Incoming Astra/Scholar Nerfs

When you want to nerf SCH & AST, you also need to nerf WHM

WHM isn't that bad as you think.
Lillys are more or less useless, but everything else is fine.
WHM has many good oGCDs tools

The Main Problem of OP is, that she is an underperfoming player and can't use the Jobs right. :shrug:

Its not that WHM is "bad" all on its own, because ALL healers can heal ALL content.

The problem is that there is no reason to ever use a whm over sch/ast.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Its not that WHM is "bad" all on its own, because ALL healers can heal ALL content.

The problem is that there is no reason to ever use a whm over sch/ast.

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Back when people were doing progression content and still learning savage raid fights, WHM's were in high demand. What you mean to say is for content on farm there is no reason to choose a WHM over SCH/AST. But then again there is no reason to not choose a WHM to being with.

The only thing most people care about is actually clearing the content without any wipes. The same problem with the meta can be said about choosing which DPS to bring, and as long as the DPS are pulling their weight and we beat the fight without failing the DPS check no one cares what the group composition is. It reminds me of a party finder group I had when Susanoo EX was new where we had 4 Sam's in the party, they knew the fight and we beat the DPS check and no one gave a shit about our terrible group composition.

No one is saying WHM shouldn't be reworked in the expansion, but we are getting real sick and tired of the "woe is me" victim attitude a lot of people have on these forums. Healers who actually know mechanics and do a decent amount of DPS are in very high demand. It doesn't matter what healer you play, if you know what you are doing as a healer you will have groups begging you to join their static.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

We've gone over this, WHM wasn't nerfed in SB, it's just the other jobs got buffs over time making them better in comparison. WHM just wasn't buffed enough to keep with the other healers that's all.

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Sb made 3 mistakes when it comes to whm ,drk,warrior
1st it removed a core ability and didn't replace it with anything better or worth losing it for

for white mage this ability was earthskin/stone skin w,e u want to call it. and im sorry but all the abilitys above 60 togeather does not I Say AGAIN not worth losing stoneskin.

Next. pally kept shield bash its stun and its dot...
but warrior dot,stun removed

same with drk...

SE SHOULD HAVE NEVER REMOVED ABILITYS

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Originally Posted by Ftail

But then again there is no reason to not choose a WHM to being with

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Like? Any healer worth their salt can heal anything. WHM's overhealing is just a crutch. Reasons to choose ast/sch? I don't know: adps, utility, buffs, more dps?

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

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Apart from DRK (which needs rework going forward) the other tanks are pretty much in a great place right now. WAR is an OP powerhouse, PLD (aside from since minor issues) is the perfect OT and DRK doesn't really shine until lvl 70. WAR doesn't need a dot, plus it has Low Blow (cross role) for stun. Although this isn't the thread about tanks so.....

WHM actually still has Stoneskin but it was reworked to make it become Divine Benison instead. Granted this isn't the best replacement, but having the original Stoneskin back would not fix the current problem with WHM, and that's being a pure healer. Having one utility spell isn't good enough for it to compete with SCH/AST, and that's the problem we have.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Like? Any healer worth their salt can heal anything. WHM's overhealing is just a crutch. Reasons to choose ast/sch? I don't know: adps, utility, buffs, more dps?

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Please read my entire post and critique that instead of choosing a single sentence to pull out of context.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Like? Any healer worth their salt can heal anything. WHM's overhealing is just a crutch. Reasons to choose ast/sch? I don't know: adps, utility, buffs, more dps?

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One more thing to note, the personal DPS difference between all 3 healers is the closest it's ever been since the 4.5 patch. This obviously isn't including raid buffs.

http://puu.sh/Cygh5/2431a86c87.png

Compared to patch 4.4:

http://puu.sh/CygrO/ae720aefda.png

Sure, WHM could stand to replace lilies because they are more or less useless. Instead of having raid utility like AST & SCH, WHM's bring better HPS which is like a crutch for content on farm. Like Campi stated at the top, it's not as bad as you people are making it out to be, it could be balanced a bit better, but we can expect changes come the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

One more thing to note, the personal DPS difference between all 3 healers is the closest it's ever been since the 4.5 patch. This obviously isn't including raid buffs.

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... look at those graphs then tack up to 600 dps onto SCH and up to 1k more onto AST. That's not balanced no matter what you want to say about this supposed HPS strength.

Try healing Final on WHM, Cure III is all but useless. AST not only has a stronger base heal (albeit by a small margin) but ED, Lightspeed and Synastry to help deal with mechs like HW/2. About the only time WHM really gets to shine in the entire fight is at the end since the group can finally stack but no one really sees that anymore so who cares?

Even at the lower end with groups that don't make such good use of rDPS buffs there is absolutely no argument that can be made for WHM having less pDPS and no rDPS contribution.

I agree that obviously nothing is set in stone for 5.0 yet but with SE's track record surrounding WHM/healer balance no one can realistically blame WHM mains for being worried.

