Ala Mhigo Reconstruction

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Did you play the Lv60-70 machinist quests? Hilda was a major character for that story.

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I have not but now I have a reason to.

I was leaning toward leveling bard after I finish black mage, but maybe I'll level MCH instead for that.

The biggest issue (if no one's mentioned it yet) is Ala Mhigo isn't instanced like the Doman Enclave. In order to make changes to Ala Mhigo for a rebuild type of thing Square would need to make code adjustments and changes to the entire zone. Or we get an instanced portion of the city to rebuild and it can act as a proper city with a market board, retainer bells/hiring booth, leves, etc.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

The biggest issue (if no one's mentioned it yet) is Ala Mhigo isn't instanced like the Doman Enclave. In order to make changes to Ala Mhigo for a rebuild type of thing Square would need to make code adjustments and changes to the entire zone. Or we get an instanced portion of the city to rebuild and it can act as a proper city with a market board, retainer bells/hiring booth, leves, etc.

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it would be no different then just making another room in an area
its not this ground breaking code to create a new area like Doman enclave
they did it during an expansion

"talk to NPC
would you like to enter ala mhigo
[yes] "

bam you're in there

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

The biggest issue (if no one's mentioned it yet) is Ala Mhigo isn't instanced like the Doman Enclave. In order to make changes to Ala Mhigo for a rebuild type of thing Square would need to make code adjustments and changes to the entire zone. Or we get an instanced portion of the city to rebuild and it can act as a proper city with a market board, retainer bells/hiring booth, leves, etc.

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To be fair, instanced or no, there's plenty of precedence for areas that appear one way to someone who has yet to experience a questline and another to someone who's finished it (Alexander, Rhalgr's Reach, most beast tribe areas (Moogles, Namazu, etc.), Alpha's wanderings, etc. Upgrading Ala Mhigo would be no different.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Plenty needs to be done! When a country occupies another, they make changes against that countries wishes. Instead it would be a reverse construction where one repairs the lives of the people living in the already existing structures.

There’s also an issue of Garlean nobles who live in the city. How did they go on? Do we keep them as hostages, let the willing stay? Or do we send them back? There’s plenty left to cover.

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It was never really stated that there were any, to my recollection. If there were, they were likely to be military commanders and may as well be assumed dead at this point. Bear in mind, the province is a backwater as far as the Empire is concerned.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

And it's not like any other nation is beating the Empire on their own. Heck, before Gaius took advantage of the rebellion against the Mad King ala mhigo was holding off the Empire just fine.

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Was it? My understanding of the whole situation is that Gaius wanted to minimise casualties in the process of taking it over, not that he had any concerns that it'd put up too great a fight. After conquering the entirety of Ilsebard, the idea that Ala Mhigo would fend off the Empire is rather fanciful, to put it mildly. And "unity" would still leave the nation under the rule of its mad king.

Doma does indeed seem to have been pretty bad in some respects. Both it and Ala Mhigo were unruly provinces.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Aye, basically they couldn't beat the empire, were too cowardly to try and turned on an easy target to vent their anger... their own people, which is rather disgusting. Not to mention they stoned their own to death for siding with the Empire, but when you come to rally them to war, they'd rather stay submissive to the Empire.

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And, lest we forget, they sought to inflict a pretty similar fate on Gridania, as the Empire had inflicted upon them - but ultimately they were unable to do so as they were repelled by the other city states. Yes, yes, it was a while ago (80 years), but their warlike nature means they're not particularly different to the Garleans who came to rule them. So I don't understand why they think they're owed some great sympathy, particularly as the other city-states bent over backwards to accommodate them, often to their own detriment, or why I'm supposed to see the Garleans as uniquely mendacious.

That said, none of the city-states strikes me as particularly able to do much against the Empire (or even the Primals/Eikons) without the WoL (their deus ex machina) or, to a lesser extent, the Scions. The only city-state the Empire actively avoids is Sharlayan, and that is because it has formidable magic prowess and defences. I think recent spoilers in the story might also explain imperial reticence to move to that area, given that it's where the Scions originate in essence, and certain somebodies might already have their fingers in that pie. However, we'll see where its story goes.

The way it strikes me right now, is that it's a bunch of pretty zones whose denizens I'm not overly fond of. The music's good, though, especially in the Lochs.

The autumn war was 100 years ago by now or so. Generations ago. LIke, nobody with a normal human life form who was a toddler during the autumn war is still alive int he present. It seems very silly to use it an example of why ala mhigans in the present are undeserving of sympathy.

