Housing Timer why x.x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshtola

Who hasn't been banned from the forums anyway lol. Earning those 6 digits irl was more important in the past 2 months than telling people on here how they should stop complaining and spend their time achieving what they want instead.



Yes, hire someone to look out for the sub 0.1% of houses that are owned by the same players. Great idea!!!

---

Were looking at more then that.. If we low ball it with 60 houses owned by one group per housing per server... We're looking at over 300 houses owned by people who already have a house.. And that's giving a low guess on it.. There's some servers that multiple wards are owned by the same person or group. So no.. It's not .1% of houses..its probably more in the 10% at the minimum

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxcel

Were looking at more then that.. If we low ball it with 60 houses owned by one group per housing per server... We're looking at over 300 houses owned by people who already have a house.. And that's giving a low guess on it.. There's some servers that multiple wards are owned by the same person or group. So no.. It's not .1% of houses..its probably more in the 10% at the minimum

---

I think I need some help with your math. If you're saying about 60 houses per housing district per server, that would be about 240 houses per server. I doubt that enough houses are own by multiple owners to fill up a whole ward per housing area, but we can go with this for math's sake. If 240 houses of the 4320 available per server are owned by multiple house owners, that's still only 5.56% of houses. Even your bad math (4x60 equaling over 300) only brings us to about 7% of houses being owned by multiple house owners (no where near the over 10% you state). When the 1 personal/ 1 FC house rule was added, it was estimated that it would probably be closer to about 100 houses per server in most cases, with a few well known over collecting exceptions. 100 houses would give you a whole 2.31% owned by multiple house owners. So, while .1% of housing owners is probably too low, over 10% is also greatly exaggerated.

And if we're looking into FC houses being purchased beyond what the 1/1 rule "allows", then I only know of about 4 servers that have a problem like that. It's definitely not worth hiring one person to look into full time.

So first he talks about FCs with more than 1 houses. Then he decides to combine grandfathered personal houses, players with both a FC house and a personal house and FCs with more than 1 house :rolleyes:. You have to make up your mind when you want to throw numbers out. As mentioned above, very few servers have prominent house owners.

Now, I can admit that 0.1% was too low if you look at the amount of houses owned. But 0.1% is very relevant if you want to talk about the percentage of players that own more than 2 FC houses (or any combination of houses).

That being said, 60 is more or less the amount of FC houses owned by the same people on my server out of 4320 available... that's 1.4%

Wow. Big deal. Take me out of the picture and that drops to 0.8%. But sure, let's hire someone to watch over the 15 people on my server who manage more than 1 FC house :rolleyes:

I really don't understand what's wrong with first come first serve. That's how I got my house multiple years ago, and it sure beats forcing players to stare at a placard for hours on end hoping the option will appear. That's just poor design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I really don't understand what's wrong with first come first serve. That's how I got my house multiple years ago, and it sure beats forcing players to stare at a placard for hours on end hoping the option will appear. That's just poor design.

---

Because people can't make the difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes. Nothing beats the free market.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arazehl

Owning more then one personal house is unfair and selfish! Give me a good reason why a player would need more than one personal house?

---

Couldn't agree more. And if SE is that afraid of the scorn of those few who own such a large number of houses why don't they offer them to keep those houses if they pay increased subscription fees? Like we would have to pay if we opened that many accounts to get such a number of houses? Then it would be fair... and the added income could be used to create resources to offer more housing to all. That would be fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sitallik

Couldn't agree more. And if SE is that afraid of the scorn of those few who own such a large number of houses why don't they offer them to keep those houses if they pay increased subscription fees? Like we would have to pay if we opened that many accounts to get such a number of houses? Then it would be fair... and the added income could be used to create resources to offer more housing to all. That would be fair.

---

What makes you think the added income could go towards housing? SE's reasons for not adding a better housing system or more housing isn't due to lack of funding. They just think they have better things to be spending that money on. SE is not poor. They're just choosing to not concentrate much on housing. Which adds to the frustration of players,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sitallik

Couldn't agree more. And if SE is that afraid of the scorn of those few who own such a large number of houses why don't they offer them to keep those houses if they pay increased subscription fees? Like we would have to pay if we opened that many accounts to get such a number of houses? Then it would be fair... and the added income could be used to create resources to offer more housing to all. That would be fair.

