Let’s discuss Dancer

I am personally hoping for dancer to look like traditional chinese long sleeve dancers.

http://www.wulongwushi.com/u/166/2453128/.pnghttps://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kUOPO...ss-ancient.jpg

Could see this working as a mid-close range melee healer, and have seen a few MMOs do melee healer successfully. Friar in DAoC worked fairly well, several of it's melee skills had party wide heals/buffs that would go off when they were used.

Hmm, yes.

I could see bracelets of various shapes and sizes with long clothes of various colors hanging off of them, could be coiled around your arms when not fighting, and uncoiled when in combat.

Game doesn't have cloth physics so the long sleeves or long cloth be stiff as a board

I hope they make dancer not a healer, but an 'agility' tank, which is a class that is currently still lacking: A 'tank' who's not taking damage but rather dodging it and the dancer would be great for it - it's a class who could use his speed and agility moves (maybe with a skill like 'bullet time' where he's dodging all dmg for a short time) to prevent getting hit while holding the aggro by dancing in front of the boss and annoying him.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I hope they make dancer not a healer, but an 'agility' tank, which is a class that is currently still lacking: A 'tank' who's not taking damage but rather dodging it and the dancer would be great for it - it's a class who could use his speed and agility moves (maybe with a skill like 'bullet time' where he's dodging all dmg for a short time) to prevent getting hit while holding the aggro by dancing in front of the boss and annoying him.

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Haven’t devs already said that they’ll never make an evasion tank because it’s impossible to balance against mitigation tanks? Not taking damage will always be better than taking a reduced amount.

I’d like to see Dancer as a healer, but I’d want it to be a real healer and not some weird melee DPS that just so happens to heal while doing a DPS rotation. In an ideal world I always think of Dancers as using a pair of daggers as weapons, but not sure what they’d use here since that isn’t an option.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Haven’t devs already said that they’ll never make an evasion tank because it’s impossible to balance against mitigation tanks? Not taking damage will always be better than taking a reduced amount.

I’d like to see Dancer as a healer, but I’d want it to be a real healer and not some weird melee DPS that just so happens to heal while doing a DPS rotation. In an ideal world I always think of Dancers as using a pair of daggers as weapons, but not sure what they’d use here since that isn’t an option.

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Ture evasion might be impossible, but theres nothing stopping them from giving the flavour of an evasion tank while still mechanically being about mitigation.
Thats exactly what Parry is. It should negate the damage, but instead it just reduces it by 20%.
Call it glancing hits instead of being parried.

As a healer, i do think Dancer should have more of a DPS focus. Not one where healing is a passive byproduct of DPSing, but at least break the mold of having a single target attack, a dot, and an aoe. Give it a three hit rotation, whereby one of the attacks inflicts a dot, and another has a passive heal, add an ability like ASTs Synergy to deflect that heal to a party member, and there you have it. It doesnt replace the rest of the healer kit, but its an added boost and a unique take of damaging as a healer.

When I think dancer, I think of the Final Fantasy Tactics job.

How epic would it be to have a healer that is based around debuffing enemies in a meaningful way? Also EXTENDING debuffs set by other classes and themselves?
I'd totally get behind that.

I'd really love it if they scaled the healing off of an attack stat and slotted them with the Ninja gear-sets as well; assuming they are healers.

I main AST and I think it's the most perfect thing you can ever play (regardless of mechanical power, the class fantasy is the BEST of any video game I've yet to experience) so even if DNC isn't a healer or doesn't do much differently, playing it will be on the back burner anyhoo.

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Originally Posted by Merceus

When I think dancer, I think of the Final Fantasy Tactics job.

How epic would it be to have a healer that is based around debuffing enemies in a meaningful way? Also EXTENDING debuffs set by other classes and themselves?
I'd totally get behind that.

I'd really love it if they scaled the healing off of an attack stat and slotted them with the Ninja gear-sets as well; assuming they are healers.

I main AST and I think it's the most perfect thing you can ever play (regardless of mechanical power, the class fantasy is the BEST of any video game I've yet to experience) so even if DNC isn't a healer or doesn't do much differently, playing it will be on the back burner anyhoo.

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Absolutely. I hope Dancer comes with a third kind of healer paradigm. We have the HoT master, the Shield master, and the bit-of-both with buffs.
How about Dancer replaces HoTs with quick, cheap heals, shields with damage down debuffs (e.g. aoe 'targets deal 10% less damage' and single target cooldown 'target deals 50% less damage', etc.) While capitalising on party buffs, like AST but cooldown based instead of RNG.
That way, AST retains its place as a hybrid, a hybrid of three philosophies instead of two. We have HoT master, Shield master, Buff/debuff master, and bit-of-all AST.