Should we hold the people of present day Ul'dah responsible for what happened to Sil'dih? Any group is going to have skeletons in the closet if you're willing to go back several generations. Yes, we see flawed and bad ala mhigans, we also see plenty of good ala mhigans.

If the Eorzean Alliance had not beaten them back then there's a good chance that the Ala Mhigans would have continued to try and conquer the rest of Eorzea. Ala Mhigan society hasn't undergone any major reform in regards to violence - its people have consistently been quick to anger and swift to make use of brutality. They worship a deity based around destruction and resort to barbaric practices such as pulling out their teeth and shaving their eyebrows to look more fearsome. Worse yet, they engaged in animal cruelty by capturing coeurls and beating them to a pulp for 'training'.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

The autumn war was 100 years ago by now or so. Generations ago. LIke, nobody with a normal human life form who was a toddler during the autumn war is still alive int he present. It seems very silly to use it an example of why ala mhigans in the present are undeserving of sympathy.

Should we hold the people of present day Ul'dah responsible for what happened to Sil'dih? Any group is going to have skeletons in the closet if you're willing to go back several generations. Yes, we see flawed and bad ala mhigans, we also see plenty of good ala mhigans.

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I've noticed this tendency to try absolve other city-states of their sins because they were committed in the past.

Strictly speaking, yes, I agree that their people, as such, are not responsible for the actions of their governments. However, Ul'dah's government today can only wash its hands of anything in Sil'dih, because Ul'dah back then utterly destroyed its sister city by zombifying it. Ishgard, meanwhile, managed to embroil itself in a thousand-year war the consequences of which could have easily spread across the globe and probably would have, given Thordan's ambitions. Ala Mhigo, had it not been thwarted, would have aggressed against Gridania and possibly other city-states. The shoe was, until recently, on the other foot. Pretty much the same fate as Garlemald's neighbours came to suffer, after they had pushed it around for a while. The only reason I think Ala Mhigo tamed its ambitions was because it was resolutely driven back by the alliance of the city-states and faced internal strife later on. Also, although I won't lump him with Ala Mhigans in general, there was Ilberd, who was willing to bring about another calamity just to realise his treasured goal of liberating Ala Mhigo.

I don't think they deserved Zenos, but I can't say I care overly much what happens to them now that they're free. It doesn't help that I enjoy neither Lyse nor Raubahn as characters and would prefer as little as possible of them. Arenvald and Fordola have the potential to interest me.

Like I said, though, putting aside NPC writing, I like the actual zone and aesthetics, so I'd not be averse to a reconstruction for it. However, unlike Doma, Ala Mhigo itself is pretty much intact, so it'd have to be areas around it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

That said, none of the city-states strikes me as particularly able to do much against the Empire (or even the Primals/Eikons) without the WoL (their deus ex machina) or, to a lesser extent, the Scions. The only city-state the Empire actively avoids is Sharlayan, and that is because it has formidable magic prowess and defences. I think recent spoilers in the story might also explain imperial reticence to move to that area, given that it's where the Scions originate in essence, and certain somebodies might already have their fingers in that pie. However, we'll see where its story goes.

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I actually think Ishgard stands the best chance against the Empire. While exhausted from a thousand year long war, those have perfectly honed military traditions and the alliance with very powerful dragons like Hraesvelgr. We've seen what kind of damage Midgardsormr can do to the Empire in the intro movie. Ishgard itself is covered with anti-air guns so I'd imagine the Empire would struggle to attack Ishgard directly, so the question being how good they'd be spearheading an attack into the Empire.

I almost wonder if the reason we haven't been able to visit the city proper outside of the dungeon yet is because something is yet to happen down the road. With recent story developments, it wouldn't surprise me if it's something big (and quite possibly nasty too). Time will tell, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

To be fair, instanced or no, there's plenty of precedence for areas that appear one way to someone who has yet to experience a questline and another to someone who's finished it (Alexander, Rhalgr's Reach, most beast tribe areas (Moogles, Namazu, etc.), Alpha's wanderings, etc. Upgrading Ala Mhigo would be no different.

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And there was no issue with the moon gates/castle/Doman reconstruction having visible changes. It’s possible to add more to Ala Mhigo.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

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This couldn’t be more wrong. There are Ala Mhigans everywhere in Eorzea. You want to punish the players too?

