Wrongful kicking people on third boss in new Ivalice raid

About the worst thing that was going on in my parties was that peoples' gear was breaking. I just want to be able to repair gear other than my own.

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Originally Posted by Spiriel_Basanda

Not all groups are bad about it, I got lucky with my group. No salt in chat(at least not in Alliance or my group's chat), we all just treated it like a progression raid. No wipes on the first boss, two or three wipes on the second boss, something more like five or six on the third boss, and one wipe on the last boss. We cleared the raid with three minutes left on the clock. Not a single vote abandon. There were a couple leavers, but that group for the most part stuck to it until we won.

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This is why I try to always do the new fights early. It's generally a bunch of people who are willing to talk things out and point out mechanics they noticed to each other, because we're all in the same boat trying something new the first day. Sometimes we get it done, and sometimes we time out and I get to take what I learned to another group and get them past the first 2-3 fights more easily.

I cleared the raid okay the first time, but went in a second time to help a friend and one of the healers who was obviously with the tank kicked our other healer for being "afk" which I am shocked went through considering they were doing a good majority of the healing. (The healer that was with the tank was also way more undergearred, I'm talking I saw a couple 310 pieces on them)
Incredibly frustrating to see.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

A couple people grouped up throw kicks around like crazy in dungeons.

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But when you go to vote kick you have 4 choices as to why. If none of these match why you're really kicking or what the person did then you're in fact lying and abusing the system. Grouping up with 3 people and doing this makes it even worse.

Sad thing is I expect this to get really bad and I don't expect SE to do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

But when you go to vote kick you have 4 choices as to why. If none of these match why you're really kicking or what the person did then you're in fact lying and abusing the system. Grouping up with 3 people and doing this makes it even worse.

Sad thing is I expect this to get really bad and I don't expect SE to do anything about it.

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Yep. I know of people who do it for laughs, kick someone before last boss, etc.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

But when you go to vote kick you have 4 choices as to why. If none of these match why you're really kicking or what the person did then you're in fact lying and abusing the system. Grouping up with 3 people and doing this makes it even worse.

Sad thing is I expect this to get really bad and I don't expect SE to do anything about it.

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If a GM will follow up on this and asks someone why he started a kick vote the answer will be different playstyle and nothing will happen.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

So what you're saying is, you not being kicked means abuse never happens and that vote kicking a tank because they survived the longest on a dungeon boss and didn't die quick enough means they deserved it. Got it.

So WoW dungeon kick mentality has finally come to FFXIV. Great, just what we needed.

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No, what I'm saying is - in the 5+ years I've played this game - I've personally never seen anyone kicked that didn't deserve it. Are there trolls in this game? Sure, and there always will be. But they are awfully few and far between (at least the intolerable ones).

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Originally Posted by Yuiipuru

I cleared the raid okay the first time, but went in a second time to help a friend and one of the healers who was obviously with the tank kicked our other healer for being "afk" which I am shocked went through considering they were doing a good majority of the healing. (The healer that was with the tank was also way more undergearred, I'm talking I saw a couple 310 pieces on them)
Incredibly frustrating to see.

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Sadly new raid means lots of impatient players kicking and attempting to abandon after 1 or 2 wipes. With the occasional bad egg trying to kick other players to cover up their own mistakes...

If difference of playstyle is an acceptable reason to remove someone can you really say abuse happens? With a vague term like that it covers nearly anything.

While not funny for some I have been in a group where a vote for removal was initiated because the person was not a lala.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

But when you go to vote kick you have 4 choices as to why. If none of these match why you're really kicking or what the person did then you're in fact lying and abusing the system. Grouping up with 3 people and doing this makes it even worse.

Sad thing is I expect this to get really bad and I don't expect SE to do anything about it.

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No. "Differences in playstyle" is a legitimate reason to dismiss someone according to SE and that's not on the list.

I'm sure "vote abuse" does happen, but I'm also certain that people greatly exaggerate how much it happens or how big a problem it is. If a player is repeatedly being removed from various unrelated groups it's not very difficult to pinpoint the problem (hint: the problem isn't with the system). For everyone else, chalk it up to a group of jackasses and move on.

I had this happen to a friend of mine today. It was like our 3rd wipe on the third boss. Quick wipes at the beginning of the fight due to people not stacking for the duskblade circles. I think on the 3rd wipe we made it to add phase and even with most everyone alive none of the groups had the dps. Well my friend who had died several times was new and still learning and they decided to vote kick for offline.

They didnt even ask if he needed help or anything. I was like "wait no that's rude! He's not offline!" Needless to say I called them all jerks, left and blacklisted a few. I hope they are cursed never to finish that raid.