---

If you have more than 1 house, then you already pay an increased subscription. (There's an option for subscriptions for 1 character per server and another for upto 8 characters per server. The second does cost more.) And as Penthea points out, added fees probably wouldn't go towards housing. It would go towards developing whatever SE thinks is most important. (maybe giving us 2 dungeons each patch again, maybe more cross game events, maybe new events, etc.)

Everyone got their house by working out it, whether they have 1 or ten. For some people housing is all they do. Just cuz it frustrates you doesn't mean its wrong. It takes a lot of time and gil to buy and decorate a house. If someone wants to put their resources into it, let them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurith

Everyone got their house by working out it, whether they have 1 or ten. For some people housing is all they do. Just cuz it frustrates you doesn't mean its wrong.

---

And just because it's not against the ToS doesn't make it right. I'd rather not take houses away from people, but SE don't seem to want to give us a solution that would be equally fair to everyone (instanced housing) so then obviously people are going to look at those who are making a well-known problem worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurith

It takes a lot of time and gil to buy and decorate a house. If someone wants to put their resources into it, let them.

---

Eh not everyone who has a house, whether they have one or ten, take the time to decorate it. There is a player in my fc's ward who owns seven or eight houses and only one of them looks like any care went into the decor. The rest either have almost none or nothing aside from gardening patches. And they have remained unchanged for well over a year at the very least. For all I know they have been like this since years before my fc got a plot there.

So lets not bring in decor effort into the conversation because frankly a lot of people, be they hoarders or not, just don't freaking bother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurith

Everyone got their house by working out it, whether they have 1 or ten. For some people housing is all they do. Just cuz it frustrates you doesn't mean its wrong. It takes a lot of time and gil to buy and decorate a house. If someone wants to put their resources into it, let them.

---

There is only a few who were able to get those houses. Now nobody can do that anymore. Equal rules for all! And no, it's not fair if a few hoard the very limited resources and make it impossible for others to get them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sitallik

There is only a few who were able to get those houses. Now nobody can do that anymore. Equal rules for all! And no, it's not fair if a few hoard the very limited resources and make it impossible for others to get them.

---

Does it matter that when most people gathered their multiple houses, it wasn't really a limited resource on their server? Most people I know who own multiple houses (that were grandfathered in) chose what were dead servers. There was one point in time when I debated transferring to Goblin because there were about a dozen large houses open, many at the lowest price possible (some were in the Mist which is my favorite zone and where I wanted a large house). (Goblin is not like that anymore. I don't know of any NA server like that anymore. FFXIV has grown tremendously since then.) Was it really wrong of people to see all these empty houses and buy them and use them? Especially since there were still plenty of houses for anyone else? It's not fair to judge people who did nothing wrong as harshly as many of you do. And taking away houses that people worked hard to get isn't right. And taking away houses that people worked hard to get will not fix the housing situation at all. It would barely even be a band-aid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

Does it matter that when most people gathered their multiple houses, it wasn't really a limited resource on their server? Most people I know who own multiple houses (that were grandfathered in) chose what were dead servers.

---

It's a limited resource on every server, and every server has the potential to become very active. No excuses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

It's a limited resource on every server, and every server has the potential to become very active. No excuses.

---

When half of the houses on a server were empty (as in not purchased) and most with prices bottomed out, I would argue that it's not a limited resource. It doesn't matter that there are/were only a set number. There are many servers that sat with housing wards empty for years. Just because they finally filled up doesn't mean that we should take things away from people who did nothing wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

When half of the houses on a server were empty (as in not purchased) and most with prices bottomed out, I would argue that it's not a limited resource.

---

So what you're saying is if a shop has 100 books and no one buys any for months or years this means the shop actually has an unlimited supply of books? Somehow 100 unused things becomes an infinite amount of unused things? Right. Sure. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

It doesn't matter that there are/were only a set number.

---

Tell that to everyone on Mateus trying to get a house while two players own an entire ward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

There are many servers that sat with housing wards empty for years. Just because they finally filled up doesn't mean that we should take things away from people who did nothing wrong.