Secondly, there’s more to maintaining a city than just building structures. Ala Mhigan reconstruction can stay in stay in the city proper. The gate needs repair, Garlean barricades need removal, and the people need help putting order back in their city. They’ve already been confirmed to not want royalty in Ala Mhigo anymore, and seem to want a more people represented government. The people of Ala Mhigo want to do things right, and bring their country of Gyr Albania back to peace.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I've noticed this tendency to try absolve other city-states of their sins because they were committed in the past.

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Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

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Exactly. Ala Mhigo deserves fairer treatment. Though I fear for its fate based on current MSQ patches.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Wasnt that the whole point with Ishgard? That Nidhogg never let go of his grudge even though the ones that did the bad thing were not even alive anymore? And that peace was only possible because both sides forgave and started new? How long should someone be blamed for sins they never committed? I would dare to say that the big Ala Mhigan war was long enough ago. If they would start another one after getting free then you can blame them again but not for something that was probably two whole generations past. Because if you dont absolve them from them what will that mean for other recent states?

Lets hold grudges and sins forever even if that state changes, that will surely give us a peaceful world.

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Exactly.

This isn't the first time I've heard someone bring up the Autumn War as if it was something that happened as recent as 1.0.

It's been many generations. Especially in a medieval setting where people don't often have the luxury of living until they're 80. If someone wants to bring up more recent things like Ilberd, fine. Or even the riots that killed Fordola's father. But it's frustrating when people will downplay the positive things we see and go back a hundred years to dig up dirt on ala mhigo. I sure as heck dont' want people looking back 100 years into my bloodline to find things to blame me for.

Many countries have gone to war with one another long ago in the real world. Bad blood still exists to an extent in the present day, so it's strange to pretend as if the passage of time suddenly renders everything obsolete. In some cases, it is the actual culture of the invading nation that people oppose - and Ala Mhigo's culture has not changed much at all since the days of its attempted invasion of Eorzea. Ala Mhigo still values violence to a significant degree. It still worships a deity associated with destruction. Many of its people act under the belief that the world owes them something - as seen with the horrific behaviour of many of the refugees.

I also wouldn't really class Hydaelyn as a 'medieval setting'. There's certainly a lot of risks that lower life expectancy but there's many elderly NPC's to be seen throughout the game world...including combatants.

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Originally Posted by Edax

I actually think Ishgard stands the best chance against the Empire. While exhausted from a thousand year long war, those have perfectly honed military traditions and the alliance with very powerful dragons like Hraesvelgr. We've seen what kind of damage Midgardsormr can do to the Empire in the intro movie. Ishgard itself is covered with anti-air guns so I'd imagine the Empire would struggle to attack Ishgard directly, so the question being how good they'd be spearheading an attack into the Empire.

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Midgardsormr was uniquely powerful (and huge) at the time, and is much diminished now, with his original body dead at the Keeper of the Lake. And the other dragons, especially Hraesvelgr himself, want little or nothing to do with the mortal races. They can't really be counted on as allies against the Empire. Note that not a single one showed up to help liberate Ala Mhigo or Doma.

Can we have Ishgard Reconstruction leading up to Ishgard Housing? I think that would be better. One of my biggest gripe with the reconstruction is there is nothing to do in Doma other than MSQ with Lord Hein and doma reconstruction. Outside of that it is almost a useless space.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Many countries have gone to war with one another long ago in the real world. Bad blood still exists to an extent in the present day, so it's strange to pretend as if the passage of time suddenly renders everything obsolete. In some cases, it is the actual culture of the invading nation that people oppose - and Ala Mhigo's culture has not changed much at all since the days of its attempted invasion of Eorzea. Ala Mhigo still values violence to a significant degree. It still worships a deity associated with destruction. Many of its people act under the belief that the world owes them something - as seen with the horrific behaviour of many of the refugees.

I also wouldn't really class Hydaelyn as a 'medieval setting'. There's certainly a lot of risks that lower life expectancy but there's many elderly NPC's to be seen throughout the game world...including combatants.

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Just because there are people that cant let go of the past does not mean that its right. Otherwise as a German I would be responsible for what had happened decades ago too! And that is something we are not. We talk about our history and learn from it so that something like that will never happen again. The only ones that are calling us certain names are hateful people that use it as an insult. There are also some that might not get over it because the state that did a horrible thing never acknowledged what they have done or outright ignore that part of their history but that still is not the majority of our own world and kinda a seperate issue itself.