[QUOTE=whiskeybravo;4854444]Not to be captain obvious here, but casual players don't usually get up before the sun rises to run a new 24-man on patch day lol

Come to think of it... everyone in the alliance DID have The Ultimate Legend title. Ya know...healers were topping off party members, the MT had more than one HoT on him, and some healers actually rezzed the other alliances' healers. Yea... things only seen with hardcore players. That must be why I cleared. I DID log in before sunrise on patch day after all... ... ...a time only slotted for the hardcore.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Not to be captain obvious here, but casual players don't usually get up before the sun rises to run a new 24-man on patch day lol

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I mean, there are Australians (and others living in roughly the same time zone) playing on American servers, too (and I'm sure some of them are casual players). For me, servers opened at 8:30PM o:

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Not to be captain obvious here, but casual players don't usually get up before the sun rises to run a new 24-man on patch day lol

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If it's so obvious you would know that players from many different timezones often play on datacentres different to where they are located, people have mains and alts all over the game. Casual is also subjective as we don't know who is or isn't casual just because they woke up early one day to do some new stuff, they might never log in again for several weeks/months, who knows.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraLotusx

Ye people are really shity there. Its first day abd people expect perfect clears. Just report. Dont let it go.

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um, the OP didn't mention any harassment....we shouldn't be reporting people for using the Vote Kick system...

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Originally Posted by Kurando

If it's so obvious you would know that players from many different timezones often play on datacentres different to where they are located, people have mains and alts all over the game. Casual is also subjective as we don't know who is or isn't casual just because they woke up early one day to do some new stuff, they might never log in again for several weeks/months, who knows.

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Well, back when 4.4 came out I got up as soon as the servers to complete NMs and unlock savage, and it was smooth as butter. But we had to go in as a static group because some others couldn't clear in DF later that day. I'd still equate the boost in DF performance to those people who are first to log in when a new patch comes up, they are more dedicated players compared to people who casually show up when they get the time.

Wow. After reading this thread, I guess I should consider myself fortunate to have actually gotten through this raid on my first attempt last night. We wiped a few times (6 times on the third boss, iirc), but there were no kicks, no abandon votes, and other than a couple snippy comments no one got particularly salty about it.

I'm still not 100% sure on some of the mechanics (especially on Thunder God), but I'm sure I'll figure them out with some practice.

I doubt this happened as OP said.

In two runs of Orbonne so far (only one cleared, the other vote abandoned with 30ishm left on the timer at the 3rd boss)...I've seen exactly one person get kicked: a SAM that had been in the group, died enough that his gear was 100% broken...and asked us to kick him so he didn't get a debuff after seriously trying.

I had disastrous runs of that boss where my alliance had to help kill adds at 50%. If you are that terrible, you deserve the kick.

I hate to be mean but the performance I've seen from players is soooo much worse in this raid than in Ridorana Lighthouse. Even day 1 it wasn't this bad, and I'll be honest Ridorana is a lot harder than this raid so I really don't understand why things are going so badly. Like what is so hard about 3 people stand in the circles?? And yet every time I try to run this we wipe at that mechanic 5 times.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I hate to be mean but the performance I've seen from players is soooo much worse in this raid than in Ridorana Lighthouse. Even day 1 it wasn't this bad, and I'll be honest Ridorana is a lot harder than this raid so I really don't understand why things are going so badly.

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I see it the other way around. I find Ridorana to be a joke in comparison. Even day 1 my first run only had one single wipe to Yiazmat. I've done two runs of the Monastery so far and my second run was worse than the first, lasting 105 minutes. We had several wipes to the third boss mostly because alliance A was too busy bickering among themselves (stop standing in narnia, I dont heal stupid, etc etc). At least half of their party had to be replaced and surely enough we nearly killed him the very next attempt. Then we killed him on the attempt after that.

Sure there's kicking on that boss but from what I've seen it is justified, though this will not speak for all cases.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraLotusx

Ye people are really shity there. Its first day abd people expect perfect clears. Just report. Dont let it go.

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I had the luck to run it the first time with a very patient and well behaved group. Second time, people were acting like they were best but we still wiped sometimes - still, we could make it through to the end.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I hate to be mean but the performance I've seen from players is soooo much worse in this raid than in Ridorana Lighthouse. Even day 1 it wasn't this bad, and I'll be honest Ridorana is a lot harder than this raid so I really don't understand why things are going so badly. Like what is so hard about 3 people stand in the circles?? And yet every time I try to run this we wipe at that mechanic 5 times.

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Ridorana is way easier than this and it was on the same level of wipes as the new 24 man raid is. Its the same for every 24 man raid except they are as faceroll as void arc.

We didn't kick someone, but I personally named and shamed them in alliance chat after the 4th time they ran to our Dusk circle to become an unwelcome extra body.

Their party thanked me, because up til then he hadn't been "paying attention" to alliance chat.... or party chat, apparently.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

I see it the other way around. I find Ridorana to be a joke in comparison. Even day 1 my first run only had one single wipe to Yiazmat. I've done two runs of the Monastery so far and my second run was worse than the first, lasting 105 minutes. We had several wipes to the third boss mostly because alliance A was too busy bickering among themselves (stop standing in narnia, I dont heal stupid, etc etc). At least half of their party had to be replaced and surely enough we nearly killed him the very next attempt. Then we killed him on the attempt after that.

