Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

If there's one thing I know about power, it is that it is easily abused.

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People already are abusing their power. As Tanks or Healers. "I'm not some slave!"
But you actively choose to queue as a tank or healer. You choose to be that role. You could have face-rolled as dps.

These rules are going to mostly adhere to those types of people who constantly dip or stride themselves on power-trips.
Nobody wants to deal with that.

And for those who say early pullers - the same can be said for the trains who go nuts on people who find the monster outside of it before they do and make falsifying statements claiming it was sniped. Then go on to say they will make their experience on the said server a nightmare with DEATH THREATS. Yeah those train communities I hope this goes out to them.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

◆Offensive expression
"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

・Expressions that compel a playing style

According to the rules, there isn't. If that person wants to main tank EX primals in Sword Oath, you will respect their playstyle or your ass is out the door.

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If I find their playstyle incompatable with mine, I will leave. Why should I argue and lose time and energy over that? If they didn't listen the first time, they likely won't listen the second time. If they are adamant about (as example) playing in Sword Oath during an Ex primal farm/clear and I see no progress being done I see no point why should one argue instead of simply leave and find/form another group.

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Originally Posted by Mirakumi

People already are abusing their power. As Tanks or Healers. "I'm not some slave!"
But you actively choose to queue as a tank or healer. You choose to be that role. You could have face-rolled as dps.

These rules are going to mostly adhere to those types of people who constantly dip or stride themselves on power-trips.
Nobody wants to deal with that.

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Now I think you're the one who is trolling. Deciding "I, as a human being and not a slave, who is capable of making my own decisions and who is not beholden to serving you, choose not to continue this duty any longer" is not a "power trip" nor is it "abusing power".

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

If I find their playstyle incompatable with mine, I will leave. Why should I argue and lose time and energy over that? If they didn't listen the first time, they likely won't listen the second time. If they are adamant about (as example) playing in Sword Oath during an Ex primal farm/clear and I see no progress being done I see no point why should one argue instead of simply leave and find/form another group.

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And now you can be banned for leaving so that's no longer a option

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Originally Posted by Daralii

According to the rules, there isn't. If that person wants to main tank EX primals in Sword Oath, you will respect their playstyle or your ass is out the door.

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Until their playstyle is deemed obstructive to the rest of the party's game-time and progress, which is another aspect the GMs will have to consider when judging this.
At which point I think it will matter how you asked them to switch stances.
Alternatively, have fun getting banned, basically everyone.

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If the Game Master (GM) gives an instruction based on the Terms of Use and/or other rules, failure to follow the instruction is a violation. If you are given an instruction by the GM, please follow this immediately.

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Yes Sir/Ma'am!

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

If I find their playstyle incompatable with mine, I will leave. Why should I argue and lose time and energy over that? If they didn't listen the first time, they likely won't listen the second time. If they are adamant about (as example) playing in Sword Oath during an Ex primal farm/clear and I see no progress being done I see no point why should one argue instead of simply leave and find/form another group.

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◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" means all behaviour in general that obstructs another person's game play. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play:

・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

They weren't able to get the clear because you left. Reported.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

And now you can be banned for leaving so that's no longer a option

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Why should I be banned? I excuse myself and leave. You should consider GMs are not bots, these are people there.

Well everyone we arent ppl any more we are pets and slaves 2 ppl

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

And now you can be banned for leaving so that's no longer a option

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That's wrong. Reread it:

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This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

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No one is forcing you to run things you don't want to run, with parties you don't want to run it with. That's what the deserter's penalty is in place for. What they're talking about is baiting the offline-kick by closing your game to force a DC status, or tweaking your network for the same effect. Which would still be hard but not impossible to prove, given that network issues just... exist and are a thing people deal with.

People need to calm down and actually read the thing before they get this upset over things. The fine prints is often the most important part of rules like these

First thought - well this is nice, and desperately needed. Know people who follow others around "humping" and generally harassing as much as they can outside of text since they know they're black listed. Same with the MPK.

• Obscene/indecent expressions
• Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
• Stalking
• Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission

* Expressions that lack consideration for another person
wait a sec
*Expressions that compel a playing style
um
"Nuisance behaviour" means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.

