HoH feedback

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

it's called a challenge for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If you change where the floor saves are in HoH/PotD, by adding more, you basically remove any difficulty.

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You're confusing punishing with challenging. If the floor saves started later, how would that change the strength or number of mobs? Allowing later starts with no pomanders would make it more difficult, not less. The reason for having to start over is content padding.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

even after all this time they still don't have a similar way of doing PotD challenge floors so why would this be made any different?

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OP is asking for a QoL change. Should SE revert the hundreds if not thousands of meaningful QoL updates the game has received because things were one way at one time?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They did this in A6S. You know, the tier practically every raider sings praise about. So...

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Did what in A6S? The overall length of the floor was about the same as any other duty. If you wipe 9 minutes into a 10 minute EX or normal trial, you have to start from scratch just the same.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That’s basically what Ultimate is. We see how well-received it is by the raiders, so I don’t think they’ll complain much. :)

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There were two complaints about UCoB: Nael's lines and the fight being a bit lengthy. Ultima was made a few minutes shorter as a result.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

...you cannot tell me savage static planning is fun, god people here are so invested in defending git gud they are getting tortured in their logic. No one likes it when you have to skip a week.

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From some of the comments, you'd think it was a common thing to leave the instance and start over if you wiped on Neo or Godka. Like anyone looking to do higher floors would decline the option to start higher than 21 if the choice was given.

Yo are people complaining about the core fundamentals of what makes a deep dungeon a deep dungeon. That's adorable.

Yeah but still it sucks having an DC while being solo and being fucked, at least just reset it... i dont see why i have to start over if i made it to like 53, just let me reset the floor or the last savepoint on 51...

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

You're confusing punishing with challenging. If the floor saves started later, how would that change the strength or number of mobs? Allowing later starts with no pomanders would make it more difficult, not less. The reason for having to start over is content padding.

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Punishing and challenging are not necessarily mutually exclusive. By allowing people to start at 61, you effectively turn the higher floors into a two hour challenge at most. Therefore, it becomes considerably less impactful if mistakes cause wipes. My group died earlier this week at floor 90. Had we been able to begin again at floor 61. I wouldn't have even cared since it takes no time whatsoever to climb back up and try again. Dropping down to floor 21, on the other hand, makes failure a far greater risk.

Starting floors 61+ with zero pomenders wouldn't mean much since you could stock up on them between 61-80. Working on my third full clear; six attempt overall, I can attest you get pomenders in abundance. Half the time, we're speeding through and ignoring them since we stocked up earlier. What the OP's proposing isn't a QoL change but a straight nerf to arguably the only somewhat challenging four man content this game offers.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Did what in A6S? The overall length of the floor was about the same as any other duty. If you wipe 9 minutes into a 10 minute EX or normal trial, you have to start from scratch just the same.

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Forced you to clear all four mini-bosses in a single, gauntlet style setup.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

There were two complaints about UCoB: Nael's lines and the fight being a bit lengthy. Ultima was made a few minutes shorter as a result.

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And there were complaints regarding PotD which HoH addressed. Furthermore, Ultima may have a shorter length but the mechanics are significantly faster and arguably move involved. So it's a wash.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Yeah but still it sucks having an DC while being solo and being fucked, at least just reset it... i dont see why i have to start over if i made it to like 53, just let me reset the floor or the last savepoint on 51...

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Unfortunately, nothing can really be done to mitigate this. If they allowed you a way to recover your file, people would exploit if their run was about to go poorly in hopes of a do over. That being said, I feel a "second chance" system; essentially letting you die once, wouldn't ruin the challenge.

I say add more floors past 100 and keep it as it is, theres my 2 cents.

Oh and thank you for giving me more things to do socially in this game other than the norm

Dunno if it has been mentioned, but it'd be nice if they made it so you cannot use another Intuition if one is already in use. When you are farming for an item it is frustrating when someone in group wastes them.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Dunno if it has been mentioned, but it'd be nice if they made it so you cannot use another Intuition if one is already in use. When you are farming for an item it is frustrating when someone in group wastes them.

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No, its mostly just been people defending content with a 5+hr clear time.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

No, its mostly just been people defending content with a 5+hr clear time.

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Haven't you been complaining how the game has no content yet now you want something that requires more than a lunch break's equivalent to take even less time.

God forbid everything doesn't roll over in twenty minutes or less...

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

No, its mostly just been people defending content with a 5+hr clear time.

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The past months you've been lamenting the lack of long lasting content in the game, this feels a bit a contraddiction to me

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Haven't you been complaining how the game has no content yet now you want something that requires more than a lunch break's equivalent to take even less time.

God forbid everything doesn't roll over in twenty minutes or less...