---

Being able to do something isn't the same as that something automatically being okay to do.

I could kick everyone out of my fc right now without a word, keep the millions in the fc chest that many of them contributed to, and it wouldn't be against the ToS. But would I be wrong in kicking them with zero warning and keep all the gil to myself? Absolutely. Would it negatively impact other players despite not being against the ToS? Definitely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

So what you're saying is if a shop has 100 books and no one buys any for months or years this means the shop actually has an unlimited supply of books? Somehow 100 unused things becomes an infinite amount of unused things? Right. Sure. :rolleyes:

---

Mathematically speaking, yes. If no one is buying any of those hundred books than effectively those hundred books are the equivalent of an infinite source since they will never run out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Tell that to everyone on Mateus trying to get a house while two players own an entire ward.

---

To everyone on Mateus, I'm super sorry that you showed up to a previously dead server where people had decided to buy a whole ward for their personal decoration enjoyment. If only you had decided to transfer sooner (like those 2 did) instead of waiting for a free transfer to leave Balmung in hopes of getting a nice home of your own.

To everyone on Gilgamesh who has to compete with Mew and whatever other FC, I'm super impressed that these FCs were able to purchase so many plots considering the server size, especially if Mew really did acquire all of their extra houses after 4.2. To be able to accomplish such a feat on such a highly populated server is quite an accomplishment. It really does suck that our limited housing is impacted by it, but I still have to be impressed by what they've done.

To people on all the servers that I've missed (I know Leviathan used to have an FC with quite a few houses and still might, I haven't heard about them in a few years now), I'm sorry that our limited housing in game is impacted by what a very few people/ FCs have done; however, as a whole multiple house owners, even considering the extreme examples on Mateus and Gilgamesh, should only account for about 5-6% of the housing on a server. That's adding in a lot of extras. (That means only 5 or 6 of those 100 books are the people you complain about. Please stop trying to make them seem like the devil, as most of the houses on any server are owned by single house owners.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Being able to do something isn't the same as that something automatically being okay to do.

I could kick everyone out of my fc right now without a word, keep the millions in the fc chest that many of them contributed to, and it wouldn't be against the ToS. But would I be wrong in kicking them with zero warning and keep all the gil to myself? Absolutely. Would it negatively impact other players despite not being against the ToS? Definitely.

---

Pretty sure that kicking everyone out of your FC for no reason is considered griefing and a reportable offense. I know for a fact it's griefing and reportable if you kick everyone to sell your FC. The part about doing it just to steal from everyone is what might make it a grey area in the rules of the game.

Flip side of that is my personal experience. I was an officer in an FC. I donated 35 mil to the FC chest to help the FC be able to buy a mansion when Shirogane came out. FC changed leaders. I didn't like the new leader, at all. And I didn't realize until about an hour before I left the FC (after a few months of putting up with tons of toxicity) that the new leader had changed permissions for the FC chest, so even though I was an officer and "trusted" I would not be able to get any of the gil back that I had put in the chest (under the old FC leader back when I had faith in the FC) to help the new FC I'd be joining. It sucked. But sometimes set backs happen in life. And I had no one to blame but myself for putting my faith in a group of people I new from a game. The real kicker is the new FC leader eventually kicked everyone out of the FC and "gave it" to a "irl friend" of hers (that she had/ has never played with in game before or since). Funny how she seemed to have tons of gil after she "gave away" the FC and the house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

To everyone on Gilgamesh who has to compete with Mew and whatever other FC, I'm super impressed that these FCs were able to purchase so many plots considering the server size, especially if Mew really did acquire all of their extra houses after 4.2. To be able to accomplish such a feat on such a highly populated server is quite an accomplishment. It really does suck that our limited housing is impacted by it, but I still have to be impressed by what they've done.