Highlander DNCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20GkBnhQqY0

They did mention adding a "new layer of balancing", whatever that means...

I hope that new layer is what allows them to add a new tank and a healer without stepping on each other's toes too much.

I'm only out on DNC, though alot of people say its gonna be a healer. After the BLU announcements anything is possible. They might just be a TANK with the ability to buff makes for an amazing OT. Or just a melee version of RDM meaning a melee dps with party utilities.

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Originally Posted by Silverneck

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I already mentioned this on another thread, but the leaks about various things such as Tsukuyomi and Alphinaud adventures, as well as Gunblade and Blue Mage being a thing have been spot on so far, so at this point it's pretty certain that if Dancer is indeed revealed, it'll be a healer.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

They did mention adding a "new layer of balancing", whatever that means...

I hope that new layer is what allows them to add a new tank and a healer without stepping on each other's toes too much.

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For the healers, the only way to have a good balance would be to give them all shields and regens (if we are not to get rid of that system). We don't know what would be DNC's core affinity, but let go with a SCH similar kit, then they would both have strong shields and average regens, then have AST and WHM with strong regens and decent shields. Balance potencies based on raid utility / pDPS and that should go with the bulk of healer balance...

still baffles me the idea that people think dancer could be a tank
like i could understand samurai
but dancer

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Originally Posted by Duskane

still baffles me the idea that people think dancer could be a tank
like i could understand samurai
but dancer

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Well a kinky dance is worth all provokes in the world.

I still think it would make a lot of sense: getting the attention of the enemy by dancing in front of them, then enrage them even more when they can't hit you, because you're dodging all their punches with your agility.

At least it would be making more sense then being a healer.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

I still think it would make a lot of sense: getting the attention of the enemy by dancing in front of them, then enrage them even more when they can't hit you, because you're dodging all their punches with your agility.

At least it would be making more sense then being a healer.

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Except that Dancer has always has always had a magic-like effect in bestowing buffs and debuffs, and has even had dances that recover HP.
This would be no less beleivable than Astrologian or Geomancer.

Your idea of a taunting evasion tank makes it sound like a clown.

Being a good dancer requires agility, flexibility, coordination, and good reflexes, all things that go a long way in a fight as well. Plus, it looks cool and you can spin for a whirlwind-attack or to deflect stuff. There are even real martial arts like Capoeira which combines elaborate defensive movements with well-timed attacks, making it look like a (battle) dance. It's used in some fighting games or action movies as well.

It may sound like a clown to you, but healing and buffing on the other hand makes it sound like a cheerleader. Just give him two Pompoms and allow him to participate behind the blue sideline.

I played a MMO once where the dancer used a floating orb to attack. It would move around and dance with the character.

Even if Dancer SOMEHOW ended up being a tank, what would Gunblader be? Were it to be DPS, healers would be enraged and the nuclear fallout from the healer forums exploding would cover the Classes & Jobs section for at least half a year.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

Even if Dancer SOMEHOW ended up being a tank, what would Gunblader be? Were it to be DPS, healers would be enraged and the nuclear fallout from the healer forums exploding would cover the Classes & Jobs section for at least half a year.

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Gunblade is already for the DPS isnt it?

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Originally Posted by Meta-Flare

Gunblade is already for the DPS isnt it?

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Leaks say tank.

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Originally Posted by Meta-Flare

Gunblade is already for the DPS isnt it?

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Then there's also the "Trust System" that allows you to take story NPC with you to dungeons, Scions have never really had a tank so it would make sense that Thancred is converted into one, him having been a gladiator in the past and all.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

Then there's also the "Trust System" that allows you to take story NPC with you to dungeons, Scions have never really had a tank so it would make sense that Thancred is converted into one, him having been a gladiator in the past and all.

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And one of the few tanks they had... Well... Everyone knows what happened with her.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Leaks say tank.

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That is pretty disappointing tbh. I was really hoping for it to be a DPS as I still havent really fallen in love with any of the ones we have. I was hoping this would be the one. Not to mention that they did this with dark knight as well, not that I had a horse in that race, but I know a lot of people wanted it to be a DPS.

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Originally Posted by Meta-Flare

That is pretty disappointing tbh. I was really hoping for it to be a DPS as I still havent really fallen in love with any of the ones we have. I was hoping this would be the one. Not to mention that they did this with dark knight as well, not that I had a horse in that race, but I know a lot of people wanted it to be a DPS.