If we take the view of "its medieval setting" then shouldnt that make them right? Because as far as I know the medieval period of our time was certainly not full with harmony and peace either. But we do see with Isghard and even with Raubahns stance on Fordola that even in this fictional world ongoing grudges are bad. Thus they are not that far from our own moral view on these things. Punish those that are doing something wrong right now but stop putting the blame on people that never even lived at that time. Otherwise are certain empire will always be bad no matter how much they might change in the future. ;)

(Lets not forget that a lot of these refugees are fighting for their lives for years and have been threated badly by Uldah too. Some might just be violent but not everyone.)

I don't think it's exactly fair to say their culture hasn't changed.

We have them rejecting the old monarchy system and taking up a democratic republic system. And so far nobody but the token evil group of bestmen contesting it. We have the Fist of Rhalgr being reformed with new ideals, shying away from the 'let's kill eachother to open our chakras' thing. On top of that, there was an 80 or so year gap between the autumn war and the garlean invasion, during which time we have no evidence of ala mhigo starting conflicts. It's not like they were constantly stirring the kettle. They had a warrior culture of sorts yes but that didn't lead to constant warmongering, it lead to them exporting mercenaries.

Yes we see plenty of examples of bad ala mhigans, but what city state doesn't have villains? A lot of things done, while not justified, are the result of two decades of a harsh garlean occupation, which then only got worse under Zenos. And we have plenty of examples of good ala mhigans. Yda/Lyse, Raubahn, Minfilia, Conrad, Lyse's father, Arenvald, the miner guild leader, the elder in charge of Little Ala Mhigo, etc. It's not entirely fair to just look at the bad examples and a war from a century ago to paint them all as bad and unsympathetic.

I have a feeling the reason that minimal efforts have been placed on the city is that something bad is going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I have a feeling the reason that minimal efforts have been placed on the city is that something bad is going to happen.

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I also suspect this is the case.

Although there’s still a chance we might be let in after the “something bad”, and they just don’t want to have to make before-and-after versions of the location.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Can we have Ishgard Reconstruction leading up to Ishgard Housing? I think that would be better. One of my biggest gripe with the reconstruction is there is nothing to do in Doma other than MSQ with Lord Hein and doma reconstruction. Outside of that it is almost a useless space.

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How about we keep getting a reconstruction feature. Ala Mhigo NEEDS it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I also suspect this is the case.

Although there’s still a chance we might be let in after the “something bad”, and they just don’t want to have to make before-and-after versions of the location.

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I fear the Black Rose might have something to do with it..

May i be honest? as nice it is in doma, as much as i want it for ishgard... id rather burn ala mhigo myself... i kinda hate em, cant help xD

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I fear the Black Rose might have something to do with it..

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I expect so as well. Almost certainly someone somewhere is going to get attacked after all this setup information about it, and Ala Mhigo seems a likely target.

Maybe it’s just as well we haven’t been let in yet. You know they’d kill off whoever we’d just gotten attached to—

Oh no. Raubahn is there now. My favourite GC leader person.

Please don’t let them do that. ;__;

There's been some small rebuilding in Ala Mhigo at the Saltery, but it's just quests having us drop by once in a while, we have no real part in it. It's more like the changes in Idyllshire as patches progressed.

I'd care more if the majority of Ala Mhigan NPCs weren't jerks. Aside from Raubahn, Arenvald, the Mandervilles, and sometimes Lyse, they can all go play in the sand.

Possible 4.4 spoilers:

The end of the 4.4 MSQ did show Alphy and Shadowhunter discovering that someone is using Black Rose, which I definitely think could be used against Ala Mhigo as what could be the first large-scale test of its effects. That said, it's possible that Alphinaud could somehow get word of plans to use it in Ala Mhigo, find a way to relay a warning to the Alliance, and prevent it from causing too many casualties. Even so, I would expect that once Black Rose has done its work and cleared up, the Garleans would probably follow up with a direct assault to raze the city and finish things off with the least amount of resistance. It would be a huge loss to the Alliance after all the efforts to liberate Ala Mhigo, and could show exactly what we'll be facing going into the next expansion. Of course, I expect there's every possibility things could end up happening way differently, but it is a scenario I can see happening in any case.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I fear the Black Rose might have something to do with it..

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I fear for that too..but I really hope that nothing like this happens. Because again it would be Ala Mhigo that gets hit the most while Doma can just rebuilt in relative peace. Maybe we have an attack but the WoL can at least stop the most of it? Maybe even just have a part of the city collaps and thus we get our reconstruction of that? Heck we could just have helped rebuilding the saltery instead of having this be something like Mor Dhona that happens on their own.

In the end any attack on the city will make peace with Garlemald even harder to achieve.

