DANCER IS A DPS?

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Everything was perfect until Dancer was announced as Ranged DPS.
I am so so so disappointed.
I hope the hammer character (or Minifillia) is our next healer for 5.0...

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wait what ... we are getting a dps was suppose to be 1 healer and 1 tank...


if its true we aren't getting a new healer I'm done playing healers same way I'm done with smn is them screwing over healers and smn....

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Originally Posted by Yuki_Kinomoto

Yeah me too, right now I'm looking for another MMO. I'm rlly feeling on the floor. This sucks.

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The sad part is FFXIV is probably one of the best MMO on the market right now. Unless of course you're in the group of people who likes playing pay to win games.

If healers are going to be given the middle finger I guess I'm going to be a tank main next expansion, I already do it a lot on the side. I was patient for one expansion under the assumption we didn't get a tank or healer in stormblood for balancing.

Though "hurray" for dealing with tank accessory issues because at this point I can't even assume they fixed that either.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

If healers are going to be given the middle finger I guess I'm going to be a tank main next expansion, I already do it a lot on the side. I was patient for one expansion under the assumption we didn't get a tank or healer in stormblood for balancing.

Though "hurray" for dealing with tank accessory issues because at this point I can't even assume they fixed that either.

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ya healing my favorite thing 2 do but I'm done with it until they stop screwing healers... ill just switch 2 dps or drk... but I'm not healing until they add a new job for healers

Really disappointing, but also kinds predictable. It's really no secret that SE is struggling hard with healers. WHM is very far behind the other two healers with no unique identifiable traits, and healing has become more about DPSing and buffs than healing. To the point that you can get away with not casting a single heal in a fight and come out fine.

Surely dancer will still have at least one or two healing abilities. Some games I’ve played that aren’t final fantasy, had dancers using stuff like “Dance of Life” and “Invigorating Dance” so surely we will get at least one healing ability along with support. Please?

When i found that dancer isnt healer I was sad. Not angry. Just sad.

Expect longer duty queues due to lack of healers compared to DPS and tank players

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Originally Posted by LeonTrifang

Surely dancer will still have at least one or two healing abilities. Some games I’ve played that aren’t final fantasy, had dancers using stuff like “Dance of Life” and “Invigorating Dance” so surely we will get at least one healing ability along with support. Please?

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if it does im not dpsing with it im just going 2 heal in dunguons with it

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

if it does im not dpsing with it im just going 2 heal in dunguons with it

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Tbh..... considering how everyone’s been reacting to the news, I have a feeling no one will fault you for it. I wouldn’t, but I don’t care how people play, that’s up to them.

Sad about this too but I'll reserve judgement on healer balance till we see the new skills for SCH/WHM/AST. I wish they would address that aspect specifically at the very least, cause they absolutely have to do so if they're going to convince people they're doing better.

I've been saying for years that SE's job team either doesn't understand or care about healing. The interest just isn't there to do a halfway decent job of it IMHO. This isn't going to get fixed until Yoshida either gets replaced or hires out of the JP community.

3.0 was a subtle notice that there was an problem with the design process for healers and 4.0 pretty much shoved those issues in everyones faces.

At least there's two positives to take away from this.

Yoshida has literally no excuse for all 3 healers be in the sort of mess that they were come 4.0 now. And if nothing else, at least the healer queues will be smaller now <3

4 years since last Healer release ... the next extansion will be in 2 years ? 6 years between 2 healer release ? WTF, how it's possible ...

Why dancer is a stupid DPS seriously. So dumb.

If we don't get a new healer, I will just switch to blackmage or dancer for the next expansion.
I really enjoy healing raids, but after playing the same 3 jobs for years I want something new :/
Maybe the hammer girl is representing the new healer job ... hope dies last ...

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Yoshida has literally no excuse for all 3 healers be in the sort of mess that they were come 4.0 now. And if nothing else, at least the healer queues will be smaller now <3

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I hesitate to put the blame on Yoshi when he's probably hardly aware of whatever issues healers face (and that's fine, one person can't do everything). But holy ship did the devs drop the ball on this one.