Ok what. So, we are now completely at the mercy of what a GM of the day 's opinion is?

Does anyone remember this monster thread? Remember how, after much discussion, it was basically universally decided that there needs to be a proper appeal process that is easily accessible to players?

Guess what's missing from these now vague rule changes.

We all know that anyone can get banned from the official forums for the most asinine reasons. Now, bringing that to you live, in game!

Guys, this is a mess. While some rule changes are obviously not outside the scope of what should be acceptable behaviour, A LOT of this is subjective grey matter. Just, god. Just keep to yourselves. Keep to your own FCs, run your own farm groups. Mentoring is even more of a joke since now literally humming outside of your place is bannable. Look at the examples people have given in that past thread. Multiple bannings for the same offense, bannings after people spam report after every action/post. This is going to become a game, who can get someone else banned, just like it is here and on the lodestone. I guarantee it.

Stop taking the disruption clause out of context.

If you legitimately leave the duty and take the 30 minute penalty, you're not disrupting anyone's play because a replacement can be drawn from the DF In Progress and you are taking the penalty. The disruption clause is not telling you you can't leave a duty and eat the penalty. It's telling you you can't hold the party hostage by disconnecting and forcing them to wait five minutes to kick you so that you can leave without penalty.

(You could be punished for saying offensive things before leaving the duty and eating the penalty, but that's a different violation altogether.)

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Why should I be banned? I excuse myself and leave. You should consider GMs are not bots, these are people there.

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This was mentioned in the previous page;

Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" means all behaviour in general that obstructs another person's game play. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play:

・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

Essentially I think if you leave the duty and take the penalty is still allowed because nothing should force you to partake in something you don't want to, SE can't make you play the game you know. However if the player disconnects or logs out without saying anything just to get out of the duty then that is obstruction as the party would have to Dismiss and replace that player.

Oh Billy got there before me, never mind! :)

Naoki Yoshida once stated that early pulling of hunts is allowed because he never intended for them to be shared in the first place. We choose to do so. It has always been "first come, first served." Maybe with enough demand they will change that.
I personally love the new changes. It may make tanking more popular. having "tough skin" shouldn't be a requirement to play a tank when we can just as easily not be "ass hats" to our fellow players and encourage them. When they want to learn and play, of course. I do not support people who spew attitude because they dont like being told they have to equip their soulstones or kill the faces on the platforms. lol.

I'm starting to think SE is really trying to change that game into a solo one.
With those rules, if you try to give advices to someone but that person decides he is offended by that (yes I'm looking at you "ice mage" and non singing bards) you can be banned....how are we supposed to help others to improve ?

Personnally everytime I meet a baby healer that can use some help I gladly give advices but now....I guess I'll just leave them in ignorance

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

Also my rp emote to rez ppl can get me in trouble?

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Same, considering I tend to use sound to inform others healer and "bit people leg" or "lick their face" ^^"

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Originally Posted by Rowde

◆Obstruction of play
"Obstruction of play" means all behaviour in general that obstructs another person's game play. Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of obstruction of play:

・Intentional leaving or disconnection
This means obstructing another person's game play by intentionally leaving the game or disconnecting from the server.

They weren't able to get the clear because you left. Reported.

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I think this applies more for intentional trolling than anything which you do have to prove.
Still, I think people are exaggerating and as long as one is being polite and mature, everything should be fine. You should give the new rules a chance before fall into panic. It likely won't be as bad as your imagination makes it. :)

With these vague rules they're going to lose half their player base from bans and troll reporting in a week lol

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Originally Posted by Celef

I'm starting to think SE is really trying to change that game into a solo one.
With those rules, if you try to give advices to someone but that person decides he is offended by that (yes I'm looking at you "ice mage" and non singing bards) you can be banned....how are we supposed to help others to improve ?

Personnally everytime I meet a baby healer that can use some help I gladly give advices but now....I guess I'll just leave them in ignorance



Same, considering I tend to use sound to inform others healer and "bit people leg" or "lick their face" ^^"

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I bite and drink blood and feed em my blood turning them into vampires lol 4 my rez

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Still, I think people are exaggerating and as long as one is being polite and mature, everything should be fine. You should give the new rules a chance before fall into panic. It likely won't be as bad as your imagination makes it. :)

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The scary thing is that, like every strict rule, it can be used by trolls to punish others for fun.
Can we be assured that GM will investigate every case, no matter the number to make sure their is no trolling ?