Sure there's kicking on that boss but from what I've seen it is justified, though this will not speak for all cases.

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The thing tho is that this raid isn't about skill, it's about doing what you are supposed to. All of the mechanics are easy as hell to pull off, it's just that people refuse to learn. Wipes=/=difficulty. Simply that this raid has a lot of mechanics where if you don't do it, you wipe everyone. Ridorana has a lot of personal problem solving, personal movement responsibility, personal awareness... Orbonne has? Line up marker to boss, stand in circle, avoid line aoes. And yet... people... don't... do... it.

The first time I ran it there was one kick in my party: A BRD who didn't do any mechanics despite everyone (party and alliances) telling him how to do them, and who preferred to stay dead after a wipe or when getting rezzed.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

It seems this is happening now in the new raid, I know its the first day of the raid but been seeing this alot today, heck, I JUST got kicked after joining in a group that was on the third boss, we wiped and they kicked me.

SPOILERS

Its Thunder god Cid

No instructions what I need to do, no instructions on what their placement was. Just kicked.

I think I may give this raid a few weeks before trying again cause right now, people are really making it stressful on these kicks and yelling.

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OP, look me up on Balmung. I'll run with you and bring some friends. Nobody will be kicking you.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Cid is a pretty easy and simple fight, the only things really that justifies explaining is him having 3(technically 4) different versions T.G. Holy Blade, and his Crush Armor tether...

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I think I missed something oO Why is everyone calling the thundergod "Cid"?

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Originally Posted by Zazay

I think I missed something oO Why is everyone calling the thundergod "Cid"?

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Because his "model" from the Ivalice-saga is Cidolfus Orlandeau - or Cid for short.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Cidolfus_Orlandeau

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Originally Posted by Zazay

I think I missed something oO Why is everyone calling the thundergod "Cid"?

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Because that's his name T.G.Cid, "The Thunder God" Cidolfus Orlandau from FFTactics.
He even announces his name when you enter the arena "I am Cidolfus Orlandau blah blah blah!"
Every Final Fantasy has a Cid and he was Tactics'.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Well, back when 4.4 came out I got up as soon as the servers to complete NMs and unlock savage, and it was smooth as butter. But we had to go in as a static group because some others couldn't clear in DF later that day. I'd still equate the boost in DF performance to those people who are first to log in when a new patch comes up, they are more dedicated players compared to people who casually show up when they get the time.

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Or they are people that do not work for a living and have all the time in the world to game? lol

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Because that's his name T.G.Cid, "The Thunder God" Cidolfus Orlandau from FFTactics.
He even announces his name when you enter the arena "I am Cidolfus Orlandau blah blah blah!"
Every Final Fantasy has a Cid and he was Tactics'.

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Aaah, okay good - makes sense now, thanks for your inputs XD Never knew that

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Originally Posted by Maero

Or they are people that do not work for a living and have all the time in the world to game? lol

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Or there are actually people who are living in a different timezone, work in shifts, work from home and some may even have their day off. Its funny how people always think that people are unemployed as soon as they are online in the mornings.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Or there are actually people who are living in a different timezone, work in shifts, work from home and some may even have their day off. Its funny how people always think that people are unemployed as soon as they are online in the mornings.

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Except that's not what Maero was addressing at all.
whiskeybravo said that people who log in as soon as a patch drops are dedicated, implying those who don't, aren't.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Except that's not what Maero was addressing at all.
whiskeybravo said that people who log in as soon as a patch drops are dedicated, implying those who don't, aren't.

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Oh its exactly where it belongs because it adds to what he wrote.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Oh its exactly where it belongs because it adds to what he wrote.

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...what?

/10char

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

...what?

/10char

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People are either not working for a living or are working in shifts, living in different timezones, have a day off and so on. So what is there not to understand?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Well, back when 4.4 came out I got up as soon as the servers to complete NMs and unlock savage, and it was smooth as butter. But we had to go in as a static group because some others couldn't clear in DF later that day. I'd still equate the boost in DF performance to those people who are first to log in when a new patch comes up, they are more dedicated players compared to people who casually show up when they get the time.

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Just because someone logs in sooner or later doesn't mean they are any more or less dedicated. This way of thinking is flawed at best. On patch day I will get to it when I get to it...yet I consider myself dedicated, perhaps to a fault. The first day and week of a new patch is expected to be somewhat rough in the DF. Not everyone has a high level playing skill. Some are average or below average. And while that can potentially be detrimental to group progress, it is expected to be grouped with at least one such player when so many people are trying to get things done at once.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

People are either not working for a living or are working in shifts, living in different timezones, have a day off and so on. So what is there not to understand?

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You are the one not understanding. But ok.
And just because someone logs on first does not mean they are more dedicated

If your not knowing mechanics leads to your raid getting wiped, I'm not sure how anyone can complain about being kicked. There's already guides out there. If you want to go in blind and prog without really trying to clear the raid you can form your own groups with like-minded players. The people who kicked you already know the fight and just want to get their weekly clear. It's nothing personal.