---

Honestly i agree with many of your points. The only thing don''t agree with is the fact the people like Mew have gotten so many houses and basically are not doing anything with it. Trust me, i understand that per the game rules they are not doing anything against the rules and technically this falls on Square Enix. That being said, that does not mean i have to like a person that buys 20 houses just to brag about it. If they were being used i honestly wouldn't care. But when you get 20 houses and basically don't do anything with them and just brag about the fact. It feels like a slap in the face to people that are trying extremely hard to find even a small house in Goblet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

Mathematically speaking, yes. If no one is buying any of those hundred books than effectively those hundred books are the equivalent of an infinite source since they will never run out..

---

...lol what?

So I have two hands...and because they will never "run out" this means that mathematically speaking I have an infinite number of hands? So...I guess I'm technically some weird cosmic spider?

The lengths people go to in order to legitimise house hoarding is absolutely hilarious :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

are the equivalent of an infinite source since they will never run out..

---

Those houses on those previously dead servers did run out. So their source is no longer mathematically infinite...which means that the house hoarding can no longer be okay because the houses are now mathematically a finite source.

So you just basically argued against yourself. Well done.

I got to admit i laughed out loud at the cosmic spider part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

...lol what?

So I have two hands...and because they will never "run out" this means that mathematically speaking I have an infinite number of hands? So...I guess I'm technically some weird cosmic spider?

The lengths people go to in order to legitimise house hoarding is absolutely hilarious :D

---

That must be awesome to never run out of hands. Even though I have 2 hands, I'm often doing things with both hands. Heck, I often have to figure out using other things besides hands to help myself out. It must be amazing to never run our of hands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

Those houses on those previously dead servers did run out. So their source is no longer mathematically infinite...which means that the house hoarding can no longer be okay because the houses are now mathematically a finite source.

So you just basically argued against yourself. Well done.

---

I'm not convinced they have run out everywhere. (I mean, I know there are still some super dead JP servers, but I don't think we care about those here.) I think we're still seeing many houses that will be auto demo'd. Unless the NA population evened out a lot more that I ever thought it would. I guess to know that for sure we'll have to wait like 3 more weeks for the big auto demo.

Even acknowledging that 4-5 years later houses became a finite resource, how long should someone sit and look at an empty world never knowing if it will possibly fill up one day? And just because new people move into your home world, does that mean you should have to give up things that you've had for years? If you have 100 acres of land in real life, then I move to your town and am homeless, should the town force you to sell me some of your land so I can build a house? (That's basically what you're asking SE to do, force people to give up their plots (land) and house.) That's not how things work. It might not be "fair" for the new people, but forcing people to give up homes they worked hard for isn't fair either. And I still don't even understand why people are asking for it. It would probably only add 100-200 more houses per server (at most, and I'm still convinced this is a super high estimate for most servers). On most servers with a housing problem, those 100-200 houses will not help. At all. It's a band aid that would hurt more players than it would help (because it would also hurt all the other new players that still couldn't get a house). Please stop asking for a bad fix.

Sorry, I forgot I wanted to respond to this as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjorge1991

Honestly i agree with many of your points. The only thing don''t agree with is the fact the people like Mew have gotten so many houses and basically are not doing anything with it. Trust me, i understand that per the game rules they are not doing anything against the rules and technically this falls on Square Enix. That being said, that does not mean i have to like a person that buys 20 houses just to brag about it. If they were being used i honestly wouldn't care. But when you get 20 houses and basically don't do anything with them and just brag about the fact. It feels like a slap in the face to people that are trying extremely hard to find even a small house in Goblet.

---

I honestly don't agree with the huge hoarding FC groups. I am impressed by the fact that they were able to accomplish it on such a heavily populated server. Thinking what they did was ok and acknowledging how difficult it must have been are 2 very different things. I think the 2 people on Mateus are living my decorator's dream of housing, but I definitely was not impressed with what seemed like a copy paste of all the houses they designed in that ward.

The problem is that if you take away all the extreme hoarders, you also take away from the people like me who have 2 houses. I have one for me and one for my BF who lost his house to auto demo (at least once, maybe twice) back when he was hopping around different games more. He was subscribed, but just didn't log in or think about it (even though I told him to). I will only buy him a house so many times before I take the opportunity and just keep a house for him on my account instead of his. And since he doesn't keep a house on his account anymore, I honestly feel like we're basically in the 1/1 rule. The only thing is his house is in my name instead of his. He will never buy a house again. He doesn't even bother with an FC room or an apartment. He uses "his" house constantly.