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Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.

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I know some people are seeing this as "we'll get banned at any moment for accidentally upsetting the wrong person", but I think it might be intended to cover the GM and allow them to still penalise a player who claims they didn't mean to be offensive, when they clearly did (and/or should have known better).

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

Why should I be banned? I excuse myself and leave. You should consider GMs are not bots, these are people there.

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Example:

"Hello GM, I joined a PF for an EX/Primal clear today that was eventually ruined because a Bard left after we wiped a few times. The rest of the party lost moral after that and left as well. The Bard kept trying to tell me that I should be in Shield Oath too, but from the research I've done on forums it says that MTs should be in their DPS stance as much as possible. I only had a few hours to play the game last night, and after the Bard left there wasn't enough time to form another party in the PF from scratch so I was not able to get the clear. I feel like we could have beaten it if everyone had stuck it out, but I mostly blame that Bard for first demoralizing the party by implying I should be playing differently and then for leaving the party first, which forced us to leave the duty altogether since we were now short a person and wouldn't be able to get an LB3.

Sincerely,
Sword Oath ONLY Tank"

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Originally Posted by Thamorian

Alright, new rules mean shut up, and never say anything to anyone. If you even look at someone the wrong way, you are banned!

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Typical extreme reaction. Just don't be a jerk and you'll be fine. But it is always good to keep in mind that in a situation that is instigated, it is typically the one who retaliates that gets punished. Just walk away.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

Example:

"Hello GM, I joined a PF for an EX/Primal clear today that was eventually ruined because a Bard left after we wiped a few times. The rest of the party lost moral after that and left as well. The Bard kept trying to tell me that I should be in Shield Oath too, but from the research I've done on forums it says that MTs should be in their DPS stance as much as possible. I only had a few hours to play the game last night, and after the Bard left there wasn't enough time to form another party in the PF from scratch so I was not able to get the clear. I feel like we could have beaten it if everyone had stuck it out, but I mostly blame that Bard for first demoralizing the party by implying I should be playing differently and then for leaving the party first, which forced us to leave the duty altogether since we were now short a person and wouldn't be able to get an LB3.

Sincerely,
Sword Oath ONLY Tank"

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You know they'd look at the actual chatlogs, right.

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Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools – including programs and tools that permit automated or “absentee” play – in Final Fantasy XIV. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited:

- Modifying, analysing, integrating, and/or reverse engineering game software or data.
- Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game.
- Exploiting Square Enix programming bugs or glitches.
- Automating gameplay processes.

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Good, now follow through on this SE and break parsers/fflogs

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Originally Posted by Rowde

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Yeah but GM's aren't clueless. They know how helpful the Shield Oath ability works. If anything they will agree to investigate the situation to satisfy said player. Then they will look over the other player - if other player checks out as okay then they will drop the investigation. It's not as complicated as people are making this.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

Good, now follow through on this SE and break parsers/fflogs

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Not jumping down that rabbit hole but this also does seem to outlaw modding... Which is kind of disappointing especially if it also bans the use of reshade.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I know some people are seeing this as "we'll get banned at any moment for accidentally upsetting the wrong person", but I think it might be intended to cover the GM and allow them to still penalise a player who claims they didn't mean to be offensive, when they clearly did (and/or should have known better).

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The thing is, you can't clearly establish that with a written chat where every word can be misinterpreted.

The other day I ran a roulette and found a lvl 69 bard wearing 60 blue gear. I don't really mind about stuff but I found that funny and wondered how he managed to survive that long (plus I was bored so wanted to talk) so I asked :
"xxxx Have you seen your stuff ? xD"
Clearlly implying by the "xD" that it was a joke but, without it, it could be....pretty agressive of a sentence and be misinterpreted.

Would I be banned for that if that personn did not see the joke and got offended by a sentence that I did not mean to be....mean ?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Typical extreme reaction. Just don't be a jerk and you'll be fine. But it is always good to keep in mind that in a situation that is instigated, it is typically the one who retaliates that gets punished. Just walk away.