And no, it won't be better next expac. Not unless SE drops the "white mage is a pure healer!" vision while giving every other healer as good as if not better healing. Which they haven't said they're doing and the community reps haven't posted in this forum for approaching 2 years now so. Well.

YASSS
I'm not a huge fan of the danser and the whole time I was like "man I hope it's a dps..... Just not a healer please X_x)

Im disappointed there are no new healer, but I prefer no new healer than dancer healer x)

SE shoving dps classes at the player base whilst ignoring healers. Ok I get the message. Time to park my healers and climb aboard the pew pew train. Oh and can we have a dps meter as well just to add to the ridiculousness.

Crossing fingers that they release a new healer job sometime during patch 5.1 - 5.5 then, if not earlier...

Edit: I'd probably still main WHM, but it would still be nice to have a new healer job...

As a Range DPS main this will be fun. Hmm.. Gaia, who knows maybe just like Yugiri we can get a hints of a possible future Jobs. Gonna wonder what possible Jobs for a hammer wielder.. Geomacer, or maybe Green mage?

There is only a vanishingly small chance for a new healer job now in 5.x, unless it's another limited job.

So it becomes more a question of whether the existing jobs will really get that much work/heavy rebalancing.

I'm sure there will be some new things, but, who knows if it will be a true depature from what we're used ot.

I mean you might as well give up any hopes of a healer being in ShB now. If there was it would have absolutely been announced at fanfest. Just cross your fingers and hope that they change up the current healers enough to make up for it. WHM could use serious changes, they're running around without any identity at the moment, being very noticeably worse than the other two healers. And AST really needs it's own way of healing instead of mimicing WHM or SCH.

If they can change up and differentiate the current healers enough for this expansion I'd consider no healer a worthy sacrifice. And if things are still screwed I'm going Monk full time>.>

Hi guys keep the faith, healer is on the way I can feel it. Spent too long references a hammer and a character Gaia Just for that to be a bloody glamour. I think it’s on the way but it isn’t ready yet and needs more time to finish. When Hw launches it had a tank, ranged dps and healer. Now even thought hey said they wouldn’t do that again the market has changed and paid subscription mmo’s are not in the same place. Wait till live letter later and see if he mentions that hammer again, the hammer that’s viera wielding green mages used in final fantasy tactics 2!. What sort of healer could use a hammer that might be similar to another mmo that isn’t doing so well? Maybe a melee focused geo or similar?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I mean you might as well give up any hopes of a healer being in ShB now.

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Originally Posted by ForgottenScholar

Hi guys keep the faith, healer is on the way I can feel it.

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Hmmmmm... I see your point

My hope is that WHM or AST get a full ground up rework like Bard did to differentiate them a little, which would at least justify the exclusion of a new healer class.

But my expectation is that we're just going to get nothing because it feels like Squenix consistently give healers the shaft and fixing it is an afterthought.

I had already been playing RDM more than healing these last couple of patches, guess I'll just swap over to a DPS main full time.

Yeah, Dancer is DPS and it looks AMAZING, we know almost nothing gameplay wise, but it looks great.

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Originally Posted by ForgottenScholar

Hi guys keep the faith, healer is on the way I can feel it. Spent too long references a hammer and a character Gaia Just for that to be a bloody glamour. I think it’s on the way but it isn’t ready yet and needs more time to finish. When Hw launches it had a tank, ranged dps and healer. Now even thought hey said they wouldn’t do that again the market has changed and paid subscription mmo’s are not in the same place. Wait till live letter later and see if he mentions that hammer again, the hammer that’s viera wielding green mages used in final fantasy tactics 2!. What sort of healer could use a hammer that might be similar to another mmo that isn’t doing so well? Maybe a melee focused geo or similar?

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White Mage.... they had them since FF1.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Yeah, Dancer is DPS and it looks AMAZING, we know almost nothing gameplay wise, but it looks great.

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Oh i guess most agree on that one. Optical it looks great so far.

Posted on the General Forum Might as well post here as well

Here's why I'm pretty upset:

Healers have arguably the hardest job in the game. They have to fix everyone's mistakes, Heal people, and are expected to put out as much dps as possible. They're just as vital as tanks are.