My friends pointed out, the other day, that many places in Gyr Albania, especially in the Lochs, were never utilized, and it made me wonder if there are plans to revisit Ala Mhigo in a big way in the future. I admit I was excited to go to Ala Mhigo, and it's definitely not as grand as I imagined... Reconstruction would be sweet~

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Originally Posted by Brahma

My friends pointed out, the other day, that many places in Gyr Albania, especially in the Lochs, were never utilized, and it made me wonder if there are plans to revisit Ala Mhigo in a big way in the future. I admit I was excited to go to Ala Mhigo, and it's definitely not as grand as I imagined... Reconstruction would be sweet~

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You know, I've been wondering the same thing.

There is a huge potential for making players activate all these open empty zones once more... perhaps as an on-going mission for the discovery (and disassembly) of "hidden" caches of Garlemald's "gifts".

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

You know, I've been wondering the same thing.

There is a huge potential for making players activate all these open empty zones once more... perhaps as an on-going mission for the discovery (and disassembly) of "hidden" caches of Garlemald's "gifts".

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To be fair, we see this in a lot of places. The Hinterlands are as full of ruins and as abandoned, yet there's no actual reconstruction minus some tiny changes in Idyllshire. The Churning Mists are full of derelict ruins from the dragon-elezen heyday, and even though we've successfully put an end to the dragonsong war and they're learning to at least be neighbours again, nothing changes (other than the moogle area). It would be great to see improvements in all of these areas (including Ala Mhigo) but by this point I think that the XIV devs just like developing landscapes and don't want to put the effort into giving us reasons to be in it.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

To be fair, we see this in a lot of places. The Hinterlands are as full of ruins and as abandoned, yet there's no actual reconstruction minus some tiny changes in Idyllshire. The Churning Mists are full of derelict ruins from the dragon-elezen heyday, and even though we've successfully put an end to the dragonsong war and they're learning to at least be neighbours again, nothing changes (other than the moogle area). It would be great to see improvements in all of these areas (including Ala Mhigo) but by this point I think that the XIV devs just like developing landscapes and don't want to put the effort into giving us reasons to be in it.

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Indeed, and from what transpired in 4.4, I like the fact one of my favourite areas will gradually come back into reuse.

Ala Mhigo proper could definitely see a remake and the skyborne areas of the Churning Mists are literally begging for players to re-activate its spaces.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

You know, I've been wondering the same thing.

There is a huge potential for making players activate all these open empty zones once more... perhaps as an on-going mission for the discovery (and disassembly) of "hidden" caches of Garlemald's "gifts".

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Some of it may be cut content. For example the rat people were going to be a beast tribe for crafters/gatherers but SE changed their mind and went with Namazu instead.

I'm hoping for something to use more of the Lochs in 4.5 but at this point I'm not expecting anything.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Some of it may be cut content. For example the rat people were going to be a beast tribe for crafters/gatherers but SE changed their mind and went with Namazu instead.

I'm hoping for something to use more of the Lochs in 4.5 but at this point I'm not expecting anything.

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I would have LOVED to have the rat race get more prominence this time around --likely because I'm biased towards those sly Namazu, but more likely because I found the rat race thoroughly hillarious in FFXI. An example is Kakkaroon-- located in the ToAU area-- him and quite a few others made me laugh on several occasions.

And that their dialogue when it came to gil... "clinkity clink" and so on... priceless.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

I would have LOVED to have the rat race get more prominence this time around --likely because I'm biased towards those sly Namazu, but more likely because I found the rat race thoroughly hillarious in FFXI. An example is Kakkaroon-- located in the ToAU area-- him and quite a few others made me laugh on several occasions.

And that their dialogue when it came to gil... "clinkity clink" and so on... priceless.

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Maybe if all the best tribes are exterminated in Garlemald, they’ll let us have one in Eorzea.

If the next expansion is going to take us into Ilsabard, then I think Ala Mhigo will be the main hub city for 5.x.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

If the next expansion is going to take us into Ilsabard, then I think Ala Mhigo will be the main hub city for 5.x.

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I hope not.

I'm rather weary of the 'desert' aesthetic at this point...and it'd be a lot more interesting for the main city in 5.0 to be something completely different that we haven't seen before.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I hope not.

I'm rather weary of the 'desert' aesthetic at this point...and it'd be a lot more interesting for the main city in 5.0 to be something completely different that we haven't seen before.

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But it's not desert, it's salt lake.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

But it's not desert, it's salt lake.

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