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Im nice 2 ppl but on my past account i got report because i was dark lol even though i was nice 2 ppl so try again lol


For example if i say hail lucifer once someone gets uncomfortable me get in trouble lol

Or i rp my laylines on blm as a pentagram

Ill be nice,respectful and kind... but i will not change how i have fun with my jobs just because someone doesn't like it

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Originally Posted by Alaray

You know they'd look at the actual chatlogs, right.

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The chat logs would confirm that:

He said the Tank should be playing Shield Oath instead of Sword Oath (based on prior posts) AND that he left first.
As a result of him leaving the party had to abandon and then disbanded. Reported.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I know some people are seeing this as "we'll get banned at any moment for accidentally upsetting the wrong person", but I think it might be intended to cover the GM and allow them to still penalise a player who claims they didn't mean to be offensive, when they clearly did (and/or should have known better).

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Be that as it may, I don’t think super vague rules are a good thing. Obviously we can all see the best case scenarios for enforcing all these rules, but that doesn’t mean they will always be used that way. The people who go over reports and look into each case are fallible and human just like everyone else, and when given extremely vague guidelines for what is punishable, it would be surprising to not see inconsistent enforcement and to not see very silly and petty or straight up unprovable things punished.

Would it be insane to issue a warning to someone who zoned into a dungeon as a healer and didn’t use protect in the first 5 seconds? Absolutely. Do the incredibly vague “rules” allow for punishment to be doled out for “disrupting play” in such an instance if the GM was so inclined? Yep.

I doubt they are going to start passing out punishments like candy since with these guidelines they’d lose most of their playerbase in a matter of days, but exceedingly vague TOSs always make me uneasy.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Not jumping down that rabbit hole but this also does seem to outlaw modding... Which is kind of disappointing especially if it also bans the use of reshade.

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Since Reshade is a .DLL injector, I think it's been against the rules since the start. Things like it and ACT just don't trigger an auto-ban from the system.

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Originally Posted by Celef

You've seen people saying exit lines when they leave after the first wipe ? oO

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Frequently.

"Lrn 2play your classes, dumb***es."

"F*ing retards."

"Omg don't say farm if you're not ready" (we were listed as a learning party)

These are just some of the "quips" I've gotten as people have bailed before.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Since Reshade is a .DLL injector, I think it's been against the rules since the start. Things like it and ACT just don't trigger an auto-ban from the system.

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Reshade has been one of those "nobody's going to ban you if you don't talk about it" mods from the beginning - but if someone had logs of you saying you were using it and decided to report you, could get you a suspension, if not a ban.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion

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I interpret this as not taking into account other people's views and dismissing them as invalid. (You don't raid so your input isn't needed here, the content isn't out so don't comment on it, a new player like you wouldn't know, the game isn't designed for solo players so their experience doesn't count, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

・Expressions that compel a playing style

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So, don't tell anyone that playing a certain way isn't optional. (Always Be Casting for example.) This part is going to be hardest on Mentors because they are often the first to introduce new players to the in-game culture which includes play style conformity. Another rule stated that abuse of the kick feature is forbidden so it may not be possible to kick based on differing play styles anymore. A neutral way to instruct a player is telling them how they could be playing differently and what benefit that would bring. (Whenever there isn't much damage coming in, if you use your damage spells then we clear this dungeon noticeably quicker and you will be less bored.)

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.

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I think this one means, don't advise anyone to quit the game or tell them their participation in content or in the community isn't ever welcome. (Never do hunts, you shouldn't be raiding, no one wants to see you posting on the forums, etc.)

Some other parts imply that bypassing the penalty for leaving a duty, parser/dps talk and disrupting the game play for other players in a non-harassing way can be reported and will be looked into, but time will tell if anyone is actually going to be penalized for those reasons.

The only thing I've seen in-game that *might* be worthy of intervention is JP players kicking competent English-speaking players from raid parties for not speaking Japanese. Only the English-speaking player in question didn't run to the GMs and whine about it like a child, he just went and found another party.