The tanks get all the incentives in the form of mounts (unicorn withstanding)

It just seems wrong that every expansion can almost guarantee a new DPS and tanks and healers have to fight for the scraps. It is roughly 5 years since we've gotten a new healer, will be 7-9 before we are even considered again (next expansion). That hurts.

We were told in 4.0 we wouldn't get a new healer (and tank) because they had to balance what they had

And they did a terrible job of it. SCH MP rates were ridiculous (at 4.0). WHM Lilies are still to this day a joke. It just really seems like the developers have no idea on what to do with healers.

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Originally Posted by SquareEnix

Healers are hard to balance and we don't know what other playstyles to do!

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Take a look at WoW and it's 6 different types of healers. If you're netcode wasn't S#!T and could actually handle channel based heals you might be able to have a different heal style.

Rift has a Chloromancer that heals the group by doing damage.

SWTOR had a medic that shot people to heal them.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/5c...40f4a520ff.png

Where's the creativity?

Why does SE cater so much to DPS?

If it had been a Healer instead of a tank, the tanks would be reacting the exact same way the healers are now.

You know what would add insult to injury? If our queue times went up because of the new npc feature.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Take a look at WoW and it's 6 different types of healers. If you're netcode wasn't S#!T and could actually handle channel based heals you might be able to have a different heal style.

Rift has a Chloromancer that heals the group by doing damage.

SWTOR had a medic that shot people to heal them.


Where's the creativity?

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There's no need for creativity. FFXIVs heal design is dreadful, and that's because the encounter design is generally poor for healing.

Healers spend anywhere from 10-25% of a fight actually healing. But even that number is if you account for any oGCD ability as a full GCD ability.
The vast majority of outgoing healing is done by the oGCD-mp-free st and aoe heals, and hideous things like Deployment Tactics.

Unless some serious changes happen to encounter design and how damage hits the party, nothing will change about that. And if nothing changes about that, you essentially don't need a 3rd heal that heals with his 2-3 abilities, uses whatever group support he has, and then spams whatever his DPS filler is. The reality is that even if there was any creativity, it'd be wasted until the core healing gameplay changes.

Am I really the only one who's glad we aren't getting a new healer before the existing ones are properly balanced oO
Healer balance has been a hot mess for quite some time now; let them sort that out first, before you go demand the balance to be even more broken than it already is.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Am I really the only one who's glad we aren't getting a new healer before the existing ones are properly balanced oO
Healer balance has been a hot mess for quite some time now; let them sort that out first, before you go demand the balance to be even more broken than it already is.

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No, they absolutely should balance the existing healers before adding more. In fact, that's what they said they were doing.

FOR STORMBLOOD!

The frustration comes from the fact we've already gone through an expansion of "No, we're going to focus on fixing what we currently have before adding more" and two years on we're seemingly no closer to that goal and are now being told "So remember when we said we were going to balance it in StB, haha, funny story, we're actually going to do that in ShB. Thanks for your patience. Please look forward to it!"

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Am I really the only one who's glad we aren't getting a new healer before the existing ones are properly balanced oO
Healer balance has been a hot mess for quite some time now; let them sort that out first, before you go demand the balance to be even more broken than it already is.

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If you wait for the existing healers to be balanced before adding new ones, we'll never get a new healer.

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Am I really the only one who's glad we aren't getting a new healer before the existing ones are properly balanced oO

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Why people talk so much about healer balance.

SCH is fine, AST is fine and WHM is the most boring and poor healer in all univers so we don't care about it. You see it's perfect.

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Originally Posted by Ahrijlaken

Why people talk so much about healer balance.

SCH is fine, AST is fine and WHM is the most boring and poor healer in all univers so we don't care about it. You see it's perfect.

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And you needed to be an asshole about this why, exactly?

They can release 2 jobs every Expansion...if they'd release a new one Healer, 6 years with MCH/BRD, if they'd release a new one Ranged-DPS, 6 years of SCH/WHM/AST...they have choosen Ranged-DPS so...its not about "hoooo SE hate Healers" or stupid things like "Healer is the hardest job..." who cares about "hard" or "Easy"? it makes no sense.

