Its about the Duskwight Elezen.

I do kind of worry the subject of these Elezens is further going away as more of the game progresses into Dawntrail and beyond, feel like its become a forgotten subject that really needs a resolution.

A Variant Dungeon surrounding this subject would help so much.


We were extremely lucky we got anything concerning old 1.0/2.0 Sil'Dih/Uldah with a Variant Dungeon.

Also

There was a Gelmorra Dungeon during 1.0, but we never saw it again.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Also

There was a Gelmorra Dungeon during 1.0, but we never saw it again.

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In a weird way, we actually do; that dungeon is the Mun-Tuy Cellars, and that's actually a place we can go in the South Shroud. Apparently a bunch of the caverns were collapsed in the Calamity, which is why we can't go down there anymore.

However, it should be said that as far as I can glean (only a couple 1.0 dungeons have surviving documentation and Mun-tuy isn't one of them) the dungeon was basically the same tileset as Toto-Rak, and dungeons in 1.0 didn't really have any story as we'd understand it; it was basically just an instanced open zone that you could do some quests/leves in. So if anything, we might have more info on Mun-Tuy than we did back when it was a dungeon.


I've long said that Gelmorra's a perfect opportunity for a variant dungeon, though. Variants are great for a subject that's so broad that a single focused story would be demeaning, and Gelmorra is that to a T. It'd let them touch on Duskwight discrimination, Shroud history, and the Elementals without making Gelmorra's story just one of those things.

Ignoring Duskwights is a huge mistake, imo. Deep forests and underground caves sound like a fun setting for at least a good chunk of an expansion, even. Duskwights are already basically Drow, in-universe racism and prejudice against them included - and they tend to be portrayed as evil-, why not lean into it? Make an Underdark-like area with bioluminescent plants and animals or something. Yes, I'm biased. What about it?

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Ignoring Duskwights is a huge mistake, imo. Deep forests and underground caves sound like a fun setting for at least a good chunk of an expansion, even. Duskwights are already basically Drow, in-universe racism and prejudice against them included - and they tend to be portrayed as evil-, why not lean into it? Make an Underdark-like area with bioluminescent plants and animals or something. Yes, I'm biased. What about it?

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The Underdark makes me jealous that they're not doing anything similar with Duskwights. I would love to see a cave setting, and we get glimpses of what it could be like in the Qitana Ravel, since the equivalent of those caves must run underneath the Shroud unless they were shattered by the Calamity. (That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask about the lower part of North Shroud that is such a wreck now - what was that area like pre-Calamity? Have the caves been cracked open?)

Though actually - BG3 being my only introduction to the D&D setting - while the Drow are obviously visually and basic-concept-wise the basis for Duskwights, I got a far more similar situation-vibe from the tieflings: constant discrimination and suspicion from the other races despite just being normal people with a particular appearance and history.

From what little I've seen and read so far, it seems like Drow earn the reputation that Duskwights then get mistreated for.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Though actually - BG3 being my only introduction to the D&D setting - while the Drow are obviously visually and basic-concept-wise the basis for Duskwights, I got a far more similar situation-vibe from the tieflings: constant discrimination and suspicion from the other races despite just being normal people with a particular appearance and history.

From what little I've seen and read so far, it seems like Drow earn the reputation that Duskwights then get mistreated for.

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Yeah, this was my first big negative about BG3: not only do they pile on the racist aspersions against you if you play a drow, they are factually correct to do, so because most drow are actually like that. Playing as a Seldarine, a.k.a. 'one of the good ones', didn't really wash that taste out.

The duskwight instead being a persecuted minority that aren't actually any different, but just descend from people who made a choice once upon a time, is far more compelling to me--and more importantly, less insulting.

When I was younger almost every DM I encountered outright refused to allow drow player characters on account of their perception residing somewhere between 'generic monster faction' and 'too cartoonishly evil to be conducive to storytelling" (tieflings too, for that matter). That's changed a lot recently within D&D, but the broader pop culture representation really hasn't.

I don't even consider the ancestral Duskwights whose sins the current generations are being punished for to be indefensible; I certainly wouldn't want to leave my comfy cave to answer to despotic ghosts with unknowable morals interpreted exclusively (and fallibly) by their choice of hereditary rulers and a tendency to hand down capital punishment at the crack of a nut, but they have been steadily walking back the Elementals' more extreme tendencies since ARR. Given that Gridania vs. Duskwights and Keepers is one of the few remaining cultural divisions in Eorzea, I do think it's at least distinctly possible that Gridania will extend an olive branch somewhere down the line and we'll finally get a decent glance into Duskwight culture, it's just a matter of how many more years it will take.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Yeah, this was my first big negative about BG3: not only do they pile on the racist aspersions against you if you play a drow, they are factually correct to do, so because most drow are actually like that. Playing as a Seldarine, a.k.a. 'one of the good ones', didn't really wash that taste out.