I don't think the extremes are right, but I also don't think if people bought items in the game according to the game rules that it's right to punish them for it, no matter how much the game grows. It's not our fault as players that SE made a housing system that wasn't sustainable. That SE didn't foresee and haven't been able to keep up with this massive growth. This game has become much more popular in the last few years. The current housing system is a victim of FFXIV's success. The developers know this. They seem interested in fixing it, even if they don't know how yet. Or maybe they have plans and just haven't shared them with us yet until they know how well it work. They seem rather reluctant to share things with us, as we then expect them *cough* Blitz Ball in Stormblood *cough*, even if it turns out not viable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

If you have 100 acres of land in real life, then I move to your town and am homeless, should the town force you to sell me some of your land so I can build a house? (That's basically what you're asking SE to do, force people to give up their plots (land) and house.) That's not how things work.

---

This is one of the reasons I don't think SE should remove grandfathered properties from multi-home owners (the other is development time being wasted on this effort when it won't actually fix anything and I'd rather they look into real solutions with that time). You must be able to empathize with the homeless person in this situation, and why they're frustrated with the multi-home owners, right? In the same vein, I can empathize with the average multi-home owner (I consider the guy who comes here to troll the forums every so often an outlier) who has either spent hours decorating those homes and/or leveled up airships and submarines within them, and has built up an attachment. People are coming with pitchforks at them and demanding that they nullify those hours they spent using SE's system exactly as it was designed, all because SE's design choices were so flawed.

I would be in favor of incentives for multi-home owners to leave the wards rather than brute-force taking away people's virtual possessions. I've been saying this for ages now, but we'd probably see a lot less of the undecorated houses that people love to complain about if FC workshops and crossbreeding gardening were accessible outside of housing. Improving apartments would be another step in the right direction, and adding some form of instanced housing that includes a full outdoor area is probably the best solution.

A short message of 'hey we hear you, housing is in a flawed state, we do plan to work on a fix when there is capacity to do so, please hold on a little longer' would really help on SE's part. They are in crunch time for ShB right now, so I guess this isn't exactly a priority for them, but I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of these threads as the game's population continues to grow and no end to this problem is in sight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

I'm not convinced they have run out everywhere.

---

I didn't say this, I don't know the state of every server but everyone knows there are servers out there that were dead, house hoarders took advantage of the situation, and then the servers became very active and now have a lot of people wondering why one player can have 30 houses while they can't even get 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

And just because new people move into your home world, does that mean you should have to give up things that you've had for years?

---

I have said so many times before, I would prefer to not do this. There are other ways to address the housing shortages but lets be serious here. SE are not interested in other ways. They have never shown even a scrap of interest in other ways. They are only interested in tweaking the ward system. So then players ask for ward adjustments because it's actually possible. And unfortunately if we're going to strive for a more even distribution of houses, then grandfathered players will become targeted.

In an ideal situation it would never happen, but SE refuse to present us with an ideal situation, so then of course people's eyes will then fall on to players who knowingly and needlessly make a bad situation worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MizArai

If you have 100 acres of land in real life, then I move to your town and am homeless, should the town force you to sell me some of your land so I can build a house?

---

This comparison doesn't work because you can just go to another town and take everything with you. You can't in FFXIV. Going to another ward won't help if all the wards are full. Changing server won't help if it means losing most of your gil due to the gil cap. If I transferred to another server I would lose more than 90% of my gil. In real life I wouldn't lose 90% of my money just from moving to another town. You also can't take fc progress with you, but irl if I was part of a club...well the club isn't automatically disbanded or handed to someone else just because I move to a new town. Nor would I be automatically kicked from it.

Also a lot of countries have laws about how much property an individual can purchase within an area, to prevent monopolisation and exploitation by landlords. You mentioned only land. In FFXIV land and housing are one and the same given you can do literally nothing else with the land. So in a real life situation, depending on the location, an individual may be unable to hoard houses in the manner that they can in FFXIV.