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There is a difference between difficult content and excessively time consuming content. I've already cleared HoH twice.... it could use to be harder actually. My issue is the amount of time it takes to go from 21-71 (which is face roll easy) just to get to the enjoyable part. The (21-71) portion of each clear is mind numbly boring and needlessly time consuming. Unless you are running with a static (which is the very reason I don't do savage) you need to run 21-99 in one sitting. I didn't start this thread change anyone's mind.... it my feedback regarding content which is otherwise fun (from 71-99)

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Originally Posted by Remedi

The past months you've been lamenting the lack of long lasting content in the game, this feels a bit a contraddiction to me

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Long lasting content in terms of reward structures. The game does little to support long term rewards. The loot bags from a RNG perspective, i guess, fall into this category. Most of those posts were around gear and itemization within FF14; six month ilv periods with no scaleable content to continually challenge oneself or provide a feeling of character progression. Regardless, the original post has nothing to do with that.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Long lasting content in terms of reward structures. The game does little to support long term rewards. The loot bags from a RNG perspective, i guess, fall into this category. Most of those posts were around gear and itemization within FF14; six month ilv periods with no scaleable content to continually challenge oneself or provide a feeling of character progression. Regardless, the original post has nothing to do with that.

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And how you have long lasting rewarding structure if everything is done in 5 minutes exactly? Because this kind of behavior has gone for far too long in my opinion and it led to the current situation.

Jeez ppl are starting to say that 99 tokens for the mounts are too much.
When do we even draw the line? I wonder....

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

No, its mostly just been people defending content with a 5+hr clear time.

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Literally. You don't have to do the whole thing in one sitting.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

And how you have long lasting rewarding structure if everything is done in 5 minutes exactly? Because this kind of behavior has gone for far too long in my opinion and it led to the current situation.

Jeez ppl are starting to say that 99 tokens for the mounts are too much.
When do we even draw the line? I wonder....

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scaleable content and item power level is one method. again... that is the the point of this thread
there is a big difference between finishing a single run in 5min and 5-6 hrs.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

scaleable content and item power level is one method. again... that is the the point of this thread
there is a big difference between finishing a single run in 5min and 5-6 hrs.

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There is not because my point is that it started with longer timeframes and now ppl are complaining about 5 hours, the next will be 5 mins.

I even used the totem for the mounts. Something that should be rare it started with a very rare drop and now it's guaranteed at 99 totem and for some ppl it's not enough.
That is the problem of the game SE caving too much to this kind of poor sighted complaint.

And frankly as other are saying you don't need to complete the tower in one setting if you can't find an evening to do it

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

scaleable content and item power level is one method. again... that is the the point of this thread
there is a big difference between finishing a single run in 5min and 5-6 hrs.

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Tf are you talking about? You don’t have to do all of the challenge floors in one sitting. Do you even know how it works? You do ten floors and can choose to continue or not. If you don’t want to continue, your progress saves for when you do. Literally what your save slots are for.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

Tf are you talking about? You don’t have to do all of the challenge floors in one sitting. Do you even know how it works? You do ten floors and can choose to continue or not. If you don’t want to continue, your progress saves for when you do. Literally what your save slots are for.

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You have to do it with the same people under the save....

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

You have to do it with the same people under the save....

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Yes. And it's not difficult to say "I can't squeeze in the last 20 floors tonight. You guys wanna pick this up tomorrow around 7pm EST or so?" "Yeah, sure. That works for me!" It's even easier if you're running with friends, which is what makes the content even more enjoyable compared to running with randoms. That doesn't make it a "static" btw. You're still just playing content with friends; only difference is you spreading it over 2 days instead of one.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Literally. You don't have to do the whole thing in one sitting.

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And people in this thread have said that. Repeatedly.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

Tf are you talking about? You don’t have to do all of the challenge floors in one sitting. Do you even know how it works? You do ten floors and can choose to continue or not. If you don’t want to continue, your progress saves for when you do. Literally what your save slots are for.

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yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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Are these actual things that have happened to you or just assumptions? I've personally had no problem ever finding a group for HoH (and PotD 200 for that matter) and my FC consists of like... 3 actual people (and no, those are not my 3 team members).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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Cross world linkshells?
Cross server Friendlist?

There are tools to use in this game

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Cross world linkshells?
Cross server Friendlist?

There are tools to use in this game

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Don't forget finding a better FC or actually trusting people. Those are things too.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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If your FC mates are that unreliable they can't schedule a couple two hour days for HoH, mayhaps you need to consider a better FC?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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Your “excuses” all have solutions that can be controlled by you:
—Advertising? There are a myriad of avenues outside of /shout—FC, LS, and PF are three of them. Just because people aren’t /shouting to do the content doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it. Discord is also an option—I know people have made successful Diadem and Rival Wings revival Discords. Why not make a PotD/HoH discord then?
—Don’t want to find people on other servers? Find them on yours.
—Don’t have people on your server that are your friends? Make some.
—Don’t have people on your friend’s list that are reliable? Find more reliable friends.
—Don’t have people in your FC that are reliable? Recruit outside of it, or find a better FC.