There's a bit more of a difference between categories like "Tank" and "Healer" than there is between "Ranged DPS" and "Caster DPS". DF doesn't care one whit what flavour of DPS you are. In DF, there are two tank slots, two healer slots, and four slots for people wanting to get carried.

The only reason why 'Ranged' seems to have split off into its own category is because SE seems determined to unravel the mystery of why BRD is a mandatory pick in most raid groups. There isn't a "support" slot. There's a BRD slot. That's not a role description, it's a power balance issue.

I don't think the issue is about what kind of job Dancer is, though. The problem is that gameplay on healers could do with a bit more variety. Granted, if WHM gets a substantial enough rework to differentiate it from AST, that might be what we need. But looking from the responses, it seems like "Ranged" players don't seem overly enthused by Dancer, and Healers seem to be the ones craving a bit of diversity at the moment. It comes down to misreading (or simply not listening to) your playerbase.

Sad part is We kind of got 3 New Jobs (Gunbreaker, Dancer and Blue Mage) that's 1 Tank, 1 Ranged DPS and Well a Caster DPS that's Limited.

I’m more sad the mad. The fact that you have 3 dps jobs in a row from last to next expansion and no healer balancing since ages, there is enough feedback to look into and change the job isn’t rocket science just takes some time to test and for most healers it is t about being op. Healers need to feel fun again. Whm feels like a stone or a blm with way less mobility and fun. Every raid fight has some hard heal Check to piss you off too white hole, heartless archangel,hello world like not even clever mechanics just be at 100 % hp or wipe. For me it feels like they have something personal against healer. Healer have the most hardest job in a raid static and instead of giving them something new and exciting you make a new range dps, when mch feels like crap too. They should start fixing the jobs before and not ages later. Didn’t took them ages to make war good and sch but whm can rot. Well maybe I don’t heal anything next tier and go tank again. Will be fun to see how many static’s are looking for healer when they Form when there is no excitement playing that role anymore.

There is a simple answer here. Mch plays and feels like shit. The job is always the same timing expect if the boss goes immune or transition. You always play the same timings and with the 50 % rng that you have the chance to hit the same button over and over until it lucky procs except in your wildfire phase. And brd scales with the best star atm I game the most, I mean whoever thought crit scaling with crit as main stat whas a good idea should to penance for that idea.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

There's a bit more of a difference between categories like "Tank" and "Healer" than there is between "Ranged DPS" and "Caster DPS". DF doesn't care one whit what flavour of DPS you are. In DF, there are two tank slots, two healer slots, and four slots for people wanting to get carried.

The only reason why 'Ranged' seems to have split off into its own category is because SE seems determined to unravel the mystery of why BRD is a mandatory pick in most raid groups. There isn't a "support" slot. There's a BRD slot. That's not a role description, it's a power balance issue.

I don't think the issue is about what kind of job Dancer is, though. The problem is that gameplay on healers could do with a bit more variety. Granted, if WHM gets a substantial enough rework to differentiate it from AST, that might be what we need. But looking from the responses, it seems like "Ranged" players don't seem overly enthused by Dancer, and Healers seem to be the ones craving a bit of diversity at the moment. It comes down to misreading (or simply not listening to) your playerbase.

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This issue has be bought up a few times now. What SE seems to see is very different from what players in general seem to see.

While SE draws arbitary lines between different ranged dps players are going to demand some form of balance in numbers. A number of other MMOs I've played have a dedicated or semi-dedicated support slot. The problem is as far as can be discerned from interviews SE see ranged physical dps as support dps, which is weird given that one of those jobs has a tonne of support skills (BRD) and the other only has support skills because it shares a few useful role skills with BRD.

Either way as I've pointed out tanks have had many more balance issues this expac than healers have. So wanting to balance healers before adding a 4th seems a ridiculous statement, along with the statement of wanting to make WHM easier.

For those who think that some sort of healer change will make up for not having had a new healer job in SB or SHB, the idea that they are going to completely redesign the healers seems a bit far fetched. They are redoing the combat system so that all jobs will be changed. Healers won't be receiving any special treatment except maybe, hopefully, changing WHM silly lily mechanic and secret of the lily traits.