first update of patch week

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Originally Posted by Rau

How is a high defense class with relatively infinite MP a bad idea for a tank?

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And one that can use Decoy for dodging spells/ranged attacks.

Blm can't use raise? Is that right?

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Blm can't use raise? Is that right?

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Correct.

So as long as you are in passive mode and not in combat, you would have to switch back to a class to raise. This is going to feel similar to FF11 where not everyone will have raise.

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Originally Posted by Xelsiar

Yea, I doubt they nerf Hellfire for job release. The jobs aren't being put into place for the primals to get easier. People will want to go on their newly acquired jobs against Ifrit, but I think alot of people will be dissappointed when they die from HF lol.

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Perhaps using jobs for Ifrit will allow us enough firepower to take out all the nails, we just dont know yet :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Correct.

So as long as you are in passive mode and not in combat, you would have to switch back to a class to raise. This is going to feel similar to FF11 where not everyone will have raise.

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Thank you kindly for the prompt answer. :)

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Originally Posted by AshToreth

Perhaps using jobs for Ifrit will allow us enough firepower to take out all the nails, we just dont know yet :rolleyes:

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you can take down all the nails with class

I can't believe people are still not killing all the nails, especially in THM-heavy groups.

You can take down nails with any class in the group, probably harder with melee classes because it requires a little bit of brain to decides which side is right/left/behind, but once it's figured out. It will be faster than THM.

And now new recipe lists.

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

Or maybe the new setup for Ifrit will be PLD, 2x WHM, 5x BLM since all the BLMs could use Sanguine Rite w/ the damage reduction.

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We need the battles to be balanced in that we dont have to stack classes/jobs like that x_x 2 white mages I could see, but hopefully the battles will be able to work with maybe 2 black mages and then 3 DD of any choice.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

We need the battles to be balanced in that we dont have to stack classes/jobs like that x_x

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We never needed to stack them to begin with, but people still will.

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

We never needed to stack them to begin with, but people still will.

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Yeah, you've got a point there. Never liked it when one strategy is formed and no one (well almost no one anyway) attempts to deviate from that.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

you can take down all the nails with class

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Yes of course, I was just responding with another scenario that life without Sentinel on Ifrit, may not be all that bad :)

I think also class will be more towards PVP (when we get that) and jobs are more PVE.

also, anyone notices the equipment window now?

I like how the jobs aren't going to be overwhelmingly better, and the classes will still be more useful in some situations. I was going to be a bit sad if the classes were just...outclassed.

I have mixed feelings - however that said its one of those wait and see things for me. Nobody knows till they try it first. Summery judgment in this aspect is usually a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

nah and blm will keep second wind, whm will get to keep sentinel, and they both lose invigorate.

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True but depending on how strong the tp regen song from bard is the loss might not even be felt.

As far as lack of Raises goes, WHM gets access to Chainspell iirc. If the cooldown is less than 5min (it probably won't be), then WHM could raise when needed and have it ready for those holy...you know what moments. :D

Then again, there may also be bonuses with it's AF gear...just gonna has to wait and see though :(

Disappointed that they basically came out and said that these quests will have us prancing around fairy land in mind numbing easy quests. Hopefully the story is good at least.

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Originally Posted by Rau

How is a high defense class with relatively infinite MP a bad idea for a tank?

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Because PLD will also have high MP... its own heal... A regen.. and a move that mitigates all physical damage

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Originally Posted by Zdenka

All in all, losing lots of versitility (at the cost of improved dps, healing, tanking... hopefully) will make this game more fun to play because it might actually require people to be more thoughtful now. Frankly its been sorta lame that -everyone- can raise, or spot heal, etc.

Return of skillful play, here's hoping.

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Hi Zdenka and All,

I agree that this new Job System focuses gameplay now (i.e., not everyone can Cure, not everyone can just pop Sentinel, etc.), but my one concern so far is the seemingly arbitrary Lock Out that's happening on Cross-Class abilities.

If you look at the list of which Jobs can use which Class' abilities:

"For other class-specific actions, only actions from certain classes can be equipped by certain jobs, as per the table below:

Available Class-specific Actions

Job: Class
Paladin: Marauder/Conjurer
Monk: Lancer/Archer
Warrior: Gladiator/Pugilist
Dragoon: Pugilist/Archer
Bard: Conjurer/Thaumaturge
White Mage: Gladiator/Pugilist
Black Mage: Pugilist/Archer"

It just seems very arbitrary right now. For example, a White Mage can use Gladiator (makes some sense) and... Pugilist (huh?!).

Or a Black Mage can only use Pugilist or Archer abilities. Weird.

Many just feel arbitrary, and I know we'll eventually just learn to accept it and move on, but looking at the system for any new player just starting and in general... it just feels like an artificial Lock Out / Cap... there's nothing in the lore that informs you that a Black Mage had its "roots" in Pugilists or firing a Bow as an Archer.