Again, with the time thing:
—Don’t wanna do it all in one day? Set aside a weekend for it; spread the run over 2 days, or 3 if you really want to. That’s not the same as running a static, since statics are something that does content on a repeated/weekly basis.
—Don’t wanna split it up? Well, it’s 5 hours at the most, so set aside a Saturday afternoon for it.
And I can’t really accept having children as an excuse to not do either of these, in response to your last comment to me; I’ve known gaming parents that have managed to raid Savage and Ultimate and still take care of their family while maintaining full-time jobs. I’ve known full-time college students that still maintain their studies while playing as well (I am one of them). Learn to manage your time better.

These are all just excuses. Others have found ways around them, or found ways to do both PotD 200 and HoH 100 runs. If they can do it, why can’t you? Or is it just because you don’t want to have to do it? The time we’ve spent responding to one another, and the time you’ve spent on the forums complaining about how you can’t get this done, is time that you could have spent to try and get this done.

lol wat? Potd 50~200 require 7+ hours, HoH only needs 4.5 now. Sure everything should just get handle to you in a silver plant I guess~

Ugh I really wish Heaven On High let you enter at level 60. I want to do the new content, not have to go back and get 1 level in every level 60 job first. This seems like poor design. The crafting beast tribes don't make me level my crafters up a level first.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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I was able to do it via a person on another server. We had 1 person on Odin, rest of us on Louisoix. I have 2 of the members added, but not the 3rd (the one on Odin, one of the Lousioix peeps does have them though, but they don't have the other Louisoix team member on their friends). We are still able to co-ordinate it. And we aren't even properly set up to co-ordinate it as effectively as we could have. Also, one of our members is Finnish, another is American, the 3rd (me) is British, and I'm not sure where the Odin person is from, so that's ANOTHER thing to take into account too.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Ugh I really wish Heaven On High let you enter at level 60. I want to do the new content, not have to go back and get 1 level in every level 60 job first. This seems like poor design. The crafting beast tribes don't make me level my crafters up a level first.

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I agree, make it level 61 to unlock at first sure, but then enter at level 60. I mean look at POTD. Level 17 to first unlock, but then you can enter at level 1 afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Here's something annoying that happened to me today-- we were in the 60s, got a bad pull and I dropped (I was tank)... RDM raises me as the others die, I get up, prepare to pop a magicite-- and it says Duty Failed, despite the fact that I was up.

It should not fail you as long as someone is raising. That's just garbage.

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That is server delay, to the servers, you where dead still, effects everything in the game.

So my group got its Floor 100 clear today, after a couple of unlucky attempts. I still think half of the loot is really dumb, like orchestrion rolls that frequently drops from older dungeons that people still run... even on Platinum Hoards.

That said, I got the HoH Miniature, and pulled it out without putting it down (thus binding it). The thing's huge! My only question is if we can climb up it, but that would require actually putting it down and binding it. It's as wide as a house's doorway, and as tall as my individual cottage that I own. Does anyone else have this and know if it can be climbed along the outside jenga pieces?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

yeah, you just need to get three other people on different servers that you don't know to log on at the same time again, and to keep the save as opposed to erasing it because they want to grind it and the other save is their solo. Or if you are luckier, three members of your fc to do so. Heck, just trying to get fc mates to do something can be a trip.

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No excuse. Many other people have found ways to do it. Like I said, if you don’t wanna put forth the effort or invest in the time, you obviously didn’t want to run it that badly. It’s not hard to coordinate time with my friends. I don’t get to see my best friend anymore due to us being busy, but we make time for each other whenever we can. Same thing. You want something, you make time for it. Period.

ANOTHER example. My old static mate works and goes to school. Has made the comment “I feel like I go to work the school just to come home and sleep” however still is able to squeeze in game time. Why? Because he simply wants to and therefore puts in the effort to make time. You don’t have to sit at your computer for hours on end to accomplish what you want to.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

You have to do it with the same people under the save....

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Again, not hard to shoot the other 3 a message asking when they would like to continue. Or shoot just go about your normal business and if you see them all online, ask if they want to go back in. It’s not hard. You are literally holding yourself back, because why? What? Can’t be bothered to put forth effort? Plenty of others have put on their big boy/girl pants to run the content they want to do. Choosing not to and complaining about running it/not running it is just pure laziness.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I've already cleared HoH

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I'd bet those arguing for no changes haven't really done it. Forget being in a party - even solo is a joke up to 60, but Yoshi-P said the challenging floors start at 30, so you must be making stuff up.