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◆Offensive expression
"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion
・Expressions that compel a playing style

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No telling tank to use tank stance or mitigation, no telling DPS to use Diversion, no telling the healer to use Esuna.
Don't like it? Have a ban. Disagree with them about their "play style"? Have another.

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◆Obstruction of play
・Spamming
This means using chat (including Quick Chat and Emote) to obstruct another person's conversation, or obstruct the use of mog letters, etc., for example, by sending an excessive number of unnecessary items in mog letters, etc. Even if obstruction was not the objective of the behaviour, it may be deemed a violation if another player is actually obstructed by the behaviour.

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Lmfaooo don't send too many items in the mail! Don't use too many emotes in quick succession! Don't have a conversation with one or more people in local chat! Even if there's no intent to impede another player, if someone gets annoyed or their fee fees get hurt, you can catch a ban.

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・Obstructing transit/progress
This means obstructive behaviour such as group blocking of passages or facilities along which many players pass or obstructing another person's game play progress, for example by overlapping an important NPC deliberately for a long time.

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So every time new MSQ content drops they should just ban half the population of each server.

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◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" means the act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out, or obstructing another person's game play.

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Anyone pulling random mobs and their AOEs into the crowd forming at an NM gets righteously decimated by the Banhammer.

My favourite so far has to be this one:

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・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

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So literally anything. They could have just put this one and nothing else, it covers all the bases.

This change honestly feels completely unnecessary and sounds like a green light to ban anyone for anything and label any kind of discourse or disagreement 'toxic'. Only persistent harassment and the most egregious violations of the ToS should require GM intervention. People should be able to handle the run-of-the-mill annoying player on their own by using a modicum of common sense and discipline, not using the GMs as their own personal Hurt Feelings Hit-squad.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

The chat logs would confirm that:

He said the Tank should be playing Shield Oath instead of Sword Oath (based on prior posts) AND that he left first.
As a result of him leaving the party had to abandon and then disbanded. Reported.

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It's GM discretion is my point. The rule you're citing is more likely to be used towards the Duty Finder system, than the Party Finder system. As one's a long queue you opt in for with the understanding you might end up in an instance you don't like, while the later has it's already defined rules and if the party doesn't meet those expectations laid out or someone needs to leave due to running out of available time, they can. Especially since PF groups don't have a time limit attached to them.

The disconnection point likely has to do with people taking advantage of d/cing in order to get kicked from instances, to exploit aspects of instances, or to circumvent design intention from SE.

If someone was reported for leaving a PF, the likelihood anything would be done even under these rules is basically nil. If someone was reported for "Compelling a different playstyle" that's up to GM discretion to decide whether or not the exchange warranted it, and the note of "reasonable people" is used in the ruleset. If it was overtly rude, or laced with vulgarities, then yeah you'd get punished as per the other rules that dictate conduct with strangers they have set forth.


Kind of like if you're in a Seiry Ex Farm Party but no one understands what they're doing, or your shield oath-only tank is part of the reason the party can't beat the enrage. The likelihood a GM would action someone for leaving that instance is low, and I'd be more surprised if they actually did unless there were other variables in the chatlogs involved. And even if they did, it wouldn't be a ban. Or even a temporary suspension. Probably not even a warning. At worst it'd just be a caution, and in the most likely scenario it'd be nothing.


There's not a lot of clarity with a lot of the rules they made, such as the "unilaterally disagreeing with opinion" one, but this example you're making is a bit of a reach.

Came to the forums expecting salt.

You guys did not disappoint.

So I get the worry at SE going too far, and I'm not going to even try to predict if they will or not.

However, I find it interesting that everybody has immediately jumped to the conclusion that "free speech is dead I can no longer be myself or I'll be banned" and not thought more about situations like the ones we read about "my ex is stalking me and won't remove me from their friends list and constantly makes alts to send me rude/disturbing messages, but SE says they can't step in so all I can do is blacklist them".

I honestly believe this sort of thing at least was created more for the latter than the former. Is there room for the former? Probably. But for people who assume that's why these were put in place, I don't agree.

Boy, I can't wait to try the new Super Hard eureka dungeon content with 56 other people where we are on the chopping block for suggesting game play.

I think if ppl dont like what others say it shouldn't be reportable ppl need to learn blacklist thats what its 4