I understand the reasoning for limiting Skills (to allow uniqueness) - which is GREAT! :) - but the 2 specific Classes you can draw from only seem very random for some Jobs.

We'll see how this goes (I'm still excited about the Jobs, just a bit thrown off by the randomness of certain Classes).

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Correct.

So as long as you are in passive mode and not in combat, you would have to switch back to a class to raise. This is going to feel similar to FF11 where not everyone will have raise.

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Hi Tezz, Vackashken,

Yah I think it'll be very interesting to see with Raise being limited only to only Paladin, Bard and White Mage. It'll certainly make Deaths much more important / noteworthy (i.e., people can't just zombie zerg stuff, and should be more focused) (not everyone can Raise now).

Lol I've seen parties because the healer wanted to a person instead for curing the tank D:

lol I love how everyone is worrying about not being able to cross class certain abilities. I guess people are forgetting that jobs are to provide a role for each group member. You work together as a group, being self-sufficient makes certain roles obsolete.

Before any more people start worrying about not being able to cross-class certain abilities, go read the list of new job abilities for BRD and WHM. Then take some time to think about how having the jobs this way is actually a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Zdenka and All,

I agree that this new Job System focuses gameplay now (i.e., not everyone can Cure, not everyone can just pop Sentinel, etc.), but my one concern so far is the seemingly arbitrary Lock Out that's happening on Cross-Class abilities.

If you look at the list of which Jobs can use which Class' abilities:

"For other class-specific actions, only actions from certain classes can be equipped by certain jobs, as per the table below:

Available Class-specific Actions

Job: Class
Paladin: Marauder/Conjurer
Monk: Lancer/Archer
Warrior: Gladiator/Pugilist
Dragoon: Pugilist/Archer
Bard: Conjurer/Thaumaturge
White Mage: Gladiator/Pugilist
Black Mage: Pugilist/Archer"

It just seems very arbitrary right now. For example, a White Mage can use Gladiator (makes some sense) and... Pugilist (huh?!).

Or a Black Mage can only use Pugilist or Archer abilities. Weird.

Many just feel arbitrary, and I know we'll eventually just learn to accept it and move on, but looking at the system for any new player just starting and in general... it just feels like an artificial Lock Out / Cap... there's nothing in the lore that informs you that a Black Mage had its "roots" in Pugilists or firing a Bow as an Archer.

I understand the reasoning for limiting Skills (to allow uniqueness) - which is GREAT! :) - but the 2 specific Classes you can draw from only seem very random for some Jobs.

We'll see how this goes (I'm still excited about the Jobs, just a bit thrown off by the randomness of certain Classes).

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Featherfoot and second wind can help mages out alot in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

lol I love how everyone is worrying about not being able to cross class certain abilities. I guess people are forgetting that jobs are to provide a role for each group member. You work together as a group, being self-sufficient makes certain roles obsolete.

Before any more people start worrying about not being able to cross-class certain abilities, go read the list of new job abilities for BRD and WHM. Then take some time to think about how having the jobs this way is actually a good thing.

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There is nothing good about a super job like Brd in the mix with the other jobs.

I bet with the class Combo, RDM will be BLM + WHM and they'll be super bad ass.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

Featherfoot and second wind can help mages out alot in a pinch.

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Hi Teknoman,

Don't get me wrong, definitely Featherfoot and Second Wind can help. ;) I was just mentioning the arbitrary feel of certain classes being chosen for certain Jobs.

For example, instead of a system where they simply Halved the number of Cross-Class Skills, but leave it open to any Class you leveled up, they're choosing specific Classes that in some cases seem random / arbitrary.

But again, I'm sure we'll all just learn them over time and just accept it as part of the Job System.

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Originally Posted by KumaAkuma

There is nothing good about a super job like Brd in the mix with the other jobs.

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please rephrase this, I do not know what you are trying to say.

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Originally Posted by neorei

I bet with the class Combo, RDM will be BLM + WHM and they'll be super bad ass.

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Hmmm... Cure/ra, Thunder/ra, Fire/ra, Blizzard/ra, Raise, Protect, Stoneskin, with specifically chosen abilities from CNJ and THM to make it not totally OP on top of RDM-exclusive ones. I'd wager the MP restoring stuff would be out of the question.

Or perhaps give it all those spells and the rest of its skills would be RDM exclusive.

Not sure if anyone has thought about it, but that Paladin heal, isn't it Magic?
50% heal + Sacred Prism? also if targeted on someone else, it heals back a portion of the PLD's HP too. If Sacred Prism'd it would 50% heal paladin + more. Sounds more OP than curaga lol. Providing it stays as Magic.

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Originally Posted by Xelsiar

Maybe DRG's Jump nullifies Hellfire's damage ^.^

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If XIV's jump works anything like FFXI's super-jump for DRG it quite possibly could.

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Originally Posted by Rau

How is a high defense class with relatively infinite MP a bad idea for a tank?

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Paladin? It's not a bad idea, but I'm assuming he's more referring to Paladin taking over as the tank.