Next EX trial: After every wipe, you need to run a dungeon.

If they add the option to start later and you didn't want to use it, you wouldn't have to. This isn't PVP and there isn't a race. Isn't it a bit much to ask tens of thousands of people to spend hours upon hours doing faceroll content just to do the interesting stuff so...actually, I don't even know why anyone is in favor of it.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

I'd bet those arguing for no changes haven't really done it.

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Cleared it twice already, with a third save file going. Still don’t think anything needs to be changed with regards to the floor set-up. I think people should stop asking for changes just because they want everything to be done in 15 minutes or less, personally.

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

-snip-

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Lucky! All I ended up with after my run to 100 was one sack that held a Strength Materia VI. lol. My friend got the Jenga Tower though and YES you can climb up it to the top.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

I'd bet those arguing for no changes haven't really done it. Forget being in a party - even solo is a joke up to 60, but Yoshi-P said the challenging floors start at 30, so you must be making stuff up.

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I've cleared it. As well as PotD 200. It's fine as it is. One of my teammates is only off one day a week and falls asleep early while another is Swedish and wakes up at 1 am to do it with us. If we can do it, so can you.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

If they add the option to start later and you didn't want to use it, you wouldn't have to.

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Exactly. I see many similarities between this and the no-fly argument (in WoW, but it has spilled here too). If you want to walk and take the long route, go ahead. But I don't see any legitimate reason to be against a faster or more convenient option for others to get where they want to be.

Most arguments against convenience just boil down to "it's possible to do without this feature so just put up with how things are now". That same argument (appeal to tradition fallacy) can be used against cross realm groups, the duty finder, the raid finder and even the party finder. "If you can't work something out with friends or shout in cities to get a group for a dungeon and can't find the time to walk to the dungeon entrance, you're not even trying." Sounds pretty silly in another context.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

I have an idea. Let's start from floor 99 so everyone is happy RIGHT? /s

I really despise this kind of attitude, they already made so many concessions on this content and STILL ppl complains, to the point it'll be made A JOKE and then ppl wil complain that the content is a joke too.

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Maybe intead of hyperbole lets look at alternatives that still make it a challenge but still help...like 50/50. I ran 1-30 yesterday with an ingame friend (her first time) and she was pissed that its only 30 floors for casuals and that it also only 100 completely. If they had splitted the content at least in half and gave every side 50 floors it would feel less bad. (Especially since this game has more casual players than hardcore ones) Any boss after 50 in PotD felt harder than any boss up to 80. So why not include at least 20 more floors for the rest of the casual playerbase and let the others start at 51? If they then increased the difficulty after that it would be way better..because its still a breeze until at least 70 and the real hardcore part only starts at 81 anyway.

So no its already mostly a joke anyway. And yet if you want to go to the harder ones you still have to go through 21-30 and all the kinda useless ones between that and at least 60..

You said it well this game has far more casual content than hardcore one, we don't need to cry out for any non casual content added to the game.
As I have shown you have the tools to do it, use them

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Originally Posted by Reinha

But I don't see any legitimate reason to be against a faster or more convenient option for others to get where they want to be.

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Sure, I have one for you. THAT'S NOT HOW THE CONTENT WAS DESIGNED, suck it up and either set the time aside or don't do it at all. ITS THAT SIMPLE!!! Stop sitting here begging for something that is already trivial, to be made even more trivial because .. "you don't wanna"

you people wont be happy until this is a mobile game.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Maybe intead of hyperbole lets look at alternatives that still make it a challenge but still help...like 50/50. I ran 1-30 yesterday with an ingame friend (her first time) and she was pissed that its only 30 floors for casuals and that it also only 100 completely.

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There are no alternatives. Why should there be? This IS casual content!! Just because you (or your friend) don't want to set the time aside doesn't suddenly change that. You don't even need to do it all in one go I mean jeebus.

The only real change I'd make would be to reward a sack or two when you beat a boss (equal to whatever you get on those floors). People want to feel rewarded when they clear bosses.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

The only real change I'd make would be to reward a sack or two when you beat a boss (equal to whatever you get on those floors). People want to feel rewarded when they clear bosses.

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i have to agree with this one was unlucky though 70 to 80 with 0 hordes spawned (we found a pod on floor 85 and there was no horde at all) a single sack when beating boss 80 would be nice, since you don't even get a potsherd (and before anyone tries to hyperbole and say "why not give people the dodo " we get a potsherd as a reward for floor 30 the easiest boss honestly so why not get a little something for the harder bosses, not for every boss but staple bosses, 50 70 and 90, since those are proper checkpoints.

i am glad for HoH, because 50/60 roulette fill for DPS really quick :D but hunts are miserable :( , i think Eureka will be dead for next weeks before next patch