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Im personally torn on the issue.
On one hand i think its about time we had a new tank and healer.
On the other hand, i think gunblade and dancer are far better suited to being maiming and scouting jobs.

There aren't many jobs left that can fit into the maiming and scouting roles, but theres several jobs that could fit as a tank, like Mystic Knight.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Im personally torn on the issue.
On one hand i think its about time we had a new tank and healer.
On the other hand, i think gunblade and dancer are far better suited to being maiming and scouting jobs.

There aren't many jobs left that can fit into the maiming and scouting roles, but theres several jobs that could fit as a tank, like Mystic Knight.

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That's about the case for me, too. I think Dancer should be a Synergist, of sorts, requiring a great deal of party awareness to maximize its rDPS (far, far more so than any existing job) and contribution to group surival, but able to viably spend a fair bit of those rDPS/reHP resources on itself instead for its own moments of glory through damage or healing dealt personally.

The gunblade job, on the other hand... idk. That's not really a weapon type that's had a determined playstyle. Melee will of course be an obvious component, but melee like a Soldier would melee, like Squall would melee, like Lightning would melee/ranged, or like a guy with a big gun that happens to have more than just a bayonet included in its design? Depending, it could be better suited, aesthetically, to Maiming, Striking, or Scouting, honestly.

On that last note, I worry that they've already tucked too many MSK elements firmly up DRK's buttocks for MSK to come into its own now, especially as a similarly counteroffensive, anti-magic, MP-focused, greatsworder.

That's an crazy idea, but I think S-E should put some utility (like ReRaise, Arise or Dispel) and more mitigation to WHM (such as the PVP Protect, Shell or Reflect), and better regens to SCH to make him able to compete not against AST, but against SCH. Why?

Because the another slot should be disputed between AST and DNC. Those 2, IMHO, should be more focused on support and way less on healing/mitigation (with an nerf to their healing ability, but great buffs, to the extent that they can heal the content, but they'll most likely will have to let the buffs fall off). The idea here would be that healer 1 should be the mein healer (that will be most almost solo healing) while the other keep the buffs up.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

That's an crazy idea, but I think S-E should put some utility (like ReRaise, Arise or Dispel) and more mitigation to WHM (such as the PVP Protect, Shell or Reflect), and better regens to SCH to make him able to compete not against AST, but against SCH. Why?

Because the another slot should be disputed between AST and DNC. Those 2, IMHO, should be more focused on support and way less on healing/mitigation (with an nerf to their healing ability, but great buffs, to the extent that they can heal the content, but they'll most likely will have to let the buffs fall off). The idea here would be that healer 1 should be the mein healer (that will be most almost solo healing) while the other keep the buffs up.

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The issue I see there is that the support healers have to have enough healing to deal with all none 'high level' duties which means they have to have fairly strong healing kits to deal having two 'support healers' in 24 mans and the like which raises the risk that two support healers played at a high level would be fine for all content which would make the two meant for main healing pretty redundant.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Im personally torn on the issue.
On one hand i think its about time we had a new tank and healer.
On the other hand, i think gunblade and dancer are far better suited to being maiming and scouting jobs.

There aren't many jobs left that can fit into the maiming and scouting roles, but theres several jobs that could fit as a tank, like Mystic Knight.

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That is one I would like to see as a tank for sure. I also would like to see some original classes/jobs too. With the lore of this world I bet they could come up with some cool stuff. A magitek healer is something I have been praying for, or a chemist. I even came up with an idea for one on here. A tank could use the gunlance for a magitek tank. There could be a dual wield tank as well. A dual pistol using gunner could be a dps (Not guns like the mch have, actual pistols). Other possible dps jobs could be an actual ranger but with a crossbow, a sniper, a bishop type (Paladin style holy magic user but dps). Some other tanks could be the mystic knight, a swashbuckler pirate that use a sword and pistol (Pirates are pretty prominent), maybe onion knight, maybe a knight that uses a javelin and tower shield. Some healers could be chemist, maybe a dark mage type healer to oppose white mage like PLD and DRK, a magitek one that uses technology to heal, or maybe a psychic.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

The issue I see there is that the support healers have to have enough healing to deal with all none 'high level' duties which means they have to have fairly strong healing kits to deal having two 'support healers' in 24 mans and the like which raises the risk that two support healers played at a high level would be fine for all content which would make the two meant for main healing pretty redundant.

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Well, I think that it should work with a trade-off system. If a DNC/AST use their resources healing, it shouldn't have enough resources to buff. If a WHM use their resources buffing, he won't have enough resources to heal.