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Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

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If you read my posts and others above you'll obviously find no one in conflict about wanting to rework WHM. When we say it's "not as bad as you think" we are referring to the end is nigh posts. My DPS post was just a correction to show that the imbalance lies within raid buffs not pDPS.

WHM mains whining like small children throwing a temper tantrum will not help anyone, all it does is anger people, and if being worried were all WHM mains were doing people wouldn't be so irritated at this point. I always prefer playing my WHM over AST so I'll always use it when we have 2 SCH's in the group, so I actually care about the reworks more then most healers.

I'm not saying you're specifically acting like a child, and I'm generalizing a lot of WHM posts in these forums, because things like this thread exist and it's not just OP who is doing this.

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Originally Posted by Ftail

If you read my posts and others above you'll obviously find no one in conflict about wanting to rework WHM. When we say it's "not as bad as you think" we are referring to the end is nigh posts. My DPS post was just a correction to show that the imbalance lies within raid buffs not pDPS.

WHM mains whining like small children throwing a temper tantrum will not help anyone, all it does is anger people, and if being worried were all WHM mains were doing people wouldn't be so irritated at this point. I always prefer playing my WHM over AST so I'll always use it when we have 2 SCH's in the group, so I actually care about the reworks more then most healers.

I'm not saying you're specifically acting like a child, and I'm generalizing a lot of WHM posts in these forums, because things like this thread exist and it's not just OP who is doing this.

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I don't really play WHM outside of Expert anymore since the AST QoL changes to CU and specifically the Malefic cast time reduction came through, it honestly makes AST feel more or less perfect. If it wasn't for BRD I would say AST is the best designed job in the game.

I think maybe this is becoming a bit of a mentality amongst people who main the other two healers to dismiss WHM concerns because it happens to be a simpler job. I'm not saying this is you specifically but it's something I've observed on the forums and Reddit for a long time now.

WHM has consistently been the weakest healer for 95% of the time or more since AST buffs in 3.4 - that's a solid two years and change of being last place. If WHM mains are fed up and paranoid about incoming changes... honestly how could anyone blame them? The class doesn't have to be a total dumpster fire when it's in competition with two of the best designed jobs in the game right now. Saying it's viable is fine but SCH and AST are miles ahead of just viable.

I'm not advocating for AST and SCH to be nerfed into the ground or anything, like I said I love playing AST specifically, but I'm just tired of seeing people act like WHM isn't in a bad place or hasn't been for literally years.

There's more wrong with WHM other than not having utility (though this is the main issue). It doesn't do a single thing better than the other healers, is very clunky to play, too reliant on GCD healing.

Honestly the only way you can say WHM is fine is if you've never seriously played it.

It's actually pretty hard to accurately gauge healer dps effectiveness based on percentile data, primarily because there are so many different ways that responsibility gets shared. It's really only at the higher percentiles that it actually gets competitive, and a lot of times you'll just find someone playing outrageously greedy at the expense of their co-healer. Cherry picking a random percentile (especially the 75th, although it's hard to tell if the second screenshot is even taken at the same percentile) is probably not all that useful.

Of course, it's good to know that WHM is almost as competitive as SCH and AST, prior to taking raid buffs like Balance and Chain Stratagem into account. After all, who pays attention to trivial things like raid buffs? Surely that's balanced enough. I mean, look at all those enmity reduction buffs WHM got in 4.5. What more could you ask for?

If you want to fix healer balance, there are four things that you need to do:
1) Cap barrier shields off at a max value, and have your shield total decay rapidly over time so that you actually have to think about when you want to shield.
2) Remove LB generation from shielding.
3) Tone back oGCD healing.
4) Tone back raid dps buffs on healers (or just remove them, and turn that into a dps player responsibility).

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I mean, look at all those enmity reduction buffs WHM got in 4.5. What more could you ask for?

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Patch Notes 4.5 https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0cf2b912d71121

Assize:
Recast time has been reduced from 60 to 45 seconds.
Potency has been increased from 300 to 400.
Healing potency has been increased from 300 to 400.

I mean who pays attention to stuff like having your DPS increased in a patch when you can pretend it never happened?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

There's more wrong with WHM other than not having utility (though this is the main issue). It doesn't do a single thing better than the other healers, is very clunky to play, too reliant on GCD healing.

Honestly the only way you can say WHM is fine is if you've never seriously played it.

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My suggestion from several months ago was to make Chain Strategem from SCH a roleclass skill for only WHM & SCH.

Also it does a single useless thing better then the other two healers, it's capable of pushing out a uselessly unneeded amount of HPS. Not really sure what SE was thinking. Like I stated earlier the DPS post was only to show that in my opinion the only thing WHM is missing is some sorta raid buff.

One more thing on the page before, when the person said "fine" they were also calling a core utlity of WHM "useless". You won't find a single person on this thread who doesn't see any issues with WHM.