their timescape. The only definitive times we've been given were at the start of ARR and everything since then has been up to interpretation with no official word. Occasionally we get a few bones on how long travel might take, like how riding full tilt from Gridania to Horizon on a chocobo without stopping takes a day, but other than that we have nothing. I'm personally in the 'it's been years' camp, but without SE providing an actual concrete timeline it's unlikely we'll ever know for sure.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yeah no, I'm not accepting that.

If we include boat travel and walking distance between areas since the start of 2.1, it's been longer than 6 months. If anything, I'd say up until now, it has been 2-4 years in game time since the start of ARR.

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The amount of time that has "logically passed" is irrelevant. The story is in a 'time bubble'. For official timekeeping purposes, time in the game never progresses.

It's not that the story has taken place in a short amount of time, but that you'll never see the passage of that time reflected within the game. Characters don't get older, seasons don't pass, the world doesn't move on and change unless the immediate story causes it to do so.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yeah no, I'm not accepting that.

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SE won't ever say how much time has passed, but they do want you to imagine how much has passed.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If we include...

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Trying to calculate and imagine for yourself is exactly what they want you to do.

As long as the timeframe you think has passed makes sense to you, go with it.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

The community rep/dev was wrong.

[I]Before the "Its a dev, youre a player, you cant be right", hear

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That community rep/ dev is one of the key members behind the lore of the game. He even writes a lot of the lyrics to the songs used in game. He IS the lore master so no he is not wrong. Hell he even created the dragon language and naming conventions for the races. BTW when you hear the song for moogle primal you're hearing him and a few other dev's sing. I'm speaking about Fern.... not anon though anon is very invested and knowledgable about the lore. Even figuring certain things out about stuff before it was actually revealed.


But to the topic, I'm honestly glad we are not able to make child pcs. Especially due to the fact that we've already seen one miserable out come on what happens when nothing but children are left to stop a calamity from taking place. We have the 13th shard/ the void as a perfect example.

Even if you ignore the what SE staff has stated on this subject and consider Alphinaud like 18 or something, it still doesn't change the fact that he looks like a kid still.

Unless we're gonna start going into 1,000 year old loli territory.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Even if you ignore the what SE staff has stated on this subject and consider Alphinaud like 18 or something, it still doesn't change the fact that he looks like a kid still.

Unless we're gonna start going into 1,000 year old loli territory.

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Pretty sure Elezen age slower than the rest of the races. I don't have my lorebook handy but I do think that was part of their blurb. Though I might be mixing that up with them living /slightly/ longer.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Pretty sure Elezen age slower than the rest of the races. I don't have my lorebook handy but I do think that was part of their blurb. Though I might be mixing that up with them living /slightly/ longer.

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Well the point being that even if there's lore reasons, it doesn't really matter what happens in the lore. Alphinaud looks like a kid, that's what's gonna matter to people looking on the outside of this game or just in general.

Like let's say they let you play as Alphinaud in the world and people had did certain types of roleplaying, he'd still have the appearance of a child regardless of whichever age he potentially was. It'd still be weird.

Though that said, FFXI let you transform into monsters and kids and this wasn't a issue so they might be over worrying.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Well the point being that even if there's lore reasons, it doesn't really matter what happens in the lore. Alphinaud looks like a kid, that's what's gonna matter to people looking on the outside of this game or just in general.

Like let's say they let you play as Alphinaud in the world and people had did certain types of roleplaying, he'd still have the appearance of a child regardless of whichever age he potentially was. It'd still be weird.

Though that said, FFXI let you transform into monsters and kids and this wasn't a issue so they might be over worrying.

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Oh nah, I'm not arguing on that count. Just pointing out the lore as my tired brain remembers it.

People spend way too much worrying about the time bubble. They outright stated it's just an excuse to not have to spend a lot of time coming up with a consistent timeline, but people are always taking it super literally as if it means no time has ever passed at all.

However much time you want to have passed, has passed. Unless you pick something stupid like a hundred years the game isn't going to contradict you.

Considering its been roughly 3 years game time that has passed. Alphinaud is 19 almost 20 so he is an adult. Point is children will never be playable as they shouldnt be.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Considering its been roughly 3 years game time that has passed. Alphinaud is 19 almost 20 so he is an adult. Point is children will never be playable as they shouldnt be.

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He still has appearance of one which is what this is about.

the fact that weve been framed for and proven innocent of regicide and then gone on to straight up kill thordan within 6 months is wild

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

He still has appearance of one which is what this is about.

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I wouldn't say he has the appearance of a child, he looks like a teenager annoyed that his growth spurt still hasn't kicked in.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I wouldn't say he has the appearance of a child, he looks like a teenager annoyed that his growth spurt still hasn't kicked in.

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anyone under 18 is a kid to me tbh

How much time has actually passed in-story? Enough. That's about as far as really matters.

I tend to assume it passes more-or-less in real time, but with events taking longer than they're portrayed. For example, the battle at the Ghimlyt Dark likely ran a lot longer than the 20-ish minutes it takes to do the instance. We just don't see it all because they have to keep it manageable.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

Though that said, FFXI let you transform into monsters and kids and this wasn't a issue so they might be over worrying.

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But you couldn't change clothes or do emotes while a disguised as a kid.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

He still has appearance of one which is what this is about.

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I assume by "this" you mean the definitve "No" we got from Yoshi-P in regards to playable children?

In that case: "This" is about people being able to play actual, young looking children. Even if you're not an adult when you're 16, you're extremly different from a 6 year old, wouldnt you agree? Specially in regards to some more mature topics, like violence or sex, which is what they're probably most concerned about: For one the violence within story-sequences and secondly people dressing up (young) children in sexualised outfits and/or putting them into such poses.

While Alphinaud does look young and is involved in fighting within the game and the duty you referenced, hes not a little child. You also have no control over his outfit and I'm not sure wether or not you were able to use emotes within that duty? But regardless of that, there is simply a HUGE difference between people being able to play a teenager in a set outfit in a controlled enviroment for 30 minutes and people being able to play 10-year-olds with all the freedom in terms of clothes, poses etc. the game offers us.

It doesnt matter wether you consider a 16-year old to still be a child or not (at least not until your 16-year-old tells you "I'm not a child anymore, mom, I dont need a bedtime-story!"), there is still a signifanct difference between playing Alphinaud and playing a child-WoL. Or between playing a teenager and a 10-year-old, seeing how certain people would like to play teenagers, which I suppose the devs would have less of an issue with, considering that Miqote and Au Ra can already look as if they're 16.

lalafel aren't toddlers...
They're scheming little tyrions, can even have the beard.
Just about every fantasy setting game has some sort of halfling race since Tolkein. If your sick mind is turning them into toddlers that's on you.

and 6 months seems kind of absurd for time passed.
We've built two hamlets, rebuilt a town, and fostered diplomatic relations with 11 different beast tribes
even if that's all we did it would be years and years of time