But thinking it better, to that idea work, AST should gain heavy nerfs on the sects. Aspected Benefic and Aspected Helios should lose the regen/shield effect to add a haste on allies (diurnal) or a slow to enemies (nocturnal) using some other spells, CU should have a MP cost and a much bigger cooldown and Earthly Star have its healing potency halved... To gain a sure way to apply a 20% Balance, some Haste, some Slow, a chance to apply Stop and some other tricks held by Time Mages. And I doubt S-E will ever do this to their babies.

Forget it. The idea was indeed crazy.

I’d much rather see Dancer as a fully support oriented healer rather than the standard DPS/healer hybrid. We already have three healers whose main job is to minimise minimise healing and maximise damage output. I really feel like something new is needed.

I feel like the dev team is capable of fitting that kind of job into the current setup without causing too many issues. And even in the event that it did release under/over powered, it wouldn’t be the first time a job has been released without being balanced properly lol

The problem is that "support oriented" jobs are all thought and built in regards to FFXIV main idea that each job is made to down content anyway. Having a dancer too buff oriented would almost surely steal one healer spot (like SCH currently does for other reasons).
Then you'd add Bard's buffs multpiplied by Dragoon's multiplied by Astro's, multiplied by Dancer, Synchronized with a Ninja's trick attack and there you have it. 5.0 meta.

I'm not against the idea, I'm actually craving for more addition to healer's kit (DPS or buff, or if it comes to that, fights that actually require more healing). But it needs much consideration in jobs synergies before hand. The fact that some buffs multiply (MCH / NIN vuln down, SCH BRD DRG crit up) and that some don't (AST cards, shields) makes it even more sensible.

I'd like for dancer to have a melee combo, a buff to convert some damage dealt into AoE healing, maybe a weak heal that can be used from a range, and stronger heal that you need to physically slap on people, supplemented by dashing and backstepping.

Sure it would be essentially doing the same thing as the other healers in that it will balance healing and DPS, but it'd at least go about it differently.

I dunno. Who would want a healer who needs standing next to someone for healing when you can have the same thing from the distance? Sure, you can moderate this with some flashy in-and-out-animation but it still means going right into the danger zone or running around from one end of the arena to another - just to heal two dudes and not because of mechanics - which makes him way inferior to the other healers.

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Originally Posted by manamoppet

The more I think about it, the weapon doesn't need to be any one thing. As you dance, you could trace out the rhythmic dance ribbon from the crystal microphone/dagger with "light painting", and from the sides, you could unfold the "dagger" to be a fan of light/aether. The weapon could change depending on spell and action :)

If ribbons become a thing for DNC, it would be cool if the limit break would include something like threads or many ribbons of light come down from the sky (think aerial silk).

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Originally Posted by Gralna

I am personally hoping for dancer to look like traditional chinese long sleeve dancers.

http://www.wulongwushi.com/u/166/2453128/.pnghttps://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1kUOPO...ss-ancient.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I'd like for dancer to have a melee combo, a buff to convert some damage dealt into AoE healing, maybe a weak heal that can be used from a range, and stronger heal that you need to physically slap on people, supplemented by dashing and backstepping.

Sure it would be essentially doing the same thing as the other healers in that it will balance healing and DPS, but it'd at least go about it differently.

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{Thought I had posted in an old thread about healer speculation in response to someone else but I can't find it - wasn't on dancer but a general concept about gaining power from damaging enemies that is then used to heal or buff. Darn. Will forget most of it and it had some good details/ideas for limits that made the the job a fun minigame. Oh, and for those who were thinking hybdrid, Yoshi-P said TP was going away at the Vegas Fanfest.}

My idea coincides with the above quotes. For damage you are mostly melee/near melee. You dance in and attack by drawing spells with your movement. If my WHM can run in and Holy at melee range, a DNC can jump in and do their thing. This is how you charge up the DNC job gauge. Like RDM and DRG you have a flip/jump/tumble backward ability. You can do simple basic heals at range without the gauge, but to "power-up" and do DNC-specific special moves you must fill the gauge.

These special moves can be long, medium, or short-range and can include:

- one or two special heal or mitigation techniques
- a couple of party buffs and a massive enemy debuff
- faster recharge of the job's oGCD heals

Absorbing health from enemies and redistribute it to allies constantly can get OP, so there is also a mechanic like overheating from MCH. You can ramp up and got lights out, but then you have a cool-down on the gauge. Or you can take it to the edge and back off. At lower levels, it's easier to play but at end-game it takes better management and knowledge of fights for best effect.