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From a conversation elsewhere about BG3, someone explained that a thing with the D&D setting is that you have very real good and evil gods, some of whom create mortal races specifically to be their people, and therefore those races actually are inherently evil and should be reviled as enemies of what is Good. It might be possible to get an individual who breaks that natural alliance to evil, but they are rare exceptions to the rule. So that's basically the polar opposite of how FFXIV has handled their worldview for the most part.

Anyway. I picked to play a tiefling because they looked cool and different, and ended up feeling offended on his behalf in the way I normally do for my Duskwight.

I only got through the first act of the game though – I dropped it partly for having lost interest, partly didn't like the pressure of social/romance interaction choices, and partly because I felt too attached to my created character that I felt responsible if bad things were going to happen to him. (Maybe I should try again with one of the story characters sometime. I assume Shadowheart is intended as a sort of ideal pick since her blocked memories make her a bit of a player stand-in?)

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Originally Posted by Vallavia

Given that Gridania vs. Duskwights and Keepers is one of the few remaining cultural divisions in Eorzea, I do think it's at least distinctly possible that Gridania will extend an olive branch somewhere down the line and we'll finally get a decent glance into Duskwight culture, it's just a matter of how many more years it will take.

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Something that I realised is a really missed opportunity is that we've got all this "races of men reaching out to the beast tribes to end old hostilities" plot in recent chapters, and yet the writers have totally overlooked the non-beast tribes that need similar reconciliation.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From a conversation elsewhere about BG3, someone explained that a thing with the D&D setting is that you have very real good and evil gods, some of whom create mortal races specifically to be their people, and therefore those races actually are inherently evil and should be reviled as enemies of what is Good. It might be possible to get an individual who breaks that natural alliance to evil, but they are rare exceptions to the rule. So that's basically the polar opposite of how FFXIV has handled their worldview for the most part.

Anyway. I picked to play a tiefling because they looked cool and different, and ended up feeling offended on his behalf in the way I normally do for my Duskwight.

I only got through the first act of the game though – I dropped it partly for having lost interest, partly didn't like the pressure of social/romance interaction choices, and partly because I felt too attached to my created character that I felt responsible if bad things were going to happen to him. (Maybe I should try again with one of the story characters sometime. I assume Shadowheart is intended as a sort of ideal pick since her blocked memories make her a bit of a player stand-in?)

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I think the dark urge is meant to be a blank slate for the most part and to be the player stand in. Drow are interesting due to yes they are meant to be a matriarchal society that's evil to the core. Yet even they have standards. There are some who get asked to be less evil as I said even they have things that go too far. Then you have the rare goodie two shoes types like Drizzt Do'Urden. Who still gets treated like crap even though many should know better.

Just going entirely into BG3 chat for a bit, Dark Urge is a weird sort of half-player avatar. You get more freedom than any of the 'full party members' like Gale and Astarion, but you have a distinct place in the world when the full player character doesn't, and dialog choices that set a very particular personality and internality. In FFXIV terms it'd be kinda like playing the entire game as 30-50 English DRK, except instead of Fray just being your occasionally-surfacing desire to be a jerk it's a desire to become a serial killer.

BG3 Likers generally suggest that Dark Urge is a perfect 'second playthrough' character, after you've played the way you naturally and can then see all the ways it differs. For the first playthrough either play as a player avatar or one of the core party members, it's up to preference.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I only got through the first act of the game though – I dropped it partly for having lost interest, partly didn't like the pressure of social/romance interaction choices, and partly because I felt too attached to my created character that I felt responsible if bad things were going to happen to him. (Maybe I should try again with one of the story characters sometime. I assume Shadowheart is intended as a sort of ideal pick since her blocked memories make her a bit of a player stand-in?)

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I dropped it a bit later than you, maybe halfway-ish into act 2, for similar reasons: the big dislike was just how incessantly horny a game it is and how forceful it becomes over trying to get you to pursue a romance (any romance, it's not picky). But outside of that it was just an 'okay-I-guess' game that constantly failed to play ball with how I was making choices in dialog, and in gameplay just never managed to be interesting.

The last thing I did was hit a puzzle dungeon. And usually I love a puzzle dungeon, but if I'm not jiving with a game's general design philosophies a puzzle dungeon will be the breaking point, it forces just big enough a sidestep in gameplay that if I'm not happy I'll jump off entirely.