The only good answer to all of this and to 99% of the threads in the housing forum...is instanced housing. But SE don't appear to be interested in this at all :(

I can say right now that i created three characters in three "preferred servers" just recently and even those have no houses.

The old system was bad because it encouraged RMT. The new system is bad because it encourages camping and cheating bots.

SE, you need to be smarter.

1) After house is relinquished, place a 15 day window until it can even go back on the market
2) After 15 days has passed, it's can go on the market randomly between day 15 and 30.
3) Have the plot advertised and placard selectable only when the land is available for purchase, not before.

These would stop the current problems we have but it's not a perfect solution. It would discourage RMT and Camping however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

The old system was bad because it encouraged RMT. The new system is bad because it encourages camping and cheating bots.

SE, you need to be smarter.

1) After house is relinquished, place a 15 day window until it can even go back on the market
2) After 15 days has passed, it's can go on the market randomly between day 15 and 30.
3) Have the plot advertised and placard selectable only when the land is available for purchase, not before.

These would stop the current problems we have but it's not a perfect solution. It would discourage RMT and Camping however.

---

Extending the timer wouldn't solve the camping problem, it would make it worse for first time buyers and those killing themselves staying at plots waiting for the moment it unlocks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annakajima

Extending the timer wouldn't solve the camping problem, it would make it worse for first time buyers and those killing themselves staying at plots waiting for the moment it unlocks

---

If you can't click on the placard and doesn't show up on the listing, how would that make it worse than current RNG? Without some kind of waiting period, players will sell their house outright and encourage RMT. the only other option I could see it just have a 30 day waiting period until the plot is listed without RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

If you can't click on the placard and doesn't show up on the listing, how would that make it worse than current RNG?

---

People would still hunt for free plots, then they would still wait for the second that placard did become available, as I said, extending the timer would not prevent them camping and spending too long trying to get a home.

We've seen the lengths players go to to buy multiple homes, create scripts to beat the timer, buying a crappy home first to relocate easier, again making the home randomly unlock between 15-30 days would just make a pretty bad situation worse

Edit: Your second point then making it unlock after 30 days just makes it easier for people to flood a plot if they know when it's becoming available, and those with scripts/relocating will benefit more rather than those just trying for their first home

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annakajima

People would still hunt for free plots, then they would still wait for the second that placard did become available, as I said, extending the timer would not prevent them camping and spending too long trying to get a home.

We've seen the lengths players go to to buy multiple homes, create scripts to beat the timer, buying a crappy home first to relocate easier, again making the home randomly unlock between 15-30 days would just make a pretty bad situation worse

Edit: Your second point then making it unlock after 30 days just makes it easier for people to flood a plot if they know when it's becoming available, and those with scripts/relocating will benefit more rather than those just trying for their first home

---

Okay, what then? If you list it the moment it comes up, player will sell their plot at insane price leading to RMT plague, SE will never go for that. They changed to RNG just because of that reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Okay, what then? If you list it the moment it comes up, player will sell their plot at insane price leading to RMT plague, SE will never go for that. They changed to RNG just because of that reason.

---

Was in no way implying the old system worked, was debating your suggestions. You said your method would solve RMT and Camping which I don't think it would.

Instanced housing at the end of the day is the best way to solve this housing crisis, with each problem the ward system SE has tried to solve, another one has sprung up in it's place, it's broken and been exploited too many times in the past, it is a beautiful idea at it's heart but sadly not feasible

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annakajima

Was in no way implying the old system worked, was debating your suggestions. You said your method would solve RMT and Camping which I don't think it would.

Instanced housing at the end of the day is the best way to solve this housing crisis, with each problem the ward system SE has tried to solve, another one has sprung up in it's place, it's broken and been exploited too many times in the past, it is a beautiful idea at it's heart but sadly not feasible

---

Agree but we have to work within the system we have, we means improving our instance interior space we already have. We need to improve apartments to make them more attractive to player so they don't feel an out right need to own a house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Agree but we have to work within the system we have, we means improving our instance interior space we already have. We need to improve apartments to make them more attractive to player so they don't feel an out right need to own a house.

---

Absolutely agree there too, I hope that with Shadowbringers they do bring about an overhaul, who knows if they will but we can dream.