What particular special moves would you prefer in such a mechanic if it existed?

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

What particular special moves would you prefer in such a mechanic if it existed?

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Ran out of characters.

To give a sense of what I mean, there is a trash pull. The DNC runs to the outer edge of melee range and used Ability A - he weaves forward doing damage as the aethertrail of his weapons (sleeves, ribbons, fans) slices through anything in his path (similar to some SAM animations but he keeps moving forward. The job gauge fills some.

Now on the other side of the trash pull, a different move. The players moves forward into the middle of the pack and uses Ability B, causing the character to to twirl higher and higher with the aether ribbons (again, trailing whatever weapons) whip around him until he reaches the pinnacle of the move and slams back down stunning the mobs. The job gauge is fuller.

Sensing danger the player tumbles out of melee range with Ability C. Standing at medium range, the dancer spins once in place throwing out a slice of aether energy that hits the mob pack, though this spammable does less damage. Using some energy from the job gauge, the dancer throws out a particular strong oGCD heal to the tank as an aethertrail wraps around her, then a party-wide buff as aether-silks fall from above.

Reversing the idea

So the previous comment and above illustration is healing/buffing by doing damage. It could even be automatic, like you do some damage and it send out healing energy (again this would be regulated by the overheat mechanic).

But, this could all be reversed. You heal to damage. So those moves described above earned by filling the job gauge as you heal. The problem here is that it encourages overhealing at the start of an encounter and makes damage too dependent on healing. By having a few fun damage moves as per the story above, you unlock extra buffs and heals or other effects, but you always have your most essential stock heals and one or two stock damage abilities no matter what. Yes, having fun attack moves on the gauge instead limits their use so that DNC can't just try to be a dps, but, they can be priced too high to be spammed constantly similar to how you need Thin Air and/or Lucid Dreaming to spam Holy.

Given that they're going to use Mind for the primary stat, if they are a healer, I imagine them using something more like fans or maybe even sashes/scarves.

I also think it would be interesting to see them as some sort of channeled healer. Their dances begin instantly and they have to hold still while they danced, with their cast bar starting full and draining down. As they dance, they apply small benefits, or a small amount of rapidly ticking healing, followed by a bigger effect at the conclusion of their dance.

Idk, I can't picture a Dancer as a healer, maybe I need to think outside the box more; I'll have to look it up on the Wiki too, to see its styles in past FF games: but sadly the only memory for DNC in an FF Game I've have is from FFXI; which I found to be a fun support job.

If anything, I'd actually like it to sort of be like that; a DPS with a dagger that shares gear with Ninja.

I made a little concept of how I imaged it being, it's below on my signature. But again I'm not against it being healer or any other role to be honest, I'd just be happy to see it in the game

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

Ran out of characters.

To give a sense of what I mean, there is a trash pull. The DNC runs to the outer edge of melee range and used Ability A - he weaves forward doing damage as the aethertrail of his weapons (sleeves, ribbons, fans) slices through anything in his path (similar to some SAM animations but he keeps moving forward. The job gauge fills some.

Now on the other side of the trash pull, a different move. The players moves forward into the middle of the pack and uses Ability B, causing the character to to twirl higher and higher with the aether ribbons (again, trailing whatever weapons) whip around him until he reaches the pinnacle of the move and slams back down stunning the mobs. The job gauge is fuller.

Sensing danger the player tumbles out of melee range with Ability C. Standing at medium range, the dancer spins once in place throwing out a slice of aether energy that hits the mob pack, though this spammable does less damage. Using some energy from the job gauge, the dancer throws out a particular strong oGCD heal to the tank as an aethertrail wraps around her, then a party-wide buff as aether-silks fall from above.

Reversing the idea

So the previous comment and above illustration is healing/buffing by doing damage. It could even be automatic, like you do some damage and it send out healing energy (again this would be regulated by the overheat mechanic).

But, this could all be reversed. You heal to damage. So those moves described above earned by filling the job gauge as you heal. The problem here is that it encourages overhealing at the start of an encounter and makes damage too dependent on healing. By having a few fun damage moves as per the story above, you unlock extra buffs and heals or other effects, but you always have your most essential stock heals and one or two stock damage abilities no matter what. Yes, having fun attack moves on the gauge instead limits their use so that DNC can't just try to be a dps, but, they can be priced too high to be spammed constantly similar to how you need Thin Air and/or Lucid Dreaming to spam Holy.

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In theory your idea of this playstyle is amazing... But in practice, with bosses telegraphed attacks being such a convoluted web, I don't know, it would had to be tested a lot to see if it